Bobby is slowly but surley getting rid of the dross that has accumulated over the years, if only he could get rid of hamiliton!"!!Karelse in talks over Turk move by Alan Oliver KEEPER John Karelse is poised to end his unhappy spell with Newcastle United and move to Turkish club Denizlyspor.

The Dutchman is currently on trial with the Turks and is discussing personal terms after featuring in two matches for them.

And the total of United players moving out in the close season could move to eight with midfielder Garry Brady having a trial at First Division Barnsley.

United are obviously hoping Denizlyspor will cough up some cash for Karelse but are not holding their breath at clawing in all of the #750,000 that Ruud Gullit paid Dutch club NAC Breda in his last panic buy for the club.

Chasing

Karelse's goalkeeping colleague Lionel Perez, along with Alessandro Pistone, Silvio Maric, Stuart Elliott, Temuri Ketsbaia and Paul Robinson, have all moved on from St James's Park in the summer and there are still more players Bobby Robson is prepared to let go, including foreign defenders Marcelino and Laurent Charvet.

Meanwhile, the race for Duncan Ferguson is really hotting up and it seems inevitable that the former Scottish international will also be leaving United.

As revealed in the Chronicle yesterday, Rangers have joined Everton in being a former employer chasing the big striker.

But like Everton, Rangers will find out that United are not going to be a soft touch in any negotiations.

Two years ago, the Scottish giants signed Stephane Guivarc'h - but only after Freddie Shepherd had got back the #4.5 million United paid Auxerre for the French striker.

Across in Spain, central defender Helder now says he is ready to stay with Deportivo La Coruna.

The Angolan-born defender said: "Deportivo are in the Champions' League and there will be plenty of opportunities for me to get into the side."

However, I understand that the Portuguese international is still keen on a return to St James's Park.

-- Anonymous, August 08, 2000

Answers

Actually, Karelse's game against Arsenal last season was one of the best goalkeeping displays I've seen...whether that ball was over the line or not.

-- Anonymous, August 08, 2000

One game doesnt make him good, although I concede he has rarely had a game to shine. Still would like to see the back of him and the rest of the hanger ons, reducing the wage bill in the process!!!

-- Anonymous, August 08, 2000

The story behind Karelse's signing was one of the darker moments in NUFC's history - take my word for it when I say it was shoddy, amateurish and showed up Gullit for being the worst manager in our history (yep, even worse than Kenny).

I feel sorry for the lad, 'cos he never had any real chance with us, being cursed from the outset.

-- Anonymous, August 08, 2000

Bollocks. Harper injured, Given injured and Perez as the only other choice - #600k for an available player (no negotiating and registration niggles with borrowing a player) was the only choice other than seeing Perez between the sticks.

-- Anonymous, August 08, 2000

It's pleasing to see the money coming in for these players. Mid way through last season I didn't hold out much hope for any of these players leaving without us actually losing money!

At least we may start to produce some decent young talent again.

-- Anonymous, August 08, 2000

I have said this before, we have spent what, about 12 million on Cort, Cordone and Bassedas.

We have brought in 8 million on Pistone, Kets, Sylvia and Robbo.

So we have spent 4 million and YBR has been told he has no cash?

Something is a bit whiffy if you ask me!

-- Anonymous, August 08, 2000

Soft lad

Not bollocks. Basically the goal keeping coach was called in and told to fly out immediately and assess Karelse. On returning he reported that he'd only seen him train, and couldn't say anything else about him. Gullit reacted by saying 'f**king sign him' (allegedly), which the gk coach did.

We may have been in urgent need of a keeper, but that scenario doesn't sound like a manager in control or in touch with the game at all.

And don't ask me where I got this from, just take my word as a friend :-)

-- Anonymous, August 08, 2000

Maybe it's to stop other clubs from thinking we're a big money tree and thinking they can get maximum fees for minimal players. About time we've got someone who will spend wisely. though I do believe when Bobby says he's not got a lot ofmoney.

