Evenin` anyone around? What do you think?(:o)

-- Anonymous, June 12, 2000

Answers

Wonderful first half (particularly as I'd had a bet on a draw)

Second half a bit lame in comparison (particularly as I'd had a bet on a draw)

Think the subs were wrong. Heskey isn't Owen, Fowler may be. Wise isn't Mcmanaman, Barmby may be. We gave up two potential match winners for two very good Premiership players, not good enough. Keegan should follow hius instincts more.

Neville sisters had some awful moments.

-- Anonymous, June 12, 2000

bad errors at the back sick as a dog agree Macbeth - cannot see the point of Malta at all now - thought Barmby did well what to Joao Pinto? Headlines in the press - guess who'll get the blame- SHEAR HELL SHEAR RUBBISH

-- Anonymous, June 12, 2000

3-2.so depressed. Were we not very good or just unlucky? I saw the other game Germany v Romania and they were both crap. We are better than them and as good as if not better than most of the teams than I've seen so far. We must be must be able to beat Romania and Germany , all we need is a snippit of good fortuneWill we get it? Someone cheer me up

-- Anonymous, June 12, 2000

Rik - we were a tad unlucky, unlucky in that we forgot how to defend after going 2 up. It's a real 6 pointer against the Jormans now - beat them, hope Portugal beat Romania and draw the last game - should get us through. The Portuguese showed great spirit, but we should have killed the game off.
Better?

-- Anonymous, June 12, 2000

I don't think we were unlucky. I think we got exactly what we deserved which is nothing. The Portugese were good, very good, but only because we allowed them to be. Defence was too slow, good in the air but they beat us on the ground. No creativity at all from midfield, a couple of good crosses from Spice Boy, but not much else. I think Macmanamanamanman was injured but to replace him with mental midget wasn't smart, mind you KK did limit his options.

We just have to win the other two games now, nothing more, nothing less. Bring on the Jormans.

-- Anonymous, June 12, 2000

Very good game of football, and in the end we were imply beaten by a better side with more gifted players.
It's difficult to assess how we might have done better when watching on TV, but the main problem seemed to be that we gave them too much room in midfield. Ince was criticised by Wor Bobby on ITV, but to be honest he always seemed to have two men to pick up. I think the main problem was that we were outnumbered 5 to 4 in midfield, and three of our four in m/f were pretty lightweight anyway. With a lot of space for their talented midfield to play in they were able to pick off our back four, who were consequently made to look pretty poor.
I thought Scholes was our MOTM, and also thought McManaman did OK. Beckham made both our goals superbly, but when we needed craft, guile and especially spirit in the 2nd half I thought he disappeared.
KK has taken some criticism for his substitutions, but this is a little harsh and based purely on hindsight. Barmby might have been a better choice than Ernie, but at the time he came on we couldn't get the ball from Portugal and I'm sure that was foremost in KK's mind. I actually feel Barmby would have been a better replacement for Owen than Heskey, who was utterly useless, and would have supplemented the midfield.
Very disappointing, especially after the start, but we were beaten by a better side.
It's not all over yet if KK can lift the spirits again - Germany looked a very average team today, and I also think we could beat Roumania. All to play for.....

-- Anonymous, June 12, 2000

I think Heskey showed he isn't international class yet on that display - only 3 shouts of "couldn't trap a bag of cement" in the pub though.

-- Anonymous, June 12, 2000

Could England possibly have allowed Portugal any more space? Wait, don't answer that. ;-)
Agree, Portugal were definitely the better side. I was also thinking that if they stay on that form they'll win the tournament.

-- Anonymous, June 12, 2000

It's obvious that the flat back four didn't really work either, I was disappointd with Sol who seemed to be caught flat everytime. Also Ince wasn't in the game but that was hardly surprising with three attacking midfielders in the team.

