Do you think it's a good idea? Do you differentiate between home schooling that's undertaken in order to isolate children from "undesirable" elements of society, and home schooling that's done because the parents think the kids will get a better education and have more time to explore creativity? Should public schools be learning something from home schoolers?

-- Anonymous, June 22, 2000

Answers

In an ideal world, public schools would be good enough that home schooling would not be necessary (and I guess this is leaning toward the "so kids will get a better education" part of home schooling). I feel like I got a good education at my public school, but that was over fifteen years ago, in a small, rural location. I don't blame parents for feeling failed by the public schools. I don't know much about charter schools, but maybe that is one solution.

If I had kids, depending on the school system where I lived, I would strongly consider home schooling. I say this even though my father, mother and brother all work in public schools, or maybe I say this because they do and I know how even good teachers are hamstrung by administration, parents and their less-than-good colleagues.

-- Anonymous, June 22, 2000

Ooh, so timely. I read the Salon article a few weeks ago and watched the spelling bee on ESPN. It made me think for the first time about homeschooling as a viable option for my daughters (they'll be a year old on July 16th, so it's a little way off).

I do have conflicted feelings about some people who keep their children out of school because of their religious beliefs. But freedom of religion is a right here in the U.S., so it follows that a family should be able to educate their children at home if they feel that public education is antiethical to their belief system. And to be frank, one of the reasons we're considering homeschooling is that the school district we live in sucks through a straw. We are white (in fact, pasty pale) and the district is primarily minorities. That's not the problem. The schools don't have the best teachers and the curriculum is iffy. I would *love* for my girls to be educated in a non-homogenous situation. I think it would only make them better people. But do I make that decision at the expense of their education? And is it any better to send them to a private school that is almost all white simply because the education is superior? Or do we homeschool and try to expose them to all variety of people and give them the education we want them to have and the experiences we deem worthwhile? My husband and I think that homeschooling is the best compromise.

The main problem with public schools is they have a mandate to educate *everyone*. If your child needs special help due to a learning disability or because she is gifted, she probably won't get it. Homeschooling also cuts out the non-learning time, time spent on a bus, in studyhall, in homeroom, in classes where the child can finish the work quickly and accurately but can't get guidance and help exploring what truly excites her or what she really needs to focus on. A homeschooling situation allows children to work at their own pace and to their own interests (which lead to other interests and more learning).

I was trained as a secondary school teacher, so I know what I'm talking about. When I did my student teaching, one week I taught one class. All the rest of the time was eaten up by assemblies for various events and important surveys and testing (and a bicycle safety course for 11th graders!). That is simply appalling and this was a very highly competitive and highly ranked public high school. And I'm not slagging teachers. They have the most difficult job. Trying to reach every student in overfilled classes, very little scheduled prep time, using their own money to buy needed supplies because the levy failed *again*, awful pay, and NO respect. So I'm not particularly upset with teachers so much as I am a public system that doesn't allow them to teach and saddles them with responsibilities that they shouldn't be required to deal with. For Christ's sake, no one expects doctors to buy gauze and medications for their patients, but I have yet to meet a teacher (even in *wealthy* districts) who hasn't spent her own money on something for her students.

My husband's concern is our daughters' social development. I paid lip service to this idea that homeschoolers are geeks with no social skills who can't relate to their peers until I thought about it. I was a shy, bookish, geeky kid. So was hubby. All of our friends were the same way. I don't *want * my girls to be the "ohmigod I'm so popular and a cheerleader and my boyfriend's the quarterback" kind of kids. I want them to love learning and reading and be themselves. I was tormented in school. I'm fine and I don't think it damaged me horribly or anything, but I don't want my kids to have to endure that. I'm not sure it makes you a better person to be picked on and taunted. i think it sometimes turns people into the bullies of society.

So, I think I want to keep my kids at home and educate them myself. Hey, they're my ultimate responsibilities and I might as well use that to my advantage. Teach them what I think is vital for a well-educated person and then allow them to follow their own passions. Introduce them to people different from them in a non-educational setting so they know the world doesn't look just like them. Spare them the teasing and torment so they can learn. Be able to make the most of every learning opportunity because I set the schedule and curiosity should be encouraged. And, as my mother said, "You can come and visit whenever you want because they can have school in Ohio as well as California if you are the teacher." And we all know that Grandma is always right! :)

-- Anonymous, June 22, 2000

I have a girlfriend who is a teacher who goes absolutely ape over this topic and private schools. She gets incensed. Really, I don't see the problem. Yes, she has specialized training, but if you, as a parent feel you'd like to have your child taught at home with resources provided by a credible program, knock yourself out. If you aren't happy with public schools, by all means, put your child in private schools if you think they are better.

I think home schooling gets a bad rap as being for religious fanatics. While those people do exists, yes, not everyone is that way. I think the stereotype of the fanatic carries over to the home schooling issue. People don't want to talk about the zealotry, so they talk about a safer issue - the fact that they home school the children. I think it is a substitute for the real issue...

The home schooled kids I've met have been intelligent, highly inquisitive, and bright. The parents care deeply about the child & his/her education. The child gets outside stimulation from various classes, but the parent structures more of the educational experience.

Re: private school - I go to a private college & am learning so many things about morals (including sexual education & morals I never learned in public school). And it isn't unhealthy stuff. More along the lines of how to make a good decision. What is morally right & why. How to education yourself. Etc. I'm NOT being brainwashed. I'd send my kids to a private (probably Catholic or Lutheran or even Jewish) school any time.

I did, however, hear about the home schooling thing where you let a kid naturally start to read and learn, so you had 11 year olds who didnt know how to read yet. It was a form of home schooling that I think is legal here in Texas. Thats nuts. If you home school, you cant just leave out the school part. You do actually have to teach something & the child has to learn. Otherwise, you are denying the child what he/she needs to learn in order to be a successful adult.

-- Anonymous, June 22, 2000

Grace: actually, that "letting the kids read naturally" thing isn't necessarily a result of ignoring the school part of home schooling. I've read that delaying the time when a kid learns to read is one approach for dealing with certain learning disabilities. The child learns other things during that time, and may be up to or way beyond grade level in math and science and other courses, but reading is delayed until the child is a bit more mentally developed. I think the idea is to prevent the frustration that results with children who have a terribly difficult time learning to read at age 6 and 7, and thus never really become readers at all.

-- Anonymous, June 22, 2000

I've put two kids through the public schools, and have one going into the 7th grade. Even though our school district (Round Rock , Texas) is considered well above average I am thinking of going the home school or private school route. I'm rapidly losing faith in public schools as they now operate for all the usual reasons. I'd really like to see my son go to a school with strict discipline and an emphasis math, science, traditional literature, languages, and reading/writing of standard English. My first choice would be a secular school, but I wouldn't rule out a religious school.

Exception: As a Unitarian I have to draw the line against our the excellent Baptist school just down the street from where I live. The kids there get a good education, but I just can't swallow their assertion that they have the private line to the Almighty. If your kid goes to their school you either swallow this belief or they devote themselves to cramming it down your throat. They have every right to run their affairs this way, but its not for me.

What I really want and need is a good school choice system that would encourage the community to start many new private schools. This country is just too diverse for the one-size-fits-all public system. It's odd in the extreme that those people most vocal about "diversity" are most opposed to school choice. With school choice you have ultimate diversity.

Oh, and please spare me the bogus arguments about public money not going to schools with religious affiliations. Every year the government gives religious colleges hundreds of millions of dollars in grants and scholarships to religious colleges. There is no constitutional bar to funding education in a religious setting as long as participation is completely voluntary.

-- Anonymous, June 22, 2000

I think that home schooling should be an available choice to parents so that they can address the special educational needs of their child.

The perspective that I have, is that a lot of school is boring for smart kids. So a parent with bright children home schools so that they don't have to 'hold the child back' educationally.

I only rarely hear of the the whole, "educating at home for religious beliefs" thing. Maybe I just have my head in the sand.

Don't get me wrong, I strongly believe in the mandate of public education, but at the moment the system is a horrible mess, with some schools being excellent and others getting the short end of the stick because of the relative economic wealth of various areas of the country. IMHO, schools should be a federal system and uniformly supported in identical fashion across the nation.

