So, I went searching for the drugs thread, and noticed that Gwen placed it in the "Sins" category. I was thinking, hey, I hardly consider my past drug use sinful. Then I started thinking about how marijuana is illegal, and I started getting really mad. (Not at you, Gwen, it's not your fault.) Here's a drug that is far less dangerous than alcohol, and here we are putting people in jail for being in possession of it. This really does not seem to me to be the best use of my tax money... and what's so bad at marijuana, anyway, that people have to be punished so for using it? I'm perplexed. Some insights?

-- Anonymous, June 27, 2000

Answers

Pearl, Thank you! I was just thinking about this tonight. I have had a really rough past couple of days-very tense and all that. It suddenly dawned on me that what I'd really like is...a joint. But I can't have one, can I? I can drive to the grocery store, buy my own keg plus ten bottles of hard liquor but it's illegal to have one damn joint in my car/house/body. I used to smoke quite a bit in high school and college but I guess the last time I smoked any was over ten years ago. That is just sad. Why the hell is it illegal?

-- Anonymous, June 28, 2000

I made the Sins category all tongue-in-cheek. I don't think sex is a sin, but I'll put the sex topics there, too.

Okay... when was marijuana legislated into illegality? I think that'll give us our answer. Coz I'm sure it was something totally political.

-- Anonymous, June 28, 2000

I think they made it illegal because it would be almost impossible to control who and where it is grown. (i.e. I have known many, many people who grew it in their closets) Therefore, impossible to tax it. Just my 2 cents. :o) But wouldn't it be nice to sit back, relax and enjoy a big fatty?

-- Anonymous, June 28, 2000

Actually, in Kansas, where I am from, there is a marijuana tax. When they bust you for posession they will also bust you for not having your marijuana tax stamp. Basically it is double jeapordy. I agree that pot is less destructive than alchohol and should be legal. But for my own personal sanity I'm glad that it isn't, or I'd never be sober. The main reason I don't smoke anymore is because I can't find it! But my compulsiveness shouldn't spoil everybody else's fun.

-- Anonymous, June 28, 2000

Pot was legal until the 1930s, after Prohibition failed. The women with nothing to do after alcohol was legalized again decided that marijuana was the next "evil" to get rid of. It's movies like Reefer Madness that kept it illegal! Just kidding. I guess since everyone had their cigarettes and liquor no one really fought to re-legalize marijuana.

-- Anonymous, June 28, 2000

Marajuana is illegal because it is a mood/mind altering drug. Plain and simple. If it were legalized, it would run rampant...more so than it is now. It's bad enough that children have to by pass dealers on the way to school, but what if they had to face it in the stores? It would be a whole new cigarette situation....If you need to relax, go to a spa, read a book, get a massage....JUST PUT DOWN THE FATTY!

-- Anonymous, June 28, 2000

Saying that marijuana should be legalized because it's less dangerous than tobacco kinda ignores the point that there's plenty of room for 'less dangerous' under tobacco while still being in the range of 'really not good for you.' Bear in mind that if Aspirin were submitted to the FDA today, it would get rejected as an over-the- counter drug (it does about nine different things to you, and only 5 are good.).

-- Anonymous, June 28, 2000

Shanna, a few questions for you:

What are your thoughts on why altering one's consciousness/mood is necessarily a bad thing?

Do you feel the same way about legal consciousness-altering substances such as alcohol and mood-altering substances such as Prozac and St. John's Wort?

-- Anonymous, June 28, 2000

Colin -- I'm afraid I didn't quite get your point. Clarify?

-- Anonymous, June 28, 2000

Patty, don't you think that if marijuana were legalized and regulated that most people would be too damn lazy to grow it themselves? Especially in our culture in which convenience is king... I mean, you can make your own alcohol, soap, and grow your own broccoli, but hardly anybody does that, except those few who take pleasure in the process of making something for themselves.

As for the supposition that legalization would make marijuana use more widespread... if that's true, I'm wondering now what it is says about our society that so many people feel they need the effects of any substance/practice that alters mood or consciousness. And why is a practice deemed more acceptable than a substance, anyway? Is it the idea that we are weak and bad if we feel we need outside assistance?

-- Anonymous, June 28, 2000

Just because some harmful substances are legal, doesn't mean that we should add more to the list...If you want to smoke pot, maybe go somewhere out of the country like Amsterdam or California (ha!)

-- Anonymous, June 28, 2000

Hasn't anybody noticed that when there is an influx of drugs into a neighborhood that other types of crime (like burglary, theft, robbery), run rampant? This is because people who use drugs, including some who use marijuana, quite frequently can't keep a job. Very often they turn to crime to finance their appetite for drugs. That's why pot is illegal.

-- Anonymous, June 28, 2000

Alcohol is far more addictive than pot, so the idea that our society would quit functioning in favor of kicking back with a fatty and a plate of nachos just does not fly. In fact, typically a city experiences a financial set back (industry moves out, factories shut down) then the drugs come in. There is no way that Wall Street is going to become a hotbed of crack because the economy there is thriving. When businesses leave is when the problems begin.

I think pot being illegal makes as much sense as alchohol being illegal. People consue mind altering substances all the time (ever eaten a 1/2 pound of chocolate-whoa), it's just a matter of what we are raised with as "normal".

-- Anonymous, June 28, 2000

Shanna, those are the stupidest, most cliche arguments I've ever seen. Get a clue and start arguing from some other book than I've Never Thought Hard About It 101.

-- Anonymous, June 28, 2000

Michael, you too.

You'll notice that you both have this tendency to want to regulate "other people"'s behavior for "their own good." Oh, "they" might run rampant (for god's sake, could you two think of a different cliche to use than "run rampant"? I mean, really, have either of you EVER seen people stoned on pot running ANYWHERE?) Oh, "they" need regulation. For their own good, because in your judgement, they can't regulate themselves. And that's what every single prohibition movement (in this country that LOVES to prohibit, even though it does not now and never has worked) is all about: regulating the behavior of "them." Which, when it comes down to it, is as lousy, condescending and vainglorious an impulse as I can think of. Not to mention often racist and classist.

Well, with respect, screw that. Who gave either of you the blueprint for perfect life and omniscient judgement, stamped "APPROVED" in big red letters by the Hand of God?

Please.

-- Anonymous, June 28, 2000

Pearl--

The dividing line between whether or not something should be legal isn't whether or not it will kill you. It's supposed to be, whether or not it's probably bad for you. Flame me down to the molecular level, but last I heard, people who smoked weed as much as people smoke cigarettes tended to be in pretty bad shape. I'm not saying peopl would be smoking 2 packs a day, but rather that regular weed smokers would be stoned for several hours every day, and that kind of constant use has been demonstrated to have long-term undesirable effects. I didn't bring my slides with me today, so I can't cite any references, but all the dopers I knew in high school were dumber when they left than when they arrived.

Remember Red Dye #2? If someone drank an entire soda can of the dye every day for 30 years, there was a 15% chance of getting cancer. Instant banishment, regardless of how dangerous the stuff was in normal human doses. Sure, for a great many people, normal dosage of weed wouldn't have an overwhelming impact, but the fact remains that, for some people, it would be very bad indeed if it were available at any convenience store.

Also, do you want marijuana smoking targeted at kids the way cigarettes were? Thanks, big tobacco!

-- Anonymous, June 28, 2000

On the lighter side... (ahem)

This is a spoken word recording by Bill Hicks (one of the funniest comedians who ever lived) on the topic:

http://www.mp3lit.com/nonfiction/bhicks.html

-- Anonymous, June 28, 2000

Hold on just a second there, Shiva. I consider myself a staunch civil libertarian, but it's not as simple as you're making it out to be. For example, do you think it's okay for companies to manufacture high nicotine cigarettes? If people want to buy them, why not? Who are you to decide what people should and should not do? What about heroin? Should we legalize that too? Maybe sell it at the corner store? Why not?

While I firmly believe in civil liberties I think we do have to recognize that society must protect those who cannot protect themselves.

-- Anonymous, June 28, 2000

For anyone really interested in learning about what is actually going on instead of repeating the rhetoric drummed into them by the drug czars, go to www.norml.org. For starters, read about how new FEDERALLY commissioned reports reaffirm marijuana has medicinal value. In line with that, voters in Alaska, Arizona, California, Oregon, Maine, Nevada, and Washington have approved legislation allowing marijuana use for medical reasons, but the "Feds" have overrun them time after time. This is a clear case of a democracy gone wrong...when voters tell the government what they want and the government says "no, sorry...wrong answer". I find that really disturbing.

I like smoking pot. But as I've gotten older, I just can't smoke as much or smoke as often. Gradually I enjoy it less and less, probably in direct proportion with how busy my life is. And gee, guess what? I've never been arrested, I've never been homeless, I've never lost my job or been disciplined due to drug or alcohol abuse, I've never committed a crime to support my "habit", I've never craved something "stonger", I've never become violent, I've never been in a traffic accident or been arrested for being under the influence; I have a great job, great marriage, terrific son, and live in a beautiful town (in California, yes). And surprise, surprise...I know dozens of people who smoke pot who also have never had any of these things happen to them. Yes, I know a few potheads who aren't motivated and spend too much time sleeping and too little time working. Coincidentally, they also drink too much. So which is it? The alcohol or the pot? And speaking of alcohol...why can some people stop after one or two drinks, and others drink until they are drunk? Why do some people abuse alcohol and others don't? Is the answer to stopping alcohol abuse to make booze illegal? Is the answer to stopping gun violence or abortion to make them illegal? What are we really fighting here?

To say that drugs cause violence is to completely overlook the fact that people are drawn to dealing drugs because there is a great deal of money to be made because the drugs are not legal and so can be sold at extremely high prices. It's basic economic principle.

Is marijuana illegal because it alters the mind? Because it is unsafe? No, it is illegal because of ignorance. People fear what they do not understand. Do your research about the laws and history, go smoke a joint, then get back to me. And please don't read to me from your D.A.R.E. manual, it really sickens me.

Can you spell P-R-O-P-A-G-A-N-D-A?

-- Anonymous, June 28, 2000

Colin -- got it. I agree with your first assertion. And I dont see that anyone was claiming that the dividing line between whether or not something should be legal is whether or not it will kill you. Rather, my point in the beginning (with the referrence to alcohol as being legal and potentially very dangerous) was simply that there is a huge bit of hypocrisy happening in the minds of anti-drug crusaders in that they do not generally consider the consumption of alcohol to be an evil, but they do consider smoking marijuana to be so. Even if you are a teetotaller, and recognize that alcohol can be extremely dangerous, youre probably not going to think that your neighbors who have a glass of wine with dinner is doing something bad and should be punished for it; but you may go into a tizzy and call the DEA if you see a marijuana plant growing in their backyard. With marijuana being less dangerous than alcohol, its an illogical position to be in.

