Since it's Memorial Day, I'm reminded of Vietnam Vets returning to be called "Baby Killers." Although I disagreed with the Vietnam War, when I heard that label being applied to men who never asked to engage in this embarrassing war, I said, "This is just not RIGHT."

When I've heard of children [usually teens] reference their parents in a disrespectful way, I've said, "This is just not RIGHT." Our parents do a lot of things we don't like, but their position as authority figures in our lives should not be dismissed because they made mistakes.

When I've heard people refer to policemen as "Pigs", I've said, "This is just not RIGHT." For every policeman that does something wrong, there are tons of others who do things right. The position granted to authority figures should NOT, IMO, be dismissed via disrespectful rhetoric.

Most of these terms of disrespect originate in fringe groups. Amazingly, they are parroted by ordinary people who share a portion of the frustration of the fringe groups, but ordinarily respect people and their positions. The most recent to surface are terms like Klinton, Klintoon, and Kalifornia. Much like the protestors of the Vietnam War labeled returning Vietnam vets "Baby Killers", the folks who use these terms feel they're making a political statement with every use of the term. I'm tired of hearing the terms. They just aren't RIGHT. One can disapprove of a war, a president, parents, the practices of a state, practices of a policeman, etc., but, IMO, when one uses rhetoric initiated by a fringe group, the words used should identify one with the fringe group, which is typically a group so out of touch with reality that their only recourse is to hate anyone in authority.

That ends MY Memorial Day rant.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), May 29, 2000

Answers

Amen, Anita. Very well-said.

-- Patricia (PatriciaS@lasvegas.com), May 29, 2000.

When I was raised I was taught "respect your elders" and the older I get, the more value I see in that! LOL!! :-)

Seriously though, I noticed the biggest decline in this type of respect started during the 80's Reagan-Yuppie years. The yuppies at that time were so obsessed with the pursuit of money that they did not spend enough time teaching their kids to respect others. Instead they hired nannies to watch their kids while they were working, and spoiled their children because of the guilt they felt for the lack of "quality time" they spent with them. As much as I enjoyed shows like "The Simpsons" and "Married with Children", I think allowing young children to watch these at such a young impressionable age also helped to foster this lack of respect mentality, and the parents were too tired to care.

-- Hawk (flyin@hi.again), May 29, 2000.

Anita,

Christianity began as a "fringe" group. Our Republic was founded by "radicals" from the fringe. (in comparison to what most British subjects at the time felt)

This is how change happens.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), May 29, 2000.

Anita, ya gotta stay off of EZBoard. Look what its done to ya. ;^)

Have a sip of wine, or a toke or something. A mother's little helper perhaps?

Mebbe Flint will offer to take you target shooting. Though I'd keep quiet about fringe groups while there.

Even better, click on the new thread I just posted. Scroll down 2/3 of the way & have a good, long laugh.

Seriously, I hate reading Klinton & the like but I'd rather know these folks are out there.

Case in point: After a few years of living in rural NC I began to realize who the racists were. It took so long because they kept their mouths shut tight. Nothing was said overtly.

Best,

-- Bingo1 (howe9@shentel.net), May 29, 2000.

A small irony. In my memory, the use of the letter K instead of C to imply German fascism (Naziism) among one's political enemies started with the student Left in the 60s (remember "Amerika"?). Now it is used by right wingers for Klinton, etc. Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), May 29, 2000.

Bingo,

Is there a party goin' on? damn, Anita gets to have all the FUN,ok,her and Lilith; )

Anita,

Authority IMO should allways be questioned,scrutinized,held accountable and challenged.But then again I'm somewhat of an anarchist and radical libertarian.Less authority=more freedom and less of a chance for the breeding of corrupt elitest,that think they know better than we about running our lives.

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), May 29, 2000.

Capn, I completely agree that authority needs to be questioned and challenged at every step of the way. But there must be genuine, valid questioning; not disrespect simply BECAUSE they are "authority".

I have to go along with Hawk here.....only I think it started in the 1970s. I used to do a lot of babysitting when I was in HS, mainly for those people who had "grown up" out of the '60s and were beginning to be the "nouveau riche". They bought up the brownstones and renovated them. They had the requisite 2.3 children, all properly schooled in Montessori-type academies; they had the requisite Golden Retriever; and the summer house in the Hamptons. Their kids were never actually allowed to be children.

These were the "brattiest" kids I've ever had the displeasure of dealing with. They had ZERO respect for their "elders", ZERO respect for their parents. They were coddled under the guise of "allowing them to grow". Bullshit. These kids needed discipline but what they got was expensive schooling. They needed life lessons but what they got was book smarts. They needed to learn a little humility but what they got was an unfounded lesson in superiority. They needed to learn to work for what they wanted but what they got was Mommy and Daddy getting their sorry little asses out of trouble at every turn; Mommy and Daddy buying them anything (and I do mean ANYTHING) the little brats whined for.

They needed to learn to accept responsibility for their actions, but what they got was Mommy and Daddy explaining how bad ALL authority was and somehow that related to "it's not your fault, dear".

That's what's wrong with "society". No one takes responsibility for themselves. Until that is re-learned, nothing's going to change.

[uh, off soapbox now]

-- Patricia (PatriciaS@lasvegas.com), May 29, 2000.

The Vets presumably had no choice when they were drafted, whatever they did is the responsibility of the decision made by the Govt elite, that at the time was the Democratic Party of LBJ or whoever was behind the asassination of JFK all wars are caused by politicians and the people whose support they whip up by propaganda

-- richard (richard.dale@onion.com), May 29, 2000.