Even in areas with excellent schools, I can understand why a parent would choose to home school so that the particular needs of their child are sure to be met. Maybe if my parents had home schooled me, more attention would have been given to my problems with math, for example. And I went to not one, but two cushy private schools where attention for students was emphasized to the max, through elementary and junior high.

My biggest concern with home schooling is compensating adequately for the socialization aspect. Hence IMHO, in order to have a balanced home schooling experience a child should also be enrolled in group activities with other children outside of the home -- things like a local play group at the Y, or sports leagues, or other things of that nature.

I also think that home schooling is adequate between certain ages, but that after a certain age, kids should be enrolled in regular school, either public or private, so that they understand how to deal with "the system" -- there's more than just education to learn from school. A lot of what you learn in high school has to do with managing red tape and being organized in a highly bureaucratized system.

These are things you need to know how to handle when you're trying to get into college ... or later on in the working world.

I think that public schools do have something to learn from home schoolers -- i.e. that the model upon which our schools are currently built is no longer applicable to the way that our society has developed. The inherent structure of the school day was designed around a societal model (agricultural) that for the most part no longer exists. The rhythm of the school day needs to be changed to assist kids in the learning process, not making learning into a chore.

-- Anonymous, June 22, 2000

I'm planning to home-school any kids I have, at least until they're old enough for high school. I'll have to reevaluate at that point.

I don't like the idea of putting young children into desks and making them sit still for most of the day. I do like the idea of letting the kids have more time out in the world, at libraries, museums, and parks. I plan to offer a wider curriculum than the usual, as well, with more art, music, and time for science experiments and other fun stuff.

The only argument against homeschooling that gets to me at all is the idea that the kids might not develop their social skills, so my plan is to form a group with other like-minded people and their children, and even trade off days of teaching so that it's like an inexpensive mini private school.

-- Anonymous, June 22, 2000

Has anyone out there tried homeschooling or have you been homeschooled? Some first-hand accounts and opinions would be useful...

As far as socialization goes, all of my research seems to point to the fact that homeschooled kids are very mature and responsible and yet retain a very innocent, childlike quality because they are not subjected to the cruelties of peer groups. And honestly, why not allow your kids to enjoy being kids? So what if they relate better with adults? You spend most of your life as an adult, anyway. And life is not segmented into ages after school is over. That being said, it seems that most homeschoolers do have get-togethers with others who share their philosophies that provide kids a chance to be with peers and parents a chance to get some support.

I'm also interested in why you would want to willingly subject a child to high school after schooling them at home. For the "social scene"? Please. Does anyone else have bad memories of being an outcast and teased in high school? I've found lots of information that most homeschooled kids can pass high school equivalency exams by the time that they're 14 or 15. And it seems that most "elite" colleges accept homeschoolers. I think the Salon article said they accept homeschoolers at a ratio of 3:1 over schooled kids. And if you don't feel your kid can handle college at such an early age, let them take community college classes in what interests them or what at what they excel.

The more i read and think about this, the more I'm convinced that homeschooling is the way to go if you have the energy and inclination. Like anything, I'm also sure it is not for everyone.

-- Anonymous, June 22, 2000

Beth- You may be right. I think I heard a teacher friend and a counselor friend discussing it.

Nonetheless, I went looking for information (which I never found.) This is a really good information resource re: the legalities of home schooling.

http://www.hslda.org/hslda/ (You'll get a new window...)

-- Anonymous, June 22, 2000

If I had kids, I'd want to home school them. Schools here are so lousy compared to the way they were when I was young. Their emphasis seems to be on the wrong things. I'd rather my child got a good foundation in academics than all the extra curricular things that kids today seem to spend time on.

I was an only child who hung around with adults a lot, so the social things aren't very important to me. I'd feel uneasy letting my child spend time with children whose families had values different from mine, like letting them watch TV or be into consumer stuff like Pokemon.

So yeah, I guess I am one of those people who want to isolate kids from "undesirable" elements of society. But that's how I was raised. And I think it's harder to be isolated from such things now. Back then, you had to go to Disneyland to buy Disney things, there weren't Disney stores in every town. Kid's clothes and toys and fast foods and cereals weren't all tied to the latest movie. They didn't have Pepsi and other brands in schools. Jon Carroll had another great column about how children's parties have to include "goodie bags" for all the participants. buy buy buy.

I know several people who did it for similar reasons. They had a network of other home school families & had play dates with them so the kids learned to deal with other children. I'm biased, but those kids turned out really well.

-- Anonymous, June 22, 2000

Hi; i'm Andrea, i sent the link. I had a big long answer all typed in... and lost it! Anyway... I have three kids - ages 12, 9, and 7. The younger two, girls, have been homeschooled from the start. the oldest has spent time in a private christian school, and the last two years (grade 6 & 7) in school. He will be homeschooled again for the next two years at least, for a variety of reasons, some good, some bad. I assigned him an essay to write on the reasons, which I'll eventually post on my website. Not one reason of his was because of religion, although we are religious. The longer you do it the more reasons there are to continue. He did have an awful problem with the other kids and their lack of.. morals? respect for authority? lemming-like qualities? lack of ability to think for themselves?
I don't differentiate between one kind of homeschooler or another, because each parent is ultimatley doing what they think is best for their child and family. i have changed my mind on methods and curriculm plenty of times.And that's party of the beauty. It's flexilbe, and if something isn't working, you can change it right away, not wait until the next budget goes through.
Public schools have a ton of stuff to learn, if only they'd stop freaking out about it long enough to listen. The HSLDA has also done an extensive study, which had some interesting findings.
Like everything, i think parents should have a choice, or at least a large say in their child's education. Here's an article that will answer the Socialization Issue. I wish you could meet my kids, they would answer your questions themselves, but they are not home. One is at a dance, the others are busy with their friends. They are gone a lot of afternoons, or my house is full of other people's kids.
I have a ton of homeschooling links available, a lot recent finds because I'm preparing for next year. So if you'd like to ask a specific question of me, fire away. You may want to email me directly, i won't be back here until tomorrow, probably.
The one thing I noticed the first two weeks when Addison started school ,was I had to explain what a lot of bad words meant. He'd never heard them. The time he came home becasue a girl broke his heart was a lesson I wished he could learn later in life. As for the girls, they read voraciously, Sarah, the 9 year old, is working on her own webpage, Meaghan freaks out people when she open her mouth because she speaks almost like an adult but is also short for her age. Most people mistake her for 4 or 5. Until she opens her mouth, anyway.
They've learned a few things at home that they woudn't learn in school until later, like: where the magical paycheck comes from (we both run our own businesses from home), taking care of a household, yes, they have chores, just as many as I do. They have also worked in my store.
As for qualifications, I taught them all how to walk, talk, feed themselves, use the potty, get along... I figured teaching them how to read, write and do math was only a natural extension. And sex ed? Well, living on a farm helped bring that subject up, although i don't know what they'll all be like on their wedding nights. ;-) I try to answer all their questions honestly with as little embarrasment on my part as possible. This entry was all about my talk with the girls about periods. It was easy after I had explained it to Addison, trust me.
Some day are good, really good, like when their eyes light up because they finally "got it", and yes, we've had our share of bad days. Ultimately, however long we continue, it will have been worth it. They are not the only ones learning in this household.

-- Anonymous, June 22, 2000

To my mind, it seems like the main drawback to home schooling would not be the lack of interaction with a child's peers, but rather a lack of exposure to multiple teachers with diverse educational philosophies and techniques. Home-schooled students may get more personal attention, but it seems inevitable that having a smaller number of teachers will limit one's educational horizons.

As for the issue of home-schooling for religious reasons, I think it is actually quite widespread. My mom was an elementary school principal at a school in Connecticut (which is not a hotbed of religious devotion or anything) and she had several families in her community who chose to home-school their kids in order to integrate Christianity into their curriculum.

-- Anonymous, June 22, 2000

I don't understand what sort of kid would want to stay at home all day with Mom and siblings. Isn't part of education going out into the world, meeting other people, etc?

-- Anonymous, June 22, 2000

...or Dad and kids, Joy...though that's the first thing you've ever said I've agreed with...

