At what point do your voyeuristic tendencies (I know you have them or you wouldn't be here) collide with your sense of decency? When someone is going through a traumatic breakup in a very public fashion over the 'net, do you look away? Do you pull over to watch for blood and gore? Do you take sides? Do you offer advice? Do you assume that if these people really wanted privacy, they'd unplug the damn computer for a few days?

Have you ever been one of the parties involved in one of these public meltdowns? How did you cope? Did the voyeurs hurt or help the situation?

Will Gus's journal be worth reading anymore if he actually does break up with Kim for good?

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2000

Answers

(By the way, that last line was a joke.)

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2000

I admit it, I am Gladys Kravitz and I am addicted to The Gus. It started last week when I happened upon a catfight between Gus and Kim. Kim would post something in the forum, Gus would delete it. This went on all morning. I know, because I kept refreshing the page so I could read the posts before they were deleted. It is like listening to a fight in the next apartment. I know I should turn up the TV so I can't hear anything, but if the neighbors start whispering, I run to the cabinet to get a glass to put on the wall.

-- Anonymous, August 01, 2000

For the record, it should be noted that at one time, particularly the Fall of 1998, people were asking "Will Gus's journal be worth reading anymore if he doesn't break up with Kim for good?" This was the stance taken by The Lowdown, if anyone remembers that. See, for example, http://www.mashoc.com/tld/gus.htm

-- Anonymous, August 01, 2000

hmmm....online relationship meltdowns, you say? haven't the foggiest...

(subtle as a handgrenade in a barrel of oatmeal, as usual..) hehheh

-- Anonymous, August 01, 2000

Hmmm. The author of The Lowdown and Beth both like to talk about whether or not Gus' journal will be worth reading. Hmmmm. Hmmm.

-- Anonymous, August 01, 2000

Mike: well, at least you never posted anything about my "rancid twat" in an online journal. At least, I don't think you did. If you did, I don't want to know about it. And I never called you "God Sobieski" on a message board.

Man, we're boring.

-- Anonymous, August 01, 2000

Yes, the implosion of Gus's relationship with Kim has been truly fascinating. I hate to admit that I've been following it as avidly as I have, but...well...it's just too bizarre to ignore.

I think the secret squirrel element of the encripted source code entries is really what appeals to me. I could not imagine doing something like that myself, but it sure does take it to a different level.

I'm a bit skeptical though. Why on earth would anyone want to broadcast the death of their relationship? Break ups are so painful, how can playing it out in front of an audience not make it worse?

-- Anonymous, August 01, 2000

My impression was that Gus felt so isolated, he felt like he had to reach out to his readers when the relationship was going badly just to ensure his sanity. His way of doing this was through the message boards.

Of course Kim didn't like being slagged off on the message boards (and people really did say some awfully nasty stuff about her), so she felt compelled to respond.

So yes, as anyone who's been following Gus's message board probably knows, I avidly followed the whole story. I don't feel like I picked sides, but Kim obviously disagreed.

And yes, I do think the journal will still be worth reading...and anyway, I suspect that we'll be hearing from Kim again.

-- Anonymous, August 01, 2000

The filtering software here at work sometimes keeps me from getting to Gus' journal (imagine that) so I've lost track of this saga, unfortunately. I figure that Gus is just the kind of guy who lives his whole life in public & this is just one more thing that's happening to him. He posted all the stuff about getting fired which is just as humiliating, to me.

I never reach a point where I can't look. I figure if they want privacy, they won't put it on the web. I don't offer advice. I might send email of the "I'm sorry things are going badly for you" type without taking sides.

I'm not an online journaler but I've certainly been in breakups where everyone I knew took sides and gave unsolicited advice, usually to serve their own biases. It didn't help, but then not much would.

-- Anonymous, August 01, 2000

My voyeuristic tendencies want to know how Jennicam stole her friend's boyfriend! It seems that everyone knows about it and has been hinting at it, but where is the story told? Her journal entries are cryptic (and a little fruity)...I can't tell what happened there. But I sure can see her big naked boyfriend every time I check out her cam! Ew!

God, I embarrass myself sometimes. I need to find a new hobby.

Amy

-- Anonymous, August 01, 2000

The National Post of Canada has a detailed story about the whole Jennicam incident.

