It seems NUFC fans on here certainly think so.

It's been said that big earners over the #20K a week bracket should keep stum? So, it's ok for a 3rd Div. player to take exception at being called shite and give the finger...cos he only earns #(n) but it's a national disgrace to do exactly the same if yer pocket bulges a bit more than the next man?

Since when has the money in yer pocket been proportional to yer tolerance level?

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

Answers

LR, if I have the kind of money some players have in their pockets, my tolerance level would have been nil. I could then afford thugs and the best solicitors to sort out my enemies.....but then I am a nobody.

Now when you put on national colours and representing your country, it's a different story altogether. When you stick a finger in retaliation and the team, the whole country suffers because

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

LR, if I have the kind of money some players have in their pockets, my tolerance level would have been nil. I could then afford thugs and the best solicitors to sort out my enemies.....but then I am a nobody.

Now when you put on national colours and representing your country, it's a different story altogether. When you stick a finger in retaliation and the team, the whole country suffers because of your petulance, you expect to have it coming.

You are right, how much money you have has nothing to do with tolerance.

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

How on earth does the team and whole country suffer?

In that case you could also say that the ations of these "supporters" effects the team and therefore the country as a whole....couldn't you?

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

I was just thinking about the world cup, England vs Argentina, and I was also thinking about Euro 2000, what if UEFA decided to give Mr Stupid Spice a lengthy ban for the finger incident (which obviously they have decided not) on the eve of the Germany game? Well, maybe nobody will suffer when afterall, it's just a football game.

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

Is tolerance to abuse directly proportional to the Queen's Shilling earned by players? No it's proportionate to the stature they hold in the game of football, which is proportionate to the amount of money they earn.

Obvioulsy if you earn big bucks you're in the spotlight merely because you must play for one of the best teams. (Unless you play for Rushden & Diamonds and have a mad chairman who pays big bucks on shit footballers, but that's another thing!!)

At the end of the day, like it or not these players should not respond because there are rules in the game saying they shouldn't do. A bit of a simplistic view, you might say, but quite clear. Many players have taken abuse over the years and Beckham probably takes more than anyone but he can't react.

Keegan has said if it wasn't for the perspex screens he would have been in there with the fans giving them stick, now that would have been reacting and he would be accused of losing the plot, again!

I'm not condoning the abuse either.

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

I always came down on the Cantona side of the crowd-abuse debate. Mocking someone during a game when he's playing against your team is one thing, but when members of the crowd make a point of running up to follow them along the pitch screaming abuse at them, I'm just itching to see the player launch in studs first.

How can you expect footballers to act with decorum and grace if you then reserve the right to scream foul mouthed abuse at them from close quarters when the game is finished? Don't blame him in the least for giving them the finger - in a British ground those fans would have been prevented from behaving like that in the first place. Supporters? My arse! Did we think it was amusing when this bunch of 'fans' imitated monkeys when Xavier came to take a throw-in? Scumbags like that deserve no respect.

I pray that Big Al's goal celebration when he scores his third against the Jormans on Saturday will be to run over to the press enclosure, point at Oliver Holt and Harry Harris, drop his shorts and start flapping the cheeks of his arse open and shut at them. He should then stand in the centre circle and do a 365 degree two fingers to the Ingerlund fans who sang cheer up Alan Shearer on Monday and walk calmly from the stage of International Football and get the first flight back to the Golden City where he belongs.

Now, my solution for Stormont is....:-)

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

Well, I for one think this is all just being blown up out of all proportion. Why do these tossers do it? Nobody who saw Bex as he walked off the pitch can have any doubt about how he was feeling. IMHO, any sort of negative comments from the stands is wrong. Sure, we may all take the p*$$ out of the Mackems, ManUre etc, but I for one do not stand up 'cos we hate XXXXXXXX (substitute any preferred target).

Call me old-fashioned (or just old if you like) but I'd rather have positive support for my team than negative chants for th opposition. Just how much do these morons think that such negative chants inspires their own team?