Also, I think th last time I saw a team win so many corners and important throw ins and ot use them was erm us in the Keegan days. Don't they practice them???
On a nother note, it was disappointing to see all of the players we've been linked with have good games. I think their price is going to rise and rise and rise etc...

-- Anonymous, June 12, 2000

Regarding our transfer targets, we're reported to have lodged a #3mm bid for the Portugese player who scored their 2nd goal tonight - Joao Pinto. We've offered him a three year contract, but he's apparently holding out for four years.

-- Anonymous, June 12, 2000

Mellor was giving Big Al some stick on Radio 5 tonight so I emailed him a question - "If Shearer had played tonight with the Portugese midfield behind him instead of the England one, do you think you would have been criticising his performance?" Needless to say he never read it out!

-- Anonymous, June 12, 2000

KK is getting post-match stick for playing 4-4-2 and getting outnumbered in m/f. However, what else could he have done? We just don't have the players to play 3-2-3-2 - either the WB's or the CB's who would be comfortable in that system.
Portugal appeared to play 4-5-1, and with hindsight this may have been better for us also, with Barmby playing behind AS instead of playing Owen up front alongside Alan.
This is all fine and dandy, but the problem is KK didn't know in advance that Portugal were going to play 5 in m/f - presumably expecting Gomes and Pinto to play up front.
The thing that always surprises me is the inability of teams to adjust to the opposition tactics - usually until HT. Given the players we had on the field I'm not sure we could have done much to adjust anyway, and I guess the Portugal coach simply out-thought KK, knowing he intended to play two upfront and a flat back four. Game, set & match!

-- Anonymous, June 12, 2000

What a fantastic night. Birthday drinks and canapes chez Pilgrim after a tortous bike (yes, that's right!) ride to his place. Settled doon with a fridge full of beer and snacks to feed the five thousand.

And what a start to the match. 2-0 up in less than 20 minutes. But I didn't feel comfortable (and it wasn't the cycling shorts). Even before they scored, we could have been a couple down, if you get my drift. They squandered a number of chances.

It's oh so easy in retrospect, but at 2-0 we looked as tho we were going to walk it - and I think that's what the players thought too. Sadly, Portugal didn't agree and in the end, they deserved their victory. This result reminded me of a few before. Anyone remember Anfield, 4-3?

Now, I don't know whether it is KK to blame or the players on the park. It's easy to say we were outnumbered and outplayed in midfield. So what should KK have done? Played 3 at the back or sacrificed an attacker (let's face it, Owen was cr@p and Shearer little better)? Ince was ineffectual, but Clarky makes a good point in saying he was outnumbered.

At least there was one success. I managed to ride the bike back along the canal in the dark without falling off. I only wish the England defence had performed as well as me. Bah!

-- Anonymous, June 12, 2000

Had this discussion with both my land lord (A died in the woll born and bred there Chelsea supporter), and the makem at the Oz v Paraguay match about the England squad.

A brief outline of both conversations was that England have the striking options (apart from munchkin - both would have had Cole, or even looked at Bridges), have Beckham and Scholes, but otherwise the rest of the squad is to old and slow now or just not good enough.

Both reckon that in four to six years time England will have an over abundance of midfield and striking options, and maybe just enough defenders and keepers. The problem is Keegan has to be given the time to slowly bring the young players in.

Oh and all three of us agreed that England wouldn't be able to handle the Portugese midfield and this would decide the game. And it did.

Pity that Keegan doesn't have Dyer, Lee Bowyer, and Frank Lampard to add to a midfield of Beckham, Scholes, Wise, Barmby and Macmanaman. Also pity that Rio Ferdinand, Gareth Barry and Jonathon Woodgate didn't make the squad in defence.

I know people will argue this is not the time to bring in a lot of young blood. I will say it is when it is the old blood who can be pointed out as the players who lost the game, becuase they lacked the pace and ability to defend or attack constructively.

