Are Americans free or are they slaves of the Government? Why do you get a license (permit) from the Government?greenspun.com : LUSENET : TB2K spinoff uncensored : One Thread |
ARE YOU TRULY FREE... when over half of your hard earned money is stolen, directly and indirectly, by legalized fraud called income taxes to support unconscionable spending habits of career politicians... and rulers around the world? And,
ARE YOU TRULY FREE...when government agents falsely accuse people of crimes shoot and kill a nursing mother and child (Weaver), use banned gas to burn out over 80 people (Waco Holocaust), Gordon Call, etc. And,
ARE YOU TRULY FREE...when you are deprived of your currency which you worked hard for, paid taxes on? The $1,000 and $500 bills were slyly taken out of circulation. When anyone DOES NOT want to play the game of cashless, checkless society he is accused of breaking the law. Plastic strips are now inserted in the new currency. Bankers/government claim anyone with a large amount of cash is a criminal. This violates many religious beliefs such as Rev.,13:16-18. The conspirators real purpose is to work for the private bankers, putting us in a cashless, checkless society. And,
WHEN...in our LAND OF THE FREE you can no longer drive on freeways or public street without buying a drivers license and car registration from bureaucrats...giving them LEGAL TITLE of OWNERSHIP to your car in exchange for a certificate of title that shows you gave your true ownership AWAY? And,
WHEN...BUREAUCRATS MAKE YOU PAY legal ransom to a private insurance-company so you can drive your car? And,
WHEN...in our LAND OF THE FREE you must send your children to a licensed school or bureaucrats can/will legally kidnap your children, confiscate your property and put you in jail? And,
When...you must read non-mainstream publications in order to learn THE TRUTH, because the national news media tells only what the political establishment allows its public to see or hear as news..? And,
WHEN...OUR LAND OF THE FREE has more political-prisoners than other nations; more slave-labor-camp-prisons (UNICOR) are being built every year? And,
WHEN...bureaucrats claim a crime needs no victim by claiming a crime is an offense against an abstract (legal fiction) called the state? And,
WHEN...business-income taxes are piled on top of each other...hidden in the prices of every American product, GROSSLY INFLATING costs, forcing industries to leave our country...taking millions of our best jobs with them? And,
WHEN... in our LAND OF THE FREE bureaucrats can know most of your financial transactions and legally pry into your bank records without your knowledge or consent? (violating a sacred trust, your privacy, and 4th amendment right). And,
WHEN ...you believe the BIG-LIE that your RIGHTS come from public servants instead of from ALMIGHTY GOD, Creator of all nature? And,
WHEN you pay your debts with dollar bills which are notices of debt you owe to the PRIVATELY OWNED Federal Reserve Banks (a private corporation) which pay no income taxes...and who create money out of thin air? And,
WHEN...in our LAND OF THE FREE public servants have created a spider web of over TWO MILLION laws and rules entangling every part of your life with entrapment schemes, (Road Blocks)-etc., while supreme court judges seldom agree on the meaning of any of them? And,
WHEN...if you don't pay your taxes (rent) the real owner of your property shows up, takes it from you, violating Allodial Land Rights ... and may/will shoot you, or put you in jail. And,
WHEN...in our LAND OF THE FREE its okay to legally murder unborn babies, cleverly calling aborticide abortion And,
WHEN... public-servant judges illegally guide votes of Citizen Jurors by LYING, telling them they must vote to enforce the alleged laws of the case (even if it violates Rights secured by the constitution)? And,
WHEN....the word person is legally defined as a corporation and judges and government lawyers Coerce Juries into jailing fellow Americans for disobeying laws made for private bankers and private corporations to CONTROL our once FREE PEOPLE? And,
WHEN...your church must get a 501-C3 license (tax exempt) so its members can write off gifts-legally worship the state god, not ALMIGHTY GOD, Creator of all nature? And,
WHEN...career-politicians, tax collectors, police and courts (judges) are more of a threat to life, liberty and property than a thief in the night? (Been in court lately?) And,
WHEN you SADLY LEARN..More crimes occur in American court rooms in one day than in the streets in a whole year?
WHEN...in our LAND OF THE FREE your children are a ward of the state because you used a marriage license? (Your children are not your children because of that license!) And,
WHEN...you are jailed for exercising your God-given Constitutionally secured Rights if you dont grease the palms (fines=mulct) of bureaucrats? And,
WHEN...in our LAND OF THE FREE your children are a ward of the state because you used a marriage license? (Your children Not your children because of that license!) And,
WHEN...in our LAND OF THE FREE YOU CAN NO LONGER PRACTICE Free Enterprise or work without the SS-ID number, Mark of the Beast, and you are forced to buy a permit or license from bureaucrats or go to jail? And,
WHEN...you are jailed for exercising your God-given Constitutionally Secured Rights if you don't grease the palms (fines=mulot) of bureaucrats? And,
WHEN everything you and your children will ever own is mortgaged to foreign bankers who own the private Federal Reserve Banks, your loan could be due and collectible on demand...BECAUSE THE CONGRESS REFUSES to OBEY the CONSTITUTION providing our nation with a debt-free, Honest money system! And,
WHEN...you could be dying from a disease (cancer) that is curable in other countries (suppressed in AmeriKa since the early 30's) with certain medicines, nutrients, and vitamins which, if used to save your life, is a crime in our LAND OF THE FREE stripping us of our 1st and 9th amendment Rights, FREEDOM of CHOICE? And,
WHEN... if you say something publicly that is not Politically Correct, the news-media can publicly condemn you without a trial, by implying you are a racist, cultist, neo-nazi, anti-Semitic, hate monger, bigot, radical, armed and dangerous, extreme-right-winger, tax-protester, un-American...etc.? And,
WHEN...the Federal Government pretends to wage a War On Drugs (actually promoting drugs) as an excuse to make laws that deprive us of our God-given RIGHTS to Life, Liberty, and Property ...Freedom to Choose and to be Left Alone? And,
WHEN...CRIME PAYS BIG... for Big Brother Government, lying politicians, judges, government lawyers, police...because every new law causes many more victimless crimes as an excuse for higher and higher taxes, supposedly used to punish the violators (victims) of newly invented crimes, which God never thought of, against a legal fiction, the State? And,
WHEN...in our LAND OF THE FREE the flag displayed in court rooms and other public buildings has a gold fringe border, which is NOT the American flag, indicating that we are under Martial Law unannounced? And,
WHEN..... you must ask and pay bureaucrats for legal permission to get married, even though marriage is a sacrament directly from our loving father, ALMIGHTY GOD? And,
WHEN...Republican and Democratic Presidents give your taxes to foreign countries, food that should be given to our needy is given to foreign nations, destroying our own people...our self-defense arms are confiscated...creating wars and riots; the United States Military is under the United Nations command...YOUR JOB exported overseas...our LAND OF THE FREE PLACED UNDER THE DICTATORIAL RULE of NON-ELECTED FOREIGNERS called the NEW WORLD ORDER?! Creating wars and riots;
IF THIS IS FREEDOM Then WHAT is SLAVERY???