-- Anonymous, June 22, 2000

As far as staying at home, I think one of the pluses of homeschooling is that children can have the opportunity to spend a lot of time away from the house -- at museums, parks, musical events. I have heard of homeschoolers who do internships with mentors in professions that interest them because they are not tied to school. And homeschooled kids have the freedom to do their learning in many different settings. I can count on one hand the number of times I was outside in a learning situation at public school, yet homeschooled kids can spend the entire day outside if the weather allows.

As for the point about having different teachers with different perspectives and teaching methods: I think there's an easy fix for that. Especially as kids get older and more sophisticated educationally, they will require instruction that one person can't provide personally (I'm hoping my girls become math geniuses and I *know* I'll be out of my depth). There are tutors or even college courses if a child shows aptitude. And different teaching methodology is not always what it is cracked up to be. For example, decades of research and recent studies of how the brain functions show that reading is best taught phonetically, in most cases. Yet most schools continue to focus on "whole language" which emphasizes memorization of entire words and context. Most children who are taught this method have a more difficult time learning to read and don't have good comprehension skills. The "best" method is what works for each individual child. Who knows better than a parent how her child learns most effectively? A teacher with 30+ kids per class and 7 classes per day? Can that teacher even really know any of his students in a meaningful way? From experience, you know the students on the extreme ends of the spectrum. The great bulk of students fall in the normal range and don't get a lot of attention, positive or negative. That's incredibly sad, but true.

There is an interesting concept that's been implemented in some public schools which seems to be the best of all possible worlds. In elementary schools, students are grouped in classes and taught by one teacher from kindergarten through sixth or seventh grades. The teacher knows each child over an extended period of time and can tailor certain learning experiences to each child. Also, each student can work at her own pace because there is no arbitrary period of time in which to learn skills, concepts, and information (except for seven or eight years). In middle and high school kids are grouped in classes and taught for the entire length of time by a corresponding group of teachers. The beauty of this is that teachers can plan themes that cross all disciplines and "trade off" class time. For example, the history teacher may require a two hour block to do a specific lesson. She can use the English teacher's designated block of the schedule and at some time in the future let the other teacher use the history period when necessary. Needless to say, this only works (at all grade levels) when class size is small. And that means more teachers overall and most school districts can't afford it.

-- Anonymous, June 22, 2000

The first time I was exposed to homeschooling was when a friend of mine's family was stationed to a very remote location overseas - the base had no US school nearby, so their options were putting them in the local school system (language barrier), boarding them to England, or home schooling.

For them it worked out great, because a group of parents pooled their resources and talents together, so that full burden was removed from the parents, and the kids got a variety of teachers and peers. There were about a dozen of them, all ages.

I actually went to college with the intention of looking toward homeschooling - I want to learn some about teaching methods. Life took a turn that made it impossible for me to be able to stay home to do it, but if I had, I'd have wanted to find other parents to partner with. I think it's a wonderful idea for those who have the time, skill and resources to pull it off.

My concern - and I'm no longer up on the laws or how it varies from state to state - is that the kids should be able to fulfill some sort of skill set. I have known of a couple local kids here where homeschooling was heavy in religious doctrine and very light on any fact that might endanger that - not just science, but reading, history, etc. At some point, those kids have to be able to function in an unprotected environment, where the world won't pretend to be something it isn't to suit their parent's sensibilities, and there should be something in place to ensure that they can.

-- Anonymous, June 23, 2000

Grace said: "I did, however, hear about the home schooling thing where you let a kid naturally start to read and learn, so you had 11 year olds who didnt know how to read yet. It was a form of home schooling that I think is legal here in Texas. Thats nuts. If you home school, you cant just leave out the school part. You do actually have to teach something & the child has to learn. Otherwise, you are denying the child what he/she needs to learn in order to be a successful adult."

I knew a woman that practiced this method of education with her children. Her son is 8 years old and just recently learned how to read. Her reasoning was: "When he's ready to learn, he will."

They tried doing the charter school thing for a while (I think that's what they were involved in), she tried homeschooling, her son had a brief stint in public school (she pulled him out after a week or two in kindergarten - 'It was too stressful for him!') and now both of her children are in a public school. I think it's public. (Anyone in the sacramento area know if Orangevale Open is public? I don't remember.)

I recently asked her why she never explored Homeschooling more, and I admired her honesty in her answer. She basically admitted that she didn't have it within her to make the kids to x amount of work for y amount of hours a day. She was too lax.

I hope that I don't have that problem, since I plan to homeschool my daughter. Unless school systems make some drastic changes in the next five years.

-- Anonymous, June 23, 2000

Katie wrote:

Who knows better than a parent how her child learns most effectively? A teacher with 30+ kids per class and 7 classes per day?

Well, you'd think that would be the case, but based on my own experience, it wasn't. I wasn't home schooled per se, but when I was growing up, my mom, who was an elementary school teacher and then a principal, spent a lot of time schooling me in my afterschool hours, and I found it to be a terribly frustrating experience simply because her teaching style wasn't right for me.

"Changing your teaching style" may sound trivial, but I think it's rare for someone to be perceptive enough to infer a student's needs and then alter the way they express ideas or give feedback, even among those with educational training.

-- Anonymous, June 23, 2000

I think it can work if the parent is adequately skilled, and providing the child has ample social contact with other children. But I'd never do it. Children need to learn to get by in the world, keeping them out of school isolates them.

-- Anonymous, June 23, 2000

Just a few more comments....

Homeschooling is just an option, and no, I do not think it is for everyone. I know somepeople who homeschool who shouldn't, and I know other with kids in public school who would excell at homeschooling.

I have known of a couple local kids here where homeschooling was heavy in religious doctrine and very light on any fact that might endanger that - not just science, but reading, history, etc. At some point, those kids have to be able to function in an unprotected environment, where the world won't pretend to be something it isn't to suit their parent's sensibilities, and there should be something in place to ensure that they can.

THis can be true of some curriculm for homeschols and private Christian schools we've used one in fact. It was great for the lower grades, but the upper grades are so light on real skills like science, history (other than Biblical) etc..., that the oly jobs the graduates at the school got into (without extra training) was working at other schools using the same curriculum, becoming a pastor, or being a missionary. Kinda limits your options.

The "let your kids learn naturally" method is commonly refered to as "unschooling". I don't know anyone who does it, but I do like to use some of the principles *within the context of our structure*. For example, we might need to study a particular subject, adn I'll let the kids pick specific something within that which interests them, then let 'em learn it as fast as they like. With a set minimum.

I am getting a slight impression that some people think homescholing means "school at home". Let me tell you it is different. I don't stand at the front of the room instructing them like a one-room schoolhouse. :-) A lot of their work is self-taught, because we've "trained" ourselves to work independantly. Read the work on your own, do the assignment. Show Mom. This is one way conflicting teaching/learning styles may be overcome. And in our house, Dad actually does some of the teaching, and his style is waaay different than mine. We have actually learned, too, without a degree, how to change the manner in which we teach a concept if the child just isn't getting it.

Children need to learn to get by in the world, keeping them out of school isolates them. It can, and lots of people I know try to make a concience effort to expose their children (including mine) to as many other ideas as possible. As far as getting along in the world, I know my kids are learning how to run a household, manage bills and time, provide food for themselves by way of our large garden and many other things. IT's also why we belong to as many youth groups and support groups as possible.

-- Anonymous, June 23, 2000

Our first child is still in utero for a few weeks, but we already know we're committed to homeschooling. Our political beliefs don't necessarily accord with the pablum they hand out in the public schools, but that's not the reason. We simply have more resources than the "public" does out here in the sticks. Our library is literally larger than the town's; I've had more training in teaching, thanks to being a grad student, than the people working at the local elementary. They try hard, but really, the only reason there's a public school here is that there has to be, not because it really offers an education. Perhaps as they get into middle school and high school age, our kids will want to go to the public schools. If we've done our job right as parents, they'll be competent enough to make those decisions by then.

-- Anonymous, June 23, 2000

andrea, i hope your sex ed training for your children involved oral, anal, gay, and fisting sex. of coursed, you cannot find such practices "on the farm". if you did not cover these topics then you just are not "understanding" enough. Right, Beth?

