There's a fair amount of opinion about the riot problems, but just out of interest, what do you guys reckon should be done to try to prevent things getting out of hand every time we play abroad ?

-- Anonymous, June 19, 2000

Answers

Don't publicise when the matches are going to played!

-- Anonymous, June 19, 2000

There is no way you can tell which fans are hooligans and which are genuine fans, therfore there is no way of controlling the majority as normal fans would be up in arms if they were transported to and from a match in a secure manner.

-- Anonymous, June 19, 2000

It's not every time we go abroad - the qualifying campaign was trouble free and, if anything, it was English clubs who had the shit kicked out of them in Europe last year. There was no trouble in Eindhiven last week either.

-- Anonymous, June 19, 2000

The troublemakers are not interested in going to places like Poland for a single match. When England play in a major tournament and the fans know there will be Germans, Dutch and the rest there, they go and look for trouble and there is trouble.

Point me to a single tournament in the last decade where there has been no trouble.

-- Anonymous, June 19, 2000

There wasn't a vast amount in either Mexico 86 or in Italia 90 - very minor stuff.

-- Anonymous, June 19, 2000

Organise out of town festival type venues to host the visitors, encourage them with cheap drink and film the lot. It probably wouldn't stop the violence but it would be a helluva lot easier to police & pick-out ring-leaders. Proper thugs organise their offs so they would stay away and the innocents would not be trawled in - easy really.

The problem is football is used as a vehicle for organising fights, the fixture list tells them who & when they will be up against. It is too difficult to break this association, even convicted hooligans can still see their team, despite a countrywide ban - nobody checks, how can they ? I think that the police in this country know what happens and aslong as it is restrained and does not involve true supporters they keep a long leash. I'm not particularly bothered about their fighting amongst themselves, if I or another innocent got caught up then I may change my stance but until then they can tear lumps out of each other for the sake of their of team/Queen/country.

-- Anonymous, June 19, 2000

Punish the Bast@rds properly.

When they are caught, with video and by the police and charged home or abroad strip them of all assets, ban them from attending games. They can use the home detention electronic bands and make sure they are at home. Refuse all state payments. If they are unemployed. Give them non exchangeable food and clothing vouchers. Give the assets to anyone injured as compensation.

Do this consistently for a couple of tourneys at it will die out.

Why should they stop? They are having fun, doing what they want and receive a slap on the wrist. I do not give a monkey about their rights, they do not deserve any for carrying on the way they do.

-- Anonymous, June 19, 2000

Gus,
So you'd just lump everybody who just happened to be in the vicinity, in with the sh*theeds whose sole purpose for being there is to kick the sh*t out of somebody ?

I think you might feel a bit hard done by if you just happened to be one of the unlucky ones.

-- Anonymous, June 19, 2000

A friend has wickedly suggested organising the fighting properly - arrange for an empty stadium to be made available, cheap booze on sale, where all the nutters can make for, and fight it out until either they're content, or they're all in hospital.

As we all instinctively know, there isn't a 'silver bullet' solution to this problem. A comprehensive approach is required with a range of short and longer term measures to gruadually reduce and hopefully eliminate the problem. However, as I've been banging on about on the other thread, there needs to be general acceptance in this country that this is an extremely serious societal problem, that this country is at the forefront of, that just has to be vigorosly tackled. We have the biggest problem, even if we're not the only country to have it.

This is not purely a problem of a few hard-line thugs, but a much wider problem that generally embraces the behaviour of the English when travelling abroad. Both need to be tackled, on the one hand through legsislation, policing and the Courts, but on the other hand through education in its widest form.

In the short term - even if it doesn't happen during this Euro2000 competition - I believe England will be excluded from competing until the situation can be addressed and improved upon. Other countries are fed up with tolerating our hooligans, and unlike in the foreign holiday locations who need the income provided by our 'lager-louts', many countries will eventually say "we've had enough, and we're not putting up with it any longer". Who can blame them?

-- Anonymous, June 19, 2000

No Pit, I said that those that were convicted with evidence. The sweeps they have been doing have resulted in only a few convictions.

We can catch and Identify those at home and start there. Like those on that startling and oh so true to life undercover reporter found at Chewsee.

-- Anonymous, June 19, 2000

I dont think there is a quick fix answer to the problem at the moment as the problem needs to be addressed in a calm and effective way. What I do believe is that UEFA in its wisdom and of doing absolute the opposite of common sense, have declared open season on english fans. Picture this if you will:- Germany hooligans decide that germany have no chance of qualifying by footballing means. Solution, start fights with the English, they will have to respond as they are getting the shit kicked out of them. Result, England are chucked out of euro 2000 and germany go through (providing theyve got more points than romania). I for one would not like to be a geniune English fan in belgium at the moment, UEFA has just about painted a bullseye target on anyone in a england shirt!!!! AM:-( p.s When will the TV reports etc, give out how many other nationalities have been arrested, it would put the arrest figures into context

-- Anonymous, June 19, 2000

I wouldn't mind about Team England being excluded from internationals (although sponsors would) for a time. However, I'm worried about English clubs being excluded from Europe. That'll put paid to any big transfers from Italy.