If You Think You're FREE, What can you do without:
A. getting a permit; B. getting a license; C. paying a tax; D. your Social Surveillance-lD # (should not be used for identification)
Learn how to be free.
-- James Bond (007@aol.com), June 18, 2000
BULL SHIT
-- Mystery Guest (Mystery-Guest@sign-in-please.com), June 18, 2000.
James:The government is us. We do these things because we have agreed amongst ourselves to do them. Then I've learned not to discuss things with people who are ignorant enough to post such trash.
-- DB (Debunker@nomore.xx), June 18, 2000.
Mr Bond,Yes!! I am truly free.... free of the moronic paranoia that you are spouting.... I am free because I choose to OBEY the laws of my community, a community that I HELP build by participating at every level, even down to the school board. When voter turnout is approaching 50% for Presidential elections, is it any wonder one will find corruption?? THAT is your fault, Mr Bond, for failing to do your duty. You have two choices, participate in the system to change it or have some cheese with your whine, it is that simple....
-- Rob (celtic64@inficad.com), June 18, 2000.
WHEN...in our LAND OF THE FREE the flag displayed in court rooms and other public buildings has a gold fringe border, which is NOT the American flag, indicating that we are under Martial Law unannounced?What does that mean? A flag with gold fringe border means we are under martial law?
-- Cherri (sams@brigadoon.com), June 18, 2000.
Lets look at a couple of your silly points, hust for shits and giggles....>>>>WHEN...BUREAUCRATS MAKE YOU PAY legal ransom to a private insurance-company so you can drive your car? And,<<<<<<
How do you plan on fixing my car after you run a stop sign and total it???? Do you have the means to pay my severly injuried childs medical bill????? We the people demanded this protection, from fools just such as yourself!
>>>>>>WHEN...in our LAND OF THE FREE you must send your children to a licensed school or bureaucrats can/will legally kidnap your children, confiscate your property and put you in jail? And,<<<<<<<
Wrong again, My Aunt is homeschooling my cousins and has for the past 4 years. Here in Arizona, we now have the choice to send our children to public schools or to private/charter schools, it is up to the parents.
>>>>>>>When...you must read non-mainstream publications in order to learn THE TRUTH, because the national news media tells only what the political establishment allows its public to see or hear as news..? And,<<<<<<<<<
Ahhh, now I understand, you shouldn't get your world news from the National Enquirer, that explains your paranoia!!!!!
-- Rob (celtic64@inficad.com), June 18, 2000.
So what are you DOING about it? Nothing? That's what I thought. You will convert no on here. Go back To SLEZ from where you crawled out- much sympathy there from complain about everything, do nothing folks.
-- FutureShock (gray@matter.think), June 18, 2000.
Mr. Bond isn't completely correct. Perhaps only 90 percent of the things he points to are realities. However, those of you who think he is completely wrong are going to learn the hard way that he is a lot closer to being right then he is to being wrong.I feel sorry for those who have been brainwashed by the "public education" system and had never heard the truth about our current political system. I don't feel sorry for those who have heard and refused to listen; they deserve the chains they are wearing and those they will be wearing soon, which will be much heavier. Then they will cry "but I didn't know!". That will do them no good.
-- Sergeant Friday (just.The@facts.Maam), June 18, 2000.
Yeah! Hear hear! Lead us to freedom, Sarge. Uh, that means you go first, OK?
-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), June 18, 2000.
No, Flint, I'm not interested in trying to lead the unwilling anywhere. In my opinion, the majority of people in this country deserve their slavery because they are too lazy or too stupid to notice that they are slaves. They'll notice it sometime in the relatively near future, but by then it will be far too late for them to do anything about it; the "Million Mom March" is working feverishly to ensure that. My plan is to be gone before that happens, and I'm making good progress on it. I'll watch the decline into totalitarianism from a safe haven elsewhere.
-- Sergeant Friday (just.the@facts.maam), June 18, 2000.
Cherri,The thing about the "gold fringe" is one of the more humorous -- and ridiculous -- of the arguments used by tax protestors and anti-guv types.
These people claim that the gold fringe around the flag somehow converts it to an "admiralty" flag or "flag or war," and that this somehow (magically) (mysteriously) denies the court jurisdiction over their case.
(No, I'm not making this up. They actually believe that a gold fringe around a flag has some legal effect on the court system.)
Needless to say, this argument has been smashed, smished and rejected by any legal court that has ever been asked to consider it.
But one good thing came of this post: in addition to Dan Evan's Tax Protestor FAQ and the other links that I've posted here, I found another good one.
The anti-guv nuts can't claim that this is IRS propaganda, either; these people HATE the IRS, think the government is a tyranny, etc., etc.
But they also have enough sense to recognize arguments that are groundless and baseless, and urge their followers not to waste time on them. See: Destroyed Arguments from the Dixieland Law Journal.
-- Stephen (smpoole7@bellsouth.net), June 18, 2000.
A gold fringe around the American flag is tacky, tacky, tacky.
-- (nemesis@awol.com), June 18, 2000.
Sarge Friday, let me explain something to you most carefully.There are plenty of us who are conservatives, who think the government is in bad shape, that bad things are happening, that the IRS needs to be reined in and that the tax system in general needs an overhaul, that public education has become a worthless system for indoctrinating children with political correctness (and it's not even doing THAT well), that personal liberties are eroding, that gun rights are being stolen by liberals, etc., etc., etc., etc.
But we also have the sense to recognize moronic, baseless and pointless arguments.
That's PRECISELY why I provided the link to Dixieland Law Journal. Read what the boy says. Don't accuse HIM of being a "secret gubbmint shill," because he's not.
As a Christian, I am DEEPLY concerned about this nation's moral state. But I DID NOT believe that Y2K was going to be God's judgement on this country. I also didn't believe that "Klinton" was going to establish marshall law, etc., etc., etc.