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2000

Having started this thread - I was too busy crying in my wine to post last night. However, I`m feeling much better today, though I won`t be reading the papers! I think Portugal are the strongest team in our group - and showed huge amounts of talent and skill in that game. If we could have held it to a two all draw, we would have been proud of our boys, and to be fair, it was one goal that turned them into villians not heroes.

Maca`s injury didn`t help, he was causing them problems. I agreeded with bringing Wise on - their play in midfield was what demolished us. I cannot agree with him bringing Heskey on - I don`t rate him at all. Owen just wasn`t big and strong enough, but I think Fowler would have been a better option, and contrary to popular opinion, I thing Phillips should have had more practice playing alongside Big Al before the tournement. I`d have been happy seeing our two top scorers out there.

Still, it ain`t over yet. (:o) Yep! That`s me smiling again!

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2000

Correction: I didn`t `agreeded`, actually, I only `agreed`! I have a small, but nevertheless painful, hangover! (:o)

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2000

Excellent match and I really enjoyed it! I'd have liked England to win but the entertainment was superb.

A few comments/opinions:

Beckham had a great game only a couple of duff passes and he didn't hide when Portugal had the ball.

Shearer worked well in the first half but I have to say he was as mobile as a dustbin (without wheels Mr. Pit!) in the second. He didn't look up for it. I know the midfield disappeared but that's no excuse.

Someone tell me why McM..... is allowed to wear an England shirt?

defence will be heavily criticised but it started in the midfield. We backed off and let them play. They must have been delighted! Did Ince tackle anyone in the first half?

Anyho.... a terrific game and a deserved win for Portugal. No complaints....... well just one.... if that Scholes chap hadn't headed that ball in, it would have fallen for Al to bury a volley... and we'd have gone on to win the competition.... ;-)))

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2000

Joao Pinto looked lively, a snip at 3 mil, having said that he should have buried the back post headed chance. He got one goal & I think one disallowed which cannot be bad.

I think we were lucky to go 2 - 0 up last night, but having gotten in that position should have maintained it. Trouble is our passing is not up to scratch, we gave the ball away too cheaply and put oursleves under unecessary pressure, apart from that Portugal looked a far better footballing side. I am not sure about the subs because even if KK was keeping the same shape with like for like subs, our lead always looked threatened & we had just as many chances with Heskey & Wise in the fray.

Of course we could always just blame Shearer for missing allof his chances.

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2000

A workman-like side can beat a technically brilliant side by working harder, but if the technically brilliant side work hard as well, they should always win. Bottom line was that portugal were sh*t-hot. We ran out of ideas. Got sick and tired of all those floated, hanging passes that should have been driven along the deck, crisp and sharp.

I watched the game with Jonno and we both found the first half hour decidedly uncomfortable because it was like watching us a few seasons back. Should have been ready for it to fall apart really. Incidentally, why isn't there a mute button that just cuts out the commentary?

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2000

Oliver Holt lays into Shearer again in the Times this morning. Obviously fails to comment on the performance of the other two strikers we saw.

My own opinion is that we played well, and at least continued to make chances. But Ince on his own couldn't provide the defence with enough cover, and let's face it, they played very well Portugal, and their movement and pace was a delight (well, to a neutral perhaps). They had the beating of our offside trap and were unlucky not to have two more goals. Their suspect finishing couldn't be further from the truth, though, and it was one of those nights when you felt everything would go in.

Major obstacle to progress now is the press, full of unhelpful hindsight and point-scoring prejudices. I don't mind reading harsh truths, but the truth element seems to be the least important aspect in their eyes.

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2000

My husband, who hates football, and couldn`t give a tinker`s cuss about Shearer, watched the game with me last night, and observed that we would have lost by more if it hadn`t been for Shearer`s assistance in defending the corners.