I guess I can understand barracking of an opponent. Bex is (probably) fair game in EPL matches. But WTF have Posh and Brooklyn got to do with it? Sadly, professional players must expect to be targetted by fans and their oppoonents on the pitch.

I would certainly say that a professional should be big enough not to retaliate to constant fouling. But to suffer the kind of abuse Beckham has, it is beyond the reasonable for him not to react at all. As I said elsewhere, I thought he was the best of a poor(ish) bunch and had his best game for England - a sentiment backed up by others "in the know". How would you lot feel if you'd done that and still suffered that kind of abuse? I wouldn't be surprised if he decideto pack in international football. I know what I'd have done. One finger doesn't come into it.

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

So are these so-called "supporters" part of the hooligans regime?

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

"one finger doesn't come into it".............nice one Old.

:-)

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

"I wouldn't be surprised if he decide to pack in international football"

Could be closer than you think. All this must devalue playing for England.

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

I think we have to accept that there are people who almost hate Team England. I know of some Man United fans who have gone just for when it kicks off and to abuse Shearer et al. I'm sure there are fans with almost the same plans from any club in the league.

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

It was a heat of the moment thing. Beckham doesn't have Gazza'a intellectual capabilities and combined with distress at losing the game he just cracked.

If he players don't like the abuse the crowd give them they need to think about their positions with the ref and the other players. Every game on the box shows a close up of some player bad mouthing either an opponent or a ref. This is okay cos it's a man's game. Unless you're a Pedro or a Lineker or a Bobby Charlton you aren't beyond reproach.

LR, do you believe the abuse heaped on Beckham was any worse than the abuse Stam gave the linesman at Newcastle, or the lot of them gave the ref against Boro ? (I know it is lsightly different but there are parallels)

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

MacBeth,

I agree sort of but there's a world of difference between Al saying "f...k off tw.t," to Desailly and those lads shouting "we hope your baby dies of cancer", "we're going to kill your baby". The thing is, that sort of ability only comes up once a decade and these people, assuming they are England fans, will be calling him all sorts when he gives up the international game. Why play for these people? I've said this before but every England player (even Paul Scholes) is too good for 90% of England fans.

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

Did anyone see those Three Lions documentaries in the run up to the tournament? There was a section about John Barnes after he scored that wonder goal on his debut aginst Brazil. All the way back on the team plane he was taunted by some NF boys, giving it that his goal didn't count because "niggers ain't English". But Barnsey, ever the gent, just shrugged it all off along with all the abuse that he and other black players put up with. I never saw one black player give the Vs or jump into the crowd despite 1000s making stupid monkey chants and throwing bananas. Probably because growing up in England they had to put up with abuse daily whereas Beckham is a spoilt brat.

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

Obviousl the TV reception down my way really is poor, 'cos I couldn't make out the target of the "cheer up" song...the fact it was Al actually surprises me - it shouldn't but it has. Like others have said, verbally abusing the opposition is part and parcel (although some of the twats in the England crowd seemed to have forgotten quite what they were there for...or maybe not). Abusing yer own players (if you support England) simply isn't on, in fact I'd lump them in with the undesirables sent back from the Dutch ports.

Looking at the replay of the Beckham fingering incident (for want of a better term) it is obviousl from his expression that there was more than the normal amount of baiting. Some can be put down to disappointment at the result and performance (bar 1st 20 mins)...most can be put down to simply twatfulness.

On the other hand, it was interesting to hear the Dutch coppers saying one of the reasons there wasn't much bother after the game was due to smoking out the culprits, as it were. And we want to just use it for medical use!?!?!? Better than pepper spray I reckon #-)==~

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

German TV had the cheer up song clearly being sung to Andy Cole!?!?! everyone with me agreed totally that it was uncalled for...

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

Especially as Andrew was probably off sulking with his toe in a bowl of salted water... :-)

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

The cheer up started off as "Cheer up Portugal" but there was definitely a round of "Cheer up Alan Shearer" in the second half...right about the sh*t football team mind.