Therefore, I said so ... and my reward was to be branded a "liberal" by morons who figured, either I toed the line AS DRAWN BY THEM, or I couldn't possibly be a conservative.
(To be fair, I got more of that in CSY2K than I did here -- primarily from a guy named D. Scott Secor -- but the fact stands.)
Likewise: people who use moronic arguments to advance their conservative agenda aren't doing *ME* any favors, because they perpetuate the stereotype that we're ignorant country bumpkins who can't follow the most basic and elementary legal logic.
These arguments are SPECIOUS. They have NO basis in fact. Every court in the nation has repeatedly thrown them out and, of late, will even sanction (in plain English: assess a fine) anyone who tries to use these arguments.
It's not because the courts are corrupt. It's not because they don't understand these arguments.
It's because THE ARGUMENTS THEMSELVES ARE MORONIC. They're BASELESS. They're USELESS. They're promulgated by people who have absolutely no understanding of our legal system, but (here's the danger!) THINK they do. They're playing shade-tree lawyer, nitpicking terms that are actually well-defined in case law and looking for loopholes that don't exist.
And they're an EMBARASSMENT to intelligent conservatives, like myself, who want to try to fix what's wrong with this nation in a manner that actually has some small chance of succeeding.
-- Stephen (smpoole7@bellsouth.net), June 18, 2000.
>> These people claim that the gold fringe around the flag somehow converts it to an "admiralty" flag or "flag or war," and that this somehow (magically) (mysteriously) denies the court jurisdiction over their case. <<I think you pegged it exactly when you said magically. This sort of "idea" is magical thinking in its purest form, where the magical object (the flag) by changing its shape exerts a different power over the world.
-- Brian McLaughlin (brianm@ims.com), June 18, 2000.
Mr. Poole: I agree with you and with the "Dixie land Law Journal" article that many people, possibly including the one who started this thread, use arguments against the validity of the government and/or taxation that are either absurd on their face or have been repeatedly rejected by the courts. I do not recommend that anyone follow these procedures.Where I disagree with you is that I do not believe that there is any longer a possibility of reforming the government substantially in a peaceful manner. I expect the situation to worsen at a rather rapid pace until it becomes intolerable to the citizens at large, and then a violent revolution to occur.
I'm sure someone will now accuse me of favoring such a revolution, or of fomenting it. I am doing neither. I am only stating my opinion of what will occur. If there were a peaceful means to reform the government that I thought had any chance of success, I would gladly support it. I do not believe there is such a means, as the government will not permit itself to be reformed without violence.
-- Sergeant Friday (just.the@facts.maam), June 18, 2000.
Sergeant Friday:But simple observation shows that the government has been experiencing a constant, steady, peaceful process of "reform" since its inception. It moves in the direction favored by the majority. Some like yourself fall into the ultra-conservative fringe who feel the government should NOT be doing nearly everything it does. Others are equally adamant at the opposite extreme, with convictions just as strong as yours that government (and NOT the individual) is the proper vehicle for directing our lives.
I doubt those at either extreme are all as stupid as the tax protesters, but clearly their visions of utopia conflict in nearly every aspect. Nearly every single aware citizen would agree with Stephen Poole that a large percentage of the government's current programs are misdirected, improperly funded, and/or poorly administered. But name any *individual* program, and the majority will agree that it's being handled about right.
Change happens slowly, whereas what you seem to want is sudden, drastic change in a direction popular only with a very small minority. The revolution you foresee can only happen if you get your wish, since like it or not, you are IN a small minority. Remember to be careful what you wish for.
-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), June 18, 2000.
Flint: Most people are, if not completely satisfied with the current government, are at least indifferent to the fact that their freedoms are being stripped away gradually. That's the reason why, if I had the chance to overturn the current corrupt government at significant risk to myself, I would not do it. The people of this country don't deserve it.
-- Sergeant Friday (just.the@facts.maam), June 18, 2000.
Sergeant Friday:In that case, enlighten me. What freedoms are being stripped away from me, that I'm too content to notice?
-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), June 18, 2000.
Flint:1. The fourth amendment right to be secure in our homes, which has been taken away under the "drug exception", which is nowhere in the Constitution.
2. The Second Amendment right to "keep and bear arms", which has been repeatedly infringed by all levels of government, despite a specific prohibition against such infringement.
3. The ninth amendment right to decide what to ingest, inhale, or otherwise put in your own body.
And many others too numerous to mention.
-- Sergeant Friday (just.the@facts.maam), June 18, 2000.
Sergeant Friday:[1. The fourth amendment right to be secure in our homes, which has been taken away under the "drug exception", which is nowhere in the Constitution.]
The War on Drugs has been an expensive failure, but backing off on the war doesn't require a revolution, only a change in public attitudes. As Prohibition demonstrated, people always want to restrict what other people do but there are limits (the drug war may exceed these limits, but the limit on committing murder may not). And there are models elsewhere of how things might be different. I expect to see incremental reclassification of certain drugs, which will slowly correct some of the excesses the current approach encourages. I think even you would admit there are some behaviors we should restrict peoples' freedom to engage in, since such engagement restricts the freedom of the victims. Finding the best tradeoff is a trial and error process.
[2. The Second Amendment right to "keep and bear arms", which has been repeatedly infringed by all levels of government, despite a specific prohibition against such infringement.]
Yet I am permitted to keep and bear arms, and I do. Granted, I'm not permitted to carry a machine gun around with me. Perhaps our key disagreement involves regulation. While I certainly agree that regulation can be excessive or prohibitive, I don't agree that the "best" alternative is absolutely no regulation of any kind. Regulation is a matter of constant tuning, to fit a constantly changing environment, both technological and social.
As Oliver Wendell Holmes wrote, your freedom to swing your arm ends where the next man's nose begins. As technology lengthens our arms and brings the next man's nose closer, it's a mistake to refuse to recognize that ipso facto our freedoms must undergo constant re- examination.
-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), June 18, 2000.
The herd will not stir until the grass grows thin.
-- Will (righthere@home.now), June 18, 2000.
Flint: the question is not whether the war on drugs is a failure. Almost everyone who is even remotely sensible agrees on that. The question is under what authority the government has prosecuted it? I say they have absolutely no authority to do so under the Constitution. If I'm wrong, please point out where they are given this authority.The same applies to your comments about your being "permitted" to keep and bear arms. According to the Second Amendment, no one has any authority to "infringe" your right to do so. Therefore, constitutionally speaking, you need no permission to keep and bear arms. The fact that the government does infringe (limit, restrict, encroach upon) this right cannot be denied by anyone with any claim to rationality. They are doing so illegally, and can get away with it simply because they have the power to do so.