He can`t win with the press. If he stays up front just hanging around waiting to be served - he`s lazy. If he drops back to the midfield to shore it up, or hold up play, or if he drops back further to supplement the defenders, he`s moaned at for not getting forward enough! We all know he`s always going to be on a hiding to nothing with the press, and Beckham is coming a close second in that respect too. B@ll@cks to the lot of them! (:o|

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2000

Extraordinary moment last night when one of the Nevilles had vanished and Shearer appeared at left back to clear the danger. Owen lost the ball and the camera swung back to find Shearer up in the Portuguese half: must have used a teletransporter as we all know he has no pace and just stood around all night.

Enjoyed Bobby's analysis after the game - all of them deferred to him as well they should - when he said that Portugal defended well. Glenda then reckoned that they didn't defend well and then had to watch clip after clip of England shots cleared off the line, England players being crowded off the ball at the far post during corners etc, Bobby, ever the gent, didn't rub it in, but you could see the slow mind-worms crawling behind Hoddle's eyes as he wished he hadn't said that :-)

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2000

Even before we scored our two goals I was worried - very worried. The difference in footballing ability - technique and intelligence i.e. class, was very apparent and very dispiriting. It is astounding that our so called world class player Beckham could even be compared with Figo or Rui Costa.
We will not win this or any other tournament as we do not have the midfield to create chances or even compete with the likes of France, Italy, Portugal. Be thankful that we even got to this stage and don't expect anything else than perhaps scraping through to the next stage.


-- Anonymous, June 13, 2000

Half agree with you True - I wasn't expecting much out of England in this tourno. But there isn't much between a lot of the sides in Europe. Portugal on last night's performance must be up there with the best (but I suspect that they aren't that consistent and on other nights might struggle to put the ball in the back of the net despite lots of possession and fancy footwork. On a better day, we could have beaten them, but I don't think we should expect to beat them. Same goes for Germany and Romania.

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2000

Spot on True!

Why do we get so disappointed when England don't perform in these tournaments? it's not a god given right for us to do well, we have to have the players to perform well at this level and quite frankly we don't...

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2000

A great match - shame about the result... However, I can't quite agree with some of you guys about fabulous technical ability being a prerequisite for international football. Watching the Germany game yesterday it was obvious that Romania had the greater technical ability but Germany has the better tactical vision. Apart from the farcical state of Germany's defenders (couldn't outpace a snail) they were far the better side. Our problem yesterday was that we had the vision going forwards but not in defence. Nor did we have the tactical sense to switch systems (by pushing a defender into midfield to assist Ince).

Seaman: Not a bad game at all for him - he flapped at one corner but he made a good save later. Phil Neville: What is the point of playing 4-4-2 if your full backs don't stop crosses into the box? Tony Adams: At fault for 2 of their goals, wasn't good enough coming out of defence Sol Campbell: Needed to be in 2 places at the same time - helping the midfield out AND being the last man because of his pace. Gary Neville: A reasonably good game for him, Portugal didn't exploit our right even when Beckham dropped inside. MacManaman: Always a danger when going forward, unfortunately always a danger when defending. He continuously played Portugal onside in defence. Probably finding it hard to play in a 4-4-2 when his club play 3-5-2. Scholes: Good goal, got himself into good positions, ran around after the ball when Ince could have done with some support in midfield. Ince: Impossible to really say how his game was. He had no support in midfield from Scholes. Beckham: A really good game for him. He never hid, supplied 2 great crosses but lost his effectiveness 'cos he had to drop inside to assist Ince. Owen: Indifferent, Portugal couldn't afford to let him get away so there was always someone on him. However, he lost the ball too much. Shearer: Indifferent, he held the ball up well but failed to trouble their defenders.

In addition, with the exception of Beckham and Campbell, I thought the Portugal side looked hungrier, more confident (even when 2 goals down) and with more faith in their teammates and tactics than England. It was this rather than any technical ability which really undermined England.

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2000

Disappointing result but after watching Germany and Romania I feel we will advance and perhaps meet Portugal again. By then maybe Figo will develop some illness and we will have a better chance. Otherwise we could hire Stam and the italian ref to visit him in his hotel and scare the shit out of him.

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2000