I think that all of us who have orienteered a fair amount around the US have been to enough A-meets that we would have had at least one or two really bad experiences at the hands of the meet organizers. Any thoughts on what your worst A-meet was?

Mine was an A-meet that was probably around '92 or '93 put on jointly by the clubs from Rochester and Buffalo. For whatever reason, the people there have always been pretty "into" their junior orienteers. That's all nice and fine, until it gets to the point that they take it apon themselves to make a map and design a course for an A-meet! That's what happened for one day of this A-meet I went to. It was by far the sorriest, most pitiful attempt to waste orienteering time that I have ever experienced at a "national level" meet. It was likely the worst thing I've seen at any level of meet. The map was perfectly awful and the forest was absolutely disgusting, full of downed trees and a thick undergrowth. The courses took full advantage of the worst parts of the forest and worst parts of the map. I remember at one occasion being perhaps 50m from the control, seeing the control, and realizing that it would take me at least several minutes to get there crawling over a tangled web of dead trees. I was straddled over a log, my feet were dangling down with nothing but air to touch, and all around me was more of the same. I think the map was either white or light green here, if indeed "here" had much meaning at all on this particular map. I think I came pretty close to giving up o' entirely that day... I was hundreds of miles from the Homeland and didn't see much future in Ohio. In the end the passage of time healed those wounds and I went on with my life.

-- Mook (everett@psi.edu), July 14, 2000

Answers

What Mook fails to mention here is that he beat the lumberjack by 7 minutes and the guy who won last years strongest man competition by a whopping ten minutes.

-- Snorkel (danielmeenehan@aol.com), July 14, 2000.

I'm not ready to name a All-Time Worst A-Meet. But, I can describe some of the criteria for a terrible event.

I like the controls to be in the right place. If they aren't, there is a big problem.

I am always disappointed when the event doesn't come close to being as good as it could (easily) be. If the courses aren't great at a place like Prarie Center -- that is ok, it is really difficult to set good courses at Prarie Center. But, if the courses are bad at West Point, where the terrain and maps are wonderful, I feel like the event didn't come close to reaching its potential.

The organizers ought to be reasonable -- not too uptight, but also not too relaxed.

You ought to get what you expected. It is not really a problem, for example, if there are no restrooms near the start, the start is a long walk from the parking, and the results aren't posted until the following day...as long as that is what the organizers told you to expect.

I can enjoy a meet when the terrain is not very good and even when the map is not great (I like for it to be consistent, however). Of course, I'd rather run in interesting terrain and I'd always prefer a good map.

There are also a lot of "unique features" or experiences that can make an event memorably bad. Two examples come to mind...both involved housing that was far to noisy (and obnoxiously so) to allow for restful nights.

-- Michael (mik_eglinski@kcmo.org), July 14, 2000.

Spike wrote: Two examples come to mind...both involved housing that was far to noisy (and obnoxiously so) to allow for restful nights.

Now, would those two examples involve the Williams and the Louisville Buffoons (a.k.a. the Happiness Pavillion night)?

-- Mook (everett@psi.edu), July 17, 2000.

That meet, Mr. Mook, would be (if I'm not mistaken), the second day of a two-day meet, which was held at Camp Pine-Wood (Saturday had been at M---? Lakes). One of the first maps I ever drafted (though I didn't do any of the layout). Fieldwork was inconsistent, since it was done by three people, two of whom were novice juniors, but the bigger problem was that they had some ugly weather not long before the meet that took down a lot of mature trees. Yeah, the woods were ugly, but I've seen things a lot worse. Three A-meets of note come to mind:

1) A meet that I did not attend, but that I believe both Spike and Snorkel did, in a certain town whose name is not spelled "Nackadish".

2) A meet that Swampfox and I were both at that inspired me to type up an incredible list of problems which I still have on my computer at home. The one that most people remember was the fact that orienteers were being stopped by shotgun-toting homeowners who had not been informed that a race would be going through their yards (there were legs that crossed at least one driveway).

3) A certain World Cup which I did quite well at thanks to advice I received from Swampfox (who had run much earlier than me): "Don't go in the woods!" By heeding his advice and taking some really unlikely route choices that went waaaay out of the way on trails, I avoided the green (that was considerably worse than the stuff at Pine-Wood). I later wrote a full-page article for O/NA on how bad the fifth control on that course was (basically a pit in the middle of dark green). Several years later, I went back and visited that control site with Jim Baker, and we both laughed our heads off.

-- J-J (jjcote@juno.com), July 17, 2000.

A meet that I did not attend, but that I believe both Spike and Snorkel did, in a certain town whose name is not spelled "Nackadish".

The Louisiana A-meet had a lot of problems, but I wouldn't put it on a list of worst A-meets. There were misplaced controls, the map was not very good, and the organization left something to be desired. But, the organizers certainly tried their best. The non-O' aspects of the trip were nice. The housing was fine and we had some good food.

A certain World Cup which I did quite well at thanks to advice I received from Swampfox (who had run much earlier than me): "Don't go in the woods!" By heeding his advice and taking some really unlikely route choices that went waaaay out of the way on trails, I avoided the green (that was considerably worse than the stuff at Pine-Wood). I later wrote a full-page article for O/NA on how bad the fifth control on that course was (basically a pit in the middle of dark green). Several years later, I went back and visited that control site with Jim Baker, and we both laughed our heads off.

I'm pretty sure JJ is referring to a world cup race that was in Washington. I didn't go to it. I was living in Sweden at the time. I remember reading the headline in one of the Stockholm papers -- "Bingo Controls at World Cup." I also remember reading an interesting report in ONA. There were interviews with lots of the best orienteers in the world -- they said the event was terrible and there were lots of bingo controls. Then they had an interview with the main organizer (Fred Veler) who defended the event. It is hard to imagine that the best orienteers in the world were wrong and Fred Veler was right. One of the things that makes an event bad is when the organizers don't do a good job AND are not willing to take any responsibility for problems.

-- Michael (mike_eglinski@kcmo.org), July 23, 2000.

<< Then they had an interview with the main organizer (Fred Veler) who defended the event. It is hard to imagine that the best orienteers in the world were wrong and Fred Veler was right. One of the things that makes an event bad is when the organizers don't do a good job AND are not willing to take any responsibility for problems. >>

Right. Fred basically said that everything was perfect, and the orienteers were whiners. But after saying that the bingo #5 control was great, he then tried to duck the blame by saying that it was the Norwegian controller's fault (the controller had apparently recommended the site based on how it looked on the map, without seeing it in the field).

There were other problems with that meet as well, including the one most annoying to me, that the water crew abandoned their job to go run courses, so that people like me who were running M21E (same course as World Cup, but not on a national team) later in the afternoon when it was hot had absolutely no water. And the following day, the finish crew chief reportedly tried to set up the finish area several hundred meters from where the maps showed, across a creek, because it looked nicer over there.

-- J-J (jjcote@juno.com), July 24, 2000.