The Miami raid on a private home by machine-gun carrying government agents without a warrant is just another example of their increasing disregard for any rules that they don't feel like following.
The "million mom march" organizers and their backers will not be content until they have disarmed the American populace. Disarmament of the populace is a necessary precondition to tyranny, as every dictator has known for centuries.
I think you and most other Americans are going to learn the hard way what open dictatorship is like. I don't think you'll have too long to wait.
-- Sergeant Friday (just.the@facts.maam), June 18, 2000.
Sarge:I think you and most other Americans are going to learn the hard way what open dictatorship is like. I don't think you'll have too long to wait.
It is interesting that only you and the folks on the "lunatic fringe" sites know these things. The vast majority of, well informed, citizens don't. From another fighter at the front [TV memories]; Very interesting
So it goes.
Best wishes,,,,,
-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), June 18, 2000.
Sergeant Friday:I'll try to respond, but your position seems both thoughtless and intractible. Not a good combination.
[Flint: the question is not whether the war on drugs is a failure. Almost everyone who is even remotely sensible agrees on that. The question is under what authority the government has prosecuted it? I say they have absolutely no authority to do so under the Constitution. If I'm wrong, please point out where they are given this authority.]
What manner of "authority" would satisfy you? Surely you don't expect an Article of the Constitution to explicitly specify each and every aspect of law that might ever arise? Isn't it sufficient to say that Congress shall have the power to pass laws to promote and preserve the public order, subject to specified limitations? The Constitution doesn't *need* to say that Congress shall outlaw murder, theft, or fraud. It's up to the people to decide, in their often questionable wisdom, which behaviors are intolerably disruptive of the public order, and (as adjudicated by the courts) which procedures are best adopted and applied to reduce and punish such behaviors. This is all provided for, so I don't know what you're looking for here. [The same applies to your comments about your being "permitted" to keep and bear arms. According to the Second Amendment, no one has any authority to "infringe" your right to do so. Therefore, constitutionally speaking, you need no permission to keep and bear arms. The fact that the government does infringe (limit, restrict, encroach upon) this right cannot be denied by anyone with any claim to rationality. They are doing so illegally, and can get away with it simply because they have the power to do so.]
Apparently you didn't read a word I wrote (which doesn't surprise me, somehow). Do you claim, as a matter of principle, that the 2nd Amendment protects the "right" of every drunk and felon to carry a suitcase nuke? If so, I abandon you to your fantasies. If not, you are implying that some regulation is reasonable. Then the question becomes, what *level* of regulation exceeds our notion of "infringement"? And this is a political question.
[The Miami raid on a private home by machine-gun carrying government agents without a warrant is just another example of their increasing disregard for any rules that they don't feel like following.]
I agree. But I don't see this disregard as "increasing". Governments of all stripe are historically amoral, and require some means of correction. For government, the end always justifies the means. This is what power does to people. No system can *change* human nature, but the best systems can change the humans exercising it, and make it more difficult to do such things, or easier to exact retribution against those who do them. There has never been any "golden age" anywhere where government behaved itself. Today's instant publicity provides a real restriction and has *reduced* such violations, whether you accept this or not.
[The "million mom march" organizers and their backers will not be content until they have disarmed the American populace. Disarmament of the populace is a necessary precondition to tyranny, as every dictator has known for centuries.]
Agreed again. We have witnessed the results of mass manipulation through systematic misinformation. I regard this as a very dangerous trend. But I seriously doubt the manipulators view longterm tyranny or dictatorship as their goal. They don't have anywhere *near* that kind of foresight. They can't see past the next election, so they engineer the photo-ops they calculate will be winners. They know most people operate by wishfully thinking that "If only every gun went away, we'd all be safer", so they play to the simpleminded.
So yes, they're dishonest and they're cynical and they're guided by what *works*, rather than by what's right. To combat them, sad to say you need something just as cynical, that works better. Fanaticism has a terrible track record
[I think you and most other Americans are going to learn the hard way what open dictatorship is like. I don't think you'll have too long to wait.]
I'd bet against you on this, except that (1) I won't live long enough to collect; and (2) We have no clear (or even CLOSE) definition of terms. My idea of responsible government (as government goes) seems your idea of dictatorship.
-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), June 18, 2000.
Flint:I am not a supporter of the anti-gun lobby. But:
"If only every gun went away, we'd all be safer", so they play to the simpleminded.
I see no advantage in calling the other side "simpleminded". I respect their beliefs and try to change their attitude when the subject is important. Not all of the things that they have suggested are important to me.
Best wishes,,,,
-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), June 18, 2000.
Flint: Yes, I read what you wrote. You didn't answer any of the questions I asked. Therefore, I'm not going to bother "debating" with you any more. Have a nice "reasonable government".
-- Sergeant Friday (just.the@facts.maam), June 18, 2000.
Sarge:I have been here for years. I notice that people retreat when they know that they are without a reasoned rebuttal. Guess that is the case here.
Best wishes,,,
Z
-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), June 18, 2000.
Mr. Z.: yes, it's unfortunate that Flint is unable to answer the points I have raised and has instead resorted to irrelevant commentary. But that's nothing new for him. In any event, I have work to do and can't afford to spend any more time debating obvious points.
-- Sergeant Friday (just.the@facts.maam), June 18, 2000.
Z:You are right; I stand corrected. What I was thinking was "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, obvious and wrong." When serious structural barriers stand between you and your goal (not even considering the goal itself here), then taking political action that "pretends" that inconvenient barrier isn't there always falls prey to the Law of Unintended Consequences.
Of course, the goals themselves are important. It's one thing to say "if only there were no hammers, they'd stop building houses and consuming arable land." But solving problems of food shortages isn't quite that simple, nor are hammers the underlying cause of the perceived problem. As the aforementioned drug war illustrates, a straighforward assault on symptoms exacerbates the problem. However, it *does* make for catchy slogans -- on both sides (as Friday shows).
-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), June 18, 2000.
Sergeant Friday:Maybe you're a military type after all. One excellent tactic is, when being soundly drubbed, declare "victory" and beat a hasty retreat.
-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), June 18, 2000.
Flint:You are right; I stand corrected.
