Anyone with expertise in this field? Getting ready to buy/build a house and am looking at different options.Is Geo Thermal worth it or is the standard heating/cooling method preferrable?

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), May 26, 2000

Answers

Geothermal - Are you using this term to mean ground water source heat pump? Because geothermal involves utilizing heat from steam deep below the surface, small scale power plants. Unless you are living on a geyser I guess not.

Ground water source heat pumps can give you efficient performance. Ground water at 52F is your heat source, so there is less reliance on supplemental heat, which is usually electric resistance and that is the big drawback to traditional air source heat pumps. With the air to air, once it hits 40 outside you are running an electric furnace - not the greatest for your electric bill. The decision to go ground water all comes down to your contractor, if he is experienced and reliable you are golden. If he is not doing ground water heat pumps all the time forget it. Also check local codes for any restrictions on discharging the source water back into the ground.

Or you may be referring to creating your own closed loop system with the plastic tubing buried in the ground. Is this the option? Let me know.

The biggest knock on heat pumps of all kinds is the comfort factor, many people prefer hot radiators or baseboard - they move into a condo with new and efficient heat pumps and hate the forced warm air. An efficient hot water boiler at the center of a radiant system is considered state of the art for new construction here in the Philly suburbs. Give me some info and I will give you my opinion.

QuietMan

-- QuioetMan (quietjohn2k@hotmail.com), May 26, 2000.

QuietMan,

Thanks for the reply.The system I have heard the most about is the closed loop and had thought about supplementing the system with solar. Hopefully this will be installed in a log home.A wood stove will also be used.

Any other suggestions?

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), May 26, 2000.

Hottub. a MUST have....(eg)

-- consumer (shh@aol.com), May 26, 2000.

Sumer!!!

Now why in the world didn't it surprise me you said that,LOL!!! But you can bet your jets that my jets will be the kind that come equipped with a strap in harness and a turbine driven jet system : ) I guess if times got bad I could allways invert the jets and make the tub a boat,make my way down river to the gulf and head for the tropics,maybe have some FUN along the way!!!

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), May 27, 2000.

If I ever lost my mind and decided to move to a colder clime I would go for radiant floor heating.

I did some time as a tilesetter when I lived near Philly. One job was removing carpets from, and installing tile in, a room heated this way. Once the job was complete the owner turned on the heat to see what the difference was, and I was simply amazed at what a great job this system did heating the room. Not to mention how wonderful it felt on my stocking feet, nice and toasty.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), May 27, 2000.

Hit submit too fast.

The thing that made this system work so nicely was that the addition heated this way was concrete slab construction. Combined with the tile flooring it was very effective due to the fact that these materials are good conductors of heat. Wood subflooring would decrease that a bit, due to it's insulating property. If you were stuck using wood framing because you were building over a basement, it would be best to install the heating tubes in a mud bed on top of the subfloor, then tile over that.

Just some thoughts.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), May 27, 2000.

I'd be careful about that capn, if you dig down too far your house might turn into a volcano! :-) Try wind and solar, it's safer.

-- Hawk (flyin@hi.again), May 27, 2000.

capn,

I've been considering going solar (once I buy some land), and have started doing some research. I've bought a few books, and have also found a few magazines, which might help you reach a decision:

1. If you can still find one, try to pick up the May/June 2000 issue of the "backwoods Home" magazine - which has a few articles about Solar Building design (not to mention solar-powered well-pumps, etc...).

2. One other magazine, which you might find VERY helpful is "Home Power" magazine. It has articles about hydropower, wind-power, etc...

I've done just a little research, but what I've heard the most is that GOOD insulation (6" thick walls), double-paned windows, etc... are just as efficient at saving energy as using solar. Whether that's true or not, you make the call (follow the money).

Hope this helps & good luck!

-- Deb M. (vmcclell@columbus.rr.com), May 27, 2000.

Deb M:

It depends on where you live. These are site specific decisions. Talk to someone in your area. I went through this when we built our home in 1990. I tested solar [in a way]. I bought a very expensive accent light that was solar powered [the best; I think $100 for a 4w light; reported to be the best]. I put it in a clear place in the front of the house. I found that it didn't work in the winter and that it did in the summer. Lots of clouds. Not good. Our house is designed to provide passive solar heating and it works well. Three stories of glass on the east.

Radiant heat. Have lots of relatives in the San Juans. Works well there. Of course a cold day is 35 F. Doesn't work when the temperature drops. At -35 F here I wouldn't want it. Also, leaves no way to remove moisture when the temperature is high and so is the humidity. Depends on where you live.

