animal rights activists are on the move beware (misc)

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another site i check is the meat rabbit digest. i read a recent post from a rabbit raiser in missouri that due to her dog barking ealy in the morning went out and caught 3 animal rights activists putting some of her rabbits into her own rabbit travel boxes. she reported that they even had taken a doe with 10kits left in the nest box. she reported that she physically restrained two of the ara's then her step son arrived with a rifle and then covered them while 911 was called. all three of the activists spent some time in jail as a judge was not availabe to set bail until monday morning. this was in a rural area where livestock is an industry which i guess is one reason that the police were more than willing to arrest these people. i bring this up because many of us sell or plan to sell from the homestead and some of these people could and would become a problem for us to. i guess i am just suggesting that we need to be aware of this possible problem and to maybe keep our powder dry. which might not be a bad suggestion anyway. what do you think. gail

-- gail missouri ozarks (gef123@hotmail.com), August 11, 2000

Answers

I had some problems with the local Humane Society about 10 years ago, a neighbor turned me in they thought slaughtering chickens was being cruel to animals and the person in charge at the local Humane Society at the time agreed, but the Sheriff diddn't. I than had to watch my back for a while because they were watching me. I bought a load of skinny goats at an Auction and brougt them home to fatten them up and they said I was starving them, I had to show the Sheriff that I just purchased them 2 days before. Now someone else is in charge at the Humane Society and they are a lot easier to get along with! They have even called me a couple of times for advice.

A few of the Local Livestock Auction around here won't let anyone near their places with any types of cameras or recording devices because of the problems the animal rights people have caused.

-- Mark (deadgoatman@webtv.net), August 12, 2000.


I hate to hear this last bit about the cameras, although I can sympathize. I am an animal rights-concerned person, and a reason those cameras are brought in the first place (theoretically) is to make sure no one is mistreating the animals. I know many like-minded folk get out of hand, but there are people who want the cameras gone for their own purposes. For example, my sis sent me a newpaper article on the traffic in illegally obtained dogs for sale to research labs. Many of these animals have no provenence and there are people who make a living aquiring dogs (in any way they can, including snatching them off the street and out of yards) to sell to these dealers. The dealers are supposed to have the equivilent of a "clear title", but inforcement is all but non-existant, and cameras and camcorders are sometimes the only way theses animals are ever identified as stolen pets, or victims of mistreatment, etc. while I realize that over zealous activists can make everybody's life more difficult, I feel that banning recording devices only acts to exacerbate the problem that started the camera craze to begin with, in that those who want anonymity for less than ethical reasons have a "legitimate" gripe to hide behind and an easily winnable group of inconvenienced and aggrevated people to back them. For all of you who do care (and I know most of you do) please consider the possibilty that what you can't film can hurt someone, or something, and that abuses cannot easily occur in a recorded environment. This makes for better quality livestock for everyone and an easy way to assure most activists that while things at the sale areas may be distasteful to them they are (proveably) legal and humane within the law provided. If the cameras show that the law does not go far enough, or if abuses are uncovered, then grassroots activists have something concrete to work with and cannot simply make blanket statements that affect everyone who happens to be there buying and selling. Just my opinion. with all due respect to those who do not share my views.

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), August 12, 2000.

Sometimes the activists or humane workers have a valid point.

A guy in the local area just about starves his cattle through winter. Humane Society got a court order to force him to feed them better.

The local cattle auction is on Tuesday. Cattle often come in on Saturday or Sunday, where they would stay with no feed or water until after the auction. Humane Society also forced them to provide hay and water for any animal which arrives prior to the day of the auction. I know when I have brought some home the first place they headed was the water tank.

-- Ken S. in TN (scharabo@aol.com), August 12, 2000.


I would have liked to read more details about the instance you've brought up, but I couldn't find

-- Cathy Horn (hrnofplnty@webtv.net), August 12, 2000.

I would have liked to read more details about the instance you've brought up, but I couldn't find any information. Was the place a real nightmare that would make most of us cry if we saw it with our own eyes? Many of us might not call ourselves "activists", yet we wouldn't hesitate to speak up if we saw an act of animal cruelty. I have seen conditions that the owners deemed fit, yet none of us would dream of forcing an animal to live in such filth. I would hope that none of us would turn our backs and pretend we didn't see. Granted, sneaking in at night might not be the best way to handle it.

