Hi Guys, We've got a young lamancha wether who is not feeling good and is having trouble peeing. He struggles to get a small stream and he tries constantly. He gets to the pasture at least once a day and is given a grain that is suppose to be for everything (horses, cows, sheep, goats,etc.) Any Ideas or do I need my vet?? Thanks, L.A.

-- LA (lromsa1@state.wy.us), July 01, 2000

Answers

I found that you cannot give goat wethers grain, or the goat chow because it will cause this problem. Your best bet would be to call the Vet and see what you can do about it soon.

-- Bergere (autumnhaus@aol.com), July 01, 2000.

La, You need to call a vet and hopefully one who knows something about goats(most do not). I have never heard of an all purpose feed that you feed everything but suppose that is possible. check the ingredients on the feed if it has any kind of chemical protein ie urea it is bad for any goat. Also what about hay? Are you feeding alfalfa? That can sometimes cause problems in bucks or wethers. They get stones (calculi) in the kidneys and it migrates down the ureters and gets lodged casusing problems with urinating. Oh does he have acsess to fresh clean water all the time, if he isn't drinking enough water it can also give him problems. Some bucks get this very easily and others do not but they can die if the urine backs up and the whole system becomes toxic. Good luck I would change his feed to a horse sweet feed, give him prairie hay, and try to get him to drink more water(neat trick for a goat)also make sure he is not getting too much mineral salt. sorry there are several different things that can cause the poor guys problem and you will have to play detective and solve the mystery. karen

-- Karen Mauk (dairygoatmama@hotmail.com), July 01, 2000.

Since you can't catheterize a wether, you need to have some facts before you have a vet bill. The only thing a vet can do for a wether is to douse him with ammonium chloride, which you can do yourself. Most large feed stores or mills carry ammonium chloride, or pipevet.com This will deacidify the contents of his bladder, and since he is still peeing a little bit perhaps the calculi will work its way down with out blocking it completely. The surgery for wethers is very expensive, it entails removal of the urethra length and making him into a buck who pees like a doe. A very expensive surgery that you may want to choose euthinisia instead. Surely unless this is a much loved pet and even then your money in your goat herd could be much better spent elsewhere. Once he gets to the point of laying down and crying at or kicking at his belly, his bladder will fill to the point of bursting. You will notice that he is all of a sudden fine, except he is not peeing, the bladder bursting has lessened his pain, but he will start running a temp from the urine in his system. He will slowly die of septicimia, actually the high fever dehydrating him, will kill him first. Sorry, Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), July 01, 2000.

-- The only thing a vet can do for a wether is to douse him with ammonium chloride, which you can do yourself. Most large feed stores or mills carry ammonium chloride, or pipevet.com --

You'll save a bunch of money ordering your supplies from Jeffers instead of Pipevet! My 2"!

-- ~Rogo, South Central Texas (rogo2020@yahoo.com), July 01, 2000.

Jeffers doesn't sell ammonium chloride and can't get it. I love Jeffers to! They can order you almost anything you need even if it isn't in the catalog. We use them in our Handyman Services Company also when we do fencing. They can beat any company in Texas on the price of chargers and fencing supplies! Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), July 02, 2000.

I had a wether kid with this problem in the days when the U of MO vet school reduced charges the more unusual your case was so the students could see the bizarre stuff before they got into private practice. Now they charge through the nose for nearly everything just like a human hospital.

Be that as it may, the vet did the surgery just as Vicki described and although I got the little guy in just as soon as I realized there was a problem, he died of septicemia anyway even though his bladder hadn't burst. It was a tough go for him and emotional for me and the lady who treated him. A private vet probably wouldn't have time for the post op care it requires and in the long run, euthanasia would be kinder and cheaper of money and emotions if he were a pet.

Ammonium chloride does help prevent the problem if you know the animal is from a line prone to it. I seem to remember Laurie, the vet, telling me that such surgery is pretty commonplace in feedlots where steers are pushed for growth and finish.

Sometimes, I'd like to throttle the guy who said "It's better to have loved and lost..." but I know he was right.

-- marilyn (rainbow@ktis.net), July 03, 2000.

I have watched friends with show goats spend Lots of money trying to save their bucks ,just to have them die anyway. This may seem brutal but put him down, save him and you a lot of pain. I would and have done the same..watch the diet from now on. Sorry KD

-- Karen Duby (k_seeker50@yahoo.com), July 07, 2000.

Please let us know how it turns out.

-- Ken Scharabok (scharabo@aol.com), July 08, 2000.

Another reply, better late than never! But...for future reference...

In wethers and bucks who have a urinary blockage, before a vet has to do the complete "sex change" surgery, they should try to remove the pupis (the little stringy thing at the end of the penis). They pull the outer fold of skin back and snip this off. It's not as easy as it sounds and the goat would be lightly sedated for this. This is often where the first piece of calculi will get stuck.

Second, males can have grain, but ammonium chloride should be mixed into the grain. On roughly a 500 pound batch of grain, I have 6 pounds of A.C. added and haven't had problems since. More is not better in the respect the A.C. is not very palatable.

You can also add vinigar (apple cider) to the drinking water. I would buy it by the gallon and add a cup or two to a 20 qt. pail. All of the goats seem to like this, but also keep a bucket of fresh plain water available too.

Lastly, there is a product called Uro-Eze (tablets) that I've seen used on goats and there were remarkable results. A large wether would start out with I think, 15 tablets a day. I'm not sure whether this is an RX product or not.

The most important thing is to get that A.C. into the grain mix. They can get Urinary calculi even if they aren't on grain. It's also good for the does. They too can get Urinary Calculi, but the incidence of blockage is less likely, although it does happen! Hope this helps!!

Diana H

-- Diana H (GoteHead5@aol.com), January 11, 2001.