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

Bobby,

LOL. "Sulking with his toe in a bowl of hot water".

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

IMHO, it is the behaviour of the small group of `fans` that should be under scrutiny, not Beckham`s. Keegan is quoted in the Telegraph as saying `If you`d been in the tunnel and heard what I heard...I was ashamed`.

Firstly, I will pin my colours firmly to the mast and say that I think Beckham is an astounding player, and I want him in the England team as much as I want Shearer there. However, I can`t for the life of me see why any of them actually want to pull on an England shirt - forget wearing three lions, it`s more like being thrown to the lions!

I don`t know how much money players earn by playing for England, but however much it is, it does not justify the cruel and virulent abuse that they were subjected too during and after that match. No wonder their heads went down.

Playing in the league is one thing - and I expect all of them at one time or another have been berrated by their supporters for `not being worth their wages`. Vilification by the press is commonplace. But, with all due respect to KK, and I adore the man, he decides who is picked for England, he decides who he plays. The players go out onto the pitch carrying the additional responsibility of the hopes and expectations of a nation, into a highly charged atmosphere, knowing what is at stake. They are actually taking a huge risk with their careers. Glory possibly, but injury and loss of credibility are also possible. That, in my eyes, makes them heroes.

Yes they are professionals, but they are human beings too, I can`t begin to imagine the gamut of emotions they must have felt during that match, but they must have been feeling pretty emotionally `raw` by the end. To then have to run the gauntlet of personal and cruel invective must have stung. And so what if Beckham flicked that little band of braindead morons the finger! It was hardly a big deal. Not a good move on his part, but totally understandable.

I feel it was the abuse which was unacceptable, not the, in the circumstances pretty mild, reaction.

So that is two firsts for me today. Firstly I found a football report in the Telegraph that I could actually relate to, and secondly I find myself drawn into an LR thread. No offence LR, but usually when you start cranking up the BBs I look at the thread and get an overwhelming feeling that the wheel is going round, but the hamster`s dead! Not an analogy to your intelligence, but to the `dead horse` aspect of discussing ManU on a NUFC BBs! (:o)

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

Douggie...how come you always know Man Utd fans that either think Yorke should be in the England team or who go to England games just to bait Shearer?. Firstly I don't know ANY United fans that go watch England...and if they did...why slate the Captain?..Sure..he's a twat for not signing fer us...but no one would pay good money just to diss one player.

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

LR,

READ before you reply. I said that they'd principally gone for the kick offs and that they would also enjoy the Shearer-baiting. I'm sure there are Toon fans who have gone to enjoy the fighting and, as a side order, enjoy taking the p..s out of Scholes. Yet another subtle difference from your half-cocked interpretation.

I didn't say I knew the Man United supporters. I said I knew of them. I get my info on these things from about three sources, all reliable. I, in fact only quoted the Man United fans (as opposed to the Chelsea fans who I knwo have also gone) because you were getting all "The world is ABU" whingey on us. You have your tossers, too, you know.

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

Mac...to answere yer question...No I don't think it was any worse. But we are talking two different things here. This is abuse from England fans to an England player. You lot get mighty pissed of when some elements in your crowd boo, jeer and hurl abuse at your players after a bad day at the office.

I just don't see anything so wrong with Beckhams actions following this abuse that it calls for someone like Roy Hattersley stating that Beckham is a national disgrace...or national liability....whatever it was he said. It's pathetic that we allow ourselves to get so wound up at a player reacting instinctively at abuse. Jeeze...we ALL used to love nutty American tennis players shouting at umpires and crowds didn't we?

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

Talking about Andy Cole, I received the following on the NUFC mailing list:

Sort of Related, or rather Non Euro 2000 ex Toon Tosser.

Andy Cole watched yesterdays game in the same local bar in Barbados as mesel. As I wandered up to him looking splendid in my Toon top he looked a bit wary, so he must have been pleased when I politely asked him to sign a bit of paper I had folded over.