I understood this part. The rest; I am not so sure. It seems to me that the point is to win the war and not the battle. That is what I am doing. I worked to stop the concealed carry law here. Our county voted it down as did the state. As I have said here before, most of the supporters were people who I wouldn't trust with a pointy stick [see posters on EZboard for a point of reference]. I don't support registration of guns or other such plans; for my state. It may be important in CA or NJ, but it would be an unwarrented intrusion of government here. Hell, in Montana [where I used to live] these folks are trying to pass laws which will allow folks to carry concealed weapons into churches and schools. Why would you want to carry concealed into a church? I don't think that I agree with all that you said, but, I am not all that sure of what you said.
Best wi
-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), June 18, 2000.
Z:OK, to begin. If I were King, I'd encourage everyone to own a gun, and make training with that gun a mandatory part of public education. I don't see any reason why concealed carry in church or school is any different than anywhere else (and given some of the school shootings, perhaps nearly as reasonable as in post offices [grin]).
I just don't see any compelling evidence that banning guns will reduce shootings (it hasn't elsewhere), because such bans only reclassify gun owners. Nor does it appear that eliminating guns reduces violence or increases safety. But the "control" doesn't exist for any such experiment. There is (IMO) some force to the notion that we'd be better off if we could reduce the scope for damage possessed by irresponsible people. My sense is we'd have more success targeting the irresponsibility rather than its expression.
Even assuming (for some reason) that other uses of guns such as collecting, competition, or hunting, taken together, aren't worth preserving, we face a practical impossibility of eliminating guns. So I was referring to the demagaugic practice of ignoring inconvenient impossibilities when passing regulations. When we do so, the result is nearly always the opposite of the intent.
-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), June 18, 2000.
Flint:I just don't see any compelling evidence that banning guns will reduce shootings (it hasn't elsewhere), because such bans only reclassify gun owners.
I can agree with that. I just don't know why anyone would need to carry a concealed weapon to church. OK, there was one church shooting in Texas. Prepare for that; like folks preparing for Y2k. Neither make too much sense.
Concealed here. You can carry here now. It just has to be in a holster where everyone can see it. Why conceal? You can always judge the intent of legislation by who supports it. You do this at a local level. I know the folks supporting it. As I said, they are people that I wouldn't trust with a pointy stick. That is why the initiative went down to resounding defeat. Now a law banning handgun ownership would loose. This isn't a monolithic discussion.
Best Wis
-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), June 18, 2000.
Flint:Now a law banning handgun ownership would loose.
Let me point out that such laws would also lose. :^)
We are still the product of the wild west (this isn't the southeast) and many of our laws still reflect that fact. We haven't been easternafied like you folks.
Best wishes,,,,
-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), June 18, 2000.
Friday,Where I disagree with you is that I do not believe that there is any longer a possibility of reforming the government substantially in a peaceful manner ...
You're not the only one who believes that; in my darker moments, I've wondered myself. But the alternative is too horrible to consider. Therefore, I work for peaceful change.
I *do* believe that the majority of the American people are basically honest, hardworking folk who would vote the right way if they were informed -- truly informed -- about these issues.
(Digression/illustration: most of the members of the Cuban-American community down in Florida don't even know that Kendall Coffey, Elian's attorney, is an old Democratic party hack and a long-time friend of Janet Reno's. No less a beagle than Alan Dershowitz has come right out and all but accused Coffey of throwing that case.)
(But the CA community in Miama isn't up in arms because most of them don't even know this. When the word finally gets out on the large scale, there's gonna be madness and chaos down there.)
Likewise on the national level: right now the economy is booming, I'm working my butt off and I gotta go pick up Jimmy from soccer practice and besides, we have a new color TV and we watch cable every night and don't really know what's going on ...
But these aren't unsolveable problems. That's where we differ. I believe that the American people will figure this out. The Clinton administration has had one goal toward these scandals: to stall and play for time until he gets out of office. Once he does, and once the truth starts coming out, you will see a firestorm, trust me.
-- Stephen (smpoole7@bellsouth.net), June 18, 2000.
Poole:You mean once Al Gore becomes President. I don't think so. The stuff coming out about Bush [probably untrue] in the press in the last few days [I hope you read papers in the EU countries] will only increase. That, and his connection with Robertson will be a big problem. I don't see anyway out of the box for him. Unfortunate, but, at the moment, I see him as a clone of Dan Quayle. Maybe he can change my opinion. We will see.
Best wishes,,,
-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), June 18, 2000.
Z:I agree with you about the concealment. Concealing a gun is a pain. They aren't particularly hideable, nor particularly comfortable when hidden. Nor do I think the current trend towards small and light (now that we have a silly 10-round limit) makes for affordable guns of good quality.
In most states, open carry is simply not an option. In a dozen states, *any* carry is not an option. In some states, simply driving through with a gun in the trunk requires a licence even if you don't stop and don't live there. Sergeant Friday is correct that the definition of "infringement" is skating on some very warm ice.
-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), June 18, 2000.
Glad to see the discussion becoming more thoughtful. I hope Mr. Poole is correct, although I don't think he is. As for Flint's observation regarding infringement, just for reference, here's the relevant definition of "infringe", from the OED:5. intr. To break in or encroach on or upon.
I think the ice they are skating on must be ice 9, as it is clearly well above the normal freezing point of water.
-- Sergeant Friday (just.the@facts.maam), June 18, 2000.
Friday,(If I didn't know better, I'd say you were a follower of Mr. Thomas Chittum. You sound a lot like him, only without the racism[g].)
Let me amplify (something that I do exceedingly well).
My frustration wasn't directed at you, per se; it was at those conservatives with room-temperature IQs who don't bother to take the time to learn how our system of government works.
I disagree with plenty of court decisions. If I'm jogging through the park and you try to mug me, and my dog comes to my rescue, the courts seem to feel that *I* should be liable for the mugger's injuries unless he directly provoked the dog!
("OK, Rover, one bark if the guy annoyed you, two if he didn't!")
("Ruff!")
But that's how the system works. We're stuck with it. There's no point whatsoever in engaging in a Quixotic crusade against the IRS (or other government agency of your choice) just to prove that you're a Patriotic Free Man Who Loves His/Her Nation. THAT'S why I have no patience whatsoever with tax protestors.
The only way to change a well-established precedent in case law is either with a new law, or (if it's touches on constitutional matters) an amendment to the Constitution.
And *THAT'S* where the politicians are engaging in disingenuity of the highest order.
Perfect example: the pointless and meaningless flag-protection laws that seem to appear each and every election year. The congresscritters pass these things FULLY KNOWING that they'll be smashed the first time they make it into a federal court, but it makes a great show to the folks back home: "hey, we TRIED, it's the evil COURTS what thwarted us!"
