I've got a riddle

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I am no longer a participant in Timebomb Uncensored, but once in a while I lurk. They have a riddle going on involving 12 cannonballs, and one is either lighter or heavier than all the rest, and you have to figure out which one with only three uses of a balance. The sort of thing I couldn't figure out if my life depended, to coin a phrase. But I don't care, because coming from a highly political family, I think my riddle about politics is much more worthwhile:

Bush, Gore, Nader, and Buchanan are running. Smith, Brown, and Jones are speculating as to the outcome.

Only one of these three men will be proven correct.

Smith declares that either Gore or Nader will win.

Brown says that there is no way in hell that Gore wins.

Jones says that he doesn't think either Bush or Nader will make it.

So, who's the winner?

-- Peter Errington (petere@ricochet.net), July 11, 2000

Answers

Brown is right when Buchanan wins. How's that?

-- (sis@home.zzz), July 11, 2000.

We all lose if Hillary wins.

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Marietta, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), July 12, 2000.

I know how to do the cannonball thingy, have to think about the reason I think Buchanan wins.

Weigh six cannonballs on either side of the scale. The lighter side balls are divided into three and three and weighed again. The lighter three balls are split up and only two are weighed. If these two are equal, the lighter ball is the one left that you didn't weigh. Otherwise, the lighter ball will show up on your scale.

-- helen (home@home.home), July 12, 2000.


Helen, your way assumes a lighter ball, but the way the question is worded is 'lighter or heavier'. That makes it a bit more difficult... I'm working on it ;-)

Peter, I'll have to work on yours awhile, too...

-- Tricia the Canuck (jayles@telusplanet.net), July 13, 2000.


If Buchanan wins, it makes two people correct, Brown and Jones, and only ONE person is correct, so Buchanan can't win. Eliminate Gore the same way,...his winning would make both Smith and Jones correct. Nader gets eliminated this way too, his winning would make both Smith and Brown right. The only way only ONE person can be correct is if BUSH wins (which he will)...and the only correct person was Brown, with his blanket statement that Gore won't win..(he got that right)

The answer is BUSH.

-- kritter (kritter@adelphia.net), July 13, 2000.



Kritter, you got it. (I've found as a general rule that I can't do this sort of puzzle without pencil and paper. Often you can set up a matrix, with rows and columns, and by eliminating squares, a pattern will emerge.)

-- Peter Errington (petere@ricochet.net), July 13, 2000.

But my kids say that if you eliminate the squares, all us old stogy conservative-type folks will go away ......

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Marietta, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), July 14, 2000.

Oh - the cannonball thingy.....

Pick all the cannonballs, and decide which one is suspiciously heavy (or light).

Put that one, plus two other (regular cannonballs), on one end of the balance beam.

Place three regular cannonballs on the other end of the balance beam.

[We will assume neither cannonball rolls off the balance beam, and that the beam does not break.]

If your choice was right, the "test" end of the balance beam will go up or down. If it does, your choice was right.

If the beam remains balanced, you have defective cannonballs that all weigh the same because all six are on the balance beam. Or you have one heavy cannonball and one light cannonball.

Select one cannonball from each end. Shoot them at the enemy. You now have four cannonballs.

Check the balance beam....If it is out of balance, you have shot two balanced cannonballs at the enemy - either two equally heavy, or one heavy and one light.

You have used one "weighing" opportunity, and have four cannonballs left. (Or right....or center ... Or behind you .... or wherever you put the cannonballs - that's where they are now. Except the ones you shot at the enemy. We don't know where they are.)

You now have two "weighing opportunities left, and four cannonballs.

Select the cannonball that appears too heavy or too light. Place it and one other "regular" canonball on one end of the balance beam. Place the two "regular" cannonballs on the other end.

Chack the balance beam. (It probably hasn't broken, since last time it had six cannonballs, and now it has only four cannonballs. However, metal fatigue may have set in since the last time, so be careful..... People fatigue from lifting cannonballs may also have set in....)