After he signed it I unfolded it to reveal the Headline "Shearer best striker in Europe" by 'Eusebio' he looked none to pleased to have endorsed it!!

A few other lads in the Bar approached him for a signature and nearly all commented what a surly twat he was, never spoke a friendly word to anyone.

He is a tosser of the highest order and is getting his just reward for singing that song, I should have reminded him that he was sitting there 'cos he blew it at Wimbledon in the coca cola a few years ago.

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

LR - I've yet to see a tennis pro either leap into in the crowd and karate kick them, or give the one finger salute at Wimbledon Lawn Tennis Association.

Then again, they don't usually wear red in tennis do they :-)

Beckham should know better by now not to react to things like that, but I really don't give a toss. If Roy Hattersley made any critical comment he can stick it back up his fat Sheff Wednesday arse...and enjoy Div1 football for a while. Almost as bad as Tony Banks sticking his uncultured oar in

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

You haven't got kids have ya Bobby?

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

"cranking up the BBS"...lol....but yer point should be taken by everyone on here...well that's my honest opinion anyway.

Beer for you

LR

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

Lanky

This is a face that looks like it cares? ---> :-|

I've already made my opinion of the people sitting in the England end giving verbal abuse clear.

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

Yes Bobby...you have made your opinion about England's apes very clear but you fail to realise the gravity of slating someone's kids...especially with "we hope your kid dies of cancer"....and you expect Beckham to be able to "take" that??? Anyone says that to me and I don't give them the finger...I give them Billy The fuckin' Baseball Bat!!

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

Sticks and stones etc, etc. Comments may have been hurtful, but I don't think I've particularly castigated Beckham for reacting. It's a very minor aspect of Monday, and I'm not really bothered if he bared his backside and farted in their general direction. Simply put, you shouldn't show any reactions to that sort of nonsense.

And your final comments are crass - name calling is playground stuff...always has been and always will. Saying you'll batter someone 'cos they've said something out of order is daft. Quite who you hope to impress I don't know.

That Navy lark didn't do you any favours did it? :-)

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

Ok Bobby...that's right. I'm just trying to impress. Like I said...you ain't got kids have ya?

Threre ain't a father on this BBS who'd walk away from that. Not ONE.

The RN?...did me loads of good pal...character building.

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

>>>>>>Threre ain't a father on this BBS who'd walk away from that. Not ONE<<<<<<

As I continually tell my two teenage daughters.....the best way to upset and annoy people throwing any kind of abuse at you is to simply ignore it and walk away.......nothing annoys and upsets them more than the thought it has not got to you.........

Those morons are probably gloating in the fact that they got him to take the bait........

If you can't take the heat.....get out of the kitchen.

and BTW....it's not so much the Queen's Shilling.......nor are my comments made out of jealousy as you seem to believe, but if you (and your missus) sell your life, your kids and your soul to OK and Hello magazine for millions then I'm sorry, but you reap what you sow.

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

>>>>The RN?...did me loads of good pal...character building.

I think you should have words with the architect LR... (-;

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

Ok Lancy.

We've already found one father on this BBS (can we include mums?) who believes that name calling and bad mouthing yer kids is the sign of desperation from the offending berks. To me it's no worse than kids in the playground coming up with "your mum..." insults. As ITK says, if you react (especially disproportionately to the offence) you lose. I've always been determined not to be a loser, but I'm hopelessly down that road in so many other ways...

So, hands up those who would take a piece of wood to someone for calling names about their bairns, or wishing ill upon them?

Being ex-Navy doesn't make you any different to anyone else, either. Wor lass's old man did his bit on destroyers and was in the liberation of Norway in WW2, but is a gentle soul. Besides, the characters the armed forces seem to breed are racist, bigoted and violent. Hmmmm...typical Ingerlan' fans! :-)

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

'Threre ain't a father on this BBS who'd walk away from that. Not ONE.'

You're right. Not one. A lot more than one. I can't seriously believe that a grown man would think that the best answer to verbal abuse about your kids is to lay into them.