-- Anonymous, August 08, 2000

Bobby, Terry Jennoe left after YBR joined so he's not exactly here to give his side of the story.

My points would be:
1) Someone must have recommended Karelse if a trip was arranged to see him.
2) The reason he would have been signed despite only having been seen in training was that we had no choice - a recommended player was better than none, and certainly better than f**king Perez.
3) The fact that we had to bring in an unknown quantity said a lot less for Dalglish than it did for Gullit: Dalglish allowed Hislop and Srnicek to walk away leaving us with Harper on loan and Given, and then proceeded to sign that utter disgrace Perez. If Perez had a modicum of talent and even a smidgeon of the right attitude then no panic-buying would have been necessary. Sadly, Gullit wasn't in a position to sign a third keeper before he was forced into it because the previous incumbent had bequeathed him an enormous squad full of shit which we are only now beginning to shift, and his priority area was defence, a midfield playmaker and a forward. If it was a case of wanting to buy a keeper for the longterm he'd have wanted something a bit better than 600k end of the market. How anyone can accuse Gullit of being worse than Dalglish under those circumstances is completely beyond me. One was forced to continue wallowing in rubbish because that's what he'd been left with, and the other one willingly ushered all the crap in in the first place.

As you say, take the information as a friend, but reserve the right to use my own judgement as to how I interpret it. On a straight comparison between Karelse and Perez as dodgy keeper signings, Dalglish definitely wins the wooden spoon and would be first to feel my boot up his arse if they were both bent over in front of me.

-- Anonymous, August 08, 2000

Softie mate

Dalglish had gone for a full season by the time of this particular Gullit debacle, and it's not as if RG didn't have the money to do something about proper GK cover in the summer. He would also have had ample time to assess the merits of Lionel and his tragic hairdo. Dags and Gullit between them put the club back in terms of progress, and I'd find some diffilculty in sliding a piece of toilet paper between them on the 'Worst NUFC Manager Ever' (relegation results, team split vs crap signings and dull football) - maybe Dags shades it after all, but only by the margin of dodgy signings.

My point was that Gullit's dealings with the Karelse signing demonstrated a man under pressure, in a job with people he neither liked or respected, and a situation managed very poorly. Signing Karelse was a desperate panic measure - but still beter than Perez :-)

-- Anonymous, August 08, 2000

"Dags and Gullit between them put the club back in terms of progress, and I'd find some difficulty in sliding a piece of toilet paper between them on the 'Worst NUFC Manager Ever'"

I think perhaps we can ALL agree on that - QED.

-- Anonymous, August 08, 2000

I thought Gullit went to Holland to do the deal (Karelse), if I remember right, at the time it was touted that he only went to spend the weekend at home. The reports were that Karelse was the best player in the relegated side.

-- Anonymous, August 08, 2000

>>The Dutchman is currently on trial with the Turks and is discussing personal terms after featuring in two matches for them.

ABSOLUTE B*LL*CKS!!

Karelse was at the training ground today, all day!

-- Anonymous, August 08, 2000

Just put it down to poetic license Steph.
You surely don't expect a Journalist to actually get off his fat @rse and check his facts do you?

-- Anonymous, August 08, 2000

With our goalie injury record, we should hold onto him...

-- Anonymous, August 08, 2000

I thought at the end of last season, keep Karelse for the bench, sell Given and bring in some top young player who'll be happy to work his wasy to the top. I don't think it does Given or Harper any good, or the defence for that matter, to not know who's playing one week to the next. Karelse may not be great but at least he'd be happy to keep the bench warm and give 100% when he played. Kind of like Peggy whatdoyoucallit that Liverpoll signed from Leicester.

-- Anonymous, August 08, 2000

Unless he's had a change of heart, he's the one that wanted to leave last season because he didn't want to wait for Given or Harper to be injured for an opportunity to warm the bench. He still felt himself capable of holding down a regular starting spot somewhere, if not here.

-- Anonymous, August 08, 2000

>>>>>"Dags and Gullit between them put the club back in terms of progress, and I'd find some difficulty in sliding a piece of toilet paper between them on the 'Worst NUFC Manager Ever'" I think perhaps we can ALL agree on that - QED.

