Champions Class : LUSENET : Shih-Tzu Talkshop : One Thread

What do you think of the idea of a Champions Class at shows? It would, perhaps, avoid the situation whereby a good dog and worthy potential champion is constantly placed in reserve to and existing Champion.(:o)

-- Anonymous, July 03, 2000


We have always thought that this was a good idea. The Champions class would be restricted to Champions only and the winner of the dog class for example, would run off with the dog C.C. winner for best dog and the same for the bitch classes. The Res. C.C. would not be awarded to the Champion's class winners either. It would of course increase the number of C.C's won in the breed but stop dogs running up 20, 30 , 40 C.C's. Once a dog is a Champion it would automatically move to the Champion's class.

-- Anonymous, July 03, 2000

Also, in order to encourage people to still enter their champions at shows, the winner of the Champions Class could perhaps receive a Special Award of Merit. After winning, say five of these Awards of Merit, perhaps the KC could award something like inclusion in a Kennel Club Special Register of Merit, or some such thing.

With this additional award, you would have good sized champions classes, which would be lovely to see, with a really prestigious award for them to gain, to make it worth their while.(:o)

-- Anonymous, July 04, 2000

I do think that there should be a separate class at championship shows,and also open shows for champions.Even though it is nice to win a cc it doesnt make your dog any more of a champion after the 3rd cc.I agree that there could be an award of merit perhaps given out to the winner of the champions class.Then other dogs with one or two cc's may get the chance to gain their title.

-- Anonymous, September 09, 2000

Hi Brenda The main problem with this idea is that indeed it would probably help to create more champions and this is fine as long as it doesn't also mean that the standard suffers. It could well be that there aren't the quality of dogs in the other classes to warrant a CC and what if all the suitable dogs to win the ticket are in the Champion's class? I can see the virtues of it though, it does make showing even more difficult if the ticket always goes to an already established champion but if the dog is good enough .......hmmm.....difficult. One thing I really don't like too much is collecting CC's just to get the breed record,,,,,,a Champion class would stop that.

-- Anonymous, September 09, 2000

Gloria, re your statement about the perhaps being no dogs worthy of the CC if Champions have to go into a Champions Class - how often do you think that would happen? That`s not a challenge of your statement, I just genuinely can`t work out how many times a year that might happen - I do agree that it would be possible, especially at a Ch. Show where the entries are low, or something like bad weather caused large numbers of absentees.(:o)

-- Anonymous, September 11, 2000

I think if you watch the dog classes at many of the shows you will see that the quality of a great many exhibits leaves a lot to be desired. The bitches are,on the whole, far superior - somewhat worrying when you look to find a suitable stud dog to use. We all know there is no such thing as the perfect dog/bitch, but there are few now with the essential balance, good head and expression the breed standard describes, and many fronts are a disaster. This is just my opinion, but this is my reason for wondering how a Champion Class would work out, not to say it couldn't.

-- Anonymous, October 26, 2000

Gloria, I suppose what I was trying to address was a situation where a worthy dog is being constantly beaten into 2nd place, or Reserve CC position, by someone who is determined to clock up as many CCs as possible (and I don`t have anyone or any dog in mind here, it`s just a generalisation!) It must be truly disheartening. I`ve seen it happen in other breeds, where a particular dog becomes flavour of the month (or should I say year!), and it kind of takes on a momentum of it`s own. Lots of press coverage, plenty photo opportunities in the doggy papers, and suddenly every judge for the rest of the year knows the dog, and perhaps pays more attention to the exhibit because of its success?

Now I know that judges should be judging all exhibits equally and on the day - but they are only human. It takes a brave person to place a dog with 20 ccs, and several Groups, 2nd to a dog with no CCs. I also know, that we do (thank heavens) have some judges with just that amount of courage and conviction, or else we all may as well pack up and go home!

However, and this is a BIG however, I fully appreciate your point about the possibility of not-quite-so-worthy dogs gaining their titles. There are indeed shows where you wonder just where the judge will find a CC winner, and yes, especially in dogs. On the other hand, I`ve been at shows where the judges dilemma has been WHO to give the CC to, because there have been several prime candidates.

Maybe my original suggestion would be `dumbing it down` too much by taking all champions out of the competition for CCs. How about if we have some kind of special award class which dogs that have won, say six CCs go into? Or what about the possiblity of awarding the status of CH. to a dog that has won a certain number of Reserve CCs?