I am a huge snoop, so I love to read the online meltdowns. I only feel guilty about it if one of the people involved does not have the opportunity to post his or her side of the story. It makes me uncomfortable when a journaller trashes his or her SO, and we don't get to hear the other side. I don't mean things like, "So-and-so didn't take out the garbage." I mean things like, "So-and-so is an asshole." That doesn't mean I stop reading. But I do feel a twinge of guilt in those situations, for whatever reason.

-- Anonymous, August 01, 2000

Instead of starting a new thread I guess this ques. is appropriate here. I am interested why Beth you think Jenni of Jenni Cam is a "loon" now. I noticed that on your log today, and have too watched with morbid fascination the latest drama at Jenni's.

Is it because she is certain she is in love with a man she met a couple of weeks ago, and is now living with him and claiming he is her soul mate? Or the way it came about--her friends with his long- time girlfriend. Or both, or something else?

Any one else have an opinion?

-- Anonymous, August 01, 2000

i'm not sure if this is considered an online meltdown...

www.latitude11.com/marry

-- Anonymous, August 01, 2000

Karen - the best friend whose fiance was stolen in the Jennicam fiasco is Courtney, who just posted above me...court, is this ok if I answer this? (courtney is one of my best online friends and she's sick of talking about it)

Jenni is now considered a loon/bitch/evil whore by a large portion of the webcam world because of what she did to Courtney and the manner in which she did it. She has completely refused to take any responsibility for her actions, to the point of not even addressing that there is a teeny weeny flaw in her new out-of-this-world love connection. In her world, love is the only thing that matters, and screw anyone who could be hurt in the process. Yes, the fact that she has the name of a man she's been with for "20 days" tattooed on her hand contributes to the loony label, but most people have a problem with her outright cruelty.

For the record, it's not the first time she's done something like this. Her last relationship was with a guy who had a girlfriend and the girl actually called while he and Jenni were having sex. People are finally getting the loud and clear message that Jenni has a near- sociopathic lack of concern for others, and it's pretty disturbing.

Courtney was briefly hospitalized the day that Dex and Jenni revealed their "love", and neither of them even tried to find out how she was doing. While she was still in the hospital, Jenni posted her first gross journal entry about the whole thing (never mentioning courtney), and had sex on cam with Dex.

If there is any good that has come out of the whole situation, it is that lots of people have been able to see what a good and strong person Courtney is. She has handled a nightmarish course of events with grace and kindness, never stooping to biterness or hurtful words in a situation where most would agree that she would be more than justified in doing so. Courtney is the victim in this, but all of us who know her are 100% sure that she will come through it beautifully because of her strong personality.

-- Anonymous, August 01, 2000

Kaela, Thanks for answering my ques. I have been to Jenni's site on and off and even though I don't know her personally, I believe sociopathic is a very accurate discription in terms of not only her relationships but when reading her journal you get a very eerie feeling that she is completely self-absorbed. She also seems to have boderline personality tendencies. Of course, again I don't know her personally just a hunch, but nurses get pretty good with their hunches, esp. when it comes to people.

-- Anonymous, August 01, 2000

This all makes me weirdly pleased that I'm not having an intimate relationship of any kind, much less one that I would broadcast online. Urrrrrgh.

I'd much rather write about the animal stuck in my ventilation system or my hunt for a chair low enough to use with my old desk.

Suddenly everyone's puppy and cat stories are a whole lot more appealing.

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2000

Jette....

trust me.. i'd *rather* be reading about your stories then this.

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2000

Okay - I've gotta ask: Why is it that when these sorts of things happen, it's always the other woman who gets slammed as evil and psychotic and rarely - oh so very rarely - is the man even mentioned?

Do you think that this guy was bewitched or something? Or that Jenni bribed him with instant webcam fame? Cause it sure sounds as though he managed to find his way to Jenni quite well on his own, despite his claims of undying love for his fiance, which tells me that he's the psycho and not even a second should be wasted mourning his going.

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2000

I don't think anyone is mourning him, Gabby. But since he's not the one going on the web spewing seventh grade crap about soulmates with nary a word about the friend he screwed over, Jenni is attracting more of the attention right now.

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2000

Well, while I think Jenni is a bitchtroll of the first order, I'm far far more concerned about the crimes she's committing against prose with the stuff she's writing ... the most sappy, pathetic crap I've ever read. A 16 year old in the throes of her first crush would hesitate to put her name to the sickly-sweet and deranged sentiments Jenni's favouring.

And I love the finger tattoos of each other's names? Pammy and Tommy much? Says it all, really.

