Please realize that I am not trying to be legalistic, but I am looking for others opinions.

Do you think one should tithe on gross income or net?

For you preachers... do you tithe on your complete salary package? This includes housing allowance, health insurance, pension, etc... remember these can add up to possibly more than your take home pay.

Should the person working a job tithe on fringe benefits received?

What about the person who operates a business (I have been asked this many times)... should they tithe on their gross income? Many businesses dont even net 10%.

Again, Im not trying to be legalistic... I believe God looks at the heart... yet we want to please Him... and as a preacher I want to be able to answer people properly:)

What do you think?

-- Anonymous, August 15, 2000

Answers

Michael Demastus.....

The Sabbath, Circumcision, and Passover also "pre-date" the Law.

What is your basis for mainting the Law of tithing, yet throwing out these others that "pre-date" the Law??

-- Anonymous, August 18, 2000

One more question Michael.....

Previous to the Law....where is the "command" from God to tithe??

Quite unlike the Sabbath.....Circumcision....and the Passover (where there are direct commands)....we see no such command previous to the Law.

I wondered the same thing myself many times....."Why did Abraham give Mechizekek 10%?....or why did Jacob pledge God 10%?"

Found out why. It appears to have been an ancient historical custom to give royalty an offering of 10%.

Thus we see Abraham giving a tithe to Melchizek, not because he was a priest of Yahweh.......but....because he was the KING of Salem.

But again I ask....where is the command to tithe previous to the Law....that would resemble the Sabbath, Circumcision, or Passover....all of which pre-date the Law??

-- Anonymous, August 18, 2000

I heard there was a preacher who was preaching that people should give their first paycheck to the church after they got a new job. Pretty rough on those unemployed for a long time, wouldn't you think?

What if someone started preaching that we should donate to the church a strong young animal from our flocks whenever we have a firstborn child in order to redeam the firstborn.

There are Laws in the Old Testament about redeaming the firstborn, paying tithes, and firstfruits offerings. Of course we as Christians are not under the Law. There were many laws that were not given out to the nations in the first place. They were given to the nation of Israel as a part of God's covenant with them.

Yet many preachers preach these things as Law. The tithe laws were a part of the Law of Moses. Acts 15 shows us that he apostles and elders perceived that the Holy Ghost did not want to put the wieght of the Law on the Gentiles who believed. Yet many preachers want to do that with preaching on tithes.

If we study the tithe laws in the OT, we see that these laws were not laws about paying tithes to the 'pulpit minister' or the church organization. They were about the Jews paying tithes into the Jewish religiou system.

There was an anual tithe. Jews were to EAT and DRINK ten percent of their increase in 'the place the LORD your God shall choose.' Later the temple was built in Jerusalem. If an Israeli lived far from the temple, he could save up his money and then go to the place and spend it on food and drink there.

There was a tithe every three year collected within cities and given to the Levites, widows, fatherless, etc.

There was a tithe given to certain priests from within the sacrificial system as well.

So why should we think that these Laws are commandments to us to pay tithes? Wasn't the book fo Malachi, with it's famous tithe verses, dealing with people who were not being obedient to the covenant made with Israel.

Abraham and Jacob also paid tithes. Of course, they were circumcised and offered animal sacrifices as well. They seemed to have done so voluntarily. In Abraham's case, we do not know that this was an ongoing practice.

It is good for God's people to be generous. But Paul teaches us that those who give should give willfully, not under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. Jesus' parables are full of instructions about giving.

Jesus does tell the Pharisees that they were right to pay tithes of mint, anise, and cummin, but wrong to neglect the weightier matters of th Law. Of course, this was written to men under the command to obey the Law about tithing.

If we consider the way the very first believers lived- they were Jews involved in the temple system. Even many priests came to the Lord in Jerusalem. They probably offered sacrifices, and many other things. Yet they were justified by faith in Jesus Christ. These Jews, zealous according to the Law, probably paid tithes to the religious system of Israel. So tithing and supporting the needs of the church were two different issues. One was a commandment of the Law, and the other is something that Christians who love the Lord and have th emeans should do out of love.

Yet, they also gave to support widows and whoever had need. Some preachers preach that you give 10% and keep 90%- what a great deal! But Jesus did not teach that. His teachings on giving are not limited to 10%. If someone gives 10% and thinks that he has not more responsibility in regard to finances, he should reading the teachings of Jesus.