-- Anonymous, June 23, 2000

Jarvis, either you are deliberately misunderstanding what I said or you are too stupid to live. I responded to your comment on the other topic in a perfectly rational and civilized manner, and you respond with nonsensical PC accusations and this most recent jab. If you can't disagree with someone without acting like a big baby, then please go away.

-- Anonymous, June 23, 2000

Katie said: have heard of homeschoolers who do internships with mentors in professions that interest them because they are not tied to school. And homeschooled kids have the freedom to do their learning in many different settings. I can count on one hand the number of times I was outside in a learning situation at public school, yet homeschooled kids can spend the entire day outside if the weather allows.

The entire day outside doing *what*? While I'd hope that learning can be both educational and fun, some structure is required.

As for mentorships, I'd need to know more information. Perhaps a high school age student might be useful there, but for younger kids, it sounds more feel-good then useful.

-- Anonymous, June 23, 2000

Here's that article I was talking about yesterday... "unschooling"

http://www.houstonpress.com/issues/2000-04- 20/feature.html/page1.html (You'll get a new window. Enjoy!)

-- Anonymous, June 23, 2000

I'm also interested in why you would want to willingly subject a child to high school after schooling them at home.

Why would I deny my children completely, the experience of school?

School isn't always horrible. High school can be an awful lot of fun even if you're not one of the "cool" kids. High school can be a very positive experience -- it was for me, for example, after years of torture and derision in junior high.

Also, I won't be able to protect my children from every cruel word forever. All that I can do is equip them to handle what they encounter out there and be there to comfort them when things hurt. People say stupid things everywhere at all stages of life -- that kind of behavior isn't limited to school. It's just more acute between the ages of 10 and 15, give or take a few years.

I also realize that if I choose to home school my children, that there are certain subjects that I, or my husband will not be able to impart to them. Advanced math and physics are certainly beyond my ability to teach. Yet these are things that I firmly believe my children should learn. Unless I have the money for a tutor, or can work out an agreement with another set of parents or a homeschooling group, then the only place for them to learn these things, will be at school.

I don't have any children yet, but I'm already thinking ahead to the day when I will. The issue of schooling is a big one for me, because I do want my children to be well-educated and I have reservations about the robustness of the public-school system in this country.

In the end, the decision for me will depend on a lot of factors, a big one will be what my children are like, they don't exist yet, so I haven't met them, I don't know them. When I do meet them, I'll be able to judge better whether home-schooling or regular school, or some combination of both is more suited to them. I also have to consider my own abilities as a teacher, our economic and geographic location when the time comes.

I just hope that I'll have the same choices that parents have today, or perhaps, even more choices to give my children the education that they will need to survive.

-- Anonymous, June 23, 2000

Uh.. thanks, Beth.

If my kids, who are 12, 9 and 7, if you remember, *asked me* about those sorts of subjects (and the oldest on edoes know what gay sex involves), then yes, I would answer them. I'll just have to remember my tags next time I use my farm example.

-- Anonymous, June 23, 2000

I would strongly consider homeschooling any kids I'd have. I've taught in public schools, even magnet schools for gifted kids, and the kids were largely bored and undereducated. Bright kids will usually find things to do outside of school which challenge them. When I was in 8th grade, I begged my mom to let me stop going to school & just do library research based projects & other life experiences to build skills. I still wish I'd been able to do that. Then I went to Hampshire College, where I designed my own educational experience, and then I went to library school.

I'm one of those people who wish licensing for parents were feasible, and I'd add in a contractual thing where they had to homeschool or otherwise directly educate their kid for half of the years between age 5 and 18. Parents could decide what worked best from the situation, their own & the kid's needs each year. This would mean the parent took a true responsibility and role in the kids education, which is sorely lacking these days & leads, I think, to several larger societal ills. And lonely, bored kids whose parents don't know them very well. It would also means that kids would have a diversity of experiences, helping them build fliexibility into their characters (needed for survival in the world), and that kids would normally be as different (in acceptable ways) from one another, leading to more tolerance and more unique, interesting people with things to truly share with one another, which 4 years in the same group of kids in the same classes does not provide.

Much more to say, as you can probably guess...but I'll stop here for now.

-- Anonymous, June 23, 2000

I'm getting a sense from some posts of a belief that *good* parents homeschool. Not every parents has the financial resources or the interest in being a teacher:::even with their own kids. What about the parent's careers?

Frankly, these parents whose *entire* lives are focussed exclusively on their little family unit disturb me.

-- Anonymous, June 23, 2000

Joy,

I think you're making some assumptions that may not be true. No one has said that people who send their kids to public schools are bad parents. I don't believe that, anyway. I think it's perfectly fine for parents to send their kids to public school.

Also, having the time and inclination to homeschool does not necessarily indicate that someone's entire life is focused exclusively on their family unit. The career I'm developing is flexible, and I doubt that teaching my children will prevent me from wanting to have other interests and adult friends (quite the opposite, probably!). I agree that it seems a bit odd to have no life beyond the limits of one's nuclear family, but I don't think that choosing to homeschool automatically puts someone into that category.

-- Anonymous, June 23, 2000

Joy, I think you should be frightened of parents who *don't* focus on their children. My current job is raising my twins -- and I take it very seriously. That's why I'm so interested in alternatives to public school education. I don't think that homeschooling is for everyone, but if it works for the families that go that route, where's the bad?

I guess that parents are always in a no-win situation. If you take your parental responsibilities seriously, you're "too focused" and if you don't give a thought to how to raise your children, you're evil. I am in no way stating that any parent who chooses public school is a bad parent or doesn't love his kids. I went into parenthood just accepting the fact that my desires and needs would take a backseat to the needs of my children, for a time (I did not go into parenthood expecting twins, however!).

I thought, erroneously, according to Joy, that parents who have their children's best interests at the forefront were being responsible and making an effort to raise productive adults.

That being said, Andrea, I am very interested in the fact that your kids are not inly educated at home, but contribute to the family in tangible ways (like chores and understanding the finances). My parents always kept my brothers and I informed of how our financial situation worked and its something I want to do with my girls. I think it fosters a real understanding of money and how it works.

I also find all the concern about socialization interesting. Universal public education is a fairly recent development. Somehow, throughout the rest of human history, families "socialized" their kids.

-- Anonymous, June 23, 2000

Chemistry 2
English 4 - British Lit
Art 1
Advanced Math/Trig
Advanced Biology
AP Government - a college level course
an internship type teacher assistant program at a middle school which included teaching a class for a week

I graduated from high school this spring. These are the classes I took this year. Now I will be the first to admit that there are wonderful devoted parents out there that are willing and able to give their children excellent home educations. They are few and far between. There is such a variety of classes available in public school, it is virtually impossible for a single person (or even two or three) to be knowledgable enough in all the different areas to be able to teach them adequatly. How many people do you know that could teach a class on carpentry, automotive technology, computer applications, sewing, botany, calculus, weightlifting, theatre, dance, world history, psychology, creative writing and horticulture? Those were all classes offered at my school.

Sure, I had my share of bad teachers. I had boring classes, work I could have done with my eyes closed, and irritating classmates. But you know what? I wouldn't have traded it for a home school education for anything. Because I also had some incredible teachers. I had classes where I would come home and start telling my parents about something interesting I'd learned and thought they might find interesting also.

I learned tolerance in public schools. Socialization. Sure, anyone can be well mannered and polite, if they are taught it. But manners will only get you so far. I realize that even now. You can be as sweet as you can and still walked over. This is something that I think you can only overcome by experience. In a school setting you are forced to learn to understand people. You need to know what to say to make them listen to and understand you. I can't imagine home- schooled students developing this skill as completely, simply because they are not exposed as many people. They do not have to sit next to the boy who spends the whole class period talking about rims for his car. They don't know that the only way to get him to stop talking is to ask him directly. They do not every have to be the odd one out in a group and they will not be put in the position to be able to ask the "loser" sitting alone to come into their groups.

It is good AND the bad aspects of public schools that make me instinctivly want to want to avoid homeschooling. I honestly do not believe I would be as adequatly prepared to move away from my family, into a college environment and into a work environment had I been homeschooled.

