Warnings from our Mother, We foolishly ignored.

Global warming the beginning, of Hell on Earth to come.

No longer does it matter, for now, it is too late.

It is Hell We have created, it is Hell that is Our fate.

Hell, the fate We have created, for All of Mother's Life.

Visions of our fate, and lyrics by Jim Morrison.....

The time to hesitate is through

No time to wallow in the mire

Try now we can only lose

And our love become a funeral pyre

This is the end, beautiful friend

This is the end, my only friend

The end of our elaborate plans

The end of ev'rything that stands

The end

-- (goodbye@blue.sky), August 09, 2000

Answers

You may now return to your cheeseburgers and automobiles.

-- Will (righthere@home.now), August 09, 2000.

Very somber pictures.This is how dessertification begins.Now we know why the middle East looks the way it does.Not a tree or a bush,just brown dry hills.

-- Dan Newsome (BOONSTAR1@webtv.net), August 09, 2000.

That will be our epitaph...

"Here lies the Human Race... they loved their cheeseburgers an automobiles"

Funny, but on the other hand, pathetic.

You are witnessing the beginning stages of runaway global warming. The atmosphere has warmed the oceans, the oceans have altered the weather patterns, the planet is getting hotter and drier. The hotter and drier the planet gets, the easier she burns. She burns up oxygen and produces carbon dioxide, causing the atmosphere to get warmer still. The warmer atmosphere causes the oceans to warm even more still, and the vicious cycle continues, ever accelerating. Soon there is little vegetation or clean air. The air becomes poisonous, the water that pours onto the barren land, toxic and unsafe to drink. You know the rest.

Take your children for a ride in your wonderful vehicles, they may never grow old enough to drive one themselves. Rest in peace human race, the dumbest species that ever lived.

-- (think.i.need@lear.jet), August 09, 2000.

There is nothing in any of these pictures that is any more bleak than what we've been through in eastern NC since last September.

The devastation from Hurricane Floyd will take many people here at least 10 years to recover from. The worst disaster to hit here since Columbus discovered America.

Yet we continue.

Jim Morrison was an idiot, found dead in a bathtub in Paris of a drug overdose. Anyone who dies of a drug overdose is a stupid idiot. PERIOD.

Smart people find ways to live, and survive. As opposed to dying in bathtubs, in drug-induced stupors.

-- Chicken Little (panic@isover.now), August 09, 2000.

Spoken like the true idiot you are, Chicken Shit.

In my lifetime I've seen my own community turn into a shithole that was once a beautiful pristine area of lakes and woods. From the elite assholes with their million dollar plus homes on prime lake property, to the trailer trash with their multitutudinous kids and junk cars on half-acre lots in the woods--add to this the creep arsonists, the mega livestock farms with all the manure, and you have both slow and immediate destruction of nature and everything we call environment.

And who the hell made you the judge of Jim Morrison? Does the circumstances under which he died, or his personal life, diminish the truth of his lyrics. Hell no you, dumbass. Of course you're so damned smart, you and Jesse Helms, and all the other inbreds, and the Murphy's hog farms will continue as pure as fresh snow.

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), August 09, 2000.

Forest fires are no more a sign of global warming than hurricanes are a sign of global flooding.

Jumping to extreme conclusions is irrational.

-- (not@today.thanx), August 09, 2000.

"Forest fires are no more a sign of global warming than hurricanes are a sign of global flooding."

Forest fires are not a sign of global warming, but there are more of them as a result of global warming. The planet is hotter and drier than ever before, thus there are more fires and they are harder to stop.

"Jumping to extreme conclusions is irrational."

Perhaps, but ignoring the obvious is foolish.

"-- (not@today.thanx), August 09, 2000."

Yes I know, you don't want to hear about this. That is the same thing that people have been saying for the last 20 years! No matter, it is too late to change the course of nature now. Our fate is sealed. When children ask us if they can stop and smell the roses, shall we tell them "not today, thanx"?