-- Cathy Horn (hrnofplnty@webtv.net), August 12, 2000.


Oops! Finger slipped. Sorry.

-- Cathy Horn (hrnofplnty@webtv.net), August 12, 2000.

there are a few livestock auctions around here most of the times the animals look pretty rough but not beyond hope they do not supply hay or water they get around that by not allowing stock to be brought more then 8 hrs. before the sale.one ? i have noticed alot of dairy cows w/ cut tails why is this done? dont the flys get them. i am not a off the wall activist but i believe in human transport and holding pens. New holland realy opened my eyes to how cruel some people can be. i saw draft horses loaded on to double decker trailers there backs touched the roof , they were on their way to a meat factory in canada for slaughter, now that is inhuman at least a 2 day drive in those conditions.

-- renee oneill (oneillsr@home.com), August 12, 2000.

Renee:

Dairy cows tails are docked to try to keep manure, etc. off of the bag. A tail isn't a very effective flyswatter anyway.

-- Ken S. in TN (scharabo@aol.com), August 12, 2000.


Sometimes people act on convictions a bit too early. There groups of animal "activists" that act in reasonable ways out of a truly loving heart and then there are those who act on partial information and don't think things through completely. Many definite abuses have been brought to light by activists and stopped for at least a time. Please don't use too broad of a brush when talking about this.

I saw a man selling goats and sheep out of a stock trailer along a large highway here. One goats eye was gouged out hanging on his cheek , the sheep were covered in feces and it was over 90 and he was parked in full sun.There was no water nor feed for any of them and I would guess he had thirty or more when I was there.When I told him that I thought he should have some more concern for his animals, he called me something like "a tree hugging liberal freak" and told me in no uncertain terms that these were just animals and to mind my own business.

In that situation who is right? It wouldn't have helped the animals any for me to fling the door open and chase them out to be run over on the highway, but that kind of animal "husbandry" is abuse, isn't it?

-- Doreen (liberty546@hotmail.com), August 12, 2000.


I pretty well agree with what has been said. Anyone who knows my operation knows I treat my cattle herd with respect and ample summer grass or winter hay. However, when it is time for them to drop out of the operation, it is their time. Sometimes it is easy to cull, sometimes hard when it has been a semi-pet animal and I know they are going directly to a slaughterhouse from the livestock barn. When I haul cattle I put a chain with a padlock on both the back and side door of the trailer if I am going to stop anywhere for lunch or whatever. It isn't animal rights folks who concern me so much as teenagers opening the door and letting out the cattle just as a lark.

-- Ken S. in TN (scharabo@aol.com), August 12, 2000.


I read an article in the national newspaper the other day where CA has legislation pending that will give animals rights to the extent of outlawing pet "ownership". Instead, when you purchase a pet, you become the animals legal guardian, similar to as with a minor child. The article said that this was in response to incidents of animal abuse such as the one about the interstate road rage where the dog was thrown into traffic. I sympathize with protecting animals, however, I am concerned at what groups as PETA will attempt against livestock producers and farmers with this broad type of legislation.

-- Jay Blair (jayblair678@yahoo.com), August 13, 2000.

as an update to this posting the site i am talking about is meatrabbets@egroups.com the story i am referring to would now be in their archives which is no longer available to non-members. i do not know the person who this happened to but the way i understand it she was picked from her posting on this site not because of any wrongdoing but that she admitted to raising animals (rabbits) for meat. i to believe in the humane treatment of animals and have many on my homestead just because i like animals as pets but i plan on raising meat animals on mine and don't think that just because of the end product being meat instead of pets that that in its self is abuse. an animal should have good housing, proper feed and i also think the care which it should be entitled to. it bothers me most that so many of the activists still eat meat but want to deny anyone the right to raise it. i also think that the buturing of the animal when the time comes should be as painless as possible i think that the way i kill a rabbit to dress it out is much better that starvation or the method used by the local coyotes. my concern is that since this person was found just by the activists checking a site where meat raisers post is disquieting as we too post about raising animals to eat on this forum. i forgot to say the reason the meatrabbits archives is no longer open to the public is to restict further abuse to the people who post on this site. gail

-- gail missouri ozarks (gef123@hotmail.com), August 13, 2000.

