On my slow drive to work, listening to Radio 5, and hearing a right load of bollox ("just as Keegan found out at Newcastle, pretty football, and no defenders doesn't win games"). I started to think about what happens to squads/teams in international tournaments.

The team that has got the country through the qualification has players who have been around at least 2 years and probably 4 or 6. (I think new players are introduced after previous tournaments). This means the squad picked has a basis of experienced players who, in some cases, are passed their sell by date. England always blow their first game .... Portugal (and then Morocco) in 1986, this allowed Beardsley and Hodge to come in. Egypt in 1990, which pushed in Gazza and Mark Wright. Can't remember who in 98 but Owen benefited.

This time around it looks like Seaman, Adams and Ince have come to the end of their careers. It takes a big tournament and classy opposition to expose things, but now we all know for sure.

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2000

Answers

MacBeth

Had posted this on the England v Portugal thread.

Had this discussion with both my land lord (A died in the woll born and bred there Chelsea supporter), and the makem at the Oz v Paraguay match about the England squad.

A brief outline of both conversations was that England have the striking options (apart from munchkin - both would have had Cole, or even looked at Bridges), have Beckham and Scholes, but otherwise the rest of the squad is to old and slow now or just not good enough.

Both reckon that in four to six years time England will have an over abundance of midfield and striking options, and maybe just enough defenders and keepers. The problem is Keegan has to be given the time to slowly bring the young players in.

Oh and all three of us agreed that England wouldn't be able to handle the Portugese midfield and this would decide the game. And it did.

Pity that Keegan doesn't have Dyer, Lee Bowyer, and Frank Lampard to add to a midfield of Beckham, Scholes, Wise, Barmby and Macmanaman. Also pity that Rio Ferdinand, Gareth Barry and Jonathon Woodgate didn't make the squad in defence.

I know people will argue this is not the time to bring in a lot of young blood. I will say it is when it is the old blood who can be pointed out as the players who lost the game, becuase they lacked the pace and ability to defend or attack constructively.

I have been of the opinion for a while that the English media's view that England should beat the likes of Portugal etc. is way off as the Current England squad just doesn't have what it takes to win a major tournament.

Personally I reckon Australia could possibly beat England at the moment. The only position that concerns me with the Oz team is central defence. Yet Australia hasn't played a game where all its european based players have been available since early 1998. And since then we have a couple of new players to add to the team.

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2000

England may have looked average last night but they'd still tonk the Ozzies. Kewell is the best player they have but after that they have the untried Viduka, who'll struggle in the Prem if he makes it.

As for Lazaridis, he's/was a good 1st division player over here.

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2000

I heard that R5 comment this morning too. "Easier to entertain than to win" I think was the remark, patronising tosspots.

The Portugese journo they interviewed seemed pretty much on the ball. He said that England were poor defensively and allowed the Portugese time and space to play the game their way. Was it 16 passes before Scholes decided he didn't fancy defending anymore and chased the ball about rather than mark the danger men?

Incredibly Ince got a 8/10 in the Grauniad this morning, which I'm shocked by. His workrate was poor and so much for his 'defensive midfield' role. His one decent tackle was penalised (harsh 'cos he won the ball).

Adams looked knackered in the 2nd 1/4 of the game, but replacing him with Keown was never going to shore up the leaky and one paced back line. Campbell's positional play was about as good as mine, and a few rash challenges nearly got England in real trouble.

Seaman flapped early and seemed to have lead weights in his boots. Although Figo's goal was a belter, I thought he could have made a stab at diving for it, if only for appearance's sake.

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2000

Defence exposed by a poor midfield. So what happens now?

3-5-2 is out of the question due to the lack of quality wing backs so 4-4-2 it is. I would drop Seaman and give Martyn a chance, can't be any worse. Drop Adams as he clearly wasn't fit last night, cramp after an hour is not fit enough for International Football. Keown in who has good pace for a defender.

Keep Ince who was woefully short of support last night as in every attack three or four Portugese came running at him. Scholes must stay,as should Beckham. Barmby should come in on the left as he is in form, and like Martyn should be given a chance. Shearer and Owen stay. Shearer got through loads of work last night and although Owen was pretty poor he has one thing which England really lack, pace.

I bet Keegan was wishing he had taken Kieron Dyer last night.

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2000

It's all ifs and buts and hindsight now but maybe Shearer on his own with Scholes supporting and the addition of Barmby (or Wise) to support the midfield may have been the answer to the Portugese Midfield.

Anyway it's too late now. Roll on Germany!

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2000

Should make the team pick for Saturday interesting. I wonder if players like Gerrard and Barry will get a chance to play if it starts to look like England really have nothing to play for? They probably wouldn't do any worse than anyone else, and it would be good experience.

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2000

Its difficult to blame Keegan (apart from the fact that he didn't use his subs well). I thought the opposition were brilliant and to be fair 1-0 to us was completely against the run of play, let alone the travesty of justice that had us 2-0 up. Keegan has a team the spine of which will not play for England again after this tournament - Seaman, Adams, Ince and Shearer. But it is hard for him to drop them - even before the next match. I thought Ince and Shearer both played OK (esp the former). Lots of worries about the others - esp OWen who looked frankly unwell. With Fowler not fit it makes you hope for Keegan's sanity that Cole really was unwell. Next team Seaman Southgate Adams Keown Ince Wise Beckham Scoles, Barmby Shearer Phillips/Heskey

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2000

Adams and McManaman have been ruled out of the Germany clash.

