skito, I'd like to wipe your Waku Waku 7 .inp because you used the -cheat function for it, and it seems to go against the spirit of the rules here to program multi-button ombos. Do you want to make a new .inp to replace the old one, so we can set a precedent for this at MARP? I don't think it needs to go to vote, it's pretty clear that you couldn't do this on an arcade machine.

Are there any other recrodings where people are doing this?

QCN

-- Anonymous, June 16, 2000

Answers

yeah, it deserves wiping, i don't know how to tell if a recording has the -cheat function used other than if people state they have used it or not, dang i need to stop being too honest! ben will hopefully have a way, but if there is a way to detect it, there is a way to hack it to NOT be seen.

i'll try to reup a recording, but it'll be a while before i can get to fernandeath again, I beat him once using the button helpers, but i must admit they are an indisputable advantage being able to hit all four buttons at any point you need them. usually it is very difficult to hit them all four even using a joystick, with a keyboard it's impossible.

-- Anonymous, June 17, 2000

I haven't looked at this particular game, but speaking from experience with my chkDIPs program, yes, it is pretty easy to detect special functions that require "-cheat" in the .inp, and, no, there is no way to mask it. I am pretty sure the same holds for Waku Waku 7, because I remember looking at the source code for some of the games that allow combinations to be assigned to special buttons. Those special buttons show up as separate bits in the .inp, just like RLH in T&F, for instance, was a separate bit.

Cheers, Ben Jos.

-- Anonymous, June 17, 2000

you could mask what i have done if you knew what the bits where that made the multiple buttons z (cntl-alt),x(shift-space),v(cntl-alt- shift),z(cntl-alf-shift-space) and then zeroed out those bits and set in the bits for cntl,alt,shift,space accordingly. actually i'd like to try and do this to see if it can be done with my already recorded wakuwaku7 recording, ben how would i go about finding which bits are masked to where with wakuwak7 for m35b10?

(btw, qt, i made a 320k recording with out cheating, thank goodness the maru smacking throw doesn't require two buttons :) and even though the hara-hara attack requires two i can get them off ok enough with holding cntl-alt down with the right timing, with practice and a fixed/better joystick i hope to get a fernandeath win... heh that's pipe dreaming.)

-- Anonymous, June 19, 2000

skito, I pray to the seven crystals that you never get a Hotrod, or else you may become undisputed master of all that is two-handed. As for Waku Waku 7, I'ma be in the hunt for this one. If I could just beat the stupid whatzername-heart-girl.

Be forewarned.

Oh, one last thing, I couldn't get ritzu's new high on Cyberball 2 player - Game Breaker to playback. Can someone check this .inp for me and confirm/delete? Thanx.

QCN

-- Anonymous, June 19, 2000

heh, I've been debating the hotrod, then i'll be hitting all four buttons would be easy as cake and robotron would be slightly easier but i've gotten slightly used to using a keyboard mapped to a keypad, i'd like to see someone else "really" play robotron, my 5 life score is pretty far off the TG record, i'd like to see somone get to wave 100. the only reason i haven't gotten a hotrod is that you can't program the keys (or at least that's what the sales dude say) I would want certain keys to be certain keys, i would want alt where i'm used to space or lshift being. Is it true you can't program the keys? supposed they're making a program where you can custom load and write key files for different games, but that's "in the works."

If you've ever beaten fernandeath, it's silly the amount of points you can rack up for special bonuses from previous fights. I got 8.8Million when i beat fern. on one credit and from what i can fathom 20Million is possible (no my name isn't hisa chan :)

i'll check out the cyberball recordings tonight...

-- Anonymous, June 20, 2000

damn crappy typos, me learnt engrish really good: "then i'll be hitting" should be "then hitting" "i would want alt" should be "i wouldn't want alt" and "suppose" should be "supposedly", the list goes on.

-- Anonymous, June 21, 2000

Chad:

Look at neogeo.c:

These are the bits for the first byte (byte 0) of every frame in an .inp:

PORT_START /* IN0 */ PORT_BIT( 0x01, IP_ACTIVE_LOW, IPT_JOYSTICK_UP ) PORT_BIT( 0x02, IP_ACTIVE_LOW, IPT_JOYSTICK_DOWN ) PORT_BIT( 0x04, IP_ACTIVE_LOW, IPT_JOYSTICK_LEFT ) PORT_BIT( 0x08, IP_ACTIVE_LOW, IPT_JOYSTICK_RIGHT ) PORT_BIT( 0x10, IP_ACTIVE_LOW, IPT_BUTTON1 ) PORT_BIT( 0x20, IP_ACTIVE_LOW, IPT_BUTTON2 ) PORT_BIT( 0x40, IP_ACTIVE_LOW, IPT_BUTTON3 ) PORT_BIT( 0x80, IP_ACTIVE_LOW, IPT_BUTTON4 )

So, for instance, a value of 0xff means "nothing" (note the "IP_ACTIVE_LOW", so a bit with the value 0 means "active"), and a value of 0xeb would mean "button1 and joy-left.