-- mankind (should@be.ashamed), August 09, 2000.

Chicken Little, couldn't agree more with the Jim thing.

Let's see if I got this thread straight. Fires are the result of global warming, a vicious cycle that learjet points out. Sorry, I'm not buying what you're selling. I disagree that the oceans have warmed and that the earth is hotter.

Fires are the result of forests that are too thick with brush. Sometimes they are started by people (truly tragic), sometimes nature has her way.

Gilda, sorry to hear about your community. But that doesn't imply the rest of world has gone the same way. There are many "ancient" cities that have survived many inhabitants and catastrophes, Rome is one of them. Besides it seems to me that you're just complaining about people being people and living out their lives the way they want.

Not today thanx has it right, IMO.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), August 09, 2000.

Gadzooks,

I find myself agreeing with Maria.

Fire is an important element in forest ecology. The great recycler - freeing up nutrients & sunlight for the next generation. Because of our practice of fire suppression, the fuel levels in most forests have built up to a level that is almost unmanageable.

Remember Yellowstone.

Chicken,

Nuthin' like a little binary thinking first thing in the morning.

goodbye@blue,sky,

Thank you for playing, have you seen C. Gerges around anywhere?

Vanna,

What are my lovely parting gifts?

-- flora (***@__._), August 09, 2000.

Forest fires are not a sign of global warming, but there are more of them as a result of global warming. The planet is hotter and drier than ever before, thus there are more fires and they are harder to stop."

You have no proof for these statements. If you CAN prove it you can win a Nobel prize this year. Good luck.

-- (not@today.thanx), August 09, 2000.

flora, one of the first things I thought about when I saw these pictures was Yellowstone and how, about four days after the fires were finally put out, new sprouts began to appear through the ashes.

The forests have a way of renewing themselves when they need it; clear out the dead to make way for the new.

(And as for your Lovely Parting Gifts, we have the Home Version of TB2K Spinoff Uncensored...Yes, now you can play in the privacy of your own home! See all the trolls! Read daily inspirations from Prophets such as Al-D! Read up on the latest in Y2K (Old) News! Learn more than you ever wanted to know about the Private Lives of Your Fellow Posters! In addition, we have a year's supply of Turtle Wax.)

-- Patricia (PatriciaS@lasvegas.com), August 09, 2000.

Nuthin' like a little binary thinking first thing in the morning.

I was just getting into the 1st shot of adrenaline surging through my body, my mind racing; how do I reveal CL's tunnel vision to him? And then I read your one-liner! No more adrenaline, just a shit-eating grin. Satisfaction.

Thanks. I needed that.

-- Bingo1 (howe9@shentel.net), August 09, 2000.

Chicken Little...

.....I was going to say the same thing; Morrison was an idiot that drowned on hisown vomit... why would anyone take advice from someone so stupid?

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), August 09, 2000.

Folks:

Let's see if I get the reasoning correct. The fires this year are a symptom of human-caused, runaway global warming. Well what does that mean? Let's look at the data.

The amount of land burned so far this year is approximately 20% of what was burned in the fire year 1950. While no one really knows exactly [fires were too extensive to actually get reliable data], the amount of land burned this year is less than 10% [probably much less] of what burned in 1910.

Let's follow the logic. What does this mean? Well to me it means that human-caused, global warming peaked in 1910 or earlier and has been declining since then.

Of course I may have this wrong, but it makes sense to me.

Best wishes,,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), August 09, 2000.

Z,

Maybe. The question is 'what is your opinion on Jim Morrison'.

-- flora (***@__._), August 09, 2000.

Howdy Flora:

That should have been followed by :^)

Morrison produced good work. That's all I judge him by. I am one of the least qualified judgers of other people based on their private lives. Poets and Prophets are all expected to be non-human in their own countries. Actually, I've have found most upstanding, home-loving writers to be uninteresting. Just my observation.