On the other hand, some preachers preach tithing as a Law. Many poor widows received support from the church. The church in Jerusalem also gave to those among them who have needs. Now, poor widows and others often hear preaching from preachers that they should pay tithes, as if it were a matter of Law. Instead of receiving support, they get milked for money. It is a blessed thing when the poor widow gives her two mites, but it is a terrible thing when someone tries to milk her of her two mites using guilt. I realize a lot of preachers do this sincerely, but are sincerely wrong.

Money in the early church went to widows and other needy peole. Apostels also received support. Now in many churches, money goes to pay for the big fancy building and for church staff, and sometimes little goes to help those among us in need.

Just some things to think about.

-- Anonymous, August 16, 2000

I heard there was a preacher who was preaching that people should give their first paycheck to the church after they got a new job. Pretty rough on those unemployed for a long time, wouldn't you think?

What if someone started preaching that we should donate to the church a strong young animal from our flocks whenever we have a firstborn child in order to redeam the firstborn.

There are Laws in the Old Testament about redeaming the firstborn, paying tithes, and firstfruits offerings. Of course we as Christians are not under the Law. There were many laws that were not given out to the nations in the first place. They were given to the nation of Israel as a part of God's covenant with them.

Yet many preachers preach these things as Law. The tithe laws were a part of the Law of Moses. Acts 15 shows us that he apostles and elders perceived that the Holy Ghost did not want to put the wieght of the Law on the Gentiles who believed. Yet many preachers want to do that with preaching on tithes.

If we study the tithe laws in the OT, we see that these laws were not laws about paying tithes to the 'pulpit minister' or the church organization. They were about the Jews paying tithes into the Jewish religiou system.

There was an anual tithe. Jews were to EAT and DRINK ten percent of their increase in 'the place the LORD your God shall choose.' Later the temple was built in Jerusalem. If an Israeli lived far from the temple, he could save up his money and then go to the place and spend it on food and drink there.

There was a tithe every three year collected within cities and given to the Levites, widows, fatherless, etc.

There was a tithe given to certain priests from within the sacrificial system as well.

So why should we think that these Laws are commandments to us to pay tithes? Wasn't the book fo Malachi, with it's famous tithe verses, dealing with people who were not being obedient to the covenant made with Israel.

Abraham and Jacob also paid tithes. Of course, they were circumcised and offered animal sacrifices as well. They seemed to have done so voluntarily. In Abraham's case, we do not know that this was an ongoing practice.

It is good for God's people to be generous. But Paul teaches us that those who give should give willfully, not under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. Jesus' parables are full of instructions about giving.

Jesus does tell the Pharisees that they were right to pay tithes of mint, anise, and cummin, but wrong to neglect the weightier matters of th Law. Of course, this was written to men under the command to obey the Law about tithing.

If we consider the way the very first believers lived- they were Jews involved in the temple system. Even many priests came to the Lord in Jerusalem. They probably offered sacrifices, and many other things. Yet they were justified by faith in Jesus Christ. These Jews, zealous according to the Law, probably paid tithes to the religious system of Israel. So tithing and supporting the needs of the church were two different issues. One was a commandment of the Law, and the other is something that Christians who love the Lord and have th emeans should do out of love.

Yet, they also gave to support widows and whoever had need. Some preachers preach that you give 10% and keep 90%- what a great deal! But Jesus did not teach that. His teachings on giving are not limited to 10%. If someone gives 10% and thinks that he has not more responsibility in regard to finances, he should reading the teachings of Jesus.

On the other hand, some preachers preach tithing as a Law. Many poor widows received support from the church. The church in Jerusalem also gave to those among them who have needs. Now, poor widows and others often hear preaching from preachers that they should pay tithes, as if it were a matter of Law. Instead of receiving support, they get milked for money. It is a blessed thing when the poor widow gives her two mites, but it is a terrible thing when someone tries to milk her of her two mites using guilt. I realize a lot of preachers do this sincerely, but are sincerely wrong.

Money in the early church went to widows and other needy peole. Apostels also received support. Now in many churches, money goes to pay for the big fancy building and for church staff, and sometimes little goes to help those among us in need.

Just some things to think about.

-- Anonymous, August 16, 2000

Marc...

I personally give my tithe without ever seeing it. I have my treasurer take it right off the top before I ever get my paycheck. This is a good system for me but it might not be for everybody else. I know that there are times that I can become tempted to use that money for something else so I keep my self accountable in tithing by doing this.

