A couple of days ago I was in a camera store (Habersin Camera, Miami, Fl.) that was going out of business and selling all inventory at rock bottom prices. After over 60 years in business, there were tons of used items for sale.

On a shelf I saw two Leica M bodies. One was a black M4-P body (which showed signs of having been painted sometime during its lifetime). The second was a chrome M2 body, which was being sold as a unit, along with a Leica meter, and a 90mm f2.0 Summicron-M lens (which seemed newer than the rest of the stuff, and was in surprisingly good shape). I'm sorry, hardcore Leicaphiles, I did not note the serial numbers of these pieces.

I carefully inspected both cameras. Both bodies showed considerable signs of wear, yet they were both functioning well--the shutter speeds all seemed about right, the viewfinders were pretty clear, and the rest of the mechanics were doing what they are supposed to do. Naturally, they both had numerous scratches and nicks, though no real dents or other visible signs of having been through a war, run over by a truck, or other similar Leica torture.

I'm sure someone more expert in Leica M bodies could find lots of potential problems, but, to my untrained eye/hands, they seemed like "good users". In short, I've seen much better, but I've seen worse.

The store owner was asking $495. for the M4-p, and $1000. for the M2/lens/meter. I'm thinking he'd probably come down some more, and maybe split the M2/lens/meter combo.

QUESTION: (yeah, I'm finally getting there...) At what point do functioning, rough "user" Leica M bodies bottom out in price? What's the cheapest price any of you have seen for a still functioning M body? Is there an commonly accepted price point below which any reasonably well-functioning M body would never drop?

I'm not thinking of buying these things, I'm just curious to see others' thoughts on this pricing issue. Thanks, Sergio.

-- Sergio Ortega (s.ortega@worldnet.att.net), May 28, 2000

Answers

The M4-P is running on the low end probably due to its signs of wear. A good deal for anyone wanting to step into the Leica way. $495 for an M4-P is about the cheapest I've seen. Normally good user models run $800-$1000 in the ads. Not sure about the M2/lens/meter, but I'm thinking that's low again due to the wear. For $1500 bucks I think it's a steal and I would probably have grabbed both of them.

-- Tony Rowlett (rowlett@alaska.net), May 28, 2000.

Well, I expect that it's about $600. That $500 body probably needs a $150+ overhaul. You can never tell, however, occasionally you can run across a bargain.

This current prosperity has caused Leica Ms to skyrocket in price. Bang for the buck they are terrible, but then you can almost always recover your cost when you go to sell them. Try that with a Nikon F5!.

-- Tom Bryant (tbryant@wizard.net), May 29, 2000.

The M4-p is at a good price as long as the wear is cosmetic. Do a CLA at 125-175 and you've

1) got a camera that's as good as any Leica in terms of handling, but for the absence of a meter, ala M6.

2) That you can use hard for the rest of your life, in all likelihood.

Oh, I see you're not looking to buy.

The lowest prices for clean functioning Leicas have been in the $600 range. So the M$ is at a good price. Dunno about the M2-prices seem to vary widely by condition. But again $500-600 is about the floor for any M series Leica, with typical prices being in the $800-1200 range, for clean functioning examples. I've not paid much attention to the screwmounts or 'flexes.

-- Mani Sitaraman (bindumani@pacific.net.sg), May 29, 2000.

I agree with the others, the M4-P and M4-2 are the least desirable - but usually a user will still cost you $800+, so the $495 was a good deal. I would certainly have bought it. The $1000 for the M2 seems a deal to me too as M2 users are usually around $900-1000. Of course it depends whether it had the self timer and the preview switch (or even the "button" rewind). If no st and ps then it might be less than $900 if it is in terrible condition - but you were getting a Summicron too!

-- Robin Smith (rsmith@springer-ny.com), May 31, 2000.

Thanks to all who responded, I really appreciate your input and comments.

I went back, but did not buy either camera; I already have two M6s. Now if I could have found a newer 21 SA.....

I did end up buying a new El-Nikkor 105 5.6 for just over a $100., a couple of 39mm Leitz filters for $6. each, and a chrome Rollei Bay II hinged lens cap for $15.

Thanks again, Sergio.

-- Sergio Ortega (s.ortega@worldnet.att.net), May 31, 2000.

I haven't kept up with Leica prices. I looked the other day and was astounded. About 10 or 15 years ago I bought a used one. It was an M-3DS made in the late 50's. It looked nearly unused and came in the original box, etc. With a one year old Black 50 f2 [German], it set me back $500. I also got a year old 90 f2.8 for $500. Both were sold on consignment from the same person [Someone that I knew]. I have used it heavily over those years and it is still like new. Amazing where the prices have gone.

Best wishes,,

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), June 02, 2000.

Though very late after the last previous answer I'd like to contribute something I read in Shutterbug a couple of years ago and which has been useful for me since then and which could be helpful for someone else reading the thread, I hope. Otha C. Spencer cited McKeown's law: "The price of an antique camera is entirely dependent upon the moods of the buyer and seller at the time of the transaction" Plus "three corolaries which must always be taken into account: (1) If you pass up a chance to buy a camera you really want, you will never have that chance again (2) If you buy a camera because you know you will never have that chance again, a better example of the same camera will be offered to you a week later for a much lower price (3) The intrinsic value of an antique or classic camera is directly proportional to the owner's certainty that someone else wants it". Otha also informed about the existence of McKeown's "Price Guide to Antique & Classic Cameras" (ISBN 0-931838-21-5)now in its 10th edition. I have never seen the book but Otha's article (Shutterbug March 1998) has been very helpful for me in my dealings for photo equipment since I read it. In fact, I still think that McKweon's Law and corollaries are the wisdom itself. Regards Iván

-- Ivan Barrientos (ingenieria@simltda.tie.cl), May 07, 2001.