-- Anonymous, June 24, 2000

Rishara,

Advanced and specialized classes are part of the reason why I'll consider public high school for my children, when I have them. Another part will be extracurricular activities like sports and dances. I plan to consider every possible aspect, as well as what the kids want, once they reach that age. I feel that I will be able to do a great job of giving my kids their early education. I hope that I will also be able to come up with creative alternatives to what they could get out of traditional high schools, so that they can have more options. I do appreciate hearing your perspective, because it's a good reminder that the important thing is to consider the needs of each individual. One person might really love the school environment, and another might thrive better elsewhere.

-- Anonymous, June 24, 2000

Rishara -- I do think it's wonderful that you took those classes, and I think you make an excellent point. However, even though I feel that I got a good public school education, not one of the courses on your list was offered at my high school. The only AP course offered was English, and only the basic levels of science and math were offered. I still think I did fine because I love to read and learned a lot on my own, but I'm just saying that not every school district offers such courses, and for various reasons, the parents may not be able to move to a school district that does.

-- Anonymous, June 24, 2000

Rishara,

It sounds like you had an excellent time in high school, and learned quite a lot. However, I do respectfully disagree with a couple of your points.

There is such a variety of classes available in public school, it is virtually impossible for a single person (or even two or three) to be knowledgable enough in all the different areas to be able to teach them adequatly. How many people do you know that could teach a class on carpentry, automotive technology, computer applications, sewing, botany, calculus, weightlifting, theatre, dance, world history, psychology, creative writing and horticulture?

You would be surprised at the number of people who can teach at least half of your list adequately. For myself, I can easily teach sewing since I was a dressmaker, theatre since I worked for one, dance, botany and horticulture. Since my husband is a computer programmer/analyst, he easily tackles the comuputer class, calculus, world history (a hobby) and is a dandy writer himself. As for carpentry, we'vwe been building our own house for 8 years, and yes, the kids help. What better class is that? Automotive? My brother-in- law lives across the road and owns an auto body shop. He's always looking for help and is patient.

Also, many people do not realize the number of options available for extra classes. If I don't know of a particular subject matter, I can learn it along with my child (since we're mostly teaching how to learn independantly as opposed to memorizing facts & techniques) or I can actually hire someone else to teach that subject to my child. Universities, colleges and all kinds of other places offer extra courses for school-age children, whether they are enrolled in the school system or not.

There has been a study done which shows that the educational background of the homeschooling parent has no effect on the student's academic scores.

The homeschooled child can actually come in contact with a fair number of people of all ages on any given day. This to me is far better than the large amount of the same people of the same age at the same school. The house isn't all that quiet, either. It is actually harder to concentrate at home than it is in a classroom setting. The phone rings, there is someone at the door, lunch is cooking and your sister won't stop singing the Barney theme song. We do try to balance our children's exposures with different veiwpoints, other than our own.

One of the reasons we are not keen on sending any of our children to either local high school (one of which is the largest in Canada) is, in short, the violence. They have on-duty police officers, drug busts and bomb threats. Not to mention teachers who look the other way when "minor" violence occurs. We all have to learn to take a punch, right? These are not inner-city high schools, either. The population of our whole province is about 750,000. My husband would like to point out exactly how much learning goes on when the teacher's time is taken up dealing with "miscreants"?

As far as being prepared for the real world, I feel they will be better prepared. you can know some of what is out there without having to actually experience it. If you have heard of attachment parenting, then you may know that these youngsters actually have less seperation anxiety and are willing to leave their parents earlier.

Jsut as some people can do an excellent job within the school system, there are others who manage quite well at home. It's not for everyone, and we usually take it on a year-by-year basis.

-- Anonymous, June 24, 2000

Homeschooling discussions always seem to get heated when a bunch of people start throwing their opinions in the mix. I don't quite understand the reason behind that, but hey...

I was homeschooled from the time I started school until the time that I graduated high school. I never felt that I missed out on having a lot of teachers with their different teaching techniques. I became quite relaxed in the environment that I learned in. Dad taught science, math and history. Mom did most of the rest. I taught myself how to speak fluent French and I learned how to use the computer on my own.

Being homeschooled allows a person to broaden their horizons on their own without having a teacher or fellow classmate shoving a topic down their throat. I was always encouraged to do my own thing -- to have my own hobbies and interests and learn about them on my own. I am a very self-motivated person because of the home schooling and that has given me the ability to start my own business and work on my own without the direction of others. I don't like being under someone else's thumb because I've always been independent because I had to be to make the homeschooling work. And if being independent and being the kind of person who knows what she wants and when she wants it is bad, so be it.

As far as not having interaction with peers: you can't miss something that you've never had. I never missed associating with hundreds of fellow students on a daily basis. I had other activities that I did with adults while I was growing up and I think that made me a better person because I never went through that snobbish "Oh-look-at-me-I-am- 16-and-all-that-huh!" stage that a kid's peers helps them go through. I've always been respectful because that was all I ever knew.

All in all, I recommend homeschooling because parents can control what kind of environment their children are in. They can encourage them to think on their own at a much younger age. Homeschooling teaches self-discipline and self-respect. Public schools lack both of those things for the majority.

College was not that much of an adjustment for me. So, spoken from a homeschooled kid who is on her way to being a doctor, I loved it! And I think that I'm doing pretty well in the education and career department. :-)

-- Anonymous, June 24, 2000

Amen to whoever it was who said you have to go by the individual child's needs, and that homeschooling is only one option. If Jeremy and I had a child, and by some miracle he or she picked up a recessive gene that meant that he or she would thrive in a traditional classroom/school environment, then hey, I certainly wouldn't keep that child out of school.

But based on our aptitudes and personalities, I'd say it's far more likely that we'd get a child who is the same way that we were: bored and miserable in school, never learning a thing. We both learn the same way, i.e., on our own, by burying ourselves in a subject until we have it mastered. That's not how classrooms work. The result: kids like me, who did fine because I can memorize anything and spit it back, even though the only thing I really learned in school was how to pass a test without understanding any of the material, and kids like Jeremy, who did poorly and also didn't learn much at all.

We were warehoused for twelve years. We both have IQ's in the 150's, and we spent twelve years being bored and rebellious and not learning a thing. I think that sucks, and I wouldn't want the same thing to happen to my kid.

Rishara mentions the following subjects: carpentry, automotive technology, computer applications, sewing, botany, calculus, weightlifting, theatre, dance, world history, psychology, creative writing and horticulture. Are you honestly suggesting that any one student can take all of those classes? Because I'm not sure how that would fit into the type of high school schedule I'm familiar with. Between basic requirements and the AP/Honors classes that are now de rigeur for college admission, I doubt anyone could take all of those. (Not that more than two of those were offered at my high school, anyway.) And actually, almost all of those topics could be taught in our immediate family. Maybe we have more diverse families than most?

But all of those subjects are offered at community colleges. In fact, that's one of the major advantages of home schooling, as I understand it: home schooled kids often get through their basic requirements in less time, so they have the opportunity to study topics like those suggested.

-- Anonymous, June 24, 2000

The home schooled kids I've been exposed to were not bright, inquisitive or well-educated. But the reason they were home-schooled is because they were being kept from (as someone expressed it) "undesirable elements" in the public schools. The father is the stay-at-home teacher, but he can't spell or write an email that is grammatically correct.

Yet he has the right to keep his kids at home (justifying his being there without a job, natch) and he forwards every positive article about home schooling, stating how well that home-schooled kids do on tests, etc.

I'm sure that some parents handle it seriously, and that for some kids it works. But a friend of mine who was a teacher investigated home schooling (she has a 4-year-old and is facing this choice next year) and came to the conclusion that she will be home-schooling her daughter at home anyway. She already is. That she will supplement what the child doesn't get at school. In the meantime, the schools will offer teachers with specialities she doesn't have, social situations she can't provide, and extracurricular activities beyond the scope of the home-schooling community.

-- Anonymous, June 24, 2000

I'd never thought of it before I had a baby, but I've started considering home schooling. In all likelihood Sophia's going to be very intelligent. The school system didn't do much for her mom other than teach her how to skate by, and I'd like Sophia to have a different attitude toward education than I did.