As for your experiences with stoners, I cant say I share those experiences. The particular sub-culture you live in has everything to do with how a particular substance is viewed and dealt with. For instance, I have never known a person such as those you describe. However, the majority of people I know do smoke pot occasionally or regularly. Off the top of my head, they include: a city planner, two doctors, a geological surveyor, an archeologist, a farmer, a graphic artist, a midwife, a computer programmer, a building contractor, a museum display manufacturer, a restaurant owner. They are a group of college graduates, some with MAs and PhDs, and most are in professional fields. They all lead productive lives. Your personal experience is valid, but theres no reason to assume that its therefore an objective assessment of the nature of the drug and its supposed necessary effect on society.

Lets see: Red Dye #2. If an individual thought that they would gain benefit from use of it, they should not be prohibited from using it, no matter how dangerous. Refined sugar also has a deleterious effect on many individuals, but to my knowledge it hasn't been banned yet. There are many things that are bad for some people and not others; the point is that we should all have the freedom to make our own choices about these things. The children and drugs argument is similarly difficult to support, it seems to me. There are many things I dont want my children exposed to: erotica, alcohol, tobacco. The fact that these things are targeted at children is a problem with the society that worships money above all else; it does not follow that these things are inherently evil. They are simply not meant for children; how is it then that an informed, responsible, mature adult should have no access to them, either?

(And my gosh, why would I want to flame you? Theres no need to be so defensive!)

-- Anonymous, June 28, 2000

There may be a line to draw, but, Dave, who makes the call? Are you going to be the one to tell me that it's in my best interest that I don't smoke pot, and that you're going to force me not to under threat of imprisonment? Gee, thanks! What would I do without guys like you looking out for me!

-- Anonymous, June 28, 2000

What would I do without guys like you looking out for me!

Heroin?

-- Anonymous, June 28, 2000

Heroin and other opiates are in a completely different class from marijuana, due to the fact that they are highly physically addictive and have very few beneficial uses, apart from being effective as painkillers (and even then, I'd personally use an alternative if available.) I'm not particularly interested in supporting my junkie neighbor with my tax dollars through public assistance, which is very likely when the drug of choice is heroin. I tend to be pretty intolerant when people know how dangerous something is and they do it anyway, and then expect me to support them when they can no longer take care of themselves.

However, I'm not sure how, practically speaking, prohibition helps matters. Certainly it doesn't stop people from dealing and using, and it promotes organized crime, which I think we all agree is not too desirable.

-- Anonymous, June 28, 2000

Dave Van, I appreciate that you fancy yourself a civil libitarian but doesn't that go directly against "protecting" your fellow citizens (me) from occasionaly getting stoned? I mean, you either think the average citizen can make informed choices or you don't-which is it?

-- Anonymous, June 28, 2000

If I may offer a very simple answer, completely my own opinion, no scientific fact involved...

I like smoking pot, but I can live without it. I'm terribly paranoid and I live in fear that someday, somehow, I am going to get busted. But I do it anyway. Why? Because I _like_ it. I like how I feel when I'm stoned. I've never tried another drug in all my life. I've never even taken a drag off a cigarette. And I have no desire to do those things.

Last night, my boyfriend met my friend Mark for the first time. After they'd been talking for a couple hours, he asked Mark, "Do you smoke weed?" Mark looked at him like he was going to get up and pull a cop out of the closet. I'm not that hesitant to admit that I smoke. I don't think I should be ashamed of it. I don't understand why some people are.

The simple truth is, in my mind, that I don't think I'm doing anything wrong. I know I'm doing something illegal, but I don't think it's wrong.

-- Anonymous, June 29, 2000

Shiva, you made me laugh my ass off. I am so down with you, Pearl, & Laura F. It's shocking to me how many Puritans are lurking around here.

-- Anonymous, June 29, 2000

I mean, you either think the average citizen can make informed choices or you don't-which is it?

Neither one. That's exactly what I'm saying, that it's not so black and white. There are things people can make informed choices about and things they cannot. To simply say, with much self-righteous indignation, that "the government should not decided what we can and cannot do," is an gross oversimplification.

Almost everyone who tries heroin becomes addicted. Clearly nobody decides to become a junkie, so how can you say they are making an informed choice?

I don't really have a firm opinion about marijuana. Maybe it should be legal, maybe it shouldn't. I'm not an expert (it's very hard to cut through the rhetoric on both sides of this one). I do feel it shouldn't be illegal, simply because it's more trouble than it's worth.

The U.S. "war on drugs" is absurd. To put people in jail and give them criminal records for this stuff is just plain stupid. Surely running a stop sign is more dangerous to the general public -- why do we treat traffic offences so much lighter than trafficking? The punishments absolutely do not fit the crime. I think the war on drugs has ruined many more lives than the drugs themselves would if they were legal, or, at the very least, penalties were not so harsh.

Finally, to answer pearl's original question, "why is marijuana illegal?" We can only assume that is what the American people want.

-- Anonymous, June 29, 2000

"Finally, to answer pearl's original question, "why is marijuana illegal?" We can only assume that is what the American people want"

Okay, this made me laugh outloud. I don't know why pot was originally made illegal but I do not beleive for one minute that the majority of the American people believe it should be illegal now. Something like 70% of Americans think that flag buring should be protected speech but every election year Senate and Congress try to make it illegal so they can appear "patriotic". Nearly every politician is scared to death of appearing soft on drugs so the chances of pot being made legal are slim to none. There are a few lone voices of reason out there, espcially as people are waking up to the fact that the war on drugs as been a spectacularly expensive failure but for the most part people are caught between what they know is reasonable and the far right's love affair with our "war on drugs"

-- Anonymous, June 29, 2000

If you "do not beleive for one minute that the majority of the American people believe it should be illegal," perhaps you could explain to me why "nearly every politician is scared to death of appearing soft on drugs."

That just doesn't add up.

-- Anonymous, June 29, 2000

Actually, it does -- if you take the time to think about how the round-the-clock, gotta-have-a-story media works. Not to mention how the spin doctors can warp the hell out of a politician's beliefs and statements. Any politician who stands up for the decriminalisation of cannabis will inevitably be portrayed as a hippie who's still stuck in the 60's and wants to let everyone get high on whatever they want.

Actually, though, I think the politicians don't want to appear soft on crime, and having a tolerant stance on cannabis is interpreted -- both by the spin doctors and a lot of people who lack critical thinking skills -- as a tolerant stance on the crime that drug trafficking brings with it.

-- Anonymous, June 29, 2000

As long as pot is illegal, I'll have a sure-fire way to keep getting out of jury duty. I've been pulled for six panels, and each time, one of the questions has been "Do you believe marijuana should be legalized?" Every time, I've answered yes, and every time, the prosecutor has smiled and had me excused.

Guess they don't want "my type" deciding the fate of trials. The funny part is, pot doesn't do anything for me, 'cept one time it made me paranoid at Arby's. ("What do you mean, 'Can I take your order, ma'am?'!!!"). But since alcohol is legal and I think it does a LOT more damage than pot (ever seen a stoned person turn mean? I haven't, but I've seen a lot of mean drunks.), having it illegal just doesn't make sense to me.

-- Anonymous, June 29, 2000

Some states have held votes to allow the medicinal use of marijuana for terminally ill people. These have passed by around 57% in favor. Do you really think a vote on the outright legalization would gain majority support? No way.

By the way, here in Canada the legalization of marijuana has much greater public support (although I'm still not sure it's a majority). The point is considered somewhat moot, however, since the U.S. would never allow that to happen.

And yes, Mary Ellen, the general consensus among the scientific community is that pot is safer than cigarettes or alcohol.

-- Anonymous, June 29, 2000

oops...

-- Anonymous, June 29, 2000

I can't find the actual email to post a direct quote, but my Dad -- who always told us he'd much rather have us smoke cannabis than drink alcohol -- recently said to me that he'd also rather be around people who were stoned than people who were stinking drunk.

Not necessarily relevant to the discussion, but yet more proof that my Dad rocks.

-- Anonymous, June 29, 2000

So, would smoking pot be worse than, say, taking pictures of your nether-regions and emailing them to strangers over the internet? Just wondering.

-- Anonymous, June 30, 2000

Sigh.

-- Anonymous, June 30, 2000

I'm with Shanna on this one ... Shiva, try and state your point without being abusive, huh?

Pearl asked the question What are your thoughts on why altering one's consciousness/mood is necessarily a bad thing?

Um, how about the fact that people who smoke pot don't just always stick to a couple of drags before they go to a concert? Heavy use of this drug kills a lot of brain cells, and I can remember a case in New Zealand a few years back where a guy who was a heavy heavy user (and didn't use anything else) beat his stepson to death while high.

I can understand the attitude that it's a less harmful drug than alcohol, because casual users just get a bit of a buzz off it and don't usually become aggressive, but don't kid yourself into thinking there are no averse side-effects.

It's not just a cliched argument to say that just because some harmful things are legal, all harmful things should be legal. Otherwise, should we make everything legal and be done with it? Yes, that would be a good idea ...

-- Anonymous, July 03, 2000

Well, the key word there was necesssarily...

I've heard there are people that think that because marijuana is an herb, that means that it can't possibly hurt you. Which is just about the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Plenty of natural substances that do not have a negative effect in small doses do in large doses. And just about every substance is going to affect different body chemistries/states of mind differently. I've known a few people that got HYPER from smoking small amounts of pot. (None of them liked that effect, and haven't smoked since.) I've known a few people (all men) who get mean. Some people get paranoid. I get introspective and sleepy. The vast majority (in my experience) just get mellowed. Most of them are doing damage to their lungs (although less than commercial tobacco and clove cigarettes.) Some of them are doing long-term damage to their brains. I mean, who is so stupid that they don't know this stuff? Well, probably the same people who think they can drive after they've been drinking. Stupid people exist, I guess. :P

So maybe my question should have been: why is altering one's consciousness/mood in itself necessarily a bad thing? I was hoping to make a distinction between that and the usually negative physiological effects, in order to determine what exactly it was that the anti-druggers in this thread were arguing against. In other words: is marijuana worth imprisonment because it gives you a new perspective on "reality"? Or is it because it inhibits your reflexes? Or is it because one out of a million users will feel free to let loose their demons?