It sets a good example for my leaders because they know I put my money where my mouth is.

As far as Linc is concerned...he has missed the boat bigtime on this issue. Tithing pre-dates the law. And as far as that Malachi verse on tithing...show me anywhere in the NT where the promise of that verse has been rescinded.

He is working from a backwards premise. The teachings of Jesus don't make the load of the law lighter they increase it. I.E., adultery isn't just physical sex with another woman...it can be merely looking upon a woman with lust. Murder can be simply saying something mean- spirited to a brother.

How is it then that tithing could be expected to be any different than the progression of those other examples? As one of my professors put it, "Even the stingy Pharisees gave 10% to God." Are NT believers to do less? Is there such a thing as spiritual regression? As long as I give my 3% to God cheerfully am I not robbing God?

The starting place is 10% in our giving. I find it humorous that the ones who argue the hardest against tithing by calling it legalistic (or whatever else) are most likely the ones who don't tithe in the first place and don't want to be obligated to it either.

And as far as Marc's question about what to tithe from gross or net? I personally tithe from our gross salary package (but it doesn't include our health benefits).

-- Anonymous, August 16, 2000

Marc, I personally tithe from my gross income in other words if I get $600 in pay (total) then i tithe $60 dollars. But I would also add I give far more than the tithe. We are currently invovled in a Captial Stewardship Campaign in our church in which I pledged $16,000 for the next three years, one of my elders pledged $50,000. Out of our love for Christ and the Father, I will always give my tithe. Then I will give extra on top of it when I can. I preach and teach that- it is good and right to give at least the tithe for it represents the condition of your heart. And when God sees that your heart is right then- He will bless beyond all measure. Malachi 3 say that God will pour out His blessing upon those that give. I feel the tithe is still in place for all CHristians it is still binding. You will not go to hell if you do not tithe- for we are under grace- but a big blessing will not be given if you refuse to tithe. In the NT the CHristians gave above and beyond the tithe- but there is no evidence that Christians in the early church did not tithe.

-- Anonymous, August 16, 2000

Bro Marc and Bro. Kelley,

I don't doubt that the early Jewish Christians tithed. I just believed they paid their tithes according to the Law, and not as a tax given to the church. They tithed AND gave to the church. Remember that they were still using the temple and were zealous according to the law.

Btw, Marc, I do pay tithes, and have since I was a child. You can say that those who do not believe we are under the law to tithe do not want to give. If I wanted to, I could teach those who teach tithing of wanting people's money- but I won't since i think most people are just sincerely teaching what they believe and have been taught. I am not against tithing, and in general, this is something in the Law that is a good reminder. I've never accepted interest on a personal loan. Ithink the Law has a lot of good moral teaching for us about paying workers and that sort of thing. What disturbs me is to see preachers distorting the teachings of Malichi, substituting modern preachers for the Old Testament priesthood.

The RCC and Eastern churches took on a system similar to the Old Testament priesthood, complete with incense and priests. The bishop came to be seen as the high priest, priests and priests, deacons as Levites. the RCC system got more complicated than that. The RCC allegorically interpreted the OT about paying tithes. I can see why the doctrine has been perpetuated. People have heard it preached on a lot, and I suppose it pays the bills. Though the statistics show that most do not pay tithes.

Tithing did predate Moses (as did animal sacrifice and circumcision.) But we see no law for compulsory tithing before Moses. The Law to tithe is a part of the Law of Moses, and the church was not to put the Gentiles under that Law. If one wants to tithe from their free will now to the work of God, I think that is a good thing. I'm not against tithing. I'm against putting people under the Law.

One of the main tithes was actually eaten in Jerusalem (at the place the LORD they God shall choose.) Suppose someone ehard tithing sermons and saved up the produce of his field and brought it to the church house and started eating it- along with the wine his heart desired, as the passage says. What would the preacher say?

Suppose someone wanted to give a tenth of his tomatoes, and put them inthe offering plate. Keep in mind for those who lived close by they paid a tithe (or ate a tithe actually) from their crops, rather than buying food and drink with cash. What would the other people in the church say if a man tithed his tomatoes. What would they do if he paid a tithe of the leaves of his mint plant- something that Jesus approved of the Pharisees doing. I hear back then they would carefully count each leaf to pay tithes.