Absolutely not. Dags inheritance was a team that was challenging for the title. Gullit's inheritance was the mess that Dags left behind, and which, only now, we are managing to clear. Gullit did little to arrest the decline but at least gave us some games which were worth watching unlike the excrutiating boredom inficted by KD. Our worst manager of all time is TSM by a long long way.

-- Anonymous, August 09, 2000

Dunno Jonno - he's got some competition. How about any of the managers that got us relegated.

-- Anonymous, August 09, 2000

"Dalglish had gone for a full season by the time of this particular Gullit debacle, and it's not as if RG didn't have the money to do something about proper GK cover in the summer."

Goalkeeper cover and defenders and a creative midfielder and another striker? Oh yes, we had money to burn alright, that's why we only managed to sign Dyer after Hamann buggered off, because we clearly had squillions burning a hole in our pocket. Defence was the glaring problem and that's where the money went: Goam looks good, Domi is an asset, we'll never know about Marcelino (but Euro2000 suggested that footballing centre halves will be needed if we get back into Europe), Dumas put in two outstanding performances as sweeper and can hardly be blamed for going somewhere else under the circumstances and YBR himself brought Helder and Gallacher in before addressing the keeper problem (which he also seems to believe involves first shifting Perez!).

"He would also have had ample time to assess the merits of Lionel and his tragic hairdo. "

He did, and decided that when both our keepers got injured that he couldn't wait to sign a proper one but would have to go with whoever was available at an affordable price as Perez was unthinkable.

"Dags and Gullit between them put the club back in terms of progress, and I'd find some diffilculty in sliding a piece of toilet paper between them on the 'Worst NUFC Manager Ever' (relegation results, team split vs crap signings and dull football) - maybe Dags shades it after all, but only by the margin of dodgy signings."

They are neither of them fit to sit in the presence of YBR.

"My point was that Gullit's dealings with the Karelse signing demonstrated a man under pressure, in a job with people he neither liked or respected, and a situation managed very poorly. Signing Karelse was a desperate panic measure - but still beter than Perez :- ) "

Damn right it was better than Perez, and if my word isn't good enough for you on the 'quality' of that bag of shite then notice how YBR played Karelse every time Harper and Given were out, notice how Karelse was the one keeping a clean sheet at Highbury and 'Big John Karelse' who Bobby talks of respectfully as a good man in the wrong job as opposed to Perez who he simply never referred to at all: one of the ways he understands business in that if he can't find a good word for a player he won't say anything. Dalglish eulogised about crap players performing atrociously, Gullit told crap players that they were crap: one simply invited more enterprising managers to offload garbage on us and the other made crap players unsaleable. YBR obviously wins hands down as he manages to sell some of the rubbish (although even he couldn't get a fee for Perez) at a loss, but a sale nonetheless, and does so by at least getting good enough performances out of the carp that they can be sold. You can certainly shake a stick at Gullit for failing to get anything out of players that they weren't prepared to put in for themselves, but the "buying of shit crown" resides firmly on the temples of Kenny Dalglish.

-- Anonymous, August 09, 2000

'Worst NUFC Manager Ever': Bill McGarry or Ossie Ardiles.

discuss.

-- Anonymous, August 10, 2000

Have to go for Ossie, trying to play like Brazil with the players he had under that sort of pressure was suicidal and almost had us relegated to Division 3.

Personally I'd choose Richard Dinnis as our worst manager. Nice bloke way out of his depth only hired due to unprincipled schemeing by the players. Dalglish was awful but I'm inclined think the rot had set in before he took charge.

-- Anonymous, August 10, 2000

if by the rot you mean a team that had lost direction and was ageing then I agree. Don't forget TSM took us to second that season, his buying though completely let him down. I have to say though that I think Gullit knew less about the situation than Dags and appreciated less. I actually thought Dags cared about the club, never thought Gullit cared about anything beyond himself.

-- Anonymous, August 10, 2000