Then look at the eigth byte for every frame:

PORT_START /* FAKE */ PORT_BIT( 0x01, IP_ACTIVE_HIGH, IPT_BUTTON5 | IPF_CHEAT ) /* A+B */ PORT_BIT( 0x02, IP_ACTIVE_HIGH, IPT_BUTTON6 | IPF_CHEAT ) /* C+D */ PORT_BIT( 0x04, IP_ACTIVE_HIGH, IPT_BUTTON7 | IPF_CHEAT ) /* A+B+C */ PORT_BIT( 0x08, IP_ACTIVE_HIGH, IPT_BUTTON8 | IPF_CHEAT ) /* A+B+C+D */ PORT_BIT( 0x10, IP_ACTIVE_HIGH, IPT_BUTTON5 | IPF_CHEAT | IPF_PLAYER2 ) PORT_BIT( 0x20, IP_ACTIVE_HIGH, IPT_BUTTON6 | IPF_CHEAT | IPF_PLAYER2 ) PORT_BIT( 0x40, IP_ACTIVE_HIGH, IPT_BUTTON7 | IPF_CHEAT | IPF_PLAYER2 ) PORT_BIT( 0x80, IP_ACTIVE_HIGH, IPT_BUTTON8 | IPF_CHEAT | IPF_PLAYER2 )

IPC_CHEAT means that these are only active in "-cheat" mode, and the lower 4 bits specify the "combination buttons".

Cheers, Ben Jos.

-- Anonymous, June 21, 2000

OK... let's try that again in a more HTML-friendly format: Chad: Look at neogeo.c: These are the bits for the first byte (byte 0) of every frame in an .inp:

PORT_START /* IN0 */
PORT_BIT( 0x01, IP_ACTIVE_LOW, IPT_JOYSTICK_UP )
PORT_BIT( 0x02, IP_ACTIVE_LOW, IPT_JOYSTICK_DOWN )
PORT_BIT( 0x04, IP_ACTIVE_LOW, IPT_JOYSTICK_LEFT )
PORT_BIT( 0x08, IP_ACTIVE_LOW, IPT_JOYSTICK_RIGHT )
PORT_BIT( 0x10, IP_ACTIVE_LOW, IPT_BUTTON1 )
PORT_BIT( 0x20, IP_ACTIVE_LOW, IPT_BUTTON2 )
PORT_BIT( 0x40, IP_ACTIVE_LOW, IPT_BUTTON3 )
PORT_BIT( 0x80, IP_ACTIVE_LOW, IPT_BUTTON4 )

So, for instance, a value of 0xff means "nothing" (note the "IP_ACTIVE_LOW", so a bit with the value 0 means "active"), and a value of 0xeb would mean "button1 and joy-left. Then look at the eigth byte for every frame:

PORT_START /* FAKE */
PORT_BIT( 0x01, IP_ACTIVE_HIGH, IPT_BUTTON5 | IPF_CHEAT ) /* A+B */
PORT_BIT( 0x02, IP_ACTIVE_HIGH, IPT_BUTTON6 | IPF_CHEAT ) /* C+D */
PORT_BIT( 0x04, IP_ACTIVE_HIGH, IPT_BUTTON7 | IPF_CHEAT ) /* A+B+C */
PORT_BIT( 0x08, IP_ACTIVE_HIGH, IPT_BUTTON8 | IPF_CHEAT ) /* A+B+C+D 
*/
PORT_BIT( 0x10, IP_ACTIVE_HIGH, IPT_BUTTON5 | IPF_CHEAT | IPF_PLAYER2 
)
PORT_BIT( 0x20, IP_ACTIVE_HIGH, IPT_BUTTON6 | IPF_CHEAT | IPF_PLAYER2 
)
PORT_BIT( 0x40, IP_ACTIVE_HIGH, IPT_BUTTON7 | IPF_CHEAT | IPF_PLAYER2 
)
PORT_BIT( 0x80, IP_ACTIVE_HIGH, IPT_BUTTON8 | IPF_CHEAT | IPF_PLAYER2 
)

IPC_CHEAT means that these are only active in "-cheat" mode, and the lower 4 bits specify the "combination buttons". Cheers, Ben Jos.

-- Anonymous, June 21, 2000