Vote on tournament style settings : LUSENET : MAME Action Replay : One Thread

OK - time for the ultimate showdown(again)

For each game I put out and all subsequent games that other people will put out when they reply(I hope :) ) - everyone who votes(which I hope are a lot of people) are requested to reply as follows:

A. Keep it as it is - with marathons only.

B. Split into two games - marathon and tournament(5 lives / no extras)

C. Split into two games - marathon and tournament(5 lives / no extras) - MAME 35 TG 3 and all subsequent versions ONLY for marathons.

D. Erase all marathon scores and use only tournament settings.(5 lives / no extras)

E. Other - and mention the other :)

I'm only coming up with probably a minute selection of games. Hopefully the people who reply with this message will come up with more games that have this problem.

Qbert - D

Joust(and all clones) - D

Bombjack - D - with all due respect to Lord Gaz who really showed his stamina.

why can't I think of anything else right now? I'll vote on all subsequent games that other people suggest :)

Thanks for your attention on this important matter. GB9

-- Gameboy9 (, July 11, 2000


D. for all games that repeat the same levels/difficulties after X levels are passed, all of those games you mentioned do that.

-- Chad (, July 11, 2000.

I should say D. for all games that if someone using defaults can reach and pass the most difficult level which repeats, tgsettings should be used for that game only.

-- Chad (, July 11, 2000.


Add Flicky, Galaga, and Gyruss to the list. Is till think I'm missing a few as well.

Q.T.Quazar, MARP Rules Coordinator

-- Q.T.Quazar (, July 11, 2000.


-- Pat (, July 11, 2000.

B & E

Add Bubble Bobble, Tapper, Mr Do.

All games should set to what the games dipswitch allowed. For example, In D2K I found completely annoying that only 5 men are allowed in Q*bert. And there is no way to set Q*bert for 5 men.

PS, the purpose of MARP is to show what best players can do. So removing the kft Q*bert, LordGaz Bombjack, or Mark Joust would not only cheat them but us. Besides what cost of keeping couple 100k of information in Marp (for Marathoned scores).


-- Lord AxE (, July 11, 2000.

LordGaz's Bombjack IS TG, if not harder than TG. And Mark even admits he only played his marathon Joust as a warmup (at least, that's what I remember him saying) As for kft, I'll ask before we change his score. Worst comes to worst he can always include the .inp in the new .zip, and post an added line to his description.

Q.T.Quazar, MARP Rules Coordinator

-- Q.T.Quazar (, July 11, 2000.

I vote for B. I think that there should be a marathon option, to show other player how the game is played, asnd the stamina, but also there should be a TG (or a game with 3 lives or 5 lives only)

Let4s split those games into two categories!

Just my opinion..



hmm other games...

-- QRS (, July 11, 2000.

hmmmm......just a quick idea; marathon games can be kept, but they don't count to leaderboard, like those bowling games that were archived (or something like archiving, I have no idea). When you submit an inp for a marathon game, perhaps at the end of the short game name could be a "-mt".

Once again, just a daft idea from the youngster. Hope they somehow help.


J.D. Lowe

-- J.D. Lowe (, July 11, 2000.

I vote B, The games should be played the way they were in the gamerooms, the tournament play is great for a "Tournament". If we changed to Tournament play only, we can't compare the scores to any valid arcade records such as the ones at TG. As for the # of lives in tournament play, I agree with Axe, it's too much agravation to deal with counting five lives when your "into the game". The # of lives needs to be set to whatever the Dips can be adjusted to.

just my thoughts,


-- Buddude (, July 11, 2000.

I vote D ...

-- Lagavulin (, July 11, 2000.

On games where there are one or two more versions, I think they should be split into TGTS/ or marathon. Example, Joust,T+F , Q-Bert. I think this is fair? After all, not all ( if any) arcade machines were set to TGTS settings, so surely it`s OK to have both as an option.

Just my opinion...


-- AL (, July 11, 2000.

Back in the day, I used to be able to play Gauntlet, Punchout, and Joust forever. After the first 10 million on Joust I didn't really feel I was proving very much.

But the spirit of MARP seems to be to include everything, what with the clones of Dig Dug and all. So I guess the best thing to do is have both. Twin Galaxies does track scores for marathon and tournament for a lot of games, but think if you had a Qbert tournament and it was on factory, it really wouldn't prove who was the best player, just who could stay awake the longest.

Personally I wouldn't really want to go for the Marathon Joust world record... It's over 67.5 hours. That has to be bad for your health, plus I'm over 30 now, and I don't have the luxury of playing Joust for 3 days (I really doubt anyone here has that much free time).

It is good practise though.

As for the Qbert 5 men rule, all you need for that to work is a version of MAME with a death counter on screen, which would be easy to make. Then once it hits 5 then player can see they are finished.