I guess all these questions apply also to peyote, LSD, mushrooms, etc.

-- Anonymous, July 03, 2000

Or is it because it inhibits your reflexes?

Yes. I don't want people in a state of altered consciousness driving cars or operating heavy machinery anywhere near me.

Or is it because one out of a million users will feel free to let loose their demons?

Yes. It just takes one guy to decide, in his state of altered consciousness, that the car he's driving would work better on the footpath, and all hell will break lose.

-- Anonymous, July 04, 2000

In Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, Hunter Thompson recalled an incident in a club in San Francisco in the mid-1960's. He was in the men's room, and was sharing a couple of doses of LSD with a hippy, when one of the doses had broken on Thompson's sleeve. At that moment, a stranger had entered the men's room, to see the hippy munching powder off of another man's sleeve. Thompson then tried to imagine, from the stranger's perspective, the effect witnessing such a repulsive scene had on him. For me, consciousness expanding doesn't give a license for repulsive behavior, so it's never been a big issue for me to abstain from alcohol or drugs. I won't even take an aspirin if I catch a cold.

Having said that, I don't think marijuana should be illegal. Criminalizing the supply does nothing to diminish demand. That's why Prohibition didn't work. It's like trying to criminalize sex outside of marriage. The activity itself has outlasted the Puritans who punished who did so. It's stupid, and it doesn't work. To do so is to willfully deny the basic dynamics of supply and demand, not understanding that as long as the demand remains unattended to, breaking the law is only then introduced to the individual as an option to fulfill the craving. Do we need to be quarantining people in prison just because they can't control their craving for a vice of questionable harm?

Cigarettes kill 200,000 Americans a year, four times the number of deaths in the entire US participation in the Vietnam War. If you're going to start removing people from the gene pool like that, smokers and jaywalkers should be given a higher rank in the queue to quarantine than pot smokers. That teenager driving his mom's fucking SUV is going to kill me 600 times before his New Zealand stoner friend kills me even once. And speaking of sex outside of marriage, it's estimated that about 20% of the population of Africa is HIV-positive. I'll bet those Puritans could have prevented this, if they had the decency to burn every adulterer before their faith died out.

I'll say it again: Criminalizing the supply of a vice does nothing to diminish demand. To do so is to willfully deny the basic dynamics of supply and demand itself. It's stupid, and it doesn't work.

[Hey, Jackie Collins! How ya doin'? You sent me private e-mail, and posted to a public forum my reply, which I hadn't intended to stand on its own for public scrutiny. You like your games fixed, don't you?]

-- Anonymous, July 04, 2000

That line would probably read better as The activity itself has outlasted the Puritans who punished others for it.

-- Anonymous, July 04, 2000

[Hey Mike Leung! You brought that on yourself by dragging me into your discussions with other people and forwarding me completely irrelevant emails! I'd forgotten about you ... suggest you do the same about me.]

-- Anonymous, July 04, 2000

[Jackie Collins, you are a bold faced liar. First you emailed me on 17 May, then I replied, then you posted here on 18 May. Then in replying to someone else's e-mail, I CC'd you a copy to give you a more complete explanation to your first e-mail. I didn't even know who the fuck you were before 17 May. But you're right. I can forget about it now that you've revealed how much more you like the fixed game than the truth.]

-- Anonymous, July 04, 2000

[You didn't like my reply to your first e-mail, so instead of following up with me, you made it public. For your sake, I hope you are an attractive woman, because it must be difficult enough for you without a no spine.]

-- Anonymous, July 04, 2000

[I wrote that in haste, but I think we all know what you are.]

-- Anonymous, July 04, 2000

This is getting ugly and tense. I think y'all need to relax and enjoy a fatty.

-- Anonymous, July 05, 2000

Mike, you need to understand ... I don't care. I think you're unbalanced and in need of help. I have nothing more to say to you.

Back to our regularly scheduled programme ...

-- Anonymous, July 05, 2000

Mike, with all due respect, do you really need to drag your online fights onto Gwen's forum? I think she deserves a bit more consideration than that, especially since she's out of town (of which you, like the rest of us, are fully aware).

-- Anonymous, July 05, 2000

Y'all don't make me turn this car around, you hear?

-- Anonymous, July 05, 2000

[With all due respect, I'm not doing anything Jackie didn't do to me. If she didn't care, then why the lie?]

-- Anonymous, July 05, 2000

I repeat:

Mike, with all due respect, do you really need to drag your online fights onto Gwen's forum? I think she (Gwen) deserves a bit more consideration than that, especially since she (Gwen) is out of town (of which you, like the rest of us, are fully aware).

-- Anonymous, July 05, 2000

Damn, I saw all the new messages in my e-mail and thought there must be a really good discussion going on here! *sigh*

So use of marijuana is worth imprisonment because it inhibits reflexes and reportedly can have an undesirable psychological effect on some people. So Jackie, just curious, do you drink? Know anybody who does? Is alcohol use worth imprisonment because it inhibits reflexes and can have an undesirable psychological effect on some people?

There are plenty of things that can have psychological and/or physiological effects that would make operating heavy machinery (for instance) a bad idea; should these be illegal as well? Hypnosis? Psychotherapy? Deep massage? Meditation? Many prescription drugs? How about breaking up with your boyfriend? Going through the Scientology auditing process? Going to church and speaking in tongues? Being hopped up on caffeine? Eating badly?

I'll make an example of that last one: my body chemistry is such that the ingestion of refined sugar strongly affects my mood, perception of reality, and my reflexes. From experience, I now know better than to drive when I haven't had more than doughnuts to eat for breakfast, or when I've had a bunch of macaroni & cheese for dinner. Surely I'm not the only one? I wonder how many accidents are due to having whacky blood sugar... I can guarantee that my friend who has a glass of wine (or a toke, for that matter) with dinner every evening before going to bed is of much less risk to the world than me with my whacked blood sugar. Yet I'd be laughed at if I suggested that refined sugar be made illegal, simply ecause it is potentially dangerous if used unwisely by certain individuals.

From my perspective, then, the fear of marijuana use is completely out of proportion to its actual danger. And how is it just to penalize those who can use it (or any other potentially dangerous substance) responsibly, because of the few who use it as an excuse to behave irresponsibly?

-- Anonymous, July 05, 2000

Jackie wrote: Or is it because it inhibits your reflexes? Yes. I don't want people in a state of altered consciousness driving cars or operating heavy machinery anywhere near me.

Or is it because one out of a million users will feel free to let loose their demons? Yes. It just takes one guy to decide, in his state of altered consciousness, that the car he's driving would work better on the footpath, and all hell will break lose.

The same thing could be said of antihistamines or any number of over the counter drugs. Different herbs and/or man made drugs have vastly different effects on different people. For instance, Nyquil puts me into a coma, it makes my DH hyper and it give my sister than oft advertised "good night's sleep".

Marijuana may indeed have some possible bad effects but it also has some very good benefits. I have (mostly) law abiding friends who use marijuana to control migraines, nasuea and other ailments. Further, if John Doe across the street can legally come home and have an occasional gin and tonic to relax, why can't I legally have an occasional joint?

As long as we are trusting people to not chug a bottle of gin or Vicks44 before driving or operating dangerous machinery, then I don't see where marijuana is any different.

-- Anonymous, July 13, 2000

I apologize for being abusive, but that kind of logic really kind of gets me fired up, not to make a pun.

Here's a good link for those interested in why marijuana is illegal.

Okay, carry on.

-- Anonymous, July 18, 2000

Actually, this one is better because it has Professor Whitebread's extemporaneous comments, which are quite penetrating and to the point. Not to mention entertaining. The first link was a sort of dry legal research doc.

-- Anonymous, July 18, 2000

Thanks for the links. I just skimmed it but it looks like a great article. By the way, it is just me or is does that background make the article really hard to read? Why do people do that???

-- Anonymous, July 26, 2000

I am actually doing a paper on how there should be harsher punishments towards marijuana users and distributers because it is obvious that the current system isn't doing anything. So if I could get some more feedback, I would appreciate it.

-- Anonymous, November 07, 2000

I am actually doing a paper on how there should be harsher punishments towards marijuana users and distributers because it is obvious that the current system isn't doing anything. So if I could get some more feedback, I would appreciate it. Thank You!

-- Anonymous, November 07, 2000

I am actually doing a paper on how there should be harsher punishments towards marijuana users and distributers because it is obvious that the current system isn't doing anything. So if I could get some more feedback, I would appreciate it. Thank You!

-- Anonymous, November 07, 2000

Well, maybe if they electrocuted the old people who use it for medicinal reasons, that would be a start.

-- Anonymous, November 07, 2000

Good one, Gwen!

Yes, I always love the philosophy of, "Hey, what we're doing isn't working. Let's do some more of it and see if it suddenly works."

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2000

Marajuana first became illegal because of the competition between hemp growers and cotton growers. In our society now, we simple keep it illegal because of the fear of what users MAY become. This is a slippery slope argument! It is foolish! This is the same type of argument used by anti-abortionist, protesting the legalization of abortions. Yet did you know that the amount of abortions performed today is not higher than what it was before abortions were legalized. You simply cannot assume what people may become like or what may happen. That is underestimating human kind. People have morals and principles that are the basis of their decisions. Just because cigarretes are available does not mean that everybody smokes them! By the way, I have smoked marajuana (many times, more than you can imagine), and compared to some people in my college classes who have never smoked marajuana, I score higher on test and in the class. I'm a mentally competent person, I have a job, and I don't run around causing problems. By the way, if you try to e-mail me, it probably won't work because I block senders that I don't know.

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2000

i used to smoke pto but it made me stuupid so i quit. my old bf tryed growing it but he was'nt very good at it

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2000

The reason marijuana is illegal is because it would ruin the current economic system in Canada. I personally love weed but as a business student, I have studied how the legalization of it would ruin the economy. The revenue generated by cigarette and alcohol taxes is huge. By legalizing another substitute good, the demand for the other 2 would decrease drastically until the prices of the 3 were similar. This would cause the gov't to lose huge amount of money. You will then say they can tax weed. But the question is, how much easier is it to grow weed compared to make your own alcohol or cigarettes with filters? If they taxed it too much(And increase taxes on the other things), we would be happy to grow our own shitty weed to save money. The only way that they could legalize marijuana is if they can come up with a system to make it illegal to possess non-gov't weed and actually be able to enforce it. As much as illegal weed sucks $hit, it would ruin the economy. Damn university schooling for teaching me this.