Best wishes,,,

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), August 09, 2000.

Ah Dan, you obviously have not taken a geologists view of the Middle East. There are some long-standing documented reasons for the lack of foliage. No Soil, No Water.

-- Ra (tion@l.1), August 09, 2000.

Ra...

.....The real reason is because God said He would make it so; and today? Desolation, as promised...

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), August 09, 2000.

Patrick:

Have you spent much time there? Technology has made it bloom. Go to Europe and eat those Israeli citrus fruits. I'm not sure where you get these ideas.

Best wishes,,,,

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), August 09, 2000.

Z...

.....Man making it bloom with technology doesn't change the fact that God made it desolate. I live in Ohio, and we don't need much technology to make things bloom, it happens naturally.

.....By the way; if I were over there in the driest desert, and had billions of US tax dollars thrown to me every 365 days; I could make it bloom too...

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), August 09, 2000.

Howdy Patrick:

You should look these things up before you type. The desert there is not all that dry. It is a glorious area compared to the deserts in places like Chile [average of 0.03 in of rain/year and Sudan]. Do you think that God cursed Chile?

Ohio: without technology it would grow very little. That is the way it is. Of course if you think you could live with 15 bu/ac maize and no soybeans or milo or wheat; that is what you would have without technology. You should go down to the Wooster station and look around sometime. It would help your outlook.

Best wishes,,

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), August 09, 2000.

"Chicken Little...

.....I was going to say the same thing; Morrison was an idiot that drowned on hisown vomit... why would anyone take advice from someone so stupid?

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), August 09, 2000."

This not the same Patrick that I remember, must be an impostor troll. No one said anything about taking advice from Jim Morrison, his lyrics (in red) were put here as thoughts to ponder. There is no need to take any "advice" on this subject. As I said, it is already too late. We're going to Hell, sit back and enjoy the ride. ;-)

-- (have@a.cigar), August 09, 2000.

Gilda...

Are you okay?

-- cin (cin@cinn.cin), August 09, 2000.

Z:

Very funny; but you know that facts don't sway some folks. I have had trouble getting through on email.

I am heading to western Montana. Have you heard anything from friends in the Hamilton area.

Thanks,

Grego

-- Gregor (Gregor10001@yahoo.com), August 09, 2000.

"Let's follow the logic. What does this mean? Well to me it means that human-caused, global warming peaked in 1910 or earlier and has been declining since then.

Of course I may have this wrong, but it makes sense to me. "

Z, perhaps it's because that since 1910, there has been a runnaway urban sprawl, building closer to fire zones, and with the media reporting every single one we're left with the impression that the fires themselves are getting worse. Same thing with floods.

I do believe that in North America at least, even as the population is expanding rapidly, polution is controlled much better than in the past centuries of unchecked refineries and dumpings. So IMO, "we're not all going to die" any time soon ;)

-- (pondering@home...), August 09, 2000.

Pondering:

Z, perhaps it's because that since 1910, there has been a runnaway urban sprawl, building closer to fire zones, and with the media reporting every single one we're left with the impression that the fires themselves are getting worse. Same thing with floods.

You are totally correct. It is also true that the intensity of the fires in 1910 started the idea of fire suppression; which has continued to build-up fuel. You can't build-up fuel and build houses in between the fuel and not expect problems. Your arguments apply really well to California; less so to Darby, Montana. Otherwise, I agree with you.

Best wishes,

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), August 09, 2000.

Nice denial you got there Z! lol

-- (it.will.never@happen.to.us), August 09, 2000.

have@cigar...

.....It's me; I just never liked Morrison...

Z...

.....I've been up to Wooster, great place! I love the arboretum they have there; used to do a few photo shoots there. What I didn't mention is that we have a farm in Ohio... trust me, things grow quite well in "volunteer" status...

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), August 09, 2000.

