I'm working on a series that needs more warmth than the Ilford MG WT and Dektol or Zonal Pro combination I normally use. I've done sepia (not the right feel), but not other toners. Can anyone make some recommendations of toners to try, or other combinations of papers/developers/toners to consider (although I know the Ilford well and a don't really want to move away from it unless necessary. Thanks.

-- Allen Birnbach (allenb@indra.com), June 29, 2000

Answers

Tone Ilford WT in selenium toner 1:4 for about eight minutes.

For a lighter brown, try Agfa Viradon.

-- John Hicks (jbh@magicnet.net), June 29, 2000.

>Tone Ilford WT in selenium toner 1:4 for about eight minutes.

What adjustments,if any, are you making to the print (exposure time, soup time) when adding the selenium toning step?

>For a lighter brown, try Agfa Viradon.

Is this a developer or toner?

Thanks.

-- Allen Birnbach (allenb@indra.com), June 29, 2000.

> What adjustments

Usually none. WT does dry down a bit, so beware that.

> Agfa Viradon.

Toner. Use it in a well-ventilated place.

-- John Hicks (jbh@magicnet.net), June 29, 2000.

Allen, I have been using Kodak PolyToner for ages with Ilford paper, both RC and Fiber. It is a little unpredictable, and does best at high dilution - chris

-- Christian Harkness (chris.harkness@eudoramail.com), June 29, 2000.

How about a warm tone developer?

-- Patric (jenspatric@mail.bip.net), June 30, 2000.

My favourite kind of "warmth" in prints come with graded papers with high silver content developed in diluted developer (Paterson Acuprint 1+19). It gives an old- fashioned, friendly look. However, it will not be similar to warmtone VC-paper.

To your specific question: Forte Polygrade warmtone is warmer than Ilford Multigrade Warmtone (both fiber papers) and reacts even stronger to toning.

-- Peter Olsson (peter.olsson@lulebo.se), June 30, 2000.

Peter Olsson wrote: Forte Polygrade warmtone is warmer than Ilford Multigrade Warmtone (both fiber papers) and reacts even stronger to toning.

As I haven't worked with Forte before, can you tell me a bit about it in comparison to the Ilford MG WT in regards to contrast range, speed, developing time, dry down, and richness. Thanks.

-- Allen Birnbach (allenb@indra.com), June 30, 2000.

I use the Developer LPD (which is either Edwal or Ethol) at a 1:6 dilution. Coupled with Forte or your Ilford would get better warm tones. LPD is a cold tone to warm tone developer that changes with dilution. Longer lasting and better gradations than Dektol! Scott

-- Scott Walton (scotlynn@shore.net), June 30, 2000.

I've just started working with the G surface of Polymax Fine Art.Tried Dektol, it's ok but a bit flat & greenish. I'm now using Edwal Platinum so far so good, it is an interesting effect, a cold tone emulsion on a cream paper base getting a very pleasant effect with a 3 min dev.time.

-- Robert Orofino (rorofino@iopener.net), June 30, 2000.

I use Zonal Pro HQ or Agfa Neutol WA for a really good warm tone on Forte Polywarmtone paper. If anyone can help me I am looking for a toner that produces a buttery warmtone to paper. A slight yellow creamy color. James

-- james (james_mickelson@hotmail.com), July 01, 2000.

Agfa Portriga Rapid developed in Ansel Adams' Ansco 130 Variant, toned in Kodak Selenium Toner (1:15) for 1-2 minutes would be my choice. You can use Kodak Brown Toner instead of the selenium if you want real brown.

Have you tried toning the Ilford MG WT in selenium at 1:4? It looks a lot like the Portriga above, only with a whiter paper base.

-- Ed Buffaloe (edbuffaloe@unblinkingeye.com), July 02, 2000.

Allen, I'm no Expert but I do use both papers and there is a noticable difference. The Forte (Polygrade warmtone FB) has less contrast range than Ilford Wt FB. It's difficult to squeeze out a high contrast print from a low contrast negative. Developing and fixing time are as with traditional graded fb-papers, about 2 minutes in the developer (Agfa Neutol WA, Paterson Acuprint for instance) and then, after stop bath, a traditional long fixing time in non-rapid fixer without hardener (since you probably want to tone the print). This is a very rich paper, deep blacks, smooth midtones, creamy whites.

Before I continue to sound like I sell this stuff let me mention one bad aspect of this paper: it doesn't come out flat from the box if you have a dry climate. One really needs a heavy printing easel to flatten this paper out, during the mentioned conditions. Compare this to for instance the cold tone Kodak Polymax FB which is almost perfectly flat even during winter ( = dry air ).

Now on with the positives. I have made prints from the same negative with this paper and on Ilford MG warm tone FB. I much prefer the skin tones I could get with Forte than those on Ilford. This is a matter of taste, my girl prefer Ilford. The Forte paper is made to be manipulated it seems, it's sensitive to most things, developer, developer temperature, etc. More so than other variable contrast papers. I have even got some nice warm/cold prints on this paper, i.e. an image that is both warm and cold in tone.

The dry down effect is visible and will bring out some more details and lower contrast a bit.

Lastly, my favourite aspect of the Forte polygrade warmtone is it's luminousity, the images have a beatiful shine to them when printed on this paper in the glossy version (the only version I have tried) and air-dried.

-- Peter Olsson (peter.olsson@lulebo.se), July 03, 2000.

Coming back to this thread for some additional information. When I toned the Forte Polywarmtone in Kodak Rapid Selenium toner, 1+9 dilution, the shadows turned to a red tone. The highlights were less affected, at the time I snatched the print out of the toner. Perhaps this is what is referred to as a "split-toning"-effect?

When I get time I'll experiment more with this paper and Selenium at different toning times.

-- Peter Olsson (peter.olsson@lulebo.se), November 07, 2000.