Every single resource I've found for home schooling goes into the socialization question quite heavily -- it's an issue that's been explored. :)

And, lastly, all of the home schooled people I knew were exceptionally intelligent and were accepted places like Berkeley.

-- Anonymous, June 24, 2000

Beth asks if I honestly believe anyone can *all* of those classes along with the basic requirements and the college prep classes. Of course not, but you can have a fair sampling. I believe these classes are given to allow students to get a feel for what they do and do not like without making a major committment (such as taking a full college class.)

For example, if I were homeschooled, it would have never occured to me to study business and financial management. I would have never thought to picking up a book to learn about the set-up of corporations, much less being interested enough in it to think about taking a class at a community college. But I had a free space in my schedule and it was an available class so I took it. It did not interest me very much (the subject matter) so now I have a reasonably good idea that I do not want to go into a career in that area. When I was naming all of those classes, I did not mean to insinuate that parents could not learn the subject matter or find someone who could teach it. They can research and teach it thoroughly to themselves. But how many of them actually think of incorporating things like that, outside of the basic "core" subjects? Even though you could learn it, would you actually think of giving those options, exposing the student to topics that would not jump immediatly to mind but would eventually help tremendously when planning for the future?

-- Anonymous, June 25, 2000

Actually, yes, Rishara, I probably would have thought of financial planning, and a whole lot of other things. I'm not going to argue with you about what was best for you and what would have been best for me and what I think is likely to be best for any child I might have in the future; I'll just tell you that people are very different. They're different in what motivates them; they're different in their curiosities and their willingness to seek out new things.

I mean, I still study college catalogues to see if there are unusual subjects I might be interested in, and I've been out of college for ten years. I don't imagine I'll ever stop doing that, and I doubt my child would be any different.

And that's certainly not because I was exposed to a lot of diversity in my high school courses. Of that list you mentioned earlier, my high school had autoshop and a drama class. We didn't have any AP or honors courses, and we certainly didn't have a course in financial planning. I managed to learn a lot about many different subjects because I practically lived at the library. I learned a lot more from reading and studying on my own than I ever did in school.

So, you know, just don't assume everyone is like you.

-- Anonymous, June 25, 2000

Oh, and you'll find this out soon enough, but ... a single college course is generally less of a commitment than a high school elective. My memory is that most high school classes, even electives, span the entire year, and it's much harder to fit electives into your high school schedule because the school day is only so long, so you have little flexibility in scheduling. It's actually a lot easier to dabble in college than it is in high school.

-- Anonymous, June 25, 2000

I'm wondering about the other side of homeschooling... the teaching. It is very difficult to teach. Perhaps only people who are good teachers have the desire to home-school their kids, but what about the exceptions? I know you can't count on good teaching in public schools, but at least you may have a variety to choose from. Several of my friends swear by one particular teacher they had who really lit a fire under them, introduced them to something, got them motivated. Not to deny the problems with public schools as they are now, but I also wonder about the ability of parents to give their kids space to be different from them, want different things than they do. It seems very complicated.

however, being neither public- nor home-schooled, I can't speak from experience. Elementary school (private, Quaker) was pretty good, and I had a great time in high school, not because I was an "omigod I'm so popular I'm a cheerleader" person, but because a small private school for artists and counterculture folk was just my speed. (Although what if a parent bent on home-school has a kid who wants to be one of those "omigod" people?)

-- Anonymous, June 25, 2000

Trouble -

Teaching a child at home is quite a bit more difficult than sitting down each evening and helping them go over their homework, but that is quite obvious. I have never had the experience of home schooling a child but I was a home schooled child and I think I did very well.

To teach a child at home takes a lot of self-discipline and motivation. A person needs to research materials to teach children at home and they need to be familiar with the subjects. I'm not saying that the parent teaching the child needs to have a degree in each subject that is being taught but general information about it never hurts. For an example, I remember once when I wanted to take an advanced math class in high school. My father wasn't sure of the advanced parts of the "course" that I was taking so he read the books and did a bit of homework (no pun intended...) and learned it so that he could better teach me the materials.

After a person establishes a routine with their children as far as their studies and the time that needs to be spent on their studies, the general learning process will be much easier on both the parents and the childen. I was always the kid of "student" that was searching for new topics to teach myself. As I said above in this thread, I taught myself French when I was in high school and all I had was a few basic tapes and books and a few computer programs.

So I'd say that, overall, if a parent is absolutely interested in spending as much time as possible educating their children and taking the time to research things before presenting it to their children, it will be an easy process for everyone involved.

-- Anonymous, June 25, 2000

And, lastly, all of the home schooled people I knew were exceptionally intelligent and were accepted places like Berkeley.

This is so true, Diane (about being accepted in great colleges)! More and more of the best colleges are quite interested in young adults that have been home schooled because, as it has been stated to me, home schooled people are usually more devoted to their studies than the typical person fresh out of high school. I'm not saying that this is totally true because I haven't looked into the statistics, but this is what I have been told time and time again.

I never had any trouble when I started college and I was home schooled from day one. Now I'm on a path to becoming a psychologist. I guess I was one of the lucky ones who loved being home schooled so I tend to encourage everyone to home school their kids if possible.

-- Anonymous, June 25, 2000

I do have a child and we are not planning to home school. In order to home school, one of the parents has to be, well, home. Except in our case it would be station wagon schooling because we would be living in our car under a bridge somewhere if both my SO and I didn't have jobs.

-- Anonymous, June 25, 2000

"We were warehoused for twelve years. We both have IQ's in the 150's, and we spent twelve years being bored and rebellious and not learning a thing. I think that sucks, and I wouldn't want the same thing to happen to my kid"

We plan on homeschooling our children (when we have them) just for the above reason. My husband hated school, because he was so incredibly bored. The classes were not challenging enough.

I didn't hate school, but I cruised through it. I did the least amount to pass. Our test scores were incredible, but our homework was nonexistent.

I do not want my children having to deal with that. Between us, and our families, we have enough knowledge that their is very little our children would not have access to learning.

-- Anonymous, June 26, 2000

I think one of the main questions has to be whether the parent who is schooling the child is qualified to do so. Judging by the quality of correspondence from adults that I witnessed in every job I've had, many parents just aren't up to the job of teaching a child properly. Perhaps there should be some sort of test one must pass -- not unlike the certification exams actual teachers have to take -- in order to be allowed to homeschool one's child. Frankly, I don't put much stock in the mere qualification of a high school diploma; hell, I've known people with PhD's who couldn't tie their shoes without going through the whole fox chasing the rabbit into a hole routine.

-- Anonymous, June 26, 2000

I dated a guy in college who had been home-schooled till he was 14 - at which point his parents thought his chances of getting into an Ivy League school would improve if he had a real high school transcript.

To be perfectly blunt, he had almost no social skills. He was incredibly extroverted and charismatic, but he couldn't relate to people normally. He had a standard of behavior which he held everyone up to, and no one was good enough. Plus he was an only child, so he HAD to be the center of attention at all times, otherwise he figured you didn't really like him. Paranoia and a big ego. Little jealousy things which I think I got over in junior high...

Sure, you can say "well I hated school anyway, I wasn't social at all", butI think until you actually see someone who's been in that isolated environment, you don't realize what they've missed. The little things which you need to learn before you're eighteen, otherwise you don't get them.

-- Anonymous, June 26, 2000

A couple people have mentioned socialization. Socialization in public schools does not always help the students. My husband is an extreme introvert, HS didn't change that, in fact it made him withdraw further.

I will not allow my children to be subjected to that. No one should be subjected to forced socialization, some people are natural loners.

-- Anonymous, June 26, 2000

Suzy:

I think you're misunderstanding "socialization". It's not to make people sociable, or extroverts, but merely to teach kids how to function in a society of their peers.

-- Anonymous, June 26, 2000

Suzy, people need to learn to relate to their peers, no matter how much they may dislike that, if for no other reason than employers generally hire those who they feel would work well with others and who demonstrate basic social skills.

-- Anonymous, June 26, 2000

Some folks might be interested to know that many public school teachers are not as "qualified" as you may think (re: Jackie's comment that parents need to be qualified, in some way, to homeschool their kids).