When I was raised I was taught "respect your elders" and the older I get, the more value I see in that! LOL!! :-) Seriously though, I noticed the biggest decline in this type of respect started during the 80's Reagan-Yuppie years. -Hawk

I've recently thought about something along this line and the thing that came to mind was the fact that I remember my parents and my grandparents saying virtually the same thing... "Kids these days! or "When I was a kid, blah, blah, blah". I dunno. I'm starting to believe that every adult since caveman days has said basically the same thing about the younger generation. I'm starting to believe that criticizing the respect shown by the younger generation must somehow "come with the territory" as we age.

-- CD (costavike@hotmail.com), May 29, 2000.

Patricia,

I couldn't agree more wloleheartedly with yours and Hawks take on the kids lack of respect and the negative ramifications that ensue from such an upbringing.I have to chuckle though about the rude awakening these kids get when they are finally introduced to the real world,learning that their coddled asses don't mean shit and all the whining in the world will not fix their problems,as I have seen this 1st hand and LMAO.I also agree that this is a major factor regarding the ills of our society.

However,when anyone puts themselves in the position of authority they are wide open to be scrutinized to hell and back and are held to a higher standard accordingly.Authority must be questioned to the Nth degree,without this scrutiny the PTB will run rampant as power corrupts absolutely except for the truly good of heart.

One prime example of the silver spoon children you related to is Al Gore,allthough touted as a Tennessean he is nothing but a product of the Montessorial (?) elite,he could no more relate to the real people of TN than he could a tribe in Zimbabwe,because he is not of this culture,he is from the Washington culture.Now he makes himself out to be a good ol' boy from TN,that is bullshit and I have to question/ scrutinize what is plainly not the truth.

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), May 29, 2000.

"No one takes responsibility for themselves. Until that is re- learned, nothing's going to change."

Patricia,

Amen! So many people claim to be a "victim". Problem is that we can't change past actions - we can only change our present actions and plan for the future. It's time for people to grow up and stop living on autopilot, stop blaming others for their present actions. Sure, being on auto is easy, but it's not reality, it is dysfunctional. Time for reality and time to grow up...

-- Deb M. (vmcclell@columbus.rr.com), May 29, 2000.

hey anita and all:

Capn: you are supposed to be having 'fun' are you not? Back to your bubble filled hot tub.....LOL...

Agree too w/the Hawk...perhaps a REMEMBER WHEN thread is in order?

Nahh, then our age will really show :-)

But I do remember when it was quite ok for uncle henry, and uncle joker (yes we did call him that) were allowed to 'help us out w/respect and NOT a word from my parents was spoken...

BTW, we addressed them as Uncle Aunt back then or ELSE!!!

I've taught my sons the same, I better never catch them saying Edna w/out the Aunt first. RESPECT.

(now i may sound real dumb here but can someone tell me what Klintoon is supposed to mean? Isnt it just a fun name for the president? oh well, if not, now ya'll really know how dumb i am......)

-- consumer (shh@aol.com), May 29, 2000.

I think you're right CD, it seems every new generation wants to "push the envelope" in terms of the amount of "leeway" they should get. In their desire for independence, they want to do things that their parents never did, even if these things are non-constructive or even self-destructive. As I see so many young girls having babies in their teens, it seems like this new generation is growing into dependence on government assistance, and they will eventually allow government to take complete control of their lives. Should be interesting to see what is next.. perhaps genetically engineered test-tube babies, specifically designed to fill the needs of the government? Probably not as far off as it might seem!

-- Hawk (flyin@hi.again), May 29, 2000.

Capn, we're not really disagreeing here, but I guess I didn't explain myself very well.

The problem I was trying to convey was that these people (who I believe were, at least at the time, quite indicative of the general "feeling" in the "air") never taught their children respect for ANYONE, especially anyone in "authority", simply because said people WERE "authority". Many of these kids ultimately turned into the "greed is good" and "me, myself and I" generation of the '80s. Coincidence? I don't think so.

Such people as you mention (i.e., "TPTB") DO have to be held to higher standards; but until they show otherwise, it is my opinion that they deserve a certain amount of respect; at the very least, it should begin on an even playing field; a clean slate, if you will. Yes, respect has to be earned, but it should not be withheld simply because of their position of "authority".

There are "bad eggs" in every profession, whether they be politicians, cops, military personnel, whatever. But for every bad egg, there are dozens more good eggs. Unfortunately you never hear about them because it just ain't NEWS. Too bad really; those are the kind of "news stories" we need more of, not less.

Hope you all had a great holiday weekend!

-- Patricia (PatriciaS@lasvegas.com), May 29, 2000.

Anita, Elian Gonzalez was frequently referred to by the DOJ and INS as an "illegal alien". Any problems with THIS terminology? Personally, I prefer "child";)

-- FactFinder (FactFinder@bzn.com), May 29, 2000.

Anita,

I think there's a big difference between calling cops "pigs" and calling President Clinton "Klintoon". In the first, you are claiming that ALL police are bad for whatever the reason, when in fact you really don't know whether an individual policeman is good or bad.

With Klintoon, no one is ridiculing the *office* of the Presidency, or saying that every president is a felon, this is rather a *personal* insult against a man based on his actions (whether real or perceived).

I agree that one shouldn't disrespect the police or vets based on their association with doing their duty, but the bed Klinton has made he can "lie" in.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), May 30, 2000.