The jury in the Hillsborough private prosecution was dismissed today. It is over 11 years since the tragic events of Hillsborough. The former superintendent in the case, Bernard Murray was found not guilty last week. Now the former chief superintendent David Duckenfield must wait to see whether the families of those killed (or their legal representatives) decide to press for a re-trial.

Surely there is little sence in persuing this through the courts. IMHO, it is not individuals who were likely only following age-old practices who were to blame for this tragedy but the system, and with the Taylor Report having changed the face of British soccer safety, I believe it is time to draw a line under this case.

-- Anonymous, July 24, 2000

Answers

I tend to agree with you Screacher, but there well could be 96 families who don't.
I just feel it's wrong that our legal system can allow this kind of thing to hang over peoples heads for such an incredibly long time. Surely 'justice' shouldn't be allowed to take 11 years to be decided - and even now be indeterminate?

-- Anonymous, July 24, 2000

Clarky - don't get me wrong. I have enormous sympathy for the faniles involved. I remember crying my eyes out that afternoon when the news filtered through. But what benefit will it have? Surely the main thing is that lessons have been learned.

I'm sure nobody did anything with the intent to injure people. Hell, just put yourself in the position of those in charge (not you directly you understand). What would you have done faced with similiar circumstances? I bet many would have opened the gates to relieve the pressure.

At least the Taylor Report came to conclusions fairly early on. Despite enormous sympathies with the families, what good will it do to prolong this whole episode? The memory will live on and the changes made as a direct result are a testament to their sacrifice.

-- Anonymous, July 24, 2000

Eleven years ago, shocking, i remember the day like it was yesterday. Have to agree with both of yez on this one. It is a shame that it has taken so long for this thing to come to the fore. Are the families looking for money ? what are they looking for exactly just some closure, what? Not much coverage over here. These two men cannot possibly be held responsible for the deaths of the people inside the ground. How many more would have died if they hadn't done what they had been ordered to do. Anyone seen the liverpool site on this I would be interested to find out the underlying feelings going on over there about this. The establishment and heirachy of British football has come so far since this tragedy and to think that this thing is still going on surprises me no end.

-- Anonymous, July 24, 2000

Probably get flamed for this but.... I think it's about time that the Liverpool fans who arrived late and drunk took some of the responsibility for what happened.

-- Anonymous, July 24, 2000

Screacher man - I'm agreeing with you! I think it's a ludicrous failure of our decrepid legal system that a case such as this case can drag on for 11 years.
No one can have anything but continuing sympathy for the innocent lives that were so horribly lost, but the continuing stress being occasioned to those, who I'm quite sure were doing their damnedest to minimise the problem, won't bring them back.

Surely, the worst 'crime' the police could possibly be held accountable for is incompetence? I'm sure these guys have already suffered immeasurably - firstly because of their involvement in the tragedy that caused the deaths, and secondly through being under suspicion and investigation for 11 long years.

It's high time this was ended: enough is enough.

-- Anonymous, July 24, 2000

Or lied and claimed that the Liverpool fans had forced the gate and caused the most evil press campaign ever. Read Phil Scratton's book on the subject .... a tale of evidence that was tampered with, of old boys pulling together, you name it.

-- Anonymous, July 24, 2000

I knew a policeman who was working thgat day and he said that some fans had been crushed to death outside the ground whch was why the gates were opened. He also said that it was the worst day of his life as you could imagine.

-- Anonymous, July 24, 2000

As I understand it the families of the 96 are convinced the South Yorkshire Police Force made a number of serious errors of judgement that contributed significantly to the disaster. Others here are better qualified to comment on the legal side but 'incompetence' and 'criminal negligence' are closely related. They must have some sort of case as they (aided by the Jimmy McGovern drama) helped persuade a home secretary, not noted for questioning the views of the police, into ordering a re-trial. Like every football fan a cold shudder went through me that day as it could just so easily have been us. Those that died deserve the truth and their families justice. Had it been 96 Geordies I'm not sure we'd be so keen to 'draw a line'.

-- Anonymous, July 25, 2000

Geordie The truth that dare not speak its name. It was so soon after Heysel. Is there any coincidence in Liverpool being involved twice.

It was awful and it could have happened at any ground, with any bunch of supporters. How many times was I involved in potentially horrifying crushes as a young lad pinned against the wall at the end of the game etc. But...I don't see how you can really blame the policemen, it was the whole system at fault. Is it just the need to bloame someone that spurs people on to find a guilty person?

-- Anonymous, July 25, 2000

Of course they deserve the truth - if it can be found. However, I don't think a private prosecution for manslaughter is the way to go about it. And after 11 years, it is likely that many memories will have faded or some of the witnesses no longer with us.

-- Anonymous, July 25, 2000

I agree 100% that a prosecution for manslaughter is not the way to deal with this issue.