In California, the teacher certification requirements are waived to get bodies in front of students. True, most of these "teachers" have gone to college, but not all. They may a few credits shy of graduation. But certification requirements are being waived all over the state to meet the class size requirements (primarily in poorer school districts). So your kid's "teacher" may be that in name only.

In Arizona, teachers in charter schools are not even required to have a college degree. Of course, most parents know this when they enroll their children.

I am a credentialed teacher in the State of California. But the state doesn't seem to feel that all teachers in the public schools must be and I don't know of any school that informs parents who is certified and who isn't.

-- Anonymous, June 26, 2000

That is a shame, but I don't think it negates the fact that parents who read on a sixth grade level or have no math or languages (or any other) skills should not be allowed to assume the role of sole educator for their child. Any parent who wants the best for their child would surely put their own pride aside to assure that their children are taught by someone with at least basic qualifications.

-- Anonymous, June 26, 2000

Jackie,

I think public schools should be funded in an equitable manner, not primarily based on local home property taxes. I think all children who attend public schools should be in safe buildings that are in good repair. I think all children in public schools should have access to the same educational opportunities

Facilities, course offerings, and instruction vary so widely in the US public schools. So do parents' ideas of what is best for their children. I don't agree with all parents' choices. Some feel that their children should have the best material possessions. Some feel their children should excel in certain disciplines at the exclusion of others. Some parents feel their children should "do better" than them and damn the cost.

We can both toss "shoulds" around like confetti and the fact remains that homeschooling is an option to public education. I don't feel that it negates the need for public education. I'm also glad that you don't get to decide what is best for anyone's kids. My grandmother had a 6th grade education and no skills, according to you. She educated my mother and one of my aunts for several years in a rural community with no public school. I would say that your educational assumptions are showing.

-- Anonymous, June 26, 2000

Katie, you're talking to someone who has personally campaigned to Senators and Representatives to Congress about the inequality in school funding (via Ohio's Adequacy and Equity in School Funding Campaign), so please, spare me the lecture.

As for all this: We can both toss "shoulds" around like confetti and the fact remains that homeschooling is an option to public education.

I didn't say that it wasn't. Where are we disagreeing, here?

I'm also glad that you don't get to decide what is best for anyone's kids. My grandmother had a 6th grade education and no skills, according to you.

Actually, I didn't say one word about your grandmother, Katie, and I think you'd be best advised to take a step back and read what you're saying and what I'm saying. My contention is that there are people whose own educations and level of suitability for teaching a child is not sufficient enough for them to be trusted as a child's sole educator. Do you think that every parent who home schools their child is up to the job? I don't. I think that the interests of the child should come first, and that a parent should have to demonstrate that they are qualified to be their child's sole educator, for the child's sake.

She educated my mother and one of my aunts for several years in a rural community with no public school. I would say that your educational assumptions are showing.

And I would say that you're having a difficult time discerning the difference between what I've said and what you think I've said. I think it's wonderful that your grandmother was a great educator; I have nothing against home schooling, per se. I think that a reasonable person would agree, however, that not all parents make suitable educators. Human beings are fallible, and some of them just aren't cut out to be their child's sole educator. For the child's sake, I think that there should be something in place to protect them from receiving an inadequate education.

-- Anonymous, June 26, 2000

A great many people seem to be leaning toward home schooling because their own memories of school are negative, because they are intelligent and/or loners and/or whatever ....

I'm just curious. Will you wait and see if your kids really are like you? Will you let them try public school and see if they like it? Or do you plan to home school assuming that if you were a certain way, your kids will be.

Just wondering, since I'm very different from either of my parents, and my three grown sons are all entirely different from one another. I can picture one son who might have done well in a home schooling situation, but two who are such extreme extroverts I think they would have been miserable if they weren't surrounded by lots of people and lots of activity.

My "baby" turned 21 Saturday. So excuse me (go ahead, throw tomatoes if you want) but I'm amused by all the assumptions being thrown around here about what your kids (some of whom haven't even been born yet) will be like, especially if you're assuming they're going to be just like you.

OTOH, it's entirely natural and normal, and I'm just glad I didn't put some of my predictions in black and white.

Oh, and I'd also like to point out that the parents are always the ones who are responsible for their kids' education, whether they're in public schools, private school are home schooled. People seem to be drawing a line, but believe me, all these values and love for learning and enhancements you want to supply can be supplied with a public school education. My kids always knew a lot more about science and the world around them than most kids and even some teachers, because my husband has such an interest. They were exposed to camping, hiking, all sorts of "naturalist" activities and wild life, weather, astronomy, even some basic chemistry and such, here at home. We never assumed that because they were being taught at school, we didn't have the responsibility to enhance their educations.

I personally think it was the best of both worlds.

-- Anonymous, June 26, 2000

Uh, I think I'm the only childless person here who was talking about homeschooling if my child were like me, and every time I mentioned it, it was with the caveat that if my child turned out to be very different than me or Jeremy, we'd send them to school if we thought that was best.

Of course, I happen to think that the whole idea of compulsory education consisting of seven hours in a classroom is absolute bullshit, but if I had a kid who was rarin' to go for that, I wouldn't stop them.

-- Anonymous, June 27, 2000

Actually, I want to elaborate on that. People have been pushing school as a necessary component of socialization. I think that's probably true -- if what you mean by "socialization" is grooming our young to be good little corporate sheep who buy what they're told to buy, think what they're supposed to think, and work their assigned eight hour days in a cubicle without wanting to commit suicide.

People managed to get along with one another before there were public schools. Children managed to grow up to interact with other folks of all ages before they were assigned to age-specific groups and told to sit in a chair and not fidget all day for nine months out of the year. I don't know why there is an assumption that our current model is the best system, or even a good system, when it's relatively new -- and while people may be more educated than they used to be (I'm not convinced that this is universally true), they don't seem to me to be any happier.

Certainly there are many, many things that children need to learn before they become adults. I am not at all convinced that they need to learn those things in school.

I've said this before.

-- Anonymous, June 27, 2000

Sorry if it looked like I was aiming that at you, Beth. Actually, I thought several people had voiced the same sentiment.

Pooks

-- Anonymous, June 27, 2000

Actually, Pooks, you're right; some other people did express the same sentiment. So I'm sorry for snapping!

Back on that subject, I'm thinking of the home schooled kids I know -- it seems like in every family, there was at least one child who went to public or private school for a while. I think most families discover pretty early that what works for one child -- or what was planned in the abstract -- doesn't always work for everyone.

-- Anonymous, June 27, 2000

As I mentioned earlier, going to school every day isn't the only way to have socialization. The home schooling people I know got together so their children could play and have socialization even though they were educated at home.

-- Anonymous, June 27, 2000

What is it about the national spelling bee that makes home schooling look appealing?

I'm not looking down on either institution. But my feeling about the national spelling bee is that it rewards someone who devotes an obsessive amount of time studying spelling. Rote-learning.

Now, some kids spend that kind of obsessive energy on hobbies, sports, reading, computers, etc. It's not the obsessive energy that I'm curious about. I have nothing against spelling bees.

But when I see a muscially gifted child who obviously has spent many many hours learning her music, or a gymnast, or science fair or academic decathalon or any number of different things -- I think, I understand why the kid would be interested. I understand why the family would be supportive. Even if it's not my interest, I get why somebody is interested in it.

But there's something about "spelling" that seems to have little payoff. Where's the joy in it? The payoff?

I'm not saying there isn't one. I'm hoping someone will tell me what it is. Because seeing a kid do well in a spelling bee and knowing that they had extra time to devote to studying for it isn't inspirational to me. So I think I'm missing something.

-- Anonymous, June 27, 2000

I can't remember where I read this, but I read that the home schooled kids studied pretty much the same amount of time as the schooled kids -- in both cases they spent a lot of time at it, but the home schooled kids didn't spend an extraordinary amount of time at it.

-- Anonymous, June 27, 2000

I used to do really well in spelling bees as a kid, but it wasn't because I spent lots of time memorizing. I read tons of books and studied Latin from a young age. To some people, words are just puzzles. Lots of the words I heard on the news excerpt of the recent spelling bees were medical terms that anyone could figure out if they had some knowledge of the roots and how the word was put together.