Why is it that people just want tithes in cash? It makes the church system run, but the preaching of tithing in terms of dollar signs isn't the rules for the tithe as described in the Old Testament.

I'd have to study more. Did the Law require merchants to tithe, or was it only in terms of agriculture. They may be a verse on this (which someone may present.)

Btw, God never commanded the Gentiles out in the nations to tithethat I am aware of. If He did, please show me. (He may have commanded strangers in the land, but that is a different issue.) Acts 15 deals with the gospel for the nations who were not circumcised, and were not to be circumcised.

Reading the Law and seeing one's own giving as less than those who did not have what we have should challenge those who do not give much.

Tithing is also used to assuage the consciences of some. They think they gave God His 10% and get to keep the rest. I don't see that taught in Jesus teachings. I see the opposite. We are to be wise in how we use all our money, and seek to advance the kingdom of God. And we are to be generous.

Tithing preaching can put the very peple that the church should be supporting, but doesn't under condemnation. We must preach about finances in the light of the gospel, and act in this way as well.

Most Americans, btw, are rich by world standards. Many people on welfare are doing pretty good as well compared to many in other countries.

-- Anonymous, August 16, 2000

Sorry that last message should be addressed to Michael not to Marc.

Just another thing I wanted to add in reponse to Kelley on a differnet thread.

That verse, 'For sin shall not have dominion over you for you are not under the Law but under grace' used to really stump me. The chapter was about how Christians did nothave to sin, and that verse seemed almost to be saying 'for sin shall not have dominion over you, because if you commit sin it will be forgiven. But this could NOT be what the passage was saying. That runs against Paul's other teaching in Romans 6.

Then one day, in a meeting, a brother read Romans 5, where it says that as sin as reigned unto death, evenso might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

The verse in Romans 6 about not letting sin reign in your mortal body came to mind. Hmmm. Romans 5 talks about grace reigning as sin reigns.

Grace reigns- what an interesting concept. I remembered hearing that some theologicans said grace was an 'active force.' I started recalling verses on the issue, and then studing them. I looked up grace in a concordance. Some key verses were:

In I Corinthains 15 Paul says he outlabored the other apostles, yet not he but the grace that was with him. It was grace that labored in Paul. The word for grace- 'charisma' is closely related to the word for 'gift'- charismata. I'd read charismata translated as 'gracelet.'

The concept of grace is also connected to power in the scriptures. The Lord told Paul,

My GRACE is sufficient for thee For my POWER/STRENGTH is madeperfect in weakness.

This reads like Herbew poetry where two ideas in two different lines are connected to one another. This is something seen throughout the Psalms and other parts of the OT. Here grace is paralleled with power.

So sin shall not have dominion over you for you are not under the Law, but under grace.

The one who is under the law does not do the good things he wills, but the evil that he does not want to do, he does.

But for him that is under grace, the power of God works in you to will and to do that which is good.

-- Anonymous, August 16, 2000

Link, thanks for that insight. The "gracelet" is an amazing concept that we often neglect or forget. The scripture is our "powerhouse" for strength and comfort. It gives us the needed amunition to combat Satan.

I feel the same as you Link concerning this issue. The tithe should be kept, if it is it reveal the nature of one's heart. Money is not our master. Those that say they cannot live on 90 or 80% are lving above their means (as most accountants and financial planner state). We must stope the credit card and high interest loan madness and start giving it all to the Lord. I just feel the tithe is the place to start, not the only place.

-- Anonymous, August 16, 2000

If anyone is against legalisms, it is I.

And as a Christian, I believe we should dedicate all that we have AND ARE to the Lord's service.

Having said that, I must post this:

Matthew 23:23: NASB

Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law; justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done, WITHOUT NEGLECTING THE OTHERS.

We should remember the widow and her mite.

Respectfully,

-- Anonymous, August 16, 2000

Danny,

Good questions... how about some answers?

As I'm sure you are aware, many would say we sould keep the Sabbath because it predated the Law. (However, was it ever "commanded" before the law? Or to any one but the Jews?)

Should we teach people to tithe... even if not as "law" but practice? Let's face it if we teach that God loves a cheerful giver, many would be cheerful giving far less than a tithe.

-- Anonymous, August 18, 2000

This isn't about tithing itself, but about a point of accuracy on something else. Link, you said that the Greek word for "Grace" is CHARISMA, and for "gifts" CHARISMATA. Sorry. You're close, but not quite. CHARISMA and CHARISMATA are really the same word. CHARISMA means "gift" (singular) and CHARISMATA means "gifts" (plural). The word for "grace" IS related. It is CHARIS.