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2000

Well... if he's having sex on Jenni's cam for his fiance to watch, I'd say that makes him a participant in the spewage of the details, no?

Gabby, I think the reason the woman is painted as the villain and the guy is painted as the poor dumb bastard who just went along is because sometimes the guy is willing to let the woman in question be the mouth while he plays stupid. It's a shame that others let themselves be led by that diversionary tactic, but they do. I don't hold that that means he's not equally responsible and, when it's warranted, equally repugnant. Bottom line: the person IN the relationship that is being busted up is most responsible, since they made the commitment in the first place.

I can think of at least one journal version of this that played out a few months back. In the end, I felt sorry and repelled by both woman, but I thought the guy - the most silent of the three - was a total freaking asshole with no balls.

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2000

If you're talking about the meltdown I'm thinking of, Lynda, I completely agree about the guy. And I agree about Dex. I don't think anyone is defending him. I haven't heard anyone call him a big doofus who just followed innocently where his dick led him.

I think it all comes down to Jenni's celebrity. If *he* were the famous cam guy and she were just another cam guy's fiancee, he'd be the one getting the attention -- especially if he wrote crap like this:

When he speaks, it's as though he's talking for my own heart. For the first time I've met somebody who not only understands what I say, which is uncommon enough, but he feels the same way. It is literally as though we share the same soul. I am dumbfounded.

Doesn't it just make your teeth itch?

Anyone want to start a pool on how long it takes for them to start seriously regretting those tattoos?

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2000

Well... yea, there's that. I think anyone whose been online longer than 10 minutes that seriously uses the word 'soulmate' should be stuffed into a deep hole where they can't hurt themselves.

I have an advantage here... I always thought Jenni was a nut.

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2000

Word, Lynda B.

It would be cool if the whole thing was an act. I don't know anything about jenni or her cam, but it would be hilarious if she, Courtney, and Dex had set the whole thing up for publicity.

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2000

Though we disagree on many things, Katrina and I are soulmates. I'm going to my hole now where I will ponder why being online more than ten minutes precludes the use of the word soulmates, whereas being online less than ten minutes doesn't. With thoughts like this, I wonder if any hole will be deep enough to save me from hurting myself.

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2000

Anyone want to start a pool on how long it takes for them to start seriously regretting those tattoos?

I'll put a confident #5 on 60 days.

They got these after less than 20 days of togetherness ... I wouldn't even be changing my weekend plans at that stage of the relationship. But maybe I just don't understand romance.

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2000

Well, I was up all night thus the previous ques. to Beth about Jenni of JenniCam. I ended up reading a few articles on the Jenni/Dex relationship and came across the very graphic um, well sexual content of Jenni's site since her and Dex came together and an interesting suggestion was made that this is a ploy on Jenni's part to boost her sagging popularity.

It sounds far fetched but evidently she had mentioned just before this relationship that she was 20,000 dollars in debt, and it appears she is solely supported by her site. Her popularity was also way down and I guess her site has been more popular in the past when she has had boyfriends, and sex on cam.

So, I wonder if at least somewhere in her mind she realized that this relationship would cause all this attention, thus boosting her popularity even if it was negative esp. since she is financially dependent on her site.

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2000

Jim, there's a major difference between you and Katrina and the proliferation of online folks who, on the basis of a 5 minute conversation online consisting primarily of "R U M or F" and "So what are you wearing" suddenly declare themselves to be soulmates, throw off their existing (less fantasy-based) SOs to head off for the cyber- horizons of sexual bliss - at least until the first time you discover that offline they still have morning breath and bedfarts.

If you hang out 10 minutes online and have half a brain, you've had adequate time to figure out what's wrong with that picture.

The word 'soulmate' was used prior to the Internet, but not nearly as frequently, nor as cheaply.

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2000

Ah, but Lynda, you forget that Katrina and I met online, knew each other in person less than a week, and I moved clear across country to be with her. True enough, however, neither of us were attached to any other relationships, but that's a problem not with soulmates or romance, but with lack of character, and can happen just as easily in the flesh as online. In fact, if I've got this Jennicam debacle right, they're next door neighbors or somesuch, meaning this isn't an internet thing, except that it has been played out online.

I don't know. I guess I don't feel romance, even sickly sweet romance, should be kicked when the real problems are excessive exhibitionism and low morality.

