I have a rather silly question: I am overrun with Muscovy ducks right now and need to dispose of some ASAP. There is a guy who will buy them and take them to an auction. This buyer has told me at this auction the Vietnamese people buy the ducks to use for a religious ceremony. My basic question is does anyone know if they slaughter the ducks humanely? I have no problem with the ducks going for meat, just want to be sure it's a quick death. Thanks to anyone who can help me out with this.

-- Lenette Stroebel (kigervixen@webtv.net), July 20, 2000

Answers

I know this about Asian food preferences: when they buy live dogs and cats from street markets, the animals are hung and slowly strangled, while being beaten and tortured in front of the buyer & the rest of the crowd. This is because the dog & cat eaters believe that the adreneline that surges through the animals' bodies during this treatment will make the meat more tender. The beating also serves to tenderize the meat...while the animal is still alive. I don't know if ducks or other animals are treated the same way. Sorry to be graphic, but these are the facts. And THEY ARE facts, this is not some goofy rumor being spread to upset people. Anyone needing more information or documentation can contact me. There is a movement underway to try to get Asian governments to do something about this.

-- Shannon (Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary) (gratacres@aol.com), July 21, 2000.

This should be stopped ! I do eat meat and will continue , but one of the many reasons I want to raise my own is to know how they are treated and butchered .They have a wonderful life here , the get snacks 2x a day {donuts, apples all types of stuff} They are never beaten ,pats on the head instead .And when the day comes , it one well place bullet and they never know what hit them .I wish all animals where treated as well as ours .Sometimes I think on a day to day basis the have it better than some people.

-- Patty Gamble (fodfarms@slic.com), July 21, 2000.

Lenette, Put an ad in the Big Nickel or whatever local sale paper you have there. I know there are a lot of people who would buy the ducks to raise or for insect control, or for their pond. Sure hate for any of God's creatures to be treated like that(beaten,strangled etc) karen

-- Karen Mauk (dairygoatmama@hotmail.com), July 21, 2000.

Thanks for all the quick responses. I had remembered seeing something on TV some time ago about dogs being strangled and beaten, and I don't want that to happen to my ducks! Or any other animal. I will say no to this buyer, and try to sell my ducks elsewhere. (I may be paying someone to take them soon, just had another hen hatch out 18 ducklings yesterday, LOL!!)

-- Lenette Stroebel (kigervixen@webtv.net), July 21, 2000.

We allow the folks from Houston to butcher the goats they purchase at our place, I actually prefer this since I know the animal was truly butchered and not kept. I have never had anyone Mexican, Iranian, Vietnamese, African American, West Indies, Muslem, do anything which even remotely was inhumane to my animals. Yes some of them had ways of butchering that were foreign to us, we lop off the head with a machete instead of wasting bullets. We have seen them slitting throats to bleed them, or inserting a long knife into the throat up into the brain. I will not allow them to hang a kid up before it is killed, though this is common practice in the West Indies. Just because we don't understand someones way of doing things doesn't make them wrong or barbaric. I talk openly with my customers about what I will and won't tolerate. But if you are going to sell to a third party or auction barn you have no control over this. If you are going to let your animals breed, and have excess animals you don't use personally, your two choices are to kill them yourself or sell them. If you don't like the later choice than don't breed your stock. I don't believe alot of what I hear on the internet and this beating of the animal before death makes no logical sense, it would destroy the meat, causing bruising and pooling of blood. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), July 21, 2000.

I agree with Vicky. If you want complete control of their demise, do it yourself. And when you say "Asia", that covers a lot of ground. I know the Indian subcontinent very well, and NOBODY tortures animals to "enhance" their flavour. In fact, in Islam, torturing animals at all is strictly forbidden. (Which is not to say there aren't people who beat their donkeys, but no more than here.) Sell to someone from Pakistan or India or Sri Lanka or Bangladesh, or the Middle East for that matter, if you want to be sure. I have travelled all over Asia -- though not to Vietnam -- but I have never seen any such spectacle in any market anywhere. I think it is just more of the demonization of the Other, the Them, the Not Us. Seems to me you need to eat more eggs.