-- Anonymous, November 23, 2000

marijuana.com, it may answer any questions! A friend of mine runs the site. Smoking doesn't do it for everybody. I get a little neurotic and tend to analyze things too much, so I quit and once in a great while do I indulge. But, then again, I have friends who can smoke all day and it doesn't affect them in a negative way at all. It really is a personal thing.

-- Anonymous, November 24, 2000

I think the reason they made Marajuana Illigal is because Marajuana destroys brain cells and destroys your body.

-- Anonymous, November 30, 2000

So then why isn't alcohol illegal? I think you have a small minded approach to a policy that has many sides to it.

-- Anonymous, November 30, 2000

i think its illegal so people cant have fun. alot of people smoke it because it is illegal like in italy you can drink at any age but do you here that italy has drunks walking everywhere? no, and in amsterdam do you here that a high person went out and killed millions of red heads then had sex with there corpse, no. and somewhere in here i read that they couldnt tax it but i think that if it were legal people would stop buying from people other people because... A. the goverment would relize the profit value and grow fields and fields of it and make millions of dollors. B. because it would be more convient just to walk to a store. C. because it would probally be really really good and the they shouldnt punish us the smokers for smoking it because were not harming others and the people that choose to do it then are stopped because they or the person selling to them was caught will just find another way around ive been caught smoking ciggerates about 4x and still i smoke it maybe diffrent for others but many will come back for more so why is it illegal i dont know

-- Anonymous, December 15, 2000

Frankly, in my scientifically objective opinion, using marijuana makes people more stoopid. Let's face it, it does. I'm not saying it makes people unhappy, immoral, bad....but chronic use does not make people more quick-witted, that is for damn sure.

Whether the point in life is to maximize your brainpower is an entirely different argument. Likewise, whether it's the government's business to protect us from self-inflicted stoopidity is another argument entirely. Maybe this doesn't matter to you in the least, which is fine with me.

I don't have to know someone very well at all to be able to detect their regular marijuana use...there's something in their speech pattern and overall bearing that just tips one off,just like the lingering stale smell and slightly grey pallor to the skin reveals a heavy cigarette smoker.

Again, I'm not passing any judgement--it ain't my business what you want to do. But forums like this make me feel compelled to remind the marijuana users to not kid themselves....chronic use does do *something* to you. So quit saying it doesn't.

-- Anonymous, December 15, 2000

Yeah fruitbat, I could figure out immediately that she was smoking the happy weed too.

If you are going to try to make an educated argument for drug use, you should at least sound educated.

-- Anonymous, December 15, 2000

I think that marijuana should be legal. It would cut back on the amount of jails that we have to build to fit all the people who sll and buy marijuana. Less money in jails and more money towards making more money. I have a proposal to make that all happen. E-mail if you want to knwo what it is. Besides tobacco and alohol are the gateway drug not marijuana!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

-- Anonymous, January 09, 2001

Marajuana is a gateway illegal drug, i've seen it happen: people have it and they dont get as much out of it as they expect, and as they have already tried an illegal drug they try another, more dangerous one. If it was legal however, i think it would be a 'gateway' for less people, as everyone is scared of the law...

-- Anonymous, January 17, 2001

I think it should be legal that way there would be less people having to sneek around and stir up trouble in the streets with gangs and dealers you could do it in your own home or a bar (with another driver), that way you don't face the risk of getting shot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-- Anonymous, January 30, 2001

Well we all have wondered why marijuana is illegal. We have all made our own theories about it I have my own. Alcohol, most cant beleave that alcohol is legal and pot is not. I know why notice old alcoholic husbands beat their wifes and kids, it makes you violent, what does the leaders of this country want they want a bunch of alcohol driven pawns so they can fight the wars they start. If people started smoking then they would become more peaceful, they would not want a "softer" nation, and thats would not be in the "best interests" of the country. Its all political bullshit.

-- Anonymous, January 31, 2001

I already submitted but i forgot to say this part, it has been proven that there are no physical addicting substance in pot, cigerettes are more addicting along with alcohol. then they give us this bullshit that its phycoligicaly addictive. yeah you could say that about anything, look at our society there are obease ppl who are addicted to food, ive seen people addicted to nasal spray, even paint. not one person has died from a marijuana overdose. one of my realitives used to smoke pot every day in large quanties and he had a heart attack, didnt even know he did, and no it was not from the pot, and when they opened up his lungs, pink healthy. ppl die from tylonol overdose, then the politicans say that our nation couldnt handle if it was legal, thats bull, in hollond 45% of high school students smoke it, in America 42%, 3% difference, yeah the war on drugs is working, total bull shit

-- Anonymous, January 31, 2001

The reason that marijuana is illegal is that when the government was writing up legislation to criminalize certain drugs for their harmful effects, they went through all known drugs and tried to classify them by what effects they had. It did not matter if the effect was mild or profound. It did not matter that the effects that they were concerned about in marijuana actually came from the THC in marijuana and are much less pronounced when they are in marijuana than in pure THC. The government just stuck marijuana on a list of other drugs that they wanted to criminalize because they were harmful to human health.

The REAL question should not be WHY they criminalized it, but what right did they have to do so? The answer to that is: None. The government's job is to protect the rights of its citizens. This includes any actions that I might take to harm another person, their family, their property, or their livelihood. By sitting in my house and smoking marijuana, I am doing none of these. If I get behind the wheel of a car loaded, lock me up and throw away the key because I'm endangering someone's life BESIDES MY OWN. But when you try to keep my from doing something and tell me that it's "for my own good", all you are doing is taking away my freedom. In this, the government is infringing on MY civil rights to do whatever I want with my body, and in this THEY are in the wrong.

The argument that "along with drugs comes crime" only holds true when the drugs are illegal. Most of the people who are in jail for posession of marijuana today are normal peace-loving adult individuals like you and me. They are taking up room in prisons that could be used to keep hard criminals. They are using taxpayer money for their care. And they are kept from being productive members of society, while murderers, thieves, and rapists go free early to make room for new "drug criminals".

Most of the crime associated with drugs is due to drug dealers fighting over territory and clientelle. Illegal drug deals gone bad. Hardened criminals doing yet another illegal task who don't care who gets hurt. You make drugs legal, and you take that away from them. You don't see gang bangers shooting each other over who can sell liquor in their neighborhood, do you? No. Why? Because I can go to my liquor store to buy liquor. I don't need a drug dealer.

Apparently, the government didn't learn from prohibition. You criminalize something that everybody wants and you immediately create more crime than you prevent. Gangsters were created by prohibition. And the war on drugs is keeping drug dealers alive. Do you think that people would really steal to get the money to buy pot if it was legal? Consider the cost. Right now, marijuana has to be either smuggled in or grown in dangerous conditions. It's sold by unscrupulous people who will kill to keep their trade. And it's a bulky product (which is why people turn to crack, not because marijuana is a "gateway drug"). So, the price of marijuana skyrockets. If it were legal, it would be as cheap as cigarettes (cheaper if the government didn't tax the hell out of it like some people want to do).

People are so easily swayed by what they hear on the news and read in the paper. Don't believe everything they say. Don't even believe everything I'm saying. Think about it for yourself. Learn more. What makes sense? That criminalizing a substance that has proven medical benefits just so you can clear your conscience of any "deaths by marijuana" (there are none). Or letting people decide for themselves how to live their own lives, which is what this country was founded on.

-- Anonymous, February 01, 2001

What about people who smoke pot in front of their children? Like cigarettes, that harms the people around you who breathe the smoke, not just the smoker. At least when you drink, only YOU are ingesting the stuff. I have known/do know people who smoke pot in front of their kids, and it really disturbs me. I would like to know what people think of this.

-- Anonymous, February 05, 2001

Hey Becky Knox and Don Allessandro Del Rubiscus. I'd just like to point out that you guys have dug into the same old propaganda that is solely responsible for the prohibition of marijuana. I am an advocate of marijuana legalization/decriminalization and have done intense research on the subject. The book "Buzzed" was written by three doctors at the Duke University Medical Center. This book focuses on the most used drugs in our society and gives STRAIT-UP FACTS about each of them. I'd like to point out that marijuana DOES NOT KILL BRAIN CELLS. The only study that showed any "evidence" of brain damage was performed in the 1970's with monkeys. These monkeys had masks strapped to their faces that delivered smoke directly into their lungs for hours at a time. The brain cells they lost were due to OXYGEN DEPRAVATION. NORML had to sue the researchers to find how they obtained their results. There have been several studies since then that show NO EVIDENCE of brain damage when a user is exposed with even a high dose of marijuana. Ahh yes.. The gateway theory. This theory and marijuana addiction have a lot in common. Though marijuana is not physically addictive, it can be mentally addictive to those who are weak-minded or have addictive personalities. I'd like to remind everybody that 100% of marijuana users experimented with other drugs first. Who never drank a coke, smoked a cigarette, or consumed alcohol before trying pot? I for one have tried marijuana and believe that it (as most naturally occuring substances) have a place in our lives. Marijuana is a theraputically benificial substance when used in moderation. One can also relieve a plethora of ailments with the herb, not to mention the abstract method of thinking that marijuana can induce. As anything (food included), I believe that marijuana should be used in moderation. No substance including marijuana has any place around children. For the person who replied with the health concerns associated with smoking marijuana, there are several other ways of consuming the plant that are harmless, or substantially less harmful than rolling a joint. A user can vaporize the marijuana to prevent some of the negative side effects associated with smoking any plant material. Extracting the THC from cannabis products is another healthier way to consume the plant. One can do this by making cannibutter or using the herb to bake. THC is also alcohol soluble. This means alcoholic beverages can extract the THC from the actual plant matter. One last rant. I think that our society has to be all or nothing as drugs are concerned. Though I'm in favor of legalization, I would be almost equally satisfied if alcohol and cigarettes were made illegal. Even more than my desire to keep the government out of my body, I seek consitency within our society. Lemme know what you think of all this, and if you are in favor of prohibition, I'll shoot you down like a bald eagle in Iraq.