I'd add that to my list of things to do... ;-)

-- Mark Longridge (, July 12, 2000.

I vote for B on all occasions. + I vote Paperboy to be split into 3 games: easystreet, middleroad and hardway + TG settings should be used. And a bonus vote for overallscore where all 3 "avenues" are counted together.

Thank you

-- Tommi (, July 12, 2000.

I just want gamers to realize what some of them are voting on here. If you choose to vote B, then not only are THESE 3 games going to be split, but so is ANY game that eventually reaches the point that Chad mentions above, reaching X to the point where it repeats and you're still not fazed. Personally, I find having these settings rather silly, because a true master will be able to marathon on TG settings eventually anyways, maybe not the same distance as an easier marathon, but a marathon nonetheless.

Case in point: LordGaz scores 14 mil on Bomb Jack at hardest difficulty. I'm sure on marathon settings he could do well over 100 million, given time. What the hell's the point? A marathon race is a race set at a certain distance; arcade games are indefinite for the most part. I'm sorry, but I'm not impressed by 70 hours of playing a game. To me it's just like those contests they had in the 80s where they gave a car to the last person to let go of it. (anyone remember these?) It's something that might be a neat tidbit to read in the Guinness, but at the end of the day, who the hell cares?

Gamers will eventually get good enough at a game, if they desire, to play at any settings. While a few games might not hold true to this because of insane speed (Joust 2, etc.) those games aren't likely to be marathonable at any settings. Having marathon and TG settings is redundant and as I said in a n earlier post, the points will almost surely be going to the same player anyways.

Consider well these points before casting your vote, MARPers. And consider also the confirmers that have to confirm the scores. They're not watching at the same time you're making them.

Q.T.Quazar, MARP Rules Coordinator

p.s. Tommi, I would pick one or the other, and personally, I would prefer the split. I always though Grand SLam was a silly method in the first place, and I think it's the only exception of its type at MARP.

-- Q.T.Quazar (, July 12, 2000.

I haven't been active at MARP for very long, but to me MARP has two main attractions.

1. You can compete with other players just as you could in a "real world" arcade.

2. You can watch other players play the games in ways you wouldn't think possible and get a great deal of pleasure out of it.

When it comes to marathoned games there are a conflict between these points, at least for me. If marathoned games are ruled out, you wouldn't play the game just as it was in the arcade. If, on the other hand, they are allowed, most of the fun of watching these inputs are lost, since most people (including me) don't have the stamina to watch a multi-hour recording. Even less people get any pleasure out of it.

An easy way out would be to vote for split games. But I will not do that, since my opinion is that splits are only justified when the game contains different "games in the game."

Since I really enjoy watching good inputs, but haven't got the time or the stamina do it for hours and hours, my vote is for D.

-- Abbe (, July 12, 2000.

I do like the idea of B, it's just the implementation of it that I am a bit sceptical of. I like Lowe's idea of -mt for a marathon game attempt and perhaps -tm for a tournament (5 lives only) game attempt. And then there are games like Tetris which are marathonable but where you only get one life or limited lives anyway?

My list of marathonable games include Defender, Joust, Robotron, Gauntlet (depending on settings and initial screen sequence), MrDo, Asteroids, Bomb Jack, Tetris, Track & Field (which I gather has been made one round only).

One point I have do have for marathon games though is that they can be a battle of wills. For example, I feel I can beat the Universal Mr.Do high score (6.2 mil) but I can't be bothered at the moment so Tim Hood is winning the battle of wills for that game. Pac Man is another example, although you do have to score well up to the ninth key. If Mr.Do was made 5 lives only it would not be like it would be in an arcade but it would mean that more people would have the time to beat the high score.

Another point is that if games where you get an indefinite numer of lives were made 5 lives only, it would change the way risks are taken to get those extra lives. For example there would be no need to take risks in going for the 'E' coin in Bomb Jack or the 'EXTRA's in Mr.Do.

PS. Wasn't one clone of Joust supposed to have been moved to 5 lives status by now?

-- LordGaz (, July 12, 2000.

Sorry, LordGaz, I should have read gb9's original post better. The 'D' listing is a mistake. '5 lives only' is an example of a setting, not something concrete. I thik 5 lives only is a ridiculous idea, and if other people were thinking like I was, we'll probably have to revote.

I would say vote 'E'- TG settings only OR HARDER THAN TG. If you can keep earning bonus lives on a game's hardest settings, then you should be perfectly welcome to do so, even if you can play the game ad infinitum. No marathons, save for those players who are good enough to marathon on TG or harder than TG settings.

This ruling would bind to Q*Bert, Joust, Mr. Do, Bomb Jack(already in place), Gauntlet, Flicky, and Galaga.