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

I'd be very tempted to go for anyone who was giving my kids verbal abuse.....if they weren't about to hear it then i'd almost definitely let it go (but I'd take the piss back!)...if they were there then i'd get them out of there and then sort the twat out...

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

Jonno...I said character bukiding only...I didn't say I was pretty. I'm more of yer "carbuncle" mate....whatever it is it' scharacter.

Talking of characters, that bloke ITK seems to think Beckham deserves someone shouting out he hopes his kid dies of cancer. Nice people you have as fans...I expect ITK was at Highfield Rd last term.

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

Unfortunately, there is a view in this country that anyone earning big money is fair game to take a shot at - fundamentally, that is why the tabloids prosper.
I don't particularly like David Beckham, and while he is certainly a very good footballer, I feel he is somewhat over-rated. That is my personal view. However, I happen to believe that David should be free to choose his wife as he wishes, irrespective of what she does for a living, should be able to call his kid whaever he likes, go out wherever he likes, and wear whatever he likes - all without being persecuted, either by the media, or by jerks who have paid for a ticket to a football match.
He was treat disgracefully after the WC, in the Press and in virtually every ground he visited. Indeed, he took some stick at SJP, and having watched his reaction very carefully, I felt he handled himself very well.
He is far from being alone in receiving such treatment of course, and Alan Shearer has been subjected to hysterical abuse continually for a couple of years now, much of it induced via the popular media.
Unless what appears to me to be a deteriorating situation is brought under control, we could as Galaxy suggested, find players and managers deciding not to subject themselves to what has become nothing less than persecution.
It is always better for players not to react to terrace abuse, as it never helps and sometimes makes things worse. However, they are only human and we need to expect them to ocasionally react. This applies to the recent Backs incident - the gesture was nothing much, apparently made in the face of appalling personal abuse, as he was leaving the field after an emotionally draining game with a very disappointing outcome. I feel we must be more understanding of the players and managers faced with such unreasonable aggression, and much less tolerant of the perpetrators - paying your ticket money does NOT entitle you to abuse others, however well-paid they are are, and however much you feel they may have disappointed you.

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

Bugger off Bobby will ya. Yer starting to wind-me up now.

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

Ok then, I'll just leave my reasoned non-violent argument there, shall I?

Take a deep breath, count to 10 and start again :-)

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

...or shall I duck while you try to crack me across the nose with a bat? ;-)

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

Somebody disses your kids, you whack them and end up at Her Majesty's Pleasure. Good parenting that is. Walk on by man, it's common sense. Preferably with a big fat smug "considerably richer than you" smile on your face.

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

Nope....I'll continue to fight my corner against the arseholes of the world if no-one else minds....

You boys and girls handle it however you want....

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

The only bit I'd add is in regard to Gav's comments. If your children are present, then clearly it's a direct threat which mitigates much in my book.

As far as Beckham goes, this incident could become a watershed, especially if he manages to bang in a goal on Saturday.

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

>>>Talking of characters, that bloke ITK seems to think Beckham deserves someone shouting out he hopes his kid dies of cancer. Nice people you have as fans...I expect ITK was at Highfield Rd last term<<<<

Lanky you thick tw@t.......why don't you go and practice with the basball bat.....it might just improve your eyesight.......first of all I have not said what you suggest above....and I resent the insinuation that I have..........what I AM saying is that if you put your head above the parapet then expect to get shot at.....and Beckham is so thick he doesn't just put his head over the parapet, he stand on top of the bloody thing and shouts how wonderful he is!

IF you read the postings, you will note that I clearly refered to the 'morons' who abused him........where is that construed as the support you are suggesting.....but I still stand by that fact that what he did was tantamount to incitement to riot.........and contrary to your belief, as far as I am aware there is not yet a law in this country that states we can not criticise Newton Heath players.