-- Anonymous, June 28, 2000

Pooks, I think you're making a lot of assumptions about people who are good spellers. I never spend any time studying spelling, and I always did very well in spelling bees. Why? Because I was (and am) a voracious reader. I loved to read, I loved language and with reading being such a part of my life, I never had a problem with either spelling or grammar. Like anyone, I misspell a word here or there, and I've long since forgotten what a gerund is, but my proficiency in languages and spelling wasn't the result of spending hours trying to memorize lists of words. I know many people have had the same experience.

-- Anonymous, June 28, 2000

Spelling bees have the same appeal as any other academic competition - opportunity for recognition of achievement, competition, the possibility of getting to go away somewhere and meet other kids from other school, bringing back 'honor' to ones school or family as well as one's self, to increase their odds of getting a scholarship....

It's much more than rote memory of specific words (although drilling and memorization is how you train) - to make it to the higher levels, you have to have a solid understanding of spelling rules and their exceptions and be able to deconstruct a word enough to be able to make an intelligent guess about how it's spelled.

I think it's cool that kids can enjoy that sort of competition for academic pursuits (there are math competitions out there too) as well as for sports and arts. The kids that get into it do so because they like the competition, so it's great that there are a variety of interests where they can get that.

My 10 year old requested (and ultimately set up) a spelling bee for the 5th graders in her school this past year - she's not that great a speller, and was eliminated in the 2nd round, but she is very good at being persuasive and engineering things that others will enjoy, and her reasons for it were pretty simple - they're fun, and she knew a couple of her friends that aren't the kind that are usually 'popular' would do very well with this. She just wanted to do something that would let them shine.

-- Anonymous, June 28, 2000

You're also assuming that the national spelling bee is what made some of us pro home schooling. For me, the success of home schooled kids in the bee is just an interesting data point. I agree that it's a rote learning task that isn't terribly valuable. There are other things that make me think home schooling is good, like hearing horror stories about public schools from friends.

-- Anonymous, June 28, 2000

Sorry if I misled anyone about my own views. I'm a decent speller, for the same reasons others have noted. Lots of reading, etc. I did well in local spelling bees and never studied, but didn't advance for that reason. So my question wasn't about spelling bees, but was about the national spelling bee, which I think is an entirely different ball of wax.

So my comment about "obsessive amounts of time and energy" wasn't ever because I assumed that home schooled kids spent "obsessive amounts of time and energy" on studying in general. It was that anyone who gets to the national level of the spelling bee does spend obsessive amounts of time and energy studing books of words that might be used in spelling bees. At least, there used to be books you bought for that purpose. Maybe that changed? And maybe there are exceptions, kids who advance to the national level without putting much effort into it, but I find it hard to believe that there are many.

And so, to me it seems that spelling is a lot of rote-learning, or learning that doesn't necessarily lead to other learning, or enhanced pleasure in life. It seems to be learning that beyond a reasonable point, dead-ends. (I could be wrong. That's why I'm asking.)

And so, I wondered why the winning of a national spelling be by home- schooled kids was an attraction. This is a purely academic question with no hidden agendas. If I saw that the winner of the national spelling bee attributed that to ... playing jump rope? I wouldn't go buy a jump rope for my kid, because winning the national spelling bee, while admirable, doesn't inspire me to emulation.

So, by the same token, it also wouldn't inspire me to go, "Wow, home schooling, I should look into that."

So, I'm curious what it is about winning the national spelling bee that makes people want to find out more about anything in general, home schooling in particular.

Not because I'm putting down spelling or home schooling, but because I can think of many more rewarding areas of competition and accomplishment. Of course, that's probably my own misconception.

If I'm not making sense, forgive me. I think I need caffeine.

-- Anonymous, June 28, 2000

By the way --

Reason, your answer about words being puzzles that intrigued you?

Okay, I get that. Thanks. That's exactly the kind of answer I was looking for.

I went back and reread my post, trying to figure out what I said that made people accuse me of "assuming" that good spellers always studied lots of hours, "assuming" that the national spelling bee is what made some people pro home schooling.

I figure that if I ever want to communicate in a forum like this, I need to learn to be particularly precise about my statements, so they are understood, so I don't get caught in side-discussions attempting to clarify misconceptions or back out of statements that I never intended to make.

So I'm wondering how "What is it about the national spelling bee that makes home schooling look appealing?" led to the assumption that I thought the spelling bee made someone pro-home schooling. I was simply responding to comments that people had the success of home- schooled kids in the national spelling bee and that led them to investigate home schooling, and I was a bit surprised. So I asked why. I was trying to recognize the "appeal," and still am not sure how that question was misconstrued.

And I specifically said, "I'm not looking down on either institution. But my feeling about the national spelling bee is that it rewards someone who devotes an obsessive amount of time studying spelling. Rote-learning." Again, I am puzzled by the reaction that I assumed all good spellers must study it obsessively. I was talking about the national spelling bee, nothing else.

Oh well. I guess I must learn to communicate more clearly. I guess.

-- Anonymous, June 28, 2000

Pooks--
Here is my theory on the spelling bee thing:
Although I have been interested in home-schooling for a while, for a lot of the public, I think the kids in the spelling bee may have been the first exposure to "normal" home schoolers. A lot of people still perceive those kids to be religious freaks, or, at the very least, kids of eccentrics that will not be able achieve in traditional ways. When presented with an alternative that may allow their kids to both avoid the pitfalls of traditional schooling and win awards and such, a bunch of people are just now checking it out. I too noticed a surge of interest after the spelling bee, and this is all I can chalk it up to.

Forgive the dangling modifiers.


-- Anonymous, June 28, 2000

Thanks, Brenn. Makes sense to me.

-- Anonymous, June 29, 2000

I wish I could have been homeschooled. I know it could never have happened because my parents aren't very intelligent bookwise and I don't know where I could have learned all of the other skills I've picked up, but I would have LOVED to have been able to go at my own damn pace (i.e. fast) instead of crawling along through each day, while being harassed by my "peers" and feeling scared every day that someone was going to REALLY go after me.

There's some basis to the socialization thing, but it rather seems like what someone said above about conditioning students to be corporate sheep- or more like, get them used to being harassed and abused from an early age so they won't mind it so much when they grow up.

I have a children's book at my house by Zilpha Keatley Snyder, "Libby on Wednesday", about a genius girl who was homeschooled for years until her mother made her go to middle school to be "socialized." It's an interesting take on the whole thing...she gets picked on all the time, but eventually makes a few friends.

An alternative is independent study through a school- Davis has one in which the students meet once a week with a teacher and do the rest on their own (I think). If they'd had that where I'm from, I would have been dying to do it.

-- Anonymous, July 04, 2000

I think we will eventually find that there is zero difference between home and public schooling in the end. Kids are resilient, and they can prosper in a wide variety of environments. Though I value education and think it does in some way shape us as individuals, I think we are taking this whole HS/PS situation too seriously. We will get geniuses from both places. We will get amazingly good doctors and lawyers and engineers from both places. We will also, unfortunately, get psychopathic maniacs from both places. This is the nature of the world.

Parents who choose to home school will always be looked upon as strange by the rest of us. They appear holier-than-thou. No one likes to have their own child rearing practices looked down upon, and therefore both parties (HS and PS) will defend their position to the bitter end.

Personally, I will never ever home school my children because I am SELFISH!!! This is not something I am ashamed of, as you might have guessed. Some parents may say this is awful, but my mom was selfish and raised two extremely intelligent successful kids with stable values and highly developed self worth. Amazing, since we both went to public school, you might say!! I also have home-schooled cousins who have spent time in jail for going on a purse snatching spree across the country. Some parents obviously do home schooling poorly, but that’s a totally different story.

I don’t really care for your opinions or arguments one way or another, though I found them quite amusing to read! No need to respond to this particular entry, ‘cause I’m not coming back to this site if I can help it! Flame wars are not for me. Good luck all with your schooling choices, but above all, I urge you, don’t forget about your own needs and abilities in the process!

-- Anonymous, August 15, 2001