What was wrong with my film loading with M6

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It was the third times that I found out after I have 'finished' 36-exp film I could not rewind the film and of course the film did not transport at all when I tensioned the shutter in the first place.

Any thing wrong with my film loading or my M6 is abnormal?

It apperas that my M6 is working now.

-- Kenny Chiu (amchiu@worldnet.att.net), July 05, 2000

Answers

The official Leica line is to follow the picture printed on the baseplate, and don't worry. I always make sure the transport gear teeth are biting the holes in the film as they should be, before I close the back, and when I load I ALWAYS take up the slack in the rewind crank after I've wound and fired once, and make sure the crank moves when I wind the second blank shot before the first picture. If the crank doesn't move, I open the camera and try to figure out what's going wrong. Losing a shot at the beginning because you have to open the camera is a lot better than losing 36 in a row, right? :-)

-- Michael Darnton (mdarnton@hotmail.com), July 05, 2000.

Kenny, Couple of questions: 1. You said three times... out of how many rolls? Just asking to see if this was intermitten or three in a row. If it is in a row, there could have been a failure of something mechanical. Once in a while could indicate technique error when loading the film. 2. Does the film stop advancing at the end of the roll, or do you just stop at 36? If the film will not advance after 36,37 or so... then it was in fact transporting. 3. does the film rewind lever automatically reset when you advance the film train after removing an old roll? if not, the camera will act as though you want to make multiple exposures... In this case 36 shots on frame one. Check that it is snapping back into its normal position, which allows all of the gearing to advance the film.

Aside from that, I concur with Michael... Check that the sprockets engage both the top and bottom of the film. Take up all tension in the rewind crank and ensure it spins while going to frame one. Good Luck. Al

-- Al Smith (smith58@msn.com), July 05, 2000.


The loading may be the single most frequent gripe against the Leica M system. I follow the advice given by Michael and wind once before closing the back, but not actually for the same reason given by Michael. I found that by following the baseplate diagram, you are guaranteed to have a misalignment between the frame counter and the frame numbers exposed on the film, i.e. the counter is always one ahead. This nitpick drives me nuts. So by winding once before closing, the counter remains disengaged for the one frame causing the numbers to be better aligned. And the way I do it always places the frame numbers nearly centered beneath the frame (using Kodak film). This is cool because the number is then properly seen on the easel/baseboard as it is projected by the V35 enlarger through the small window for that purpose. If you forget what frame you're printing, you don't have to take the negative out of the carrier to read the frame number. This small feature is particularly nice with the 25x37 carrier (for black line surrounding image) because, depending on how much coffee you've had, it's tricky to get the negative perfectly centered to make the thickness of the lines relatively even. And once it's in there, by God you don't want to have to take it back out!

I'm not positive about this, but I think I read a comment once on the LUG that winding the M4 series or M6 without the baseplate attached can be potentially harmful to the spring in the takeup chamber. I don't know if this is true. Maybe somebody else can add a better educated comment on this.

Even though the M camera has a ratcheted winder, when you wind your camera, do it "smartly" and "positively" and not with any hesitation or undue caution. I'm not saying to be harsh, just to be done with it with one swift action. I think the mechanism actually works better when done this way, and it's certainly overengineered enough to withstand it. A while ago when I was being too cautious, my M6 #1 jammed up tight - wouldn't wind, lever was stuck - heart throbbing its way up into my throat - sudden horror, you know, all that. I was unmistakably half way through my roll of film so I know it worked correctly until then. I still don't know what happened. Well, it happened one day with M6 #2. Same thing. I attributed it either to the way I loaded my film (weird), or the way I was winding. Ever since then, I've been winding both cameras "smartly" and it's never happened again.

-- Tony Rowlett (rowlett@mail.com), July 05, 2000.