Screw it. I'm striking down this vote and posting a new one, but before we vote I want a clear list of all games that players can marathon on Default settings, just so everyone knows what they're getting into. There will be a new thread posted, please watch for it and respond.

Q.T.Quazar, MARP Rules Coordinator

-- Q.T.Quazar (, July 12, 2000.

C is the best way to go. Especially if players in marp want to have recognition for their accomplishment when the 2nd edition of the Twin Galaxies Book of World Records is ready to go into production. The TG ver. of mame is clean and is the best way to go. I will list a nice size list of games below that I strongly feel should be broken into 2 separate "high score" lists as I already numerous times disscussed this with Walter Day on the phone about doing the same for the next book. He already has done it on several games, but needs to address it on many others.

Regards, Steve Krogman

1) Robotron 2) Defender 3) Stargate 4) Joust 5) Q*bert 6) Galaga (this one I have been working on for some time now. I disscussed this with Walter about using some kind of tournament settings with this game to make it a little more challenging and interesting. I've come up with a "TG Tournament Setting" that I'm waiting response from Walter to see if it will be added like the ones already in there (robotorn, joust, defender, ect). This game is bordorline when talking about marathon. You can't play it for 24 hours like robotron, but I've managed to play galagatf for 10 hrs and just think if there were a cut off point to avoid a marathon, it would make the game rather interesting.

Here are my 2 sets of settings everyone on MARP can vote on including myself.

* Either ver. of Galaga *

1) Start with 5 men and no extras setting the difficulty on "D" to avoid a lock-up at stage 255.


2) Start with 5 men and no extras setting the difficulty on "C" which will end the game at 255 (This makes it a little more intersting because those that can reach this "kill screen" will want to try and points press their score to see what the highest they can get at this point, no different then players did on Pang3-10 levels. This challenge of points pressing is fun and if it flys with players on MARP, then it could be considered on other games.

My vote is #2 even know I will disscuss with Walter to select #1 for the book, reason being is that there are alot of players around the world that can reach beyond the kill screen in the arcade so it would be interesting to see how high of a score a player can get with just 5 men on setting D.

Note: I've already taking into consideration that some of these games haven't been marathoned yet on MAME that is, They still should have there respected lists. It's just a matter of time before someone (hell, could be me...) plays a game of Robotron or Defender on their HotRod joystick and uploads a 40M or 50M pt game. We've already seen what happened with Q*bert. Which is a phenominal score by far.

-- stephen krogman (, July 13, 2000.

Why 5 lives, Steve? I don't understand the mentality. Why not the lowest possible setting of lives, which would reduce the marathon and make it harder for the better players to achieve an extremely high score?

Anyways, thank-you for responding to the Galaga question. I'll repost your comments in the appropriate thread.


-- Q.T.Quazar (, July 13, 2000.

Q.T. Quasar, thanks for resonding to my thread. The only reason I mentioned 5 men only is because it's pretty much the standard number of men according to Twin Galaxies tournament settings coming from Walter Day. I see your point though, compare a Robotron 5 men game to a Galaga 5 men game and you'll notice the difference. I've gotten 499,000 on Robotron which is about a 15 min game. That's close to only 500,000 on Galaga (18 min) compared to probably around 6M I could get on 5 men which would be about 3.5 hours. What we really need to talk about is what classifies a game as marathon? It has to be a factor of time were talking about. Galaga may seem like it's a marathon game, but in reality no one will last 14 hours on Galaga to my knowledge especially if it's the original fire ver. Now Robotron let's say, is endless because you get extra men every 25K. Galaga you have 18 total men and even if a player could average a million pts per man that would give him 18M and roughly a 10 hour game as I did on turbo fire. Robotorn, Joust, or Q*bert for that matter can be played for 48+ hours, it has been done already. Galaga 5 men wouldn't be more then 4 hours I suspect so could we say any game that lasts more then 5 hours is considered a marathon game? This may be too time factor may be too low, I can find out tonight when I talk to Walter on the phone and ask him what he considers a game to be marathon. Is it because it's played endlessly (continuously awarding men and not getting any harder)? or is it because it's being played for a certain amount of time consistantly? I'll respond back to this post later on.

Regards, Steve Krogman

Longest marathon ~ Galaga Turbo fire MAME ver. 10 hrs.

-- stephen krogman (, July 13, 2000.

If you consider a limit of time to stop a marathonable game, you could very easily limit the number of frames in the playback and record the score when the inp stops playing back or perhaps when the player loses all the lives since the ship/man won't move/fire anymore..... this is a very easy thing to do with the right program to trim the inp file to the correct number of frames to relate to an hour/minute/second limit negotated by experts.

-- Chad (, July 14, 2000.

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