So, I ask: "OK ... if you're that serious about it, why don't you pass a Constitutional amendment protecting the flag?"
(Speaking hypothetically; I'd actually oppose such an amendment solely because the courts would use *THAT* to invent all sorts of strange new precedents. Same reason I opposed the Equal Rights Amendment back in the 70's, even though I certainly support things like equal pay and equal opportunity for women.)
(But anyway, I ask the question.) CongressCritter replies, "sputter ... well ... uh ..."
See? They *KNOW* they're engaging in photo-ops and meaningless grandstanding. But if it wins a few votes ("Ah'm gonna vote for Senator Gritsucker 'cuz he's ONE UV' US!"), they figure, why not?
We need term limits.
We need meaningful campaign finance reform (no slogans, either -- I mean, serious limits on spending, contributions, and the rest of the madness).
We need to crack down on voter fraud.
We need national referendums. Even if non-binding, they'd get the attention of the CongressCritters.
We need a flat tax system, or a national sales tax (I strongly lean toward the former).
We need a new Constitutional amendment CLEARLY spelling out just what constitutes an "unlawful search and siezure," instead of leaving the definition of that term to the courts.
I also think that we need a new Amendment clearly defining just what constitutes the right to "keep and bear arms." Like Flint, I wouldn't want to see every sub-zero IQ moron with a suitcase nuke, but let's hit the nail on the head: within REASON, your choice of weapon with which to protect yourself and your family should be YOUR business, and no one else's.
I won't deny that these are interesting times (ala the old Chinese proverb[g]). But I haven't given up hope yet. Bill Clinton snookered the American public when he played that saxophone on Arsenio Hall's show back in '91, and his magic lingers. But he's gonna be gone soon.
Get out and vote, dood. Work for candidates who make sense. It takes a TON of work, and until we get meaningful campaign reform, a lot of money; but it CAN be done.
And Z? I certainly don't plan to vote for the AlGore-rithm, but even HE would be an improvement over the current occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania. :)
-- Stephen (smpoole7@bellsouth.net), June 19, 2000.
Friday? A pee-ess.In my more deranged moments, I even toy with ideas like, anytime the Supreme Court declares a law unconstitutional, it AUTOMATICALLY goes to the "several states" for a "yeah" or "nay" vote. (This would require a constitutional amendment ... maybe even include a provision that failure to vote equals a "yeah?" so they can't wimp out?[g])
If a 2/3 majority of the states disagree with the Supreme Justices, the law stands.
Don't know if that would work, but it would take some of the wimp factor out of the Congresscritters, and would FORCE them to take a stand on these issues, instead of wringing their hands so piously while they snicker all the way to the bank to deposit their latest big contribution from some special interest group ...
(Don't get me started.)
(I have a VERY devious mind.[g])
-- Stephen (smpoole7@bellsouth.net), June 19, 2000.
Mr. Poole: I wish you well in your endeavors to reform the system. I don't think you have a chance in hell of accomplishing anything that will make a meaningful difference. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I am; the forces of evil are much too powerful to be deflected peacefully. Good luck. You'll need it.
-- Sergeant Friday (just.the@facts.maam), June 19, 2000.
Mr. Poole: I wish you well in your endeavors to reform the system. I don't think you have a chance in hell of accomplishing anything that will make a meaningful difference. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I am; the forces of evil are much too powerful to be deflected peacefully. Good luck. You'll need it. -- Sergeant Friday (just.the@facts.maam), June 19, 2000."The forces of evil"???
Above and below is the mental frame work that leads to the extremism seen on TB I and Sleeze. Its just a short step from this "superiority complex" thinking of "we (I) know more than the "herd", we are in trouble and if we don't do X or Y or Z, we are "doomed". Applying Aaron Lynch's concepts to this sort of "thinking", enables one to de- construct the arguments given as "logical" when they are merely fancified "beliefs".
Where this particular poster's argument falls apart is at the point where he insists Our Systems' Method of Change aka: the political process; is hopeless and ...........because it is going in the direction he doesn't "like" (believe in), "revolution" is needed. And of course, he disclaims being its advocate right after advocating it. More of the same circular reasoning can be found all through the thread and on many others from the "True Believers" of the Shakey, Hawk, Al-D or who ever sort.
Why? Because like Yourdon, "They Know What They Know" ........AND YOU DON"T, DO YOU?? YOU, are not "worthy" UNLESS you "agree with them".
From that came all the rest of the TB absurd positions, re-inforced daily by the Planting and the Spinning and the "LinkMeistering" direction of the Self-Appointed Saviors of Us All.
This self-set intellectual trap is what YourToasty, Hyatt, North, Lord and minor voices like "Big Dog", Sysman, Paula Gordon and Heller fall into. Gordon was merely someone without the skill set (aka: the BS Detector) to avoid being mislead into her continuing Y2k "mis- adventures" to be kind.The "trap" is simple. Make up your mind you and your "facts" are correct and set the path of action. The problem is that without constant review of your position, "Time" forgets the questions you were addressing.
Never was this more obvious than with North, YourDone and Heller. They took information from 1995 to 1997 and constructed "their" house of cards. Heller used as his argument a few documents on his web site that were sourced in 1997 or 1998 as late as 1999 then had the nerve to blame a report from Nov. 1999 as his "reason" for being lead into errors of judgments. This was the typical "sorry I was wrong with excuses" dodge of the Sysman/Big Dog and the rest.
Here you have the "raw mentality" of the self-appointed "leader" which as noted is but a short hop from truly *Irrational Positions*.
Just the statement that a rant from someone else was "90% right" should set off all the warning sirens for what is to come. That "90%" is the part the poster agrees with; you may bet your assets on that.
NOTE: it doesn't matter what the issue is. The "herd" is "not informed", mislead, un-educated (because of the school system a contradiction in terms since anyone who can read and write can apply those tools when the "Truth" does appear).
It is the position of "Superiority" whether by intellect, information, or just plain "don't bother me with any *other* facts, that leads to the effect Aaron Lynch calls, a "Thought Contagion", the intellectual form of virus that "must" be spread to :
1. Save all others and
2. Re-inforce the "belief system"
And it is the application of Lynch's powerful concept that enables people to see through and think through that which "The BS Detectors" might miss.
http://www.mcs.net/~aaron/tmc.htm
Learn from this Clown below. Judge for yourself his "Superiority Complex". Then remember the German word for "Leader".