-- Anonymous, February 16, 2001

Well Tacobill. Come try and shoot me down because I think you're full of shit. I smoked herb for 30 years and I'm here to tell you that it "does" have side affects. That is when I can remember what they are. And I know quite a few "strong minded" individuals that are still "addicted" to smoke. I don't in any way condemn anyone for smokin' a little for pleasure. Not in the least. But for someone to tell me it isn't a gateway drug is like telling me that you can drive after a couple of beers. I know lots of folks who drink and don't do other drugs. But I've known very few who smoked a little ganja that didn't start doing harder drugs. Stores selling booze generally don't also coke or crank. Most of the joes that sell you pot can also hook you up with some other junk. So don't think it's not a gateway drug pal. Herb has some beneficial purposes to be sure but most of the time those affects are just an excuse to smoke some dope. Lots of other legal drugs do the same thing for you. And then there is also the cost of crime associated with herb. Yeah I know. Everyone thinks only small guys like Beaver and Buttnose sell dope. Pot growing is a multi billion dollar industry controlled mainly by those same drug cartels that are shooting thousands of individuals, innocent and otherwise every year around the world. I grew up going to and through Tiajuana to go surf or get drunk at the Long Bar. The change in the place since drugs came to town is incredible. The same guys shooting people for smack and crack are the same guys running herb. Grow your own? I did that for years. Most people can't grow there own so we're back to dealers. So save your breath about how innoculous pot is. It ain't. And I don't want to be on the road with someone who just smoked a pinner that I do with someone who just drank a couple of brewskis either. That's my story and I'm stickin to it. James

-- Anonymous, February 17, 2001

Ohh... This is going to be so much fun for me James. You make some very interesting and one or two educated points. I agree that marijuana can be addictive, but I doubut anybody will be addicted if they only allow themselves to smoke, as you say, for "a little pleasure". Marijuana and alcohol have so much in common. Both are very powerful and DEFINITELY have the potential for abuse/addiction, but it is in my opinion totally possible to enjoy both responsibly. Neither of these substances are meant for everybody. And no, It is never acceptable to drive under the influence of any substance, pot included. Now onto the gateway theory in a little more detail. You argue all the same points I would about the gateway theory. You say that most of the people who can serve as a pot hook up can also get other drugs. This is entirely too true. So what's the solution for keeping people away from being exposed to other drugs when purchasing pot? I think it's extremely obvious. If we could go to a liquor store or even a pharmacy and purchase cannabis products, then there would be no exposure to the other drugs we often have chances to pick up while looking for pot. The drug cartels that you speak of also would have no chance supplying marijuana because they couldn't compete with legal prices here in the states. Are there alcohol or tobacco cartels? NO. Some people who use marijuana and go on to other drugs do so on a matter of principle (or lack their of). If you have enough disregard of the law to do an illegal drug, then you will not have any qualms with trying another. I believe that if alcohol was illegal, more people would experiment with marijuana simple because their respect for the law would decrease substantially. So in summary... Do I believe that marijuana is completely harmless and does nothing but good? NO HELL NO. It is a plant that deserves complete and total respect and is not meant for those who can't control themselves. At the same time, I base the majority of my points on the fact that our world would be better off in the long run if it were legalized. Making a substance illegal does not automatically deminish all demand. It just doesn't work that way. Some people are going to smoke pot anyway and there is nothing that ANYONE can do about it. Education is the only solution. By eliminating exposure to drug dealers and other drugs, our society will be better off. Twenty-five percent of all federal prisoners are in for marijuana related "crimes", and only eight percent of those prisoners were convicted on weapon or dealing related charges. That means that ninety-two percent of all prisoners incarcerated on marijuana charges are in for possession or something similar. Is that right? NO. The only real marijuana prevention is to make it legal and give the STRAIT facts about it. None of the same old D.A.R.E. bullshit. How many kids have told me that they listen to their D.A.R.E. officer give them this speech about why all substances are bad and then saw them sneak a cigarette? You'd be surprised. People want to know the truth and I think we deserve it. Please reply. I'm very interested/concerned with what you have to say.

-- Anonymous, February 17, 2001

Bill, having been intimately involved in herb "and" all the other drugs still around today, I will not budge from my position. Cigarettes and alcohol are big bissiness cartels as will anything else that rears it's ugly head. I used to run tons of smoke pal. I know from where I speak. I have nothing at all against smoking a little herb. In fact I abhor smoking cigarettes more than herb. But I have seen the carnage drugs cause. And smoking herb for too many was the first step down the road. Yes there are many who can smoke all their lives and do so with no ill effects,. But too many just get hung on that web and spend too much time vegging and not being as productive with their lives as they could if they didn't start in the first place. Beentoo close. Know too many dead people. That's my position. James

-- Anonymous, February 17, 2001

And I respect that position. I just see that most of these problems you have metioned would be lessened if not solved if cannabis products were made legal. So one more question for you James. Do you think it is easier to become addicted to cigarettes and alcohol or pot? Physically, of course, cigarettes are more addictive than heroin or pot. It's the psycological addiction I worry about. One more thing. You state that marijuana use was the first step to your acquaintaces downfalls. Had they never done any other drug? I just want to clear up that I in no way feel marijuana is the perfect drug and it does't have any side effects. I just feel that we need to pick our battles.

-- Anonymous, February 17, 2001

For most of my young aquaintences pot or booze were the first. Back then the age group was about 16-18. Now it's much much lower. So we make it legal. 18 year old friend goes out and buys for the young friends. They all get stoned and there goes the homework. That is one of the main symptomes of smokin dope. Lethargy. You drink and then you feel awful but you come out of it pretty quick with a headache. Pot makes you lethargic and as it builds up in the fat of your body it slowly releases into your blood and helps keep you slowed down for quite awhile. Belgium or Holland (Amsterdam I think) tried a much more liberal approach to drugs and they are still paying the price. A whole lost generation say my friends from France. What are we telling our kids about life if we make any drugs legal? They tried to prohibit alcohol but we know where that went. Having smoked ciggs for 30 years, I'd like to ban them but we know that won't work. As for all these criminals being in jail for smokin J's, I don't think so. Usually there is another much more serious crime involved. I don't have the answers by any means. But legalizing pot isn't the answer. In China you get two chances for doing drugs. After the second chance, there is no more problem. For dealing, there are no second chances. Pretty stiff and unworkable in our civilized form of justice. But legalization, I'm against it. I don't ask and I don't condemn. Simple. Lets ask all the new and young mommy's here whether they want their precious little ones smokin weed. How about it girls? Want your 10 year old smokin herb? How about your 14 year old daughters? As a young stud, I used to love to get girls high for their first time. The devil awaits me I'm sure. But remember there are a lot of worse predators out there waiting for your little young kids. We have to be careful when we talk about legalizing something. When it's legal, it becomes legal for everyone. Maybe not technically, but it's not technically legal for kids under 21 to drink either is it? James

-- Anonymous, February 17, 2001

Hmm. This is all very interesting to me. You say that 18 y/o's will go out and buy pot for kids. That is true and I'm sure it would happen, but the kids wouldn't be exposed to the dealers and the hard drugs associated with them. Why was it that it was harder to get alcohol than pot in high school? And like I said before, education is the key here. Just becuase something is legal doesn't mean 10 year olds will try and get their hands on it. I don't think it is necessarily that way with alcohol. Also, as mentioned before, these substances don't have any place around children. It should be up to the individuals and parents of individuals to control/monitor their own usage. The government has no place dealing with this issue.

-- Anonymous, February 17, 2001

Let's see here. It's been how many decades and how many celebrity deaths due to drugs, splashed all over creation, and yet somehow the youth don't get the message. Must be the drugs. It ain't the education that doesn't work. It's just the addictivness of drugs. From butts to smack. James

-- Anonymous, February 17, 2001

Responsible users do not die from marijuana use. Risks do increase when someone gets behind the wheel or tries "harder" drugs, but as mentioned previously, the operative phrase here is responsible users. Do you not see understand that their is a broad line between casual use and being a hardcore addict? I guess not. Can you not understand the fact that marijuana is less dangerous than other drugs? I guess not. You mention in an earlier post that banning cigarettes won't work. So why does banning pot work? IT DOESN'T. It would be impossible for the average cig smoker to grow enough tobacco to satisfy their addiction, but pot smokers would be fine with only a couple of plants a year. Do the math. It would actually be easier to ban cigarettes becuase no body could possible feed their habit by themselves! I seriously think that all that crank and acid you've done in the last thirty years affected you in a negative way. Maybe years of serious drug addiction/use have led you to the conclusion that drugs are completely to blame, not yourself. I don't know, just a guess. All I'm saying is that with my experience, I know I personally would be better off if marijuana was controlled like alcohol and not crack cocaine. MY TAX DOLLARS COULD GO TOWARDS MORE DESERVING CAUSES. This stuff has never got the best of me and it never will. I simply won't allow it to happen. The second I feel like marijuana is in anyway effecting my daily performance, I immediately quit, often times for months at a time. Do you not think that marijuana has a certain taboo associated with it? Many kids try it because it's illegal and they want to rebel. Many kids know their parents smoked as teenagers and college students and know that they turned out alright. I whole-heartedly believe that people don't take this drug seriously enough. That's kind of interesting that people wouldn't take marijuana seriously, but the government treats it like meth. What a backwards time we live in.

-- Anonymous, February 17, 2001

Why are there so many theories about why pot is illegal? Don't you people know how to read? Marijuana was made illegal in 1937 by Harry Anslinger. His two most famous quotes were "Big lipped niggars, sandy assed niggars, lazy spics, and perverted Greeks are smokimg marijuana and going out to rape white women" and "The niggars are smoking marijuana are sticking extra beats in between the notes of their jazz to make white women tap their feet and destroy their morals". This is our history folks; read all about it in the congressional record. To understand why he made those racist remarks you have to know a little about the person. He was the son-in-law of Andrew Melon, the millionaire financier, and was working to eliminate the competition of hemp to the petroleum, paper, and new plastics industry. Marijuana will replace 90% of ALL petroleum products and when used as a fuel, burns 98% cleaner than gasoline. The actual war on pot began with William Randolph Hearst in 1917 when he got pissed about the Pancho Villa nationalizing the forests that Hearst had claim to. At the same time Mexican businessmen were sending high quality paper, made from hemp, into the U.S. Hearst had control over most newspapers in the west and in order to get a war going with Mexico he claimed that 'marijuana crazed Mexicans were about to attack the western U.S. and would rape all the women and children on their way to Canada'. Marijauna is illegal because it interfers with the profits of specific corporatrions. NOT BECAUSE IT IS A DRUG!

-- Anonymous, February 18, 2001

Mr Gorman is very right about this subject. I suggest you follow this link to get a very good idea as to why pot is banned. Follow the trail of dollars........ http://home.yqi.com/thecorporation/ Read, learn, and enjoy!