A few weeks ago in N. Vernon, In. an animal rights group set fire to a truck at the Rose Acre Egg Farm. Said they didn't treat the chickens right. Seems like they could find more "right" way to get their point across. Have you seen the don't eat pig commercials?

-- Cindy (atilrthehony_1@yahoo.com), August 15, 2000.

I favor trigger locks for pets!!! ALL in favor...say AYE....

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), August 15, 2000.

Doreen,

I think you and I are on about the same page here. These animal rights people tend to get involved in actions long before they engage their brains. Recently a bunch of them attacked a mink farm around here in the middle of the night and let the roughly 5000 minks loose. Needless to say, the minks ate just about every critter around for miles. Im sure that the minks only practiced the most humane methods of slaughter.

I read a story a couple of years ago about a flood in Florida. It seems that herds of deer were trapped on islands in the swamps and were starving. The rights people threw a fit about the state wanting to let some hunters thin out the herd so the deer didnt starve and instead said that they would mount a rescue effort. They rounded up all kinds of people and boats and such, tranquilized boat loads of deer and hauled them all off after giving them vasectomies. Needless to say, all the deer they "rescued" promptly died from stress related complications and infections. These people would be funny if it werent for the tragedy that they killed more than they saved.

I think that all farm animals have the "right" to happy, fat, pain-free, relatively comfortable lives...until its time for the freezer.

-- William in WI (thetoebes@webtv.net), August 15, 2000.



As much as I hate to say it, I have to agree with y'all that sometimes my animal rights activists are as knee jerk in their reactions as any gun advocate or corporate CEO when it comes to where their passions lie. Just like people who think that all gun laws are an attempt to take away their guns and CEOs think that every grass roots consumer group are the Luddites incarnate, some activists can't see the stress-killed deer for the Get-em-out-alive forest. They mean well, but most of them haven't been closer to a deer than a petting zoo as a child and know not what they do. I try to keep an open mind myself, although I'm as subject to flaring bouts of sentimentalism as much as anyone. I hope that one day the activists and the other siders can just quit yelling at each other long enough to work out some sort or compromise that would make the animals happy and not the people. Folks tend to think that whatever makes them feel good will make the animal feel good, but activists fail to logically connect these thoughts wiht their own research used against animal researchers, namely that animals aren't small, fuzzy (scaly) people and will not react as such under medical testing - nor under emergency rescues or midnight release raids. Just because you don't want something to die doesn't mean that that isn't what's best for the animal. It's just what's best for you. This same argument, in adjusted form, is what we activists use to let animal exploiters know that believing an animal doesn't feel pain or suffering is selfish and not scientific. Physician, heal thyself - and activist, read thy own literature before leaping into the abyss of no-turning-back action.

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), August 18, 2000.

Soni, hmm...very thoughtful post...you make some excellent observations.

I just returned from taking a baby bunny into our local wildlife rescue clinic. This poor thing had been harrassed by my five cats for over a day, and I finally caught it. I really thought about putting it down myself (didn't get to how, exactly) but then thought it might be worth a trip to the facility as "he" showed a lot of pluck. I am clueless about wild rabbit care, although I did research the archives, weighed some options, and then put the creature into a box and headed out.

While there, I thought of the many wonderful volunteers who rescue and treat these wild animals. Also, next door to that is a low cost vet facility/shelter, with a no-kill policy. I also thought about how it's located fairly close to a large population center (Seattle) and truly, how most folk in cities only know animals as their friendly dog and/or cat. They may really care about animals, but think that they are all about the same as Fido and Fluffy.

I love my animals way more than I should sometimes, so I guess I have some sympathy for folks who love all creatures great and small, even though clueless. Many have little or no understanding of how other creatures live and die.

Animal research is a tough topic and I have feelings both pro and con about it. I definitely think cosmetics research is frivolous and idiotic, but research to save lives deserves some consideration. I don't know enough about it.

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), August 18, 2000.


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