I would finally like to know what you mean by your reference to Highfield Road, cos if it is what I think you mean you had better be very careful as you would be skating on EXTREMELY thin ice.....and I might just be forced to forget everything I have said previously and start getting in some practice with a basball bat myself!

I won't at this point stoop into your gutter and use the kind of bad language associated with you, but please take notice of you own postings on other threads around here and......................

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

Hehehe....there's gonna be a scrap in the yard after school everyone....

Sorry.......just taking the mickey, i'm not taking sides or insinuating anything!! :))

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

Oi Gav, that bliddy Mickey you talk about taking.....he's nowt but a moose who hides behind the bike sheds......soft sod.

:0)

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

LR are you marooned on a desert island with nothing but a tv tuned to euro 2000 and a computer with a high speed modem?

if not why do you persist with posting such tedious drivel?

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2000

"RIOT"....yeah sure. When was the last time YOU felt the need to riot just cos a player gave ya the bird?

Highfield RD?...you know ....you know...and so do I...so DON'T talk to me about my language on here as though folk will be disturbed...didn't stop 2000 Geordies singing about about a town full of PAKIS did it.

-- Anonymous, June 15, 2000

Grazioli, Grazioli ole ole ole... Grazioli, Grazioli ole ole ole... Grazioli, Grazioli ole ole ole...

How is Maria these days LR?

-- Anonymous, June 15, 2000

Sheer poetry Gav ;-)

-- Anonymous, June 15, 2000

According to Blondie "she goes innnn annnd ooouuuttt oh hhiiiiss Liiiifffeeee, Maria......You gotta sssseeeeeeeee hhheeeeerrrr, dum de dum dedum"

Or something like that!

-- Anonymous, June 15, 2000

Jeeeeeez!! I got THAT on Anfailed.con this very morning. Anyone would think it was the best scam in the world and aonly I......blah blah blah

Can't wait for the real season to start...really give you lot hell...and I'll be in yer Strawberry again :-)

-- Anonymous, June 15, 2000

Bizarre but funny that you got it twice this morning ;))

-- Anonymous, June 15, 2000

LR

The coming season won't be anywhere near as bad as the last so we'll all be annoyingly happy! We'll still give you a tonking when you come to the Geordie Nou Camp :<}

-- Anonymous, June 15, 2000

Well what do you expect. Dacing Dickhead gets wound up and brings up Stuntmen, Cub Scouts and a bird called Maria.

I must have wound someone up already on here today...where's Jonno and ITK??? :-)

-- Anonymous, June 15, 2000

And waht about all of your K Stand, LR? Singing "town full of .." when you played Bradford? You'll deny it (of course) but I can e mail you a document from a high up in the mighty IMUSA whining about it. I'm not excusing us but remember you've got your share of tossers, too.

-- Anonymous, June 15, 2000

LR, don't think you'd managed to wind anyone up yet.....just thought I'd defuse it before you tried :))

I've a confession to make...I must be a racist cos I was taunting italians about waving white flags last night and on Monday I was taunting germans about having taches, mullets and birds with hairy armpits....Shall I send myself to jail?

-- Anonymous, June 15, 2000

That's fine Gav......I don't see that as racist. Ugly mugs, hairy pits and white flags is fair game. However...dogging some poor get just cos they're black, brown pink or blue is different :-)

Douggie..It didn't happen...not on the same scale anyway. The WHOLE of K stand is 10,000 odd.

-- Anonymous, June 15, 2000

So I must try harder if I want to be a real racist eh?

My tongue is firmly in cheek with that last comment!

-- Anonymous, June 15, 2000

What about the Irish, LR, I'm sure I've seen a rant or two aimed at the folk across the channel. That must make you a bad person. (c;

-- Anonymous, June 15, 2000

Tony,

So the Irish have invaded France have they? good on them!! I never though they'd have it in them!!

-- Anonymous, June 15, 2000

Tony...U have seen me rant at the Irish but I don't hate them....and anyway, they are the same race as us surely?