-- snoozy (allen@oz.net), July 21, 2000.

At one time I sold many Muscovy Ducks to Asain Indians. I had an area set up with running water, killing cones, ice and plastic bags for the Asian Indians to prosses their purchases. I never witnessd any thing inhumane and would not have tolerated it if I had. Some of them did things that we might find odd but far from inhumane. I also sold quite a few goats and sheep and never had any problems.

I use to have a contract to remove Muscovy Ducks that people abandoned at Town lakes and Golf Courses, they paid me $2.00 a duck to get rid of them. Well then some Do-Gooders found out I was selling them to people to eat and raised holly hell, I guess that they thought I wanted a couple hundred ducks as pets! So then they had some "Animal Rescue" people remove them and after a while they had too many to care for and ran out of space and food. They lost a bunch to predators and disease. I guess cramp cages and starvation was better than being Eaten!

Go ahead and sell them to someone who will put them to good use or butcher a few for yourself they are good eat'in, a lot less fat than most ducks.

-- Mark (deadgoatman@webtv.net), July 21, 2000.

Korea is the place where dog & cat eating is most popular. The belief that beating & strangling produces tastier meat is hard for me to understand, too, but then again we're talking about a culture that also believes that eating tiger or rhino penises will improve male virility. I don't think that logic (as we Americans understand it) plays a big part in their customs. I wonder if they find that eating the animal immediately after the killing prevents the toughness that you would normally find in the meat of an animal that has been beaten or otherwise traumatized.

-- Shannon (Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary) (gratacres@aol.com), July 22, 2000.

Lynette, where are you? I have a friend that would be more than happy to add some ducks to her pond. She doesn't really want to go through raising them from babies so she hasn't gotten any. We could probably take some of them off your hands if you are within driving distance.

-- Colleen (pyramidgreatdanes@erols.com), July 22, 2000.

Since I've had several people write me, willing to take my ducks if I was within a reasonable driving distance, I thought I'd post my location. I am in central Oregon. If anyone is close enough to come get them, they are welcome to them. I might add I don't normally let things get out of hand like this, I was seriously ill for some time and then had surgery recently. Since our ducks have the run of the place, I wasn't able to get out and find all the eggs. Normally I don't allow more than a dozen or so ducklings per year, and I can dispose of them easily enough. Regarding the cultural issue, I am NOT trying to bash any group or religion. I had watched a tv program that had a VIDEO of a dog being hung and beaten to death before being eaten. It was not a rumor. I just couldn't remember which nationality the man was who did this, and when my prospective duck buyer mentioned that the Vietnamese who buy ducks here use them for a "religious ceremony", it certainly made me recall the incident on the videotape. One additional note for those who aren't familiar with Muscovies. While they would probably enjoy being near a pond, they have a tendency to drown if in water for very long, particularly the males. They are STRANGE ducks.

-- Lenette Stroebel (kigervixen@wetv.net), July 22, 2000.

I'll start with saying that every culture has their peculuarities and don't be too quick to judge. I saw a Vietnamese man pluck and then tie the feet of a duck. It then was placed in the sun and prodded by the kids to keep it there for two days. Then it's throat was slit and every drop of blood was saved to make a delicious sauce or gravy or whatever. Just remember that the peoples of the world are greatly different and just because someone does things different from us doesn't make it wrong.

-- Don Cothern (hihilldon@yahoo.com), July 22, 2000.

Don, Your post made me think....... I just can't believe that torture of an animal can enhance the flavor. Maybe it makes the persons involved feel better somehow, about killing the animal. And yes I eat meat, and no I don't raise and kill my own. But if I did, I sure would not torture my animals upon slaughter. Sorry, just had to put in my .02 cents worth

-- Tina (clia@newmexico.com), July 22, 2000.

Perhaps I have become jaded but some customs still bother me. Saw a program on, I believe, Hong Kong where the heads of live monkeys are secured in an opening in a table. The top of the head is then removed exposing the brain. This is then cut into pieces by the diners and cooked in table-top oil cookers. In some Japanese sucsi (spelling?) restaurants patrons can select a fish out of a large tank. It is descaled live, beheaded, gutted and then sliced up. Who knows which, if either, suffers pain. Maybe what bothers me is we are much closer related to monkeys than fish. If frogs had become the dominant species, would they be enjoying 'human legs'?