Repeat until all cannonballs have been shot at the enemy.

Let them figure it out.

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Marietta, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), July 14, 2000.


Robert, I like your answer best!

-- Tricia the Canuck (jayles@telusplanet.net), July 14, 2000.

Definately. Robert may not have the right answer but certainly the right perspective. I got involved in the cannonballs only because I recognized it from 30 years ago. The calendar changes but logic doesn't and that's kind of comforting.

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), July 15, 2000.


Not a riddle, but a question for you: There are 3 words in the English language that end in 'gry'... one is 'hungry', another is 'angry'... what is the third? :-)

-- Gayla (privacy@please.com), July 15, 2000.

My way of determining which cannonball is of a different weight from the other eleven will work whether the different cannonball is lighter or heavier. It'll work even if the difference is too slight to be accurately determined by hand. It will! It will! I'm not right very often, but I'm right right now and I want my medal!

-- helen (home@the.farm), July 15, 2000.

Gry itself is a word, does that count? I know that word only because it's used in crossword puzzles sometimes, as "unit of measure"... I think it's like a 10th or something like that. Couldn't think of any words that END in gry other than those two. My husband adds an old english word "nangry"...but we couldn't find it in the English dictionary.

-- kirstena (kritter@adelphia.net), July 15, 2000.

Helen, your way will work for heavier or lighter, but only if you know to start with whether the odd one out is heavier or lighter... if you don't know that to start with, your way won't work. How 'bout a half medal?

-- Tricia the Canuck (jayles@telusplanet.net), July 15, 2000.

Tricia, it works without you knowing which ball is different. You just divide 12 balls into two groups of six balls and weigh them on either side of a balance-scale. One group will ... oh, drat...ok, now I see, you want to know if the oddball is on the heavy side or the lighter side.....this has totally ruined my day...sob...

-- helen (home@the.farm), July 15, 2000.


Helen, Sorry to say your way will not work because you assumed that the ball was light and so you weighed the six balls on the lighter side of the fulcrum. What if the ball was on the other side and was heavier? you would have one extra steps in the series in order to determine this. Sorry, not even a half of a medal.

-- Larry (lawrence.m.haley@lrn02.usace.army.mil), July 19, 2001.

lARRY -

You're Army; you should have noticed this....8<)

If one cannonball is on the other side, it's already been shot at the enemy (or, in today's politcally corrupt jargon: "the unwilling receiptant of incoming cannonballs") and so ISN'T on this side any more.

So it is on the other side, and thus isn't a part of the problem anymore.....it's a part of the other guy's problem(s).

See how simple that is......Boy, the things you gotta teach army guys... Good thing I was navy, heh?

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Marietta, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), July 19, 2001.


Helen is now complaining that she can't figure out to get the Army's balls to work out.....

Funny. The Army isn't complaining.

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Marietta, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), July 20, 2001.


Bad, bad, bad, Robert.

-- helen (bad@bad.robert), July 21, 2001.

It appears I am going to have to defend the army here and show where the country gets its smarts from...no offence navy...

Take the 12 balls and devide them into 3 groups of four and number them from 1-12....now try and keep up navy boy... 1)Compare 1,2,3,4 to 5,6,7,8 if equal then the ball is in the third group of 9,10,11,12. 2)Compare 1,2,3 with 9,10,11 if equal, the answer is 12 and compare it to 1 to find out if it is heavier or lighter. 3)If step 2 is not equal then compare 9 and 10, if equal answer is 11. If step 3 is not equal choose the one that matches the fulcrum tilt in step 2.

Now it gets tricky...4)If step 1 is not equal compare balls 1,2,3,5 to 4,10,11,12. You know from step one which way the tilt was and we will assume it tilted down on the left..it doesn't matter. 5)If step 4 is equal then compare 6 to 7, if equal answer is 8 and it is the light one. If not equal take the lighter one of 6&7. 6)If step 4 was not equal and tilted down on left side, compare 1 to 2, if equal the answer is 3 and it is heavy. If not equal choose the heavier of 1 & 2. 7) If step 4 tilted down on right side compare 4 to 9, if equal then 5 is the the light ball, if not then 4 is the heavy ball.