My Irish rantings stemmed from "most" people with feck all connections with Ireland going tits over St Patricks day...and this includes corporations, breweries, retailers etc as well as the Yanks!!

That ain't racist.

Put it this way...if I see anyone taking a slap because of their skin colour I dive in there. I hate racism. I don't mind winding the Jocks Irish or Welsh up tho'...and I don't particularly like the French independent of their colour. :-)

-- Anonymous, June 15, 2000

However, the very fact that you call the Scottish, 'Jocks' is surely a derogatory tag?

-- Anonymous, June 15, 2000

Is derogatory the same is racist? I think not....but I'm certain the politically correct brigade will point out i'm wrong...

-- Anonymous, June 15, 2000

Sod off Gav, I was off school the day we learned what that bit of water next to Ireland was called but I should've known better than to bluff it.
Is there an Irish Channel ? There should be it's a waste of a decent name if there isn't.

Anyway this racist thing is opening up a new can of worms, Newcastle has it's fair share of bigots, I remember the dour days when John Barnes came on as sub I overheard "1st darkie of the day we should throw a banana on the pitch" It wasn't shouted, it was one man talking to his friend and the pair of them started pissing themselves laughing. Now I know that comments like that belong back in the dark days but when you are brought up with a backdrop of comedies such as "Love thy Neighbour" & "till Death us do part" we should realise that it will not be flushed out overnight. However after the toon was branded racists for "Town full of Pakis" we know now that LR is Holier than Thou.

-- Anonymous, June 15, 2000

Only messing with ya Tony ;)) It's the Irish (radioactive) Sea anyway :))

Racism takes all sorts of shapes and forms....some of it even the fairly harmless (non-malicious) taunting that I do....I've quite a few friends that are asian or black and I'll quite often make a racist comment to them in jest....but it really is in jest and I know for a fact that is exactly the way it's taken....they give as good as they get believe me!! it could still be argued that it's racism and should be stopped but personally I don't believe we need to go that far...we need to stamp out racial hatred and institutional racism but not ignore or be afraid to remark on the differences we're born with....that's going too far in the opposite direction as far as I'm concerned...

-- Anonymous, June 15, 2000

Anyone remember what we were calling Dietmar at Anfield??? Had he lost his memory, he'd have learnt that he was a) Teutonic and b) illegitimate.

-- Anonymous, June 15, 2000

DB...calling the Scots, Jocks is not derogatory in my book....U should hear what I call them when I really wanna wind-em up. MAte, I have NO love for the Jocks in general...forget that my bessie mate is a Glaswegian (and me other is a Scouser!!!!). I used to live in Glasgow...I was in Glasgow during Italia 90'. I saw how they reacted to Stuart Pearce's direct indirect free kick (never seen ANYTHING like it before...and all over a disallowed goal). In general the "Scots" detest the English...I'm a proud man....they wanna play it like that so be it...I can too.

-- Anonymous, June 15, 2000

Fair enough LR, I thought it was peculiar when you called the Scottish, Jocks but you call the Welsh, Welsh and the Irish, Irish. All of the them like to see the English get beat for one reason or another.

I heard an interview on Radio 5 the other day with some Northern Irish and they said they would be supporting Germany on Saturday. I wondered is there a similar situation in Europe. For instance would the Spanish support anyone instead of the Portugese? What about Durch and the Belgians? I suppose it all depends on whether there is any history of conflict between them. I didn't do European history at school and as it doesn't interest me, my knowledge is poor on this subject.

-- Anonymous, June 15, 2000

In the old days mate :-) I used to support EVERY British team...that's NI, Wales, and Scotland....I don't give a hoot about the Republic of Ireland. Nowadays I still support the Welsh and The Ulstermen...but I stop at anything Jockanese...I've lived and worked there see...

-- Anonymous, June 15, 2000

This is the most tedious and immature thread I've read on here in quite some time. I think it's just dawned on me why I loathe the close season so much, especially when England are 'playing'.

There - that's my constructive contribution to the thread.

:o))

-- Anonymous, June 15, 2000