Thanks for your advice and tips. I use only about dozen films in last 8 months for this camera. The problem is intermitten and most likely the film was not engaged properly to the teeth of the film transport system. I cannot recall what was happened but I think I was not able to advance the film completely at 36/37 so I decided to rewind film but it was stuck also. So I did an ungraceful thing to apply excessive force to the film rewind crack then I heard the film was disengaged or broke (one time). The film rewind lever was in up position before I turn it side way to rewind but did not watch it after I took out the problem film.

-- Kenny Chiu (amchiu@worldnet.att.net), July 05, 2000.

Another problem you might be having from your description, but might not have explained well is that if you wind film too far at the end sometimes the film is pulled loose from the spool in the cassette. I've never seen this with my eyes, but what it feels like has happened is that the film has come outside the cassette, but is still held by the tape. Trying to rewind finally breaks the tape, leaving the film stuck in the camera. Usually all that happens is that the sprocket holes strip out, but not everytime. The moment you feel that little tug at the end of the roll that says you're out of film, STOP, even if it's in the middle of a wind stroke. Don't try to wind the shutter the rest of the way--just rewind right then, and finish with the shutter later. But that doesn't really sound like your problem, since it sounds like you didn't get any pix at all.

-- Michael Darnton (mdarnton@hotmail.com), July 06, 2000.


As someone else said on photo.net recently, these are the kinds of problems you should not have in a high end product after 50 years of development. Ditto the battery drain problem of the TTL and the loose battery cover problem of all M6s. Or the viewfinder flare problem.

Kenny, I agree with the post above that says wind the film to the first frame smartly, and not cautiously. That seems to solve most of my jamming problems.

-- Mani Sitaraman (bindumani@pacific.net.sg), July 06, 2000.


I can understand the Leica loading problem in context--they have had 50 years to develop the camera, but it's only the last ten or so in which consumers have decided to abdicate ALL responsibility for blame when something goes wrong. I don't remember loading properly being all that big of an issue in the past, when people were willing to try to do their parts to make things work right.

-- Michael Darnton (mdarnton@hotmail.com), July 07, 2000.

One thing that is ignored when talking about the loading system of the "M" is that no swing back camera is as structurally sound. The single piece body is extreamly durable and will take a lot more abuse before distorting. Any additional seam, hinge or variable mating surface is a potential for reduced integrity. I'll put up with the current system.

-- Al Smith (smith58@msn.com), July 07, 2000.

This gripe comes up again and again! Just make sure that the sprocket teeth are engaged, close the back fit the baseplate and fire three frames in quick succession. That takes care of it.

It's possible that if you've only shot 12 films in 8 months you haven't yet got the hang of it, rather than that the camera is at fault.

I've always felt the M6/4 etc is the most positive load of any camera I've used, and I've never ever got it wrong.

Rob.

-- Robert Appleby (laintal@tin.it), July 08, 2000.


I have to agree with Rob. It is the best and fastest manual load system I have ever used. However there is a little trick. Film that has been stored in its plastic cannister developes a kink in the leader. When you insert the film, its kinked edge can sometimes catch on the upper edge of the film gate. When you then attach the baseplate the film is jamed between the edge of the film gate and the plastic film locater wheel on the baseplate. To prevent this just load with the back flopped open and make sure the edge of the film is past the film gate before attaching the baseplate. Clear sailling after that. Cheers

-- John Collier (jbcollier@home.com), July 08, 2000.


Ditto that reply from john collier the kink in the leader accounts for 99.99% of all the problems, the other .01% is useually prevented by drawing the leader out a little bit, youoften feel the little bit resistance. I think it is a throwback to the long leader days of 35mm. film

-- Russell Baston (russel.baston@unn.ac.uk), July 10, 2000.

That explains why my film was trapped. As I remember these three films in problem were reloaded from films taken out from my Nikon camera and the film leaders are pretty curled at the time I reloaded them in my Leica M6

-- Kenny Chiu (Amchiu@worldnet.att.net), July 10, 2000.

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