-- Anonymous, February 18, 2001

I think that hemp was outlawed way before prohibition when they realised it was a hardy, lucrative crop, easier to grow and way cheaper than cotton, therefore bad for trade purposes, and they never got around to lifting the ban. Maybe they should have an age limit, like 21, as they do for alcohol, then they may be able to regulate it a little better- take the mystery away. I don't like it being outlawed but I don't think kids should get their grubby paws on it either. It opened the door to experimentation with other drugs, through which I survived by the skin of my teeth, and if I'd held off until I was older, it may not have been like that. (Not as bad as it sounds!) Smoking weed is a good thing to do every once in a while, when you've got nothing on your mind, but it should be used by mature individuals, not kids.

-- Anonymous, February 19, 2001

P.s. I thought that one only got thrown in to jail for possession if the stash was above a certain weight, as intent to sell. If you grow your own or sell to your buddies, you've got to know it's illegal, and use your brain, if not, then you're smoking too much of your own shit, duh.

-- Anonymous, February 19, 2001

No Bill. Your arguments about this lead me to beleive that you have never been involved with it to any extent other than to get your weed from a friend. Your knowlege of it's culture stops right at their doorstep. Trafficking in pot "is" big bussiness. The same big bussiness that kills hundreds of small and large dealers every year in this country. I have no doubt that you and many others have control of your use of drugs, be that alcohol or pot or even an occasional snort. I have nothing against that type of use. And I used to grow pot. I started small at first but not long after that I grew for profit. Nothing but purple hair and collos bigger than your arm. But because I "have" seen the other side of the equation, I have to say that legalizing it would be wrong. It would just become another big bussiness to the detriment of too many people. You are free to smoke it now. All you want in fact. This country leads the world in hemp sales. And there are places in NoCal where the law doesn't go unless it goes in force. You are opposed to government trying to tell you how to live and protect you from yourself. Well I remember when I was a kid growing up on US Hyway 101 and all the drunk sailors and marines getting killed in car accidents because seatbelts weren't mandatory. And child restaining seats weren't either. And God praise those who went after drunk drivers and cigarette manufacturers. There is also a reason why alcohol is illegal for minors. Can you imagine what it would be like if it wasn't? Can you imagine if pot was freely sold over the counter to anyone over 18? Or 21? It's hard enough to get pot now as a teen. Imagine if it could be procurred over the counter. My wife used to be a teacher until last year. She shudders when that argument surfaces at parties we attend. Most kids don't limit anything they do. Just look at frat parties. No I'm against it. But I do support medical legalization. Wholeheartedly. I know aids victims. Too many damnit. If you really want your tax dollars to do some good in the war on drugs, write your congressmen and senators and the president to start paying Central and South American farmers for all the beans and corn they can grow. Subsidize them to grow any crop other than cocao and poppies. The price of coke and heroin will become so high it will be unprofitable to make enough drug that it's use will decline. These farmers raise cocao and poppies because it pays much better than edible crops. Don't worry about the availability of pot. There's plenty of it grown domestically. I don't know where you live but go to any warzone here in America and hang with the kids for awhile. See what smokin dope does to kids. They get "reeeaaaallll" lazy. I've seen too many of them do good in school all the way until they started smokin dope and then the downward spiral started. They could be so much more but smokin dope is too much fun. But your grades go to shit. Many pull out but there are also too many that don't. I'm glad you aren't one of your so called "weak minded/willed" individuals. James

-- Anonymous, February 19, 2001

Well, I must say that while your logic is understandable, it is also false. I have seen the deepest pits of the drug trade, and I tell you that pot has killed no one. Laws against pot have killed thousands. How did the government take care of the gang problems in the 1930's? They ended prohibition. Why? Because it wasn't working. Elliot Ness and his "Untouchables" failed misreably. Alcohol kills thousands of people each year. Tobacco kills millions (my mother included). But you can buy either of these if you are over 21 or 18, with no restriction on their use in your own home. Why can't we do this with pot? You say it's because too many kids will get ahold of it. Hmmm.... Do they have it now? Is anyone asking for identification when they buy it? And why is it that we have reduced tobacco use immensely since the 1960's without arresting one single person? Because it has been placed as a public health issue, not a criminal justice issue. I could go to jail, lose my student loans, lose my job, be required to pay hefty fines... the list goes on... all for smoking a joint? Does a child molester lose his eligibility for federal aid? No. But a pot smoker does. Does this seem fair? If teens do use pot, be thankful that they have chosen a drug that international studies show most people grow out of by their thirties...... without severe side affects. Do you grow out of cigarettes? Not often. What about alcohol? Not likely. What about your television? HA! Speaking of laziness, have you ever heard of the term "couch potato?" It has to do with sitting in front of your 210 channels all damn day instead of changing your kid's diaper or mowing the lawn or getting off your butt and finding a job. That, however is OK because TV is legal. You may not think legalization is the answer, but you have to admit that prohibition is not working. If you change the battery in your car because it won't start, do you keep changing batteries? Or do you look for a different solution? I think you would look for something different. Why is that so difficult to understand concerning the War on Americans, uh, I mean Drugs. The DEA states that we spend nearly $50 billion annualy on the eradication of illicit drugs, yet they capture less than 10% of them. Does $50 billion per year for a %90 failure rate sound like a good investment? Obviously prohibition has not worked. We have given it nearly 70 years, and more people than ever are using it. Does ruining someone's life sound like a solution that is in the best interest of all involved? No! So why are we trying to beat a dead horse? Because the government cannot admit that it's wrong. And neither can the "decent" people who love their country. Simply stated, it is time for a different solution to your perceived problem, and that solution involves legalization with regulation. Bye bye gangs. Bye bye to the weed laced with PCP or Methamphetamines. Bye bye jail sentences for otherwise law-abiding citizens. Hello increased income for the government! And goodbye to all those taxes that are going to house non-violent drug offenders.

-- Anonymous, February 19, 2001

You get 210 channels on your TV?

-- Anonymous, February 19, 2001

Wow James, You've out done yourself. I'd think that a big grower/dealer such as yourself would at least know how to spell cola (not collos)!! You're last post essentially says that you trust these awful killers to dish out pot, but you would never trust the government or legitamite farmers. You are arguing against yourself. First you talk about "the other side" of pot peddlers and then you say that everything is all right as is because people can still get weed (though not from the a trustworthy souce such as the government). I'd like to STRESS one more time that not one single person has ever died from marijuana use. You obviously can't listen to the arguement I make and it shows from your constant repetition of the same worthless ideas. Please don't try to lecture me on the Emerald Triangle in California. These people are just setting the standard for the rest of the country just as Proposition 215 did in 1996. And tell me now, why is ok for an aids patient to smoke UnGodly amounts of herb while the average, respectable citizen can't even touch it? Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with these people using pot. We have the same right to "the safest therapeutically active substance known to man" (the administative law judge for the DEA, Francis L. Young is responsible for this quote!!).

Now to address the biggest load of bullshit here (though it doesn't even relate to the subject at hand). There is NO WAY we could possibly pay South and Central American farmers enough to keep them from growing cocao and poppies. That's just like going to the grocery store and buying a pound of peas for 1000.00 dollars. You assume that I have not seen lethargic kids that just "chill" all day and do nothing productive. As I mentioned before, it was much easier for me to get pot than alcohol when I was in high school. It would just be that much harder to get it if it were legalized. The problem is that the U.S. goverment does not try to control drug use, they try to stop it. We will never be sucessful trying to stop drug use, but we can make an infinitely bigger difference if we control it. Something I've noticed is that in every post you have made, the main point you are stressing is that drugs come from the worst people possible and a buyer can easily get wrapped up in the negativity that these people bring. And this is the only point you make that I can even half-way respect. But you see James, these people wouldn't exist if cannabis products were legalized. Nobody could possible benefit from growing either because prices would be so much cheaper. Something you just can't understand is that I don't think marijuana is a harmless drug, but most problems we have now would be erased if it were legalized. I see that there is no reason for me to further discredit you because your responses seem to take care of that by themselves.

-- Anonymous, February 20, 2001

Well Bill, The word is spelled collo from the spanish language, not cola from the bad english translation. And I am amazed at your lack of knowlege of what it's really like in the serious end of the drug trade. And I'm amazed that you would even consider legalizing yet another drug except to make it easier and cheaper for "you" to get. Alcohol and cigarettes are bad enough but now you want to legalize another seemingly innocuos drug. And your ignorance of the economics associated with growing cocoa and poppies instead of corn and beans is astounding. The farmers in South and Central America get much less for growing these illicit drugs which feed no one but the cartel and America's insane desire to get high. Cocoa leaf is 2 cents a pound to the farmer while beans are 10 cents a pound in the markets in Peru. And seeing that nearly every 1st and 2nd world country on the planet have banned pot says something. And don't try and tell me it's because the DEA requests it. The people know that it has a negative effect on productivity. And how does it become harder to get if it is legalized? That doesn't make sense. An 18 year old goes down to the store and buys it for his underage buddies. Just like booze is procurred now by the underage. How is the government going to control it by legalizing it? They try and control cigarettes and alcohol by passing laws regulating it's sale but that certainly hasn't stopped anyone from getting either of those drugs anytime they want whether they are a minor or not. Education? Give me a break. The government and schools and churches have been educating us for years about sexual behavior and yet the rate of teenage pregnancy and veneral disease is still rising. Education? I don't buy that at all. And go ahead and try to discredit me all you want Bill. Ain't no sweat off my nose if pot gets legalized. But it will come back to haunt you the same way it is haunting drug users all over the world. There is so much more to life without drugs of any kind. And remember that this argument is about the drug trade and not about you doing a fatty once in awhile. It's about the legalization of yet another drug. Another drug that kids will get ahold of and misuse just like alcohol and cigarettes. You need to open your eyes about the world around you. Just because you want to smoke dope you push to have it legalized. Good for your selfish self pal. For me and my future grandkids and the kids of all the people I know now, I hope it never comes to pass. And I remember a picture in a thread here that shows a nice mom type with a small little kid laying on her chest. I have seen these wonderful scenes for years. And then teenage-itis sets in and the kids start doing alcohol and then pot. Their grades go down and they become argumentative with their parents and teachers. Oh, you didn't know about the effects of pot on mood and behavior? I'm amazed at your lack of knowlege about something you want legalized. I've seen kids go down the tubes too many times. Most come back up for air after awhile but too many never surface again. And if you don't know about these effects then you had best start reading about these studies. You need to hang around teachers who have to deal with this shit everyday. Do you have kids Bill? Do your siblings have kids Bill? Hey Gwen. Do you want Goku to be smokin pot at his age? Hey Bubba. How many kids have disappeared around your neck of the woods that were associated with pot? I tell you Bill. Pot is not innocuous in the least when it is abused. And kids will abuse it just as the sun will rise tomorrow. You can bank on it. James

-- Anonymous, February 20, 2001

James, You didn't manage to make a single legitimate point here. I don't know spanish, but I did look in my spanish dictionary and according to it the word doesn't exist. You can keep talking about the dangers of pot and I'll keep agreeing that some (though most exaggerated) do exist. If people could increase their profits 5 times by growing beans and corn, I don't think that cocao would even exisit. I am very curious to where you got this tid bit of what I (at least for now) consider misinformation. No James, I don't yet have kids, but I'm not worried. I won't live in fear that my kids will buy alcohol and I won't be scared that they will try pot. As far as teachers go, I happen to be the son of one and I know my mother would rather put up with a quiet stoner than an agressive drunk. One more rant, GOD FORBID OUR CHILDREN ARE FREE THINKING AND DON'T BLINDLY FOLLOW EVERY TID BIT OF DIRECTION FORCED ON THEM. My not wanting to go to jail for simple possession has NOTHING TO DO WITH GREED. I don't feel that it is right for me to go to jail for any "crime" against myself.