It is true that the words are related. That's not surprising since the concepts are related. Grace is "unmerited favour", i.e. it is not something earned, but freely given. A "gift" too is not something earned, but freely given. So be careful not to build TOO HEAVY a theological argument on such slender evidence. A church without the miraculous gifts of the Spirit is not necessarily a church without grace or even a church that is "short" on grace, i.e. with less grace than it could or should have. Or if it is, you will need to PROVE that by other evidence. The simple etymological connection between the two words doesn't prove anything of the kind.

Also, remember that God's primary "grace" (and "gift") to us is that He accepts us and saves us through the blood of His son. Let's not devalue that by suggesting that those who have not experienced miraculous gifts (which were NEVER given to all, but only to some "as He wills") are somehow "lacking" in grace.

On tithing, my viewpoint has been that if the tithe was REQUIRED of those who lived before Christ, we who live "not under law but under grace" should certainly not be giving any less than that. But to REQUIRE that as a "law" for Christians seems to me to go contrary to what is taught about the law being done away with.

Whatever else I Cor. 16:1-2 teaches or doesn't teaches, it certainly seems to me to imply PROPORTIONATE giving -- "as you have prospered" or "in keeping with your income". I kind of like the idea of a "graduated tithe" (along the lines of a graduated scale of income tax, whereby the rich pay more). The idea was popular some years ago, but I haven't heard mention of it recently. As Link has pointed out, the U.S. is "rich" compared to the rest of the world, and so are most U.S. Christians compared to most "third-world" Christians.

But besides giving attention to how much the individual gives, I think we also need to give serious attention to how the money is used. Percentage-wise at least, churches today use their money in FAR DIFFERENT ways from the ways churches in New Testament times used theirs.

-- Anonymous, August 18, 2000

Benjamin,

Of course you are write abotu grace being 'charis.' I typed that in wrong, or remembered it wrong.

My point here was to bring up the aspect of grace as an empowering force, not to imply that those who did not do miracles, etc. did not have grace. Paul wrote to the Romans the the gifts were given to every man according to the measure of grace, and listed a list of charismata that included prophecy and various other gifts that are not considered to be 'miraculous.' Paul lists more spectacular gifts in I Corinthians and calls them charismata as well. If we were to compare grace to a pot of vegetable stew filled with an incredible number of vegetables, the vegetables could represent the gifts of the Spirit. We might get different vegetables dipped to us from the stew of grace, but no matter what gets dipped out to us, it is still grace. I Peter 4 says to minister the gifts as good stweards of the manifold grace of God. The concepts of grace and gracelets are really closely linked in scriture passages. I wasn't implying anything about those who did not do miracles above, just explaining about grace. There are plenty who don't do miracles, but they get other vegetables dipped to them from the grace pot. The Lord distributes severally as he will.

It doesn't makse sense to find a Bible verse that says that one day, peas and green beans will pass away, and conclude from that the brussel sprouts will be taken out of the stew as well because they are green. Some try to say miracles, etc. have ceased because they interpret a passage (using a bit of theological speculation) to say that tongues, prophecy, and knowledge have already ceeased. Tongues and prophecy may seem more 'miraculous,' but that doesn't mean miracules and healing would pass away with tongues and prophecy.

We are supposed to work by the grace of God. If we do works in the flesh, wihtout the empowering grace of God, then our works will be worthless. If someone teaches without any grace to do it, how can he impart anything of value. There is a gift of teaching, given according to the grace of God as per Romans 12. So if someone says all the charismata have passed, what do they think we have left? Works done fromthe power of the flesh? Paul let us in on a secret whenhe said thathte life he lived inthe body, he lived by faith ofthe Son of God. It was no longer he that lived, but Christ that lived in him. Our works need to be done through grace, through gifts, and not through the power of our own flesh- whether htese gifts appear spectacular or mundane.

Btw, I agree that many chruches use money quite differently f it was used in the early church. Now it is used to pay preacher's salaries, for the building, and for various social activities. backthen, they supported widows, them that had need, and supported travelling ministers who proclaimed the gospel to the lost. They also gave to the poor saints in Jerusalem, and 'honored'elders.