-- Ken Scharabok (scharabo@aol.com), July 23, 2000.

And they are cringing that we mutilate our sons penis's at birth, that we eat sacred cattle, that we have so much gun violence, that we allow women to vote and work, it's all a matter of perspective. We surely wouldn't want to be judged by the T.V.'s perspective of us. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), July 23, 2000.

If I had another son , it would not be done without some type of medication .I just can't understand making anything suffer !

-- Patty Gamble (fodfarms@slic.com), July 23, 2000.

Re: the duck being tied and left in the sun for 2 days and the notion that this is just "different" and not necessarily "wrong"... God help us when we reach the point of being so politically correct that we cannot condemn something like that. Wrongness is not something that I can always determine on my own, and when it's iffy I just ask myself the question on the bracelet: what would Jesus do? Would He beat a dog? Would he leave a live animal to bake in the sun? Would he shoot snakes for the fun of it? I can't always do just like He would, but I try.

-- Shannon (Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary) (gratacres@aol.com), July 23, 2000.

The site with dog & cat eating information is

-- Shannon (Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary) (gratacres@aol.com), July 23, 2000.

There are lots of cookbooks that recommend aged meat. That is, killed and hung and aged until meat falls off the bone for some old duck/geese recipes. Doesn't meet today's standard but gourmet then and to some now.

-- J.J. (Haha@pa.prg), July 23, 2000.

J.J.

If you saw the TV mini-series Shogun, remember the scene in which Chamberland killed a duck and was hanging it to age properly. However, to the Japanese the smell of decay was extremely offensive. They had a servant remove the duck to be buried. Then, since he committed a crime against the Shogun he was beheaded. A human life for a rotting duck.

-- Ken Scharabok (scharabo@aol.com), July 24, 2000.

Ken, I'd forgotten that. Was thinking more of an old James Beard cookbook. Eat well everyone!

-- J.J. (Haha@pa.prg), July 24, 2000.

Isn't that wierd...why can't I post a website address on this forum? I tried it above for the dog & cat eating stuff, but it just came out blank. This has happened before, too.

-- Shannon (Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary) (gratacres@aol.com), July 25, 2000.

I have no idea why you can't post it, but if it's a www and a dot- com, just tell us the middle part! LOL

-- J E Froelich (dragnfly@chorus.net), July 25, 2000.

Once more...the address for the dog & cat eating info is: koreananimals.org

-- Shannon (Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary) (gratacres@aol.com), July 26, 2000.

Hello meat eating friends, here in the UK we take our ducks to the cinema to get to know them on a more personal basis before taking them home and popping them in the oven at gas mark 6 for 2 hours. this way they get to see a good film and I work up an appetite before

-- nicholas argyle trentham (ntrentham@travelbag.co.uk), December 19, 2000.

Hello meat eating friends, here in the UK we take our ducks to the cinema to get to know them on a more personal basis before taking them home and popping them in the oven at gas mark 6 for 2 hours. this way they get to see a good film and I work up an appetite before settling down to din dins.

which is usually served with a tangy orangey sauce and lively debate concerning the earlier film. Many thanks, bye for now, Nicholas

-- nicholas argyle trentham (ntrentham@travelbag.co.uk), December 19, 2000.

Before cooking I like to stuff it with my huge pink sausage

-- nicholas argyle trentham (ntrentham @travelbag.co.uk), December 21, 2000.

I think that is deplorable Mr Nicholas A Trentham i bet you wear cowboy hats as well and think yourself as a bit of a Marlboro man

-- Rev R Sole (Rsole@slippy.com), December 21, 2000.

Wow, this must be another intelligent statement from the pig smell man. Anonymous cowards are so annoying - if you have something to say about this forum at least have the courage to say it in your own skin. God loves you even if you are acting like an idiot. diane in michigan

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), December 21, 2000.