And, yes, soulmate is overused, but so is love. But also so is cynicism. It usually comes down to how your present or most recent relationship is/has been going as to how much you can "stomach" someone else being in love.

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2000

Bingo on the lack of character Jim. And if the word were used less often and with more meaning you wouldn't find people gagging on it. But, there've been too many people who have used the word to mean "I know I'm not supposed to be doing this, but I want to, but I don't want anyone to think I'm the bad guy, so...uh...we're SOULMATES! it's our DESTINY!!"

Don't point at those of us who've sat and watched it, listened to otherwise bright friends spout it, some dealt with the fall out from it - the people who've 'killed the romance' are the ones who absconded with your word.

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2000

Well, love is work, like anything else worthwhile, and responsible love is best, and irresponsible love rarely works, and "soulmates" is no excuse for betrayal and cruelty, even if there's a profit margin to consider.

So you're right, of course, except... bedfarts? Say it ain't so, Lynda.

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2000

If you don't know where Jenni is coming from (assuming it isn't just a charade), it's your loss.

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2000

Not to keep harping on being Courtney's friend here, but I know her very well and I can assure you: This is NOT a charade, publicity stunt, or hoax of any kind. These are real people and the hurt involved is very real as well.

No one thinks more than me that Dex is utter slime, but you have to remember, Courtney loved him and expected to spend the rest of her life with him. Excessive Dex-bashing is only going to reflect badly on Courtney and that's the last thing that should happen.

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2000

Damn, I wish I could watch this at work. It's fascinating.

I'm also wondering how an adult male could be "stolen" by someone. Yean, this isn't the way to break up with someone, but if there's guilt, it's equally Jenni & Dex's.

But I do believe soulmates & all that can be real. Who knows? Stranger things have happened.

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2000

Dave Van, I know what tempation is, but I don't even want to imagine myself stabbing a friend in the back.

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2000

Dave Van...

Yes.. you're right.. I have no idea where jenni is coming from... and yes it is my loss.

Your worldliness escapes me..

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2000

Kaela wrote: "Excessive Dex-bashing is only going to reflect badly on Courtney and that's the last thing that should happen"

I'm sorry, but - no. She's not the first woman - and certainly not the last - who was duped and dumped by a guy. Courtney is not responsible for the fact that the man she loved ended up being a complete ass. I don't think less of any woman based on the end of a relationship and I find the suggestion that anyone else could or would to be absurd and fairly insulting to Courtney.

I was 20, I was crazy about my boyfriend, I was lied to, I was betrayed by him and my friend, it was just too much to handle, I shut down.

I was an idiot.

I should have been having "Woohoo! He's gone!" parties. But no, because I was still clinging to the lies, to the false belief that anything about our relationship was real and authentic. I needed that (false) comfort. I thought that it was about me. It was never about me - ever. It was about him, always, from the start. Everything I believed in was wrong, a hoax. It took way too long to get over, so comfortable I was in all those lies and illusions.

I'm telling you: you've got to let it all go. Walk away. Do it now.

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2000

I didn't mean that it's Courtney's fault that Dex is an ass, or that people should think less of her because of it. But plenty of people have insinuated that she should have somehow known what was going to happen and is therefore stupid because she didn't see it. Which is total bullshit, because no one should ever have to suspect the person they love of such wrongdoing.

I was also considering Courtney's statement that "The bad comments about him bother me.. only because that is a man I was once intimate with. He's not the man I knew." It hurts her feelings. 'nuff said.

-- Anonymous, August 03, 2000

WHY is Jenni psycho? WHY, you ask? Because she got a tattoo on her hand of the name of a guy she has been "in love with" for TWENTY DAYS!

I've been contemplating a tattoo -- not the name of my lover, mind you, just a regular old tattoo -- for over two years now, trying to decide if I really want something that permanent on my skin. And she tattoos SOME GUY'S NAME WHO SHE JUST MET on her HAND? You know, when the whole thing falls apart in a year, that's not going to wash off so easy.

I'm just saying.

-- Anonymous, August 03, 2000

Gwen, courtney: no, no, I was addressing Jackie's and Beth's complaints about "the crimes she's committing against prose with the stuff she's writing."

As far as I'm concerned that's normal for when you're head over heals in love.

-- Anonymous, August 03, 2000

a clarification: When I said people have been insinuating that courtney is stupid/should have seen it coming, I didn't mean people here, I meant the zillion other forums and bbs's that this has been hashed out upon over the last 3 weeks (courtney's bbs, the jennicam forum, jenni's newsgroup, and anacam's forum to name a few).

no more posts from me when i should be in bed.