====================================================================== ============== http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=003LSz
Mr. Bond isn't completely correct. Perhaps only 90 percent of the things he points to are realities. However, those of you who think he is completely wrong are going to learn the hard way that he is a lot closer to being right then he is to being wrong.
I feel sorry for those who have been brainwashed by the "public education" system and had never heard the truth about our current political system. I don't feel sorry for those who have heard and refused to listen; they deserve the chains they are wearing and those they will be wearing soon, which will be much heavier. Then they will cry "but I didn't know!". That will do them no good.
-- Sergeant Friday (just.The@facts.Maam), June 18, 2000.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- No, Flint, I'm not interested in trying to lead the unwilling anywhere. In my opinion, the majority of people in this country deserve their slavery because they are too lazy or too stupid to notice that they are slaves. They'll notice it sometime in the relatively near future, but by then it will be far too late for them to do anything about it; the "Million Mom March" is working feverishly to ensure that. My plan is to be gone before that happens, and I'm making good progress on it. I'll watch the decline into totalitarianism from a safe haven elsewhere.
-- Sergeant Friday (just.the@facts.maam), June 18, 2000.
================== ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------
Mr. Poole: I agree with you and with the "Dixie land Law Journal" article that many people, possibly including the one who started this thread, use arguments against the validity of the government and/or taxation that are either absurd on their face or have been repeatedly rejected by the courts. I do not recommend that anyone follow these procedures.
Where I disagree with you is that I do not believe that there is any longer a possibility of reforming the government substantially in a peaceful manner. I expect the situation to worsen at a rather rapid pace until it becomes intolerable to the citizens at large, and then a violent revolution to occur.
I'm sure someone will now accuse me of favoring such a revolution, or of fomenting it. I am doing neither. I am only stating my opinion of what will occur. If there were a peaceful means to reform the government that I thought had any chance of success, I would gladly support it. I do not believe there is such a means, as the government will not permit itself to be reformed without violence. -- Sergeant Friday (just.the@facts.maam), June 18, 2000.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------
http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=003LSz
-- cpr (buytexas@swbell.net), June 19, 2000.
Stephen:"(Digression/illustration: most of the members of the Cuban-American community down in Florida don't even know that Kendall Coffey, Elian's attorney, is an old Democratic party hack and a long-time friend of Janet Reno's. No less a beagle than Alan Dershowitz has come right out and all but accused Coffey of throwing that case.)"
The Miami Herald has had MANY articles on this. I find it hard to believe that *I* have this information, while folks living in Miami do not.
-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), June 19, 2000.
Anita,I was going by what Jack Thompson has been saying at Newsmax, as well as to our stations in various interviews. He seems to think that the full details of Coffey's affiliation isn't widely know, in part because most of the Cuban American community doesn't listen to English-language media, and the Spanish-language stations haven't mentioned it much.
Newsmax claims, in fact, that two Hispanic radio hosts have been canned in the past two weeks for interviewing Thompson, and for permitting Thompson to go into details on Coffey's affiliation and very poor handling of the case.
I do know that the Dershowitz thing is for-real.
But if you're right (and you should know if you're there!), I stand instantly corrected.
Wouldn't life be simpler if these things were clear-cut, no muddy waters, absolute right or wrong?[g]
-- Stephen (smpoole7@bellsouth.net), June 19, 2000.
Just for fun I ran the original post through the "Dialectizer" at www.rinkworks.com with the dialect set on "redneck" (no offense). Pretty funny!Your Text, Dialectized (redneck)
ARE YOU TRULY FREE... when on over ha'f of yer hard arned money is stolen, direckly an' indireckly, by legalized fraud called income taxes to suppo't unconscionable spendin' habits of career politicians... an' rulers aroun' th' wo'ld? An',
ARE YOU TRULY FREE...when govment ajunts falsely accuse varmints of crimes shoot an' kill a nursin' Mammy an' chile (Weavah), use banned gas t'burn out on over 80 varmints (Waco Holocaest), Go'don Call, etc. An',
ARE YOU TRULY FREE...when yer deprived of yer currency which yo' wawked hard fo', paid taxes on? Th' $1,000 an' $500 bills were slyly taken outta circulashun. When ennyone DOES NOT be hankerin' t'play th' game of cashless, checkless society he is accused of bustin' th' law. Plastic strips is now inserted in th' noo currency. Bankers/govment claim ennyone wif a large amount of cash is a criminal, ah reckon. This hyar violates menny religious beliefs sech as Rev.,13:16-18. Th' conspirato's real purpose is t'wawk fo' th' private bankers, puttin' us in a cashless, checkless society. An', WHEN...in our LAND OF THE FREE yo' kin no longer drive on freeways o' public street wifout buyin' a drivahs license an' car registrashun fum bureaucrats...givin' them LEGAL TITLE of OWNERSHIP t'yer car in exchange fo' a certificut of title thet shows yo' gave yer true ownyship AWAY? An', WHEN...BUREAUCRATS MAKE YOU PAY legal ransom t'a private insurance-compenny so yo' kin drive yer car?
An', WHEN...in our LAND OF THE FREE yo' muss send yer chillun t'a licensed skoo o' bureaucrats kin/will legally kidnap yer chillun, cornfiscut yer propuhty an' put yo' in jail? An', When, as enny fool kin plainly see...yo' muss read non-mainstream publicashuns in o'der t'larn THE TRUTH, on account o' th' nashunal noos media tells only whut th' political establishment allers its public t'see o' hear as noos..?
An', WHEN...OUR LAND OF THE FREE has mo'e political-prisoners than other nashuns; mo'e slave-labo'-camp-prisons (UNICOR) is bein' built ev'ry year? An', WHEN...bureaucrats claim a crime needs no vickim by claimin' a crime is an offense aginst an abstrack (legal fickshun) called th' state?
An', WHEN...business-income taxes is piled on top of etch other...hidden in th' prices of ev'ry South Car'linan produck, GROSSLY INFLATING costs, fo'cin' indestries t'leave our country...takin' millions of our bess jobs wif them?
An', WHEN... in our LAND OF THE FREE bureaucrats kin knows most of yer financial transackshuns an' legally pry into yer bank reco'ds wifout yer smarts o' cornsent? (violatin' a sacred trest, yer privacy, an' 4th amendment right).
An', WHEN ...yo' believe th' BIG-LIE thet yer RIGHTS come fum public servants instead of fum ALMIGHTY GOD, Creato' of all nature? An', WHEN yo' pay yer debts wif dollar bills which is notices of debt yo' owe t'th' PRIVATELY OWNED Federal Resarve Banks (a private co'po'ashun) which pay no income taxes...an' who create money outta skimpy air?