I know its kind of hard to follow. If you want me to draw a diagram I will scan it and email it to you....for a small fee. I have to pay for the 30 minutes that it took this army guy to figure it out in.

Lawrence M. Haley P.E. Nashville, TN

-- Larry (lawrence.m.haley@lrn02.usace.army.mil), July 23, 2001.


I guess since I solved the puzzle it ruined everyones fun huh? I guess I should have just kept it to myself and listen to Robert and Helen go on with their theories.

Larry

-- Larry (lawrence.m.haley@lrn02.usace.army.mil), July 31, 2001.


Larry, do you like mules? :)

-- helen never solved the puzzle (dumb@nd.dumber), July 31, 2001.

As a matter of fact I do like mules. They are a very reliable and sure footed animal. Not to mention they are much smarter than horses. If you get the right mare and a good Jack you can make one mighty fine mule. So....why do you ask?

-- larry (lawrence.m.haley@lrn02.usace.army.mil), August 01, 2001.

Well, Larry, here you are. Since you'll never get the cannonball thing explained well enough to make me understand it, we're gonna hafta find another subject of conversation. :)

-- helen (mules@chickens.goats.boring.boring), August 01, 2001.

Well Helen, I am pretty much game for talking about anything. How about lets talk about your creative email addresses and the meaning behind them. I thought at first you lived on a farm or something but now you say that talking about animals is boring...whats up with that. As for the cannonball riddle, I stated earlier that I could scan a sketch of the solution and send it....oh but thats right you have this fear of putting in a real email...I'm just kidding with you. I understand that there are a lot of wackos out there. Lets see another subject...hhmmm? How about those TITANS??

-- Larry (lawrence.m.haley@lrn02.usace.army.mil), August 02, 2001.

Are forget...are Titans Greek or Roman mythology?

Did you know there are other threads on this particular site that you can look at and get a look at the level of insanity our regulars exhibit? Jump in, Larry!

-- old mchelen has a farm ... (tell@us.stories), August 02, 2001.


Larry=Man

Man=Sports ;-)

Titans=Tennessee Titans (football!)

-- Gayla (privacy@please.com), August 03, 2001.


We're doing math?? AGAIN??

-- helen (math@is.har.r.r.d), August 03, 2001.

Titans = Original Oilers

Original Oilers = Turncoats and Traitors (for leaving Houston)

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Marietta, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), August 05, 2001.


As much as i enjoyed reading your little "conversation," (and yes, i know it took place like a year ago so the odds of any of you actually ever reading this are slim), you all really need to find some real friends,,, it's healthy.

-- lol man (wow@you.guys.are.superduper.lonely.aren't/you.html), December 03, 2002.

We laugh on-line and a year later someone comes along to tell us we need to get a life. Hmmmm, I agree. There is someone posting to this thread who needs to get a life...

-- T the C (T@tel.net), December 04, 2002.

But, but, but I've GOT a life ...

And part of it involves discussing irreverent things about life on- line with a few FRLian friends...

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (cook.r@csaatl.com), December 04, 2002.


Me too Robert, and ENJOYING it! Hehehe!

-- Aunt Bee (Aunt__Bee@hotmail.com), December 05, 2002.

"you all really need to find some real friends"

Uh oh! Does this mean my on-line friends aren't real? Funny, they sound just like my off-line friends. Then again, in 60's speak, you are an unreal bunch of friends. Cheers.

-- Carol (c@oz.com), December 05, 2002.


The definition of friend from Webster's Encyclopedic Dictionary:

"1)someone on terms of affection and regard for another who is neither a relative nor lover 2)someone who freely supports and helps out of good will 3)an acquaintance 4)an ally...