-- Anonymous, August 03, 2000

As far as tattoos on your hands go, I think that *is* crazy. I don't want to get involved in the whole thing of trying to analyse relationships as to whether people are soulmates or not, because ultimately I think it's a personal judgement. We may disagree with it, sure - personally, I think Jenni is going about things completely the wrong way - but we don't have to live with it.

But tattooing the guy's name on her hand? That really does sound strange. As far as the outward sign of a relationship goes, it's way more permanent than any wedding ring. And after twenty days? I think she's crazy. If he left her best friend to be with her, then what's making her so sure that he won't move on again with just as little hesitation? (Apart, I mean, from the fact that he's got her name emblazoned across his hand. Maybe THAT'S why she did it...?)

-- Anonymous, August 03, 2000

Salon has an article about the Je nnicam affair.

-- Anonymous, August 06, 2000

Has anyone watched Jennicam lately? What is going on? My goodness.

-- Anonymous, August 11, 2000

I don't watch Jenni, but if you really want to see some people melting down, go here.

-- Anonymous, August 11, 2000

The "forum" on Ceej's Black Book, where she and her husband duke it out. He's a horror; she's just inexplicable. The entire thing's creepy and unhealthy and fascinating.

-- Anonymous, August 11, 2000

I have to wonder if Danna of Bobofett isn't headed for a meltdown at work when someone at her office discovers her web page. I find her journal to be wonderful, I hope her co-workers feel the same way.

-- Anonymous, August 11, 2000

Who cares what her co-workers think? They're assholes.

I read Ceej's forums too. I like Ceej and wish her the best, but her husband scares me. He seems kind of controlling.

-- Anonymous, August 11, 2000

Controlling, hell. He seems like a psycho. And he always has.

-- Anonymous, August 11, 2000

At what point do your voyeuristic tendencies (I know you have them or you wouldn't be here) collide with your sense of decency?

Oddly enough, Ceej's journal is the only one. David is the only person I have ever recognized from a non-internet connection. I don't actually know him, and I won't say how I know of him; but even that slight jolt of recognition from a peripheral real life causes me to feel terribly voyeuristic. I very, very seldom check out Ceej's journal for that reason.

-- Anonymous, August 11, 2000

I just reread what I wrote about Ceej's husband, and it sounds pretty harsh. So I'll add this: it has occurred to me at times that he may be deliberately trying to appear to be a psycho, because it amuses him to have people think that. I don't live in their house, so I don't know what the man is like.

-- Anonymous, August 11, 2000

Who cares what her co-workers think? They're assholes

She has to spend 8 hours a day with them, and I can't see that it will be much easier for her if and when they read her journal.

I hope I'm wrong.

I agree that Ceej's forum can be a creepy place sometimes.

-- Anonymous, August 12, 2000

I've had the same thoughts about Dana's coworkers, Jim. But since I like Dana, if and when that trainwreck happens, I'm not going to enjoy watching it.

Tragically, Jeremy will not consent to fight with me on this board, so my forum is much less interesting than Ceej's. Or Gus's. Gus'. The forum of the Gus.

I hereby propose that Gus immediately change his name to Gussage, so I know how to work the damn possessive. Gussage's forum. See how easy that was?

-- Anonymous, August 12, 2000

To tell you the truth, the only person I care about seeing the journal is BS. It being discovered by one of the lab fucknuts might present them with a clue by holding the mirror of their behaivor up to their faces. Then again, they ARE all absolutely perfect.

I'd care about BS seeing it because I'd really not want to hurt her feelings that way, as horrible as she can be and has been to me.

Whatever. I'd like to think it won't happen.

-- Anonymous, August 12, 2000

I would like to point out that the current screen shot at JenniCam indicates that Jenni is PLANNING. TO. TAKE. THE. CAM. TO. DEX'S. GRANDMOTHER'S. FUNERAL (MEMORIAL?). SERVICE.

If I didn't agree she was a loon before (but believe me, I did), this does it. WHAT A NUT CASE.

-- Anonymous, August 17, 2000

No. No, she didn't mean that, did she? No. She couldn't. Maybe she just means the cam will be set up at the new house soon? Maybe?

Man. Take the cam to a FUNERAL? Damn.

-- Anonymous, August 17, 2000