-- Anonymous, June 19, 2000

I'm sticking my neck out here and expect to be well ad truly crucified but here goes

First of all I think that all hooligans are scum and those involved in trouble should be made to attend police stations on match days and therefore be unable to cause trouble at football matches.
But I do believe a few questions need answering. First of all why was there no trouble in Holland? Why was there no trouble after losing? Why were the English put anywhere near the Turkish after recent events.

Also it's a well known fact that the Belgian police are very antiEnglish (sweeping I know) but remember Heysel? I honestly think the Belgian police do and think that they're approach will stop it. But how many English fans arrested and deported were done so because yhey didn't have tickets? I would guess at least 25%. In the past English people have been deported from Belgium on match days because they're English. Sometimes not even going to watch a football match. I'm sorry, I hate hooliganism but I believe that in this case the police appear to have gone over the top, using water canons at any given moment and basically hitting out against the English

Cue barage of abuse.......

-- Anonymous, June 19, 2000

Hands up anybody who would actually go out of their way to shop any scum they saw 'misbehaving'. Not many, I'd bet. I don't think I'd have the guts on my own, I'd be too busy trying to get the hell away so I didn't end roped in with the rest of them.

It's starting to look like the only sure way is to keep well away from international games on foreign soil, and UEFA look as if they're going to do us that favour whether we like it or not, unless, of course, it really is a fiendish jarman plot to get the krites back in EURO 2000, and the next world cup in jarmany.

-- Anonymous, June 19, 2000

The answer is.......42 ;))

-- Anonymous, June 19, 2000

Chelsea have said that any of their fans involved in violence at Euro 2000.....maybe all clubs should do that?

Then again it could still lead to innocent people being punished unfairly...

-- Anonymous, June 19, 2000

Although there was plenty enough in the way of holigans involved (as apparent in the scenes in the town square) there are also many reports of the Belgian police being very heavy handed, and picking up fans en masse, wether or not they were causing bother.

It may be difficult to identify potential trouble makers, but does that really justify the catch-all approach, especially when basic legal rights are blatently abused (e.g holding without charge and incommunicado)?

-- Anonymous, June 19, 2000

Its a little bit to do with our own expectations Mr Blair claims standards in education have gone up. Targets to reduce exclusions have been met and fewer kids are put out. IMHO after returning to the classroom in the UK, standards of behaviour are down. Attiudes amongst a growing proportion of youngsters stink and they need a right good kick up the arse. But their rights mean they are untouchable and they bloody know it.

-- Anonymous, June 19, 2000

Come on Gav out with the rest of it As the actress said.......

Chelsea have said that any of their fans etc ..................

What will be forced to watch them every week ?????

-- Anonymous, June 19, 2000

Ooops.....cheers Gus!! another case of premature articulation methinks *blush*

Chelsea have said that any of their fans involved in the violence will be banned for life....

-- Anonymous, June 20, 2000

A bit like those 'Headhunters' who still had their season tickets despite prosecution for repeated violent offences outside football grounds? Ken Bates: Pillar of the Community! :-)

-- Anonymous, June 20, 2000

How would a club stand legally here? could they deny someone entry to the ground on the basis of convictions that happened away from the ground?

-- Anonymous, June 20, 2000

Surely that's "Pillock of the community"

-- Anonymous, June 20, 2000

I would imagine the club could use the "management have the right to refuse admission" clause. Having said that I know of somebody arrested in Dublin for the ripping up seats carry on; he got his season ticket confiscated but just uses somebody elses and gets to the games.

-- Anonymous, June 20, 2000

It's madness isn't it? A violent offence has to be inside a ground to be football-related which is why so few people appear on the known- offenders list as all-seaters with plenty of Old Bill and Stewards are hard to get into trouble in. My old local used to make trips to France and half the lads had to get papers stamped by parole officers to travel. You'd hope that come an International Tournament anyone with a record for violent/public order offences is refused the right to travel to the country in question. Before anyone starts bleating about inncocent holiday makers being discriminated against, don't book a holiday to Portugal in 4 years' time if you have a record, ok? Is that sufficient notice?

The other point that keeps being raised is that if you have to be charged to appear on the list, then Belgium are shirking their responsibility by deporting people without charging them as they cannot be excluded from attending future tournaments.

-- Anonymous, June 20, 2000

Good posting Softie - I hadn`t realised that the offence has to be inside the grounds to be football related. Explains a lot! And yes, the Belgians are shirking their responsibilities.(:o|

-- Anonymous, June 20, 2000

The Belgians are too busy playing at being Smoggy Paedophiles.....

I didn't bring a coat today.....I'll just leave by the window shall I? ;))

-- Anonymous, June 20, 2000