An', WHEN...in our LAND OF THE FREE public servants haf created a spider web of on over TWO MILLION laws an' rules intanglin' ev'ry part of yer life wif intrapment schemes, (Road Blocks)-etc., while supreme court judges seldom agree on th' meanin' of enny of them?
An', WHEN...if yo' doesn't pay yer taxes (rent) th' real owny of yer propuhty shows up, takes it fum yo', violatin' Allodial Lan' Rights ... an' may/will shootcha, o' put yo' in jail, ah reckon.
An', WHEN...in our LAND OF THE FREE its okay t'legally murder unborn an' raised babies, clevahly callin' abo'ticide abo'shun An', WHEN... public-servant judges illegally guide votes of Citizen Juro's by LYING, tellyng them they muss vote t'enfo'ce th' alleged laws of th' case (even eff'n it violates Rights secured by th' consteetooshun)? An', WHEN....th' wo'd varmint is legally defined as a co'po'ashun an' judges an' govment lawyers Coerce Juries into jailin' feller South Car'linans fo' disobeyin' laws made fo' private bankers an' private co'po'ashuns t'CONTROL our once FREE PEOPLE?
An', WHEN...yer church muss git a 501-C3 license (tax exempp) so its members kin write off gif's-legally wo'ship th' state god, not ALMIGHTY GOD, Creato' of all nature?
An', WHEN...career-politicians, tax collecko's, po-lice an' courts (judges) is mo'e of a threat t'life, liberty an' propuhty than a thief in th' night? (Been in court lately?) An', WHEN yo' SADLY LEARN..Mo'e crimes occur in South Car'linan court rooms in one day than in th' streets in a whole year?
WHEN...in our LAND OF THE FREE yer chillun is a ward of th' state on account o' yo' used a marriage license? (Yer chillun is notcher chillun on account o' of thet license!)
An', WHEN...yer jailed fo' exercisin' yer God-given Consteetooshunally secured Rights eff'n yo' dont grease th' palms (fines=mulck) of bureaucrats?
An', WHEN...in our LAND OF THE FREE yer chillun is a ward of th' state on account o' yo' used a marriage license? (Yer chillun Notcher chillun on account o' of thet license!)
An', WHEN...in our LAND OF THE FREE YOU CAN NO LONGER PRACTICE Free Enterprise o' wawk wifout th' SS-ID number, Mark of the Beast, an' yer fo'ced t'buy a permit o' license fum bureaucrats o' hoof it to jail?
An', WHEN...yer jailed fo' exercisin' yer God-given Consteetooshunally Secured Rights eff'n yo' doesn't grease th' palms (fines=mulot) of bureaucrats? An', WHEN ev'rythin' yo' an' yer chillun will evah own is mo'tgaged t'fo'eign bankers who own th' private Federal Resarve Banks, yer loan c'd be due an' colleckible on deman'...BECAUSE THE CONGRESS REFUSES t'OBEY th' CONSTITUTION providin' our nashun wif a debt-free, Honess money system! Fry mah hide!
An', WHEN...yo' c'd be dyin' fum a disease (cancer) thet is curable in other countries (suppressed in AmeriKa on account o' th' early 30's) wif sartin medicines, nutrients, an' vitamins which, eff'n used t'save yer life, is a crime in our LAND OF THE FREE strippin' us of our 1st an' 9th amendment Rights, FREEDOM of CHOICE?
An', WHEN... eff'n yo' say sumpin publicly thet is not Politically Co'reck, th' noos-media kin publicly corndemn yo' wifout a trial, by implyin' yer a racist, cultist, neo-nazi, anti-Semitic, hate monger, trimenjusot, radical, armed an' dangerous, extreme-right-winger, tax-protester, un-South Car'linan, as enny fool kin plainly see...etc.?
An', WHEN...th' Federal Govment pretends t'wage a War On Drugs (acshully promotin' drugs) as an excuse t'make laws thet deprive us of our God-given RIGHTS t'Life, Liberty, an' Propuhty ...Freedom t'Choose an' t'be Lef' Alone?
An', WHEN...CRIME PAYS BIG... fo' Trimenjus Brother Govment, lyin' politicians, judges, govment lawyers, po-lice...on account o' ev'ry noo law cuzs menny mo'e vickimless crimes as an excuse fo' higher an' higher taxes, supposedly used t'punish th' violato's (vickims) of nooly invented crimes, which God nevah thunk of, aginst a legal fickshun, th' State?
An', WHEN...in our LAND OF THE FREE th' flag displayed in court rooms an' other public buildin's has a gold fringi bo'der, which is NOT the South Car'linan flag, indicatin' thet we is unner Martial Law unannounced?
An', WHEN..... yo' muss ax an' pay bureaucrats fo' legal permisshun t'git married up wif, even though marriage is a sacrament direckly fum our lovin' Pappy, ALMIGHTY GOD?
An', WHEN...Republican an' Democratic Presidents give yer taxes t'fo'eign countries, grub thet sh'd be given t'our needy is given t'fo'eign nashuns, destroyin' our own varmints...our se'f-defense arms is confiscated, cuss it all t' tarnation...creatin' wars an' riots; th' United States Military is unner th' United Nashuns comman'...YOUR JOB expo'ted on overseas...our LAND OF THE FREE PLACED UNDER THE DICTATORIAL RULE of NON-ELECTED FOREIGNERS called th' NEW WORLD ORDER?!
Fry mah hide! Creatin' wars an' riots;
IF THIS IS FREEDOM Then WHAT is SLAVERY???
Eff'n Yo' Figger Yer FREE, Whut in tarnation kin yo' does wifout: A. gittin' a permit; B. gittin' a license; C. payin' a tax; D. yer Social Surveillance-lD # (sh'd not be used fo' identificashun)
Larn how t'be free.
-- ... (just@for.laughs), June 19, 2000.
Could anyone explain who / what "UNICOR" are, please? Let me guess: something to do with how the UN is going to come along and herd everyone off into slave labor camps?And why is it that in the "LAND OF THE FREE" someone who is concerned about the "DICTATORIAL RULE of NON-ELECTED FOREIGNERS" takes a foreign secret agent's name as an alias? Mad as a hatter.
-- Skinny Rob (skinny_rob@hotmail.com), June 21, 2000.
That's alright, found them!
-- Skinny Rob (skinny_rob@hotmail.com), June 21, 2000.