Hello Gregor, you ol'devil:

I haven't heard anything from friends in western Montana. The smoke is huge. If you haven't left before daylight, look at the live cam in Bozeman. Bozeman This is 200 miles from the fire producing the smoke.

You can't even see the Bridger mountains which are only 5 miles away.

Sorry folks but Gregor is having email problems.

Best wishes,,,,

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), August 09, 2000.

-- (less.trees.means@less.CO2.absorbed), August 09, 2000.

Nice denial you got there Z! lol

-- (it.will.never@happen.to.us), August 09, 2000.

Since I don't follow, please elaborate. I am in town for some PhD exams. I will be leaving soon. So don't tarry. Thanks.

Best wishes,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), August 09, 2000.

"Let's follow the logic. What does this mean? Well to me it means that human-caused, global warming peaked in 1910 or earlier and has been declining since then."

That's not logic at all, especially when you consider the fact that the world today is an entirely different place than it was in 1910.

"Of course I may have this wrong, (and you are) but it makes sense to me." (denial)

-- Mr. Spock (highly@illogical.captain), August 09, 2000.

Since 1984, tropical waters in the Northern Hemisphere have warmed at a rate of about 1 degree Fahrenheit per decade, according to data compiled by NOAA. This figure is 10 times the global rate, a harbinger of climate change.

The Northern Hemisphere is where the Indusrtialized Nations are located, so the greenhouse gases we pour into the atmosphere is causing this part of the globe to warm much quicker.

-- (get@a.clue), August 09, 2000.

Z, you said---

"Folks:

Let's see if I get the reasoning correct. The fires this year are a symptom of human-caused, runaway global warming. Well what does that mean? Let's look at the data.

The amount of land burned so far this year is approximately 20% of what was burned in the fire year 1950. While no one really knows exactly [fires were too extensive to actually get reliable data], the amount of land burned this year is less than 10% [probably much less] of what burned in 1910.

Let's follow the logic. What does this mean? Well to me it means that human-caused, global warming peaked in 1910 or earlier and has been declining since then.

Of course I may have this wrong, but it makes sense to me.

Best wishes,,,,,Z"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Z--

So what are you saying? That this year's fires are within the long term range (last 90 years) of forest fire magnitudes? That would mean that they are nothing to be overly alarmed about; nothing to justify talk about the imminent end of the world by fire. Right? I hope that is your view as a scientist. It is my view as a non-scientist.

In the early 70's, I attended a vary high level lecture at the U. of Wisconsin-Madison in which a prominent Meteorologist argued strongly that we were about to enter a new Ice Age. The Global Warming alarmists did not even exist at that time.

Gilda--just an observation, not a judgement: Some folks get angrier as they age; some get mellower. I'm glad to be one of the latter.

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), August 10, 2000.

Lars:

Something like that. At this point fire is less than what we have seen over that last 100 years, but well within the statistical boundaries. This has nothing to do with global runaway warming. I tend to ignore the collection of high school students and eco-terrorists who sometimes post here. One said that the ocean in the northern hem. was warming 1 degree/decade. I just went to two seminars this week in the area [one speaker from Boulder and one from La Jolla]. Neither had those facts.

Based on past experience, the fire season will get worse. I've lived through lesser ones in the west. In a normal year, snow will start in the high country of Montana in a week or so. This may not be a normal year. Let's hope it is a normal year.

Best wishe

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), August 10, 2000.

FIRE AND ICE-Rodert Frost

Some say the world will end in fire,

Some say in ice.

From what I've tasted of desire

I hold with those who favor fire.

But if it had to perish twice,

I think I know enough of hate

To say that for destruction ice

Is also great

And would suffice.

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), August 11, 2000.

Gilda,

I agree with you 100%! By dying in his own vomit Jim Morrison was making a poetic statement for the ages. I hope all young people follow his example and O.D. on drugs too.

Chicken Little, what WERE you thinking of when you posted?!?

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), August 11, 2000.