I think Keegan will pick this lot:

Seaman, Neville, Keown, Campbell, Neville, Barmby, Scholes, Ince, Beckham, Shearer, Owen.

Personally: Martyn, Neville, Campbell, Keown, Barry, Barmby, Gerrard, Wise, Beckham, Shearer and Scholes.

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2000

convenient injury for Adams?

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2000

It's all so tedious; if you play experience through the spine of the team and we win, it's down to the industry and invaluable experience at the heart of our squad: if we play them and lose, it's because they are old, slow and tired and should have made way for younger players. Now the pressure is on for the youngsters to save us and it'll be: you can't play inexperienced players at the top level without being punished for it, why didn't KK pick Shearer, Adams, Ince and Seaman? Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah = Keegan is tactically inept whatever he does because everyone can always come up with something he should have done instead. Load of bollocks. If he wins on Saturday the praise will be grudging at best - the media filth have their knives out already: poor sod didn't get a chance.

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2000

Call me tactically naive, but I refuse to believe that Keegan's job is at threat over this.

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2000

He's got a harder job than his predecessors. The talent that is supposedly out there is all too young and he's be crucified for throwing them all in, besides there is no guarantee they'll perform on the world stage, what evidence is there to suggest they can...good premiership performances..don't think so!

He's making do with what he's got and it aint' chuffing much. As Ali G would say..REALISE!!

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2000

You are joking aren't you beardo?

As Softie said...the knives are out and when we lose on Saturday the public outcry for his head will be too much....lose 3 out of 3 (easily possible) and he's history...

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2000

I guess I am tactially naive, then.

No I seriously reckon that he will be there until WOrld Cup whatever happens. Not least because they can't replace him properly (until Fergie leaves Manure!). Unlike Le Hod, he seems to have the support of the players.

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2000

That's never stopped the press before has it :((

I agree totally that there is no-one else for this job....unless they start looking abroad which might not be a bad idea....

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2000

It hasn't stopped the press admittedly, but it has stopped the FA. Think of all the abuse Taylor or YBR got, but only Hod got the chop and that was because he became slightly unhinged. He may get criticised, but he will stay.

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2000

Like I have said prevoiusly, England simply don't have the squad right now to win as they have a number of aging players who have lost their pace, few top quality players full stop, very young players being blooded, and players who are creative.

That said try and pick an England squad for 5 years down the road, from todays national team and youngsters coming through and you have the makings of a top team.

Keepers: Richard Wright (Ipswich) and Nicky Weaver (Man. City).

Defenders: Wes Brown (Man. Utd. -RB), Seth Johnson (Derby -LB), Andy Griffin (Toon -R/LB), Rio Ferdinand (WHam -CH), Sol Campbell (Tottenham -CH), Johnathon Woodgate (Leeds -CH), Gareth Barry (Aston Villa -CH/LB).

Midfielders: David Beckham (RW), Pual Scholes (CM) Steven Gerrard (CM) Lee Bowyer (CM) Frank Lampard (CM) Kieron Dyer (RW/CM) Joe Cole (CM/LW) + one from either Mathew Etherington (Tottenham) or Michael Carrick (WHam) for the left wing spot.

Strikers: Robbie Fowler, Michael Owen, Emile Heskey, Carl Cort, Michael Bridges.

Plus there are likely to be other young talents likely to come through over the next 5 years, like Jermaine Pennant from Arsenal, Ledly King, Anthony Gardner and Luke Young from Tottenham, Cherno Samba where ever he is, or Jamie MacMaster from Leeds (even though he was stolen from Oz).

-- Anonymous, June 15, 2000

Like I have said prevoiusly, England simply don't have the squad right now to win as they have a number of aging players who have lost their pace, few top quality players full stop, very young players being blooded, and players who are creative.

That said try and pick an England squad for 5 years down the road, from todays national team and youngsters coming through and you have the makings of a top team.

Keepers: Richard Wright (Ipswich) and Nicky Weaver (Man. City).

Defenders: Wes Brown (Man. Utd. -RB), Seth Johnson (Derby -LB), Andy Griffin (Toon -R/LB), Rio Ferdinand (WHam -CH), Sol Campbell (Tottenham -CH), Johnathon Woodgate (Leeds -CH), Gareth Barry (Aston Villa -CH/LB).

Midfielders: David Beckham (RW), Pual Scholes (CM) Steven Gerrard (CM) Lee Bowyer (CM) Frank Lampard (CM) Kieron Dyer (RW/CM) Joe Cole (CM/LW) + one from either Mathew Etherington (Tottenham) or Michael Carrick (WHam) for the left wing spot.

Strikers: Robbie Fowler, Michael Owen, Emile Heskey, Carl Cort, Michael Bridges.

Plus there are likely to be other young talents likely to come through over the next 5 years, like Jermaine Pennant from Arsenal, Ledly King, Anthony Gardner and Luke Young from Tottenham, Cherno Samba where ever he is, or Jamie MacMaster from Leeds (even though he was stolen from Oz).

What you end up with is a team that could very good with some very creative players, and possibly strong accros the park, and all would be ready for the 2006 world cup.

-- Anonymous, June 15, 2000