And I say this last bit more for myself than anyone else as I don't intend to discredit you, just express my undeveloped (and I stress undeveloped) summary of James Mickelson. I have known many people who did not enjoy the experience of consuming herb and I say too bad for them. I think you are one of the people who let pot completely consume you, and your being. You didn't like the negative exposure associated with the characters people are forced to deal with when obtaining smoke. You started growing to keep from fueling dealers, but then after a while you saw a way to make a few extra bucks ever few months. By that time you were in way over your head. Before long you ate/slept/drank pot. But finally, after several years of use and dealing something (probably either the law or a loved-one) you knew that you had to get out. I think you should consider yourself lucky that you could after being so deeply involved. You now blaim all of life's problems on weed. You can't believe that you allowed such a benign substance control you. And finally, Now the only way you can keep away from it is to make it seem so wrong, so evil that you lose all interest in it. If this is the case, so be it, but don't go around preaching about how kids are going to be more aggressive and go insane. It just doesn't happen. Yes, more rebellious kids will try pot but that's only because they are rebellious.

-- Anonymous, February 20, 2001

You are so misinformed. And misguided by your own desires that you fail to see the falacy of your argument. What a sheltered lad indeed. And I don't for one moment believe your mother wants to deal with a stoner unless she's the type of teacher who doesn't give a shit and just passes Billy along to the next unfortunate teacher. There are too many Billy's in the world. Making pot legal will just make more. When you have kids then think about what you wrote in this forum and maybe you'll see the light. Making any drug legal is stupid. You obviously don't have much problem getting smoke. Or maybe(wink) you have to much of a problem. Take a trip to the police station and ask the coolest most liberal cop around about the people they deal with concerning pot. Not your average June Cleaver smokin a fatty. Go ahead. It might make you think. And Bill, you're a lightweight. You have no idea how liberal I am. But where I went, I'm glad to be back. And I'm no born again anti drug crusader. I live and let live. It's the only way to go. What I don't like are punks and abusers. And people who want things legalized so they can have their own way regardless of the consequences to others whom they could care less about. Just wait till you have kids pal. I'll laugh my ass off at you and your liberalism concerning pot and the "don't protect me from myself" attitude. Seen so many angry and sorrowful parents in my time. No I won't change my mind one bit. James

-- Anonymous, February 20, 2001

It's intresting that people assume selling pot in stores would further spread the use of it in public, being under the age of 21 myself I can assure you it is MUCH harder for me to obtain alcohol than marijuana, and this persists everywhere...Pot will be abused by kids everywhere, and obviously it's being illegal is NO deterrant to this. But by legalizing marijuana and adding a few restrictions, akin to alcohol, it can be integrated into this society with a minimum of problems, ceartinly much less than that of alcohol... I always remember a neat little tidbit a pot activist told me, you see a guy at a ballgame, yelling and screaming obscenities at the other team, which is he more likley to be, drunk or stoned? See it's not so much this situation but in general, people drunk are much more violent, and much less coherent than someone stoned. Then HOW in the hell can the obviously MUCH more destructive substance remain legal, and the one that has an obvious medical benefit on top of being much less dangerous remain illegal? Money. When marijuana was made illegal it wasn't because it altered perception or because it caused any physical harm, it was because who would smoke cigarettes when they could buy pot for the same price? How much money would R.J. Renolyds lose? Who would down that foul tasting poison when they could smoke and be so much happier? How much money would the liqour companies lose? How much money would the cotton companies lose when hemp became usable? How much money would the politicans who regulate these things and take the bribes from the money off of them lose? And who could fail to see this... Someone asked if we can spell propaganda, apparently many here can spew it with the fervor of a baptist preacher. Unless we objectively view the situation, we can never be unbiased about it. Marijuana has proven to be of immense medicinal value, it can HELP people, sometimes it is the only choice for some, because the VERY harmful drugs they have been approved to take can cause serious side effects, but hey, when the company spends a million dollars buying senators lunch, they get a product on the market... It is a fact that we would never have to cut down another tree from this moment on if hemp were legalized, but due to the stigma attached to marijuana, even a plant with NO active altering substances that could in essence save the world, is activley destroyed, a plant our founding fathers grew on this land themselves (George Washington, Thomas Jefferson)...it's sad that due to the greed of big business, the very same crops that were insturmental in founding this country, are now demonized by it...and a further shame that innocent people are treated like criminals for enjoying something in the privacy of their own homes...freedom has really become an illusion, yeah, some people can really spell propaganda...

-- Anonymous, February 20, 2001

James: Your arguments are making absolutely no sense. You need to stop and use a little reason before you start making claims that are obviously wrong to anyone with the capacity to think rationally about these issues.

You seem to keep making the argument that since kids can already get drugs, legalizing pot is only going to make it easier. You keep making the argument that people can't handle alcohol and cigarettes, so how could they handle pot? And then you keep saying "why legalize it since you can already get it from drug dealers" (not a direct quote, but that's the idea I'm getting from you).

All of these things completely miss the point of legalizing pot. There are two points, actually. 1) The government has no right to determine what a person can do to themselves. 2) Personal responsibility. These issues are tied firmly together and are the very heart of the argument to legalize marijuana.

The first issue, about non-government-interference, is responsible for so many of the other issues. When you try to criminalize something that normal people want, you turn normal people into criminals. When you do this, you create a criminal market for the product. If you take away the criminalization, then there are no longer any criminals attached to the market. You trade drug dealers for liquor stores. A drug dealer will sell drugs to a minor. A liquor store will not (that is, if he wants to keep his license). Sure, some kids will manage to get ahold of it, just like they do alcohol. But it's not nearly as easy with the dealer. Why? Because alcohol requires you to be 21 to purchase. Most high school students don't have too many friends that are over 21, that they regularly hang out with. And those that do, at least some of those 21 year olds have to be somewhat responsible. And that brings us to the second point.

Personal responsibility. People in this country have forgotten what that's all about. Taking responsibility for your own actions. Under this heading falls responsibility for your own children. If you are responsible for your children and teach them how to be responsible for themselves, then there's a much less likely chance that they will get involved with drugs or alcohol. But parents today seem to think that their kids will learn all of this in school. So kids don't learn to respect substances and learn not to abuse them. Any substance can be dangerous or deadly if you don't have respect for it and responsibility for your own actions in using it. Sure, it's a shame that people can't go out drinking without getting behind the wheel of their car and killing someone. But is that the beer company's fault? Is it the bartender's fault? Is it the car manufacturer's fault? No. Every bit of blame you put on one of those groups takes away blame from the individual whose responsibility it was.

The government needs to get its hands out of issues that are ultimately the responsibility of an individual, or a consentual act between two people. And they need to strengthen laws that protect peoples' rights against those who would act irresponsibly. Get the non-violent pot smokers out of jail, and save more room for those who would drink or smoke and then drive a car. Remove the drug dealers' ability to prey on kids by selling them harder and harder drugs.

And as for your argument that marijuana is a gateway drug, that's absolutely false. The reason that marijuana use leads to more hard core drug use is simple. Marijuana is bulky and hard to transport. It's costly because it's the most easily seizable drug. Because of this, drug dealers have much less profit on marijuana than, say, crack. Crack is easy to transport. It's more addictive. It has a higher profit margine. So, drug dealers will offer the first one free, in an effort to switch pot smokers off of pot and onto heroine or crack. THAT is the reason that marijuana is a "gateway drug", and that wont' happen if it's legalized and restricted like alcohol.

I respect your personal experience on this matter, but the fact is, you may be too close to the issue to see the truth. You see the deaths and the lives ruined and the kids who drop out and stuff, and you see the cause as marijana. But marijuana is only the vehicle...the motive force is the criminalization of marijuana, and the lack of personal responsibility on the users of marijuana.

You asked Bill if he had kids. I do. I've got a beautiful 18 month old baby boy. And I STILL want pot to be legalized. When he's a little bit older, I'm going to tell him about drugs and alchol, and what they can do to a person. I'm going to give him the facts and tell him my own personal feelings, and I'm going to teach him that ultimately, he is responsible for his own actions. Should he decide that he still wants to smoke pot, I would MUCH rather know that he's getting it from a legal business than a drug dealer who might kill him.

-- Anonymous, February 21, 2001

James, You are right!!! I am a lightweight. I enjoy pot as it is meant to be enjoyed, and THAT'S FANTASTIC!!

-- Anonymous, February 21, 2001

James...none of your arguments address the racist/corporate reasoning of why pot was made illegal to begin with. What's up?

As for the war on marijuana, I had never heard the word marijuana till I was about 20 (I'm 54 and lived in the city

), and didn't smoke it till I was about 24. The drug war has created an enviroment where every 10 year old knows about pot and when they talk about it amoungst themselves are more than willing to take a hit by the time they reach puberty. The drug war has created the drug "epidemic" because of the lies they use to wage it.

I need you to validate the "Big lipped niggars" statement before your arguments can take on any real signifiance. Let's start from the beginning and not spout off in the middle of the discussion.

-- Anonymous, February 21, 2001

James, I support the arguments you are making. Pot makes people undeniably lazy, slow, and dull-witted. They function just fine, perhaps, but at a lower level than they would if they didn't smoke the shit.

It sucks the motivation right out of you.

In college, the kids who were regular pot smokers were already physically out of shape and majoring in easy nonsense like sociology, if they didn't drift right out of school. Where are they now, 10-15 years later? Don't tell me their whole lives wouldn't be better now if they hadn't let pot make them too lazy to seize the day and do something with themselves.