-- Anonymous, October 27, 2000

Well where I do agree that it seems to happen that a dog/bitch goes through a period of time when every other judge awards it the ticket, highly frustrating when you are in the same class and or challenge it several times, but all I can say is I made my dog up when the breed record holder was at his height, we stood beside him in the class and in the challenge, showing is a matter of opinion and yes I do think that many judges suffer from the 'Kings New Clothes' syndrome, i.e. they are told (either by seeing the dog in the group or by dog press etc.)that this is the dog of the moment and if they see and hear it enough they believe it, just as everyone believed the king had a new set of clothes until a little boy, who hadn't heard the story of the king's new clothes, pointed out that the king, in fact was wearing nothing!! Hans Anderson inspired that particular thought of mine.

-- Anonymous, October 27, 2000

Ooh Gloria! You just took me back to my childhood with vivid memories of `Children`s Favourites` with Uncle Mac! Before your time, I suspect - but that Danny Kaye song was one of my favourites! Great description though, and it thoroughly fitted the bill! (:o)

The fact that you made your dog up, against the flow, shows that there are judges who think for themselves - praise be! It must have also given you considerable satisfaction.

What do you think of the idea of a `super` award, another level up from champion?(:o)

-- Anonymous, October 28, 2000

If there isnt a dog worthy of the C.C. then surely the judge can withold it, wasnt there a lot of publicity recently in the dog press about this very situation, it can be very disheartening to people with good worthy potential champion to come second every time to the current favorite and a champion class would relieve this situation. what is also disheartening is when dogs who have allready recieved C.C.s are entered in the lower classes, oh I know they are allowed to enter into junior if they still fit the age criteria but there are those who continue to enter post graduate, for example, who have recieved a C.C. i thought this class was restricted to those dogs who had not recieved the award. and i know that it shouldnt matter if you have a good dog it will be recognised at some point but surely thats what the classifications are for. Pat

-- Anonymous, August 19, 2001

Funnily enough, I have just entered my first cat show this weekend. I was first in the breed class I entered with my kitten, and BOB. Didn`t get too excited as I was the only one with a brown spotted kitten there! However, as I chatted to people through the afternoon, I was told that it was, in fact, an achievement to be proud of, as it would not have been unusual for the judge to withhold the `first`, let alone BOB. So, nice day for me, but also an example of withholding being a perfectly acceptable method of `grading` an animal.

I remember at Bournemouth a few years back, the judge witheld `first` and `second` in a couple of classes. Good for her! I thought she was brave to do it, and it did cause a bit of a stir at the time.! (;o)

-- Anonymous, August 20, 2001

Well, as you may or may not know, we have something similar to a "Champions class" here in the US. First dog and bitches compete different. You have several classes, 6-9 month old puppy dogs, 9-12 month old puppy dogs, 12-18 month old dogs, American bred dogs (for dogs breed here in the US), Novice dogs (for dogs that have yet to win a blue ribbon in any class), Bred by Exhibitor dogs (for dogs owned and handled by one of the breeders of record) and Open dogs (for any dogs eligible for competition). Then the same classes for bitches. Champions of record can be shown in Open, but its really a disadvantage for them. Then the winners dog and the winners bitch compete in Best of Breed with the Champions. I think it'd be really hard for us to finish a dog if the Champions competed against us for the points. Once you get into specialing (a Champion being campaigned is called a special), its a whole 'nother world. Politics are much tougher and MUCH more money is involved. To successfully special a dog, you really need to be out at the shows every weekend campaigning the dog. It'd be really hard if us just trying to finish our dogs had to go up against those out campaigning every weekend and spending big bucks. One particular special being campaigned I counted they spent $10,000 in ONE MONTH just on ads in various dog magazines. Yes, the WD and WB can occasionally get BOB over specials, but thats just icing on the cake to me :)

-- Anonymous, August 20, 2001

Wouldnt this be a wonderfull learning experience having a class of champions and the opportunity to use it as a teaching forum,the judge could critique the dogs on the day whilst the less experienced exhibitors could have a ring side seat to listen to the various points of the standard and why the judge had placed the dogs in the order of merit. This would also encourage people to stay to the end of the show by judging the Champion class last.I know that to give a critique on each dog would lenghten the time taken for this class but they are all worthy dogs so let us hear about their virtues

-- Anonymous, August 24, 2001

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