As with so many tragedies, the public, and especially the tabloids have to find a scapegoat, a target they can vilify in some self- righteous manner. What purpose is served? The net result is that after such a tragedy, the various organisations and individuals go to the nth degree to cover their own arses and the truth is concealed instead of coming out into the open. As for the bereaved, no amount of punishment heaped upon the "guilty" if they can be found, will bring back a single loved one, nor lessen the pain of their loss.

I was very impressed by the Truth & Reconciliation Commision in South Africa. Surely this is the way to proceed in these matters? Let those who may have made mistakes at the time, come forward and "confess". Let's get at the TRUTH without looking to destroy the lives of yet more people from the tragedy concerned. Once the truth is revealed this puts the authorities in a more informed position to ensure that the tragedy is not repeated.

-- Anonymous, July 25, 2000

It doesn't matter that this incident occured in a football match. Any event with large numbers of people need to be organised with safety as a priority to avoid tragedies like Hillsborough or Ladbroke Grove. Clearly safety wasn't a consideration, and for high ranking police officers to shrug their shoulders and deny any responsibility for their actions makes me angry. The fact that a deliberate cover-up and delay in reaching even this level of examination happened is even worse.

You can't draw a line under this.

The Truth & Reconciliation Commission in SA has no bearing whatsoever in this case, and no matter how sorry those policemen may be now, the positions they held had responsibility and they should be held to account for their actions that led to the death of so many people.

Add to this the responsibilities of the football clubs with their fencing in of fans and surely corporate manslaughter would be the least of the charges.

-- Anonymous, July 25, 2000

Duckenfield should never have been given the job of commanding the match as he had no experience. However, he had no earthly reason to lie about what happened. Or to have solicitors change the statements of the police officers who were there that day.

-- Anonymous, July 25, 2000

How much responsibility should Sheff Wed have had to bear for having a ground designed in such a way that a tragedy like that could happen ? It seems to me that the blame may have been laid initially on the wrong people, but having been accused, the police were totally and absolutely out of order to try to doctor evidence.

The good it'll do the people who suffered, to continue the case against an individual copper, might be debatable, but if that copper was even indirectly involved in doctoring evidence, he should feel the full weight of the law, even if it's just to make an example of him.

It sometimes looks deliberate for cases to drag on forever, in the hope that the plaintiffs will lose interest, or run out of finance, so the defense win by default, but what can you expect from a system that can jail a person for a breach of the official secrets act, when the information is freely available in another country.

-- Anonymous, July 25, 2000

GEORDIE

I swear to God..you post that on a Liverpool bbs and they'll string you up.......no matter how correct you are :-)

WATPOAE

-- Anonymous, July 25, 2000

Hi LR. Been on holiday or summat?

-- Anonymous, July 25, 2000

Hello Geordie...funnily enough I have....went to Sweden of all places...but that ain'tthe reason I've been quiet. I've been hibernating...getting me reserves up and running ..ready to hammer into you lot when the season starts!! :-)

Stand by stand by.........

Anyway...like I said....the Hillbro' debate has been running on Anfield.con for 10 nodd years....yet they don't want to cknowledge the fact..FACT that may fans were late...many fans were pushing...many fans were pissed. It ALL contributed to the death of 96 folk. I'm with you and Screach on this...it ain't down to two men..can it and draw a line under it.

regards

LR

-- Anonymous, July 25, 2000

Nope. I've been there myself... arriving late from the pub and crushing in at the back. Could have been me to blame, could have been me as a victim. Not one or two individuals to blame. We've all learned from the tragedy. Let's move on.

-- Anonymous, July 25, 2000

LR, Part of me agrees that it is unseemly and can't be helpful to be raking this up from the point of view of anyone involved in the tragedy at the time. However, there were so many legal, political, media, evidential lapses, that there is a duty to find out how there could be such institutional lying and arse-covering. You're right that the pushing didn't help but neither did the 80's focus on crowd control rather than crowd safety or the fact that Sheff Weds had been asked by various police constables to do something about overcrowding at the Leppings Lane End as it got perilous for the average league game, let alone a Cupo semi.

-- Anonymous, July 25, 2000

The police role was crowd control. Failed in that. It was typical of the time though, and S Yorkshire police were no worse than West Midlands.

The fans were not orderly, some were drunk. That is not blameless for many of them. Although absolutely not a reason to die. Also endemic of the period. Who remembers singing 'how man, hey man' as the crowd surged.

Completely different from Heysel. At Heysel a ground not fir fr purpose fell apart when fans unacceptably acted. Who is to blame if a 15 year old kid drives a borrowed car with faulty brakes and kills someone ?

-- Anonymous, July 25, 2000

Isn't hidnsight the most wonderful of tools!

-- Anonymous, July 25, 2000

That of course should have said - hindsight.

-- Anonymous, July 25, 2000