-- Anonymous, February 21, 2001

...Of course, it's possible the college potheads wouldn't have amounted to diddly-squat even without getting stoned and sleeping all day.

Maybe the appeal of marijuana is strongest for people who are already lazy and weak-minded. Some people just are, after all.

-- Anonymous, February 21, 2001

As far as I'm concerned, I don't think pot is any different than alcohol and I agree that it should be legalized. I used to smoke it all the time in high school and it didn't get me hooked on other drugs. I think kids and/or adults who have a problem with drugs have major problems to begin with and use them to escape from those problems.

I also think it's terrible that a doctor can't perscribe pot for people who need it, yet they can perscribe narcotics.

And...uh..someone who is very close to me used to smoke pot way more than I ever did ended up becoming a doctor. Also, any of my friends that did drugs, pot or other kinds, are all successful. Like I said, I think it's the people who have major problems to begin with that get addicted.

-- Anonymous, February 21, 2001

Um, I didn't smoke pot and I majored in utter nonsense like Sociology. You need a clear mind to take the statistics and data analysis classes and be able to write 20+ page papers about the demographics of various countries.

I'm just saying.

-- Anonymous, February 21, 2001

Someone who is very close to me used to smoke pot on a daily basis, and they hold degrees from several prominent universities and are considered an expert in their field and a pillar of their community. Fruitbat, sweeping generalisations are nobody's friend, and yours are (as per usual) way too easy to shoot down.

And saying that marijuana is a gateway drug is a bit silly. I bet all of the people who do smack have at one time or another eaten a piece of bread, but no one's making that illegal. You need a bit more proof to that argument before it'll hold water.

-- Anonymous, February 21, 2001

James, quotation marks are not to be used to indicate emphasis. Please return to freshman English, do not pass go and do not collect $200.

-- Anonymous, February 21, 2001

How about the judgmental poster signing his or her name as "Corky, Becca's brother" step the fuck off? Did you appreciate that use of quotation marks?

-- Anonymous, February 21, 2001

Um, elena? I think James can take care of himself. And it doesn't really pertain to you, does it?

I'm not advocating random people de-lurking and putting in their two cents, but this topic seems to be a breeding ground for it so you are better off letting random posts like that go.

-- Anonymous, February 21, 2001

I didn't "appreciate" the quotation marks, but I did "appreciate" the chuckle I got from your overreaction. That was some funny shit.

Hee.

-- Anonymous, February 21, 2001

Hey all, Bill here again. I just came to offer a little more evidence to prove that legalizing cannibas will not increase use among teen agers. PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO THE BOTTOM OF THE ARTICLE AND HOW IT SHOWS TEENS LIVING IN COUNTRIES WITH LESS STRICT MARIJUANA LAWS ARE LESS LIKELY TO TRY IT... Sorry James, but this kind of refutes the bogus claims you made about the people in Europe losing a generation.

American teenagers are far more likely than their European peers to use marijuana and other illicit drugs, but European teenagers are more likely to smoke cigarettes and drink alcohol, according to a study of 31 nations.

The study, released yesterday at a meeting of the World Health Organization in Stockholm, compared the results of 1999 surveys answered anonymously by 14,000 10th-grade students in the United States and 95,000 10th-grade students in 30 European countries.

Among the European students, 37 percent had smoked at least one cigarette in the previous 30 days, compared with 26 percent in the United States. Sixty-one percent of the European 10th graders had consumed alcohol in the previous 30 days, compared with 40 percent of the students in the United States.

Forty-one percent of 10th graders in the United States had tried marijuana, compared with 17 percent of those in Europe. And 23 percent of the students in the United States had used other illicit drugs, compared with 6 percent of Europeans.

Researchers said that the study, the first to make such broad comparisons, would help them and policy makers determine the effects of culture and other factors on drug use.

"We tend to think within national boundaries," said Thor Bjarnason, a sociologist at the State University of New York at Albany and a co-author of the report, the European School Survey Project on Alcohol and Drugs. "If you're having a war on drugs, one measure is within a comparative perspective. If drug use is increasing at a slower rate in your country, that could be a victory."

The study was developed by the Council of Europe, an intergovernmental organization focused on social and economic issues, with the help of researchers at the University of Michigan's "Monitoring the Future" project, which has surveyed students on a variety of issues for 26 years and is considered the most reliable barometer of student drug- use trends. The European survey was designed in such a way so the two could be accurately compared. Dr. Bjarnason called the differences in illicit drug use "very striking."

"That's one in four students in this country," he said. "Even in the European countries with the highest rates, it's only one in 10."

Yet while a smaller percentage of European students used illicit drugs, that percentage rose from 1995 to 1999, particularly in former Eastern- bloc countries. By contrast, much drug use in the United States has declined or held steady — with the exception of Ecstasy use, which has risen sharply.

Researchers offered little analysis to explain the differences. That, they said, would come in the second phase of the study.

But, they noted, the widespread use of marijuana and other illicit drugs began in the United States and spread to Europe so it might be that Europeans simply follow the American trend.

Others cited the more relaxed rules governing alcohol and cigarette use in many European nations, as well as other cultural differences.

Researchers said they were particularly interested in the survey results of marijuana use in the Netherlands, known for its relatively permissive drug laws.

While marijuana use was relatively widespread there — 28 percent of 10th graders had tried it, compared with the European average of 17 percent — four other European countries, Ireland, France, the Czech Republic, and Britain, had higher rates, as did the United States.

© 2001 The New York Times Company

-- Anonymous, February 21, 2001

hey i smoke pot and i like it ,but i just read up on it and guess what that can make it fun because of some stupid act they made 30 years ago the pure food and drug act. that sucks but it's cool because it saves me from buying a hot dog and getting kitty #$%^^ get me great well some day i will be known by my real name for making it in every home all around the gods happy high green world.

-- Anonymous, February 23, 2001

Well, it should be interesting to see how this turns out!

SACRAMENTO--More than four years after California voters legalized medical marijuana, researchers announced Thursday the first batch of studies planned under a $3-million state effort to determine what value pot has as medicine. The four studies approved by the Center for Medicinal Cannabis Research are the first step by the state to set concrete guidelines for use of the drug by patients suffering illnesses including AIDS, multiple sclerosis, cancer and glaucoma. Research teams at UC San Francisco and UC San Diego will look at smoked marijuana's effect on HIV-related pain. Another study will focus on what help pot can provide to ease spasticity caused by multiple sclerosis. A fourth research team will examine concerns over the drug's effect on the driving abilities of patients with AIDS or MS. Igor Grant, a psychiatry professor at UC San Diego and the center's director, said university research unfettered by any political agenda should answer basic questions about medical marijuana while helping to "reset the national thermostat on this issue." For years, the federal government has been largely unwilling to fund exhaustive clinical studies of pot's potential therapeutic value, preferring instead to support research into the drug's effects as an illegal narcotic. But federal officials have increasingly called for scientific proof in the face of a ground-swell movement that resulted in legalization of medical marijuana in California and a half-dozen other states. The drug remains an illegal narcotic under federal law, and the U.S. Supreme Court is set to hear a challenge to medical marijuana next month. Grant and others hope the California research effort, which won state funding last year, can spur even more ambitious medical marijuana studies backed by the federal government. Though the four studies could begin as soon as May 1, a key hurdle remains. The only source of research-grade marijuana in the U.S. is a federal farm at the University of Mississippi. The California researchers have yet to win approval from a fleet of agencies-- including the U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency and the Food and Drug Administration--that will be needed to obtain the research cannabis. Grant and the researchers don't expect snags. Federal regulators are interested, he said, as long as marijuana researchers are "serious people looking at serious medical questions and not approaching it from some advocacy position."

© Los Angeles Times, February 23, 2001

-- Anonymous, February 23, 2001

Well, here's the most recent study dealing with the driving ability of marijuana users. Looks like more of the same findings.

Marijuana Has Less Adverse Effect on Driving Than Alcohol, Tiredness, U.K. Study Says

Crowthorne, Berkshire, United Kingdom: Marijuana appears to have less adverse impact on driving ability than does alcohol, according to findings from a recent study by the U.K.'s Transport Research Laboratory (TRL). The results replicate earlier findings recorded in the U.S., Australia and elsewhere indicating that marijuana intoxication plays a relatively insignificant role in vehicular accidents.

NORML Foundation Director Allen St. Pierre said the results were not surprising. "Study after study shows that marijuana's slight impairment on psychomotor skills generally falls within the range of safety we accept for prescription medications and other legal, potentially debilitating factors; the findings of this latest inquiry are no different."

The TRL study examined the driving performance of fifteen volunteers while under the influence of low and high doses of marijuana, and while sober. All volunteers were tested using a sophisticated driving simulator. Researchers found that marijuana appeared to adversely influence subjects' ability to accurately steer a car (so-called 'tracking ability'), but found their reaction time and all other measures of driving performance to be unaffected by the drug. Researchers further noted that subjects were cognizant of their impairment and "attempt[ed] to compensate for [it] by reducing the difficulty of the driving task, for example by driving more slowly."

The authors concluded: "In terms of road safety, it cannot be concluded that driving under the influence of cannabis is not a hazard. However, in comparison with alcohol, the severe effects of alcohol on the higher cognitive processes of driving are likely to make this more of a hazard, particularly at higher levels."

Similar trials previously conducted by the TRL have shown that alcohol and sleep deprivation have a more adverse impact on driving ability than does marijuana. Tests from other countries have yielded comparable results. A May 1998 Australian review of 2,500 injured drivers reported that cannabis had "no significant effect" on driving culpability. A pair of studies released by the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration in 1992 and 1993 found the adverse effects of marijuana on driving "relatively small," and concluded that "there [was] no compelling evidence that marijuana contributes substantially to traffic accidents or fatalities."

The most recent TRL study was commissioned by the British Department of Environment, Transport and the Regions

-- Anonymous, February 24, 2001

Rather than copy and past a whole article, I'll just give you the link. This is one of the better articles that I've seen that favor decriminalization or legalization of marijuana. The crux of the argument is that legalization does not hinge on the morality of whether pot is good or bad, but simply on the fact that given the ability to choose for themselves, most people act responsibly.

http://www.nationalreview.com/dissent/dissent022201.shtml

-- Anonymous, February 26, 2001

If marijuana were legal then that would mean that we all actually live in a free country...and we wouldn't want that now would we?

-- Anonymous, March 28, 2001