Follwoing our debate regarding who our best/worst manager EVER was, I found the following page on the useful Soccerbase site:

http://www.soccerbase.com/footballlive/?MIval=manager_history&teamid=1823

It sets out our entire managerial history (without points deducted for TSM for the grave sin of not being Kevin Keegan ((-:). Later on, I'll do an averages thing, but it looks without checking as though KK was just about oiur most successful maanger in terms of games won.

-- Anonymous, August 15, 2000

Answers

Well, if you do an average with 1 for a win and -1 for a loss (0 for a draw), then Keegan comes out way on top with +0.302. Ardiles at the bottom with -0.191, closely followed by Dinnis, then McGarry, Charlton, Lee, Dalglish, Smith, Guulit, Cox, Keegan.

Gullit is the surprise - all his losses being heavily weighted to his last season

-- Anonymous, August 15, 2000

Giving 3 points per win, 1 per draw, 0 per defeat; take the average; multiply by 38 to get the points for a leagues season... we get:

Kevin Keegan 69
Bobby Robson 62
Arthur Cox 61
Kenny Dalglish 54
Gordon lee 53
Jim Smith 53
Joe Harvey 53
Ruud Gullit 50
Willie McFaul 49
Jack Charlton 47
Bill McGarry 46
Richard Dinnis 44
Ossie Ardiles 39

-- Anonymous, August 15, 2000

Very interesting. Obviously, some adjustment nbeeds to be made for having won something and for other achievements - Frank Watt built the club and Kevin Keegan rebuilt it. Two highest achievers in our history?

-- Anonymous, August 15, 2000

I don't know why this should be hailed as evidence in helping to decide our worst manager ever.

Kenny Dalglish ahead of St Joe Harvey? I rest my case.

-- Anonymous, August 15, 2000

Jonno - you should hear what Keegan has to say about the Harvey Myth ((-:

-- Anonymous, August 15, 2000

What DOES KK say about the Harvey myth? The Fairs Cup, 1969, the ONLY time a North East team has ever won a Euro trophy, was not a myth was it? I mean, I was there I'm sure of it, or am I suffering from false memory syndrome as a result of premature senile dementia?

All right then I'll leave out the word "premature".

-- Anonymous, August 15, 2000

It doesn't take into account the quality of opposition in the seasons concerned. A comparison with the average number of points achieved in a season by the rest of the clubs gives an indication as to how well we were doing for that time in each case.

-- Anonymous, August 15, 2000

I nearly left Joe out when I saw the result! 563 games for Joe Harvey and only 76 for KD. I'm sure KD could have brought his average down if he hadn't resigned.

-- Anonymous, August 15, 2000

Quite right Softie. A weighting for picking up points in the Premiership rather than 1st division would be interesting.

It's all just a bit of fun really. Doesn't take into account the quality of the inherited squad, the ammount of money available to buy success etc..

-- Anonymous, August 15, 2000

Geordie - you sound almost sorry he didn't resign! Jonno - he says that he made us a decent Cup side (although tragically flawed in 74) but that we were never better than poor as a league side and that therefore he is over-rated as a manager.

-- Anonymous, August 15, 2000

Dougal.. ouch that hurts! Believe me I was not sorry he resigned. I was sad he wasn't sacked 3 months earlier though.

-- Anonymous, August 15, 2000

>>>>we were never better than poor as a league side and that therefore he is over-rated as a manager.

I wouldn't argue with the fact that we were poor as a league side but that is a situation which lasted for more than 30 years prior to the arrival of Keegan (and quickly resumed on his departure!)

The difference is that Keegan was the first manager to benefit from the SJH revolution and was backed to the hilt in terms of money to spend. KK spent it brilliantly and the results are there to see. All previous managers to Keegan suffered from Boards with zero ambition and Harvey was the only one to achieve success during the period. (Promotion, Fairs Cup, FA Finalists). Harvey was a brilliant manager in circumstances in which KK would undoubtedly have resigned, so it's a bit churlish of the Messiah to cast nasturtiums at St Joe, but I'll leave KK's record on the park to speak for itself and ignore his comments about his predecessors. KK and Joe Harvey are the two best managers we have had to date and will be coming under pressure, in those positions, from YBR in this coming season! (-;

-- Anonymous, August 15, 2000