-- Anonymous, August 19, 2000

Marc,

Great to 'hear' from you again! I hope & pray your new ministry is going well....

I wanted to address one specific question from your original post that I don't believe was responded to. You said, "What about the person who operates a business (I have been asked this many times)... should they tithe on their gross income? Many businesses dont even net 10%. " I personally can't see how one should give of the gross income from a business.... Let's say that I have a business where I gross $100,000.00 in sales but spend $90,000.00 to generate those sales. If I were to give 10% based on the gross.... I would be giving all of the profit away.... with nothing left to live on! And, as you indicate, it could be worse than that... what if I had gross sales for the year of $100,000.00 but spent $100,000.00 (bad year)....

-- Anonymous, August 25, 2000

Hi Robin,

Things are going good here in MN other than VERY busy! But the church and the people are a great group and on fire for the Lord! They could use some work on their doctrine, but I feel that is why God sent me here.

I would agree with your statement... however, some would say that in the O.T. the Jews were required to give a tithe of everything. This would be the gross income of their business (example if they were a shepherd they would give 1 sheep out of 10).

I realize that business is different today and I think between this diccussion and others we have come to see that the tithe "may" (I say "may" because it did preceed the law?) not be binding on the Christian... at least not in a legalistic way.

I also feel that if the Christian business owner turns their business over to God... they will prosper and likely will be able to give a tithe on the gross if God so chooses... just a thought:)

-- Anonymous, August 26, 2000

Matt. 17:25-26 25. He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers? 26. Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free. (KJV)

If You are a stranger Then Pay, But If your a Child of God, KNOW GOD! 2. Cor,3:14-17 14. But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. 15. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. 16. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. 17. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. (KJV)

2. Cor, 4:3-4 3. But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4. In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. (KJV)

-- Anonymous, September 16, 2000

Dr. Lakie R Fogle Jr.,

I don't quite get what you are saying here.

First Jesus is talking about taxes not tithing in Mt.17.

Second, why would an unbeliever give and a believer not want to give? We know that the early church gave everything (Acts 4-5). And the other churches took up offerings.

-- Anonymous, September 17, 2000

Jesus Said then are the Children Free, Do you think that just means customs or did he say custom or tribute? Tithes are taught by Hirelings or Christian Posers, Jesus sends his Messengers out with no money nor were they to recieve money, Thats why they were not to take purses with them. {they had no pockets on there Robes} John 10:7-16

7. Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

8. All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. { This is a prophetic message Jesus had not ascended yet } 9. I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

10. The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

11. I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

12. But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

13. The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.

14. I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

When we Have part with Jesus we will see the Thieves for who they are. Rom 16:18

18. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

While Most Churchs are not against God, They Just Do not Know Him, And need Tithes to fullfill there coveting idol worshipping Hearts. But some Find Christ by the Robbing Sheppards Seeds, By personal devotion and studys.

2 Cor 11:8

8. I robbed other churches, taking wages of them, to do you service.

Jesus Never told any of his children to pay tithes, But he did say for them to give to the Poor, Jesus Never said to build a Church with hands, He sent Christians out, Not keeping them couped up in some building on Sundays and Wensdays, Jesus did say the buildings will be destroyed in the last days. Jesus is in a spiritual midst that is part of Gods Kingdom, And through Spiitual Worship we are able to be part of that Kingdom, And when you do you will have part of the same Spirit that Moved the Holy men of God to write The Scriptures, And your Understanding will increase according to the Measure of God, Who is not a respecter of persons.

-- Anonymous, September 18, 2000

Brother Fogle,

I don't agree with teaching on tithes that puts people under the Law. Preachers who preach this as law adapt the Law. Instead of preaching to eat tithes in Jerusalem once a year, tithing become a matter of paying 10% of cash income (as opposed to animals and produce) to support the church system. I believe Christians should be generous. The Old Testament laws on tithing and other instructions can be a challenge to us to show us if they gave like that, how much more shoudl we give.

The early church spent money feeding the poor and taking care of widows. theya lso supported men who proclaimed the gospel among the poor, and to compensate elders who led well, especially those who labored in preaching and teaching. Now a lot of money goes to building projects. It was common in the early chruch to meet in homes. There is a way to save money.

I don't think that everyone that teaches tithes wrongly is a hireling. Many who teach tithing don't receive wages themselves. Many teach it as Law because they are sincerely wrong.

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-- Anonymous, September 18, 2000