I think the regular posters here certainly qualify as friends to me :-)

-- Tricia the Canuck (jayles@telusplanet.ent), December 05, 2002.


Well, I ain’t got no friends! I don’t want no friends. ‘Cause I don’t NEED no friends! I don’t need no ‘fection, and I got no use for no support. I don’t need no smoochies or choochies or hugs. And I certainly don’t NEED to be held in the f....f.....firm immensity of Helen’s b....b... bosom, neither!

(bah humbug)

-- Lon Frankenstien (evil@the.bayou), December 05, 2002.


(Asking Lon F. innocently.....)

Does helen need support?

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (cook.r@csaatl.com), December 05, 2002.


Nicely put Tricia.

(((Lon)))

Sorry Mr F. I just couldn't resist.

Hmmm, Robert asks "innocently". Really?

-- Carol (C@oz.com), December 06, 2002.


There is nothing innocent about suggesting support for my immensity. Other people may need a sling for a backward protuberance.

( o Y o )

-- huffy helen (back@from.limboland), December 06, 2002.


Nods his head up & down innocently, up & down innocently, up & down innocently...

(While watching helen's yo-yo's .....)

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (cook.r@csaatl.com), December 06, 2002.


Lol Helen, glad to see you still have a sense of humour with all you've got going on at the moment.

Yikes Robert (Noddy), I think you'd better do some serious sweet talking to Helen after that comment. BTW this joke seems appropriate:

Q. Why do men find it difficult to make eye contact?

A. Breasts don't have eyes.

-- Carol (C@oz.com), December 07, 2002.


OMG Carol! I just LOL'd over your joke! Reminds of a lunch I had long ago, with actor Ronny Cox, on a promotional tour of a movie called "Bound for Glory". There were five of us at the table, and I sat on his left. For two hours he talked to my chest! I just wanted to slap him and say look at my eyes! I was glad when the movie bombed, it meant I didn't have to deal with him again-LOL!

I am so glad I am out of that business! Lotsa lessons learned there though! And life moved on!

-- Aunt Bee (Aunt__Bee@hotmail.com), December 07, 2002.


Boy, I can sympatheyes with that .....

Nods his head up & down innocently, up & down innocently, up & down innocently... (While watching helen's yo-yo's ..... aya-aying with Aunt Bee's eyes. Er, sympathighes. Er, tympanies. Oh. Sympathisizes.)

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (cook.r@csaatl.com), December 07, 2002.


Cannon Ball Qs:

weigh 5 on one side against 5 on the other. If it tips, you know that the uneven weighed ball is within these ten ball.

add the two remaining un weighed balls on the left remove two from the left and put them on the right remove two from the right

on your second weigh, you will still have 5 balls on either side. If the scale moves again in the same direction as before, than the uneven ball is among the three balls from that side that you did not remove. If the scale moves in the opposite direction, than the uneven ball is on the opposite side, and is one of the 2 balls u moved, If the scale is unchanged, than the uneven ball is of the two you removed from the left at the beginning of the second weighing.

then u have your third weigh to determin which of the 3 balls or 2 balls it is.

whew! that was a mout full.

-- natasha (fitzone_tanzania@hotmail.com), March 06, 2003.


So, that leads to another question! Who is Natasha? And how did she get here? BTW, Natasha, your method only works if you know whether the unusual ball is heavy or light, right? Or perhaps I'm missing something in your final step. I'm still working on this one. (I didn't quite figure out Larry's explanations completely. Maybe it would help if I weren't sleep deprived.)

-- Tricia the Canuck (jayles@telusplanet.net), March 08, 2003.

Well don't look at ME. I didn't let Natasha in here.

-- kritter helper (helping@one.kritter.at.a.time), March 09, 2003.

Maybe she came in through the hole the other cannonballs opened up?

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (cook.r@watchLondrinking.glug), March 10, 2003.

Robert, that must be it! You've found the leak :-)

-- Tricia the Canuck (jayles@telusplanet.net), March 13, 2003.

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