Did you know that they have electricity and internet connections in Iowa? :) Amazing.

Best wi

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), May 27, 2000.

Z,

Thanks for the info - I don't have any first-hand solar usage experience, just what I've been researching. Coming from Ohio, I'm looking for the best way possible to use solar/passive energy. It looks like I've got a ways to go yet.

BTW, do you know approx. how much per square foot it costs to go solar? One article I read quoted it at $75 per square foot to build a solar house - do you think that's accurate? How does that compare to building a non-solar house?

Thx!

-- Deb M. (vmcclell@columbus.rr.com), May 28, 2000.

Deb M:

To be honest, I don't know the cost per square foot [by the way my cost estimates are from 1990]. Where we live zoning requires a minimum of 10 a/house. Our house is about 4500 square feet/give or take a few [on two floors]. It is smaller than most of the nearby houses built in the late 90's. It is vaulted to the east so we have about 3 stories of glass. We have two stories of glass to the south. Even with a discount, windows accounted for about 1/2 the cost of the house. We have chestnut, ash and maple planted to the south and west [cooling in the summer but let the sun in during the winter]. We have conifers to the north and northwest as wind breaks.

We have ceiling and wall fans around the house for circulation. If need be we can heat the whole house with our Earthstove. Our central system is a traditional electric heat pump [electricity is relatively cheap here]. It works to about 25 F and then switches to resistance. The system permits us to keep the house at 68 F/38% humidity, year round. Easy on the wooden things.

Hope this helps.

Best wish

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), May 28, 2000.

DebM:

One last thought before I go [ok, maybe more than one].

1. The 10a zoning [actually we are in the middle of 30a] is important, because it allows you to control the environment around the house.

2. This house was custom built. We created the plans and had them checked by a professional.

3. One semi-mistake that I would correct in the future. Our house is not square, but somewhat rectangular. It is easier to use this technology on a square house. Moving air down a long hall is not efficient. Should have learned from the New England saltboxes.

Best wishes,,,,

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), May 28, 2000.

Geothermal's fraught with difficulties. Hawaiian Electric's been experimenting with geothermal (among other alternative energy sources) for years, and they have constant problems with pressure gradients, pump blowouts, pipe corrosion, etc. Then again, it may be that volcanoes aren't the best geothermal sources to hook power plants into.

I have seen a floor heating system like what you describe in South Korea. In the winter, they light charcoal pits under their houses, and allow the heated air to rise and circulate through a series of tile pipes. Most rural houses have these fire pit and pipe systems. Their houses aren't well-insulated, which probably accounts for why more Koreans don't die of asphyxiation during the winter -- the carbon monoxide must be vented outside somehow.

Perhaps worth looking at.

-- Asiapac (asiapac@asiapac.rice), May 28, 2000.

Z,

Thanks for the info on home design - I hadn't thought about air currents & distribution of heat... That's something that I'll definitely have to consider.

A couple of questions though:

1. The east side of your home is vaulted 3 stories high. (Assuming that the glass is facing east flat, not upward angled, like a greenhouse's roof): How do you mitigate the heat entering during the summer - is the glass tinted? Also, are you using impact resistant glass in case of hail?

2. Have you tried to soundproof this "greatroom" area? I used to live in a home that had a central 25' tall vaulted ceiling. The tv noise was magnified tremendously, something I'd really like to not repeat when I build my home.

I'm also considering partially "berming" my future home. However, I'm a little skeptical about the benefits compared to the cons, such as wall strength and ease of repair, long-term water penetration, etc...

-- Deb M. (vmcclell@columbus.rr.com), May 28, 2000.

DebM:

1. The east side of your home is vaulted 3 stories high. (Assuming that the glass is facing east flat, not upward angled, like a greenhouse's roof): How do you mitigate the heat entering during the summer - is the glass tinted? Also, are you using impact resistant glass in case of hail?

Let me explain that one. One arm of the main pond wraps around the east side about 100 ft from the house. We have pinoak, walnut and birch on the edge of the pond. The oak are over 100 ft tall. In the summer the sun hits the [yes flat] windows for about an hour. No they aren't tinted. It hasn't been a problem. We get good hail but it drives in from the west, so not a problem. Most of the windows are from Andersen although some are custom made by them. Three sides of the first floor are under ground. We use the bedroom there when those pesky funnel clouds are in the area. Circulating air from the first floor helps cool the place in the summer. House is on the side of a hill.

2. Have you tried to soundproof this "greatroom" area? I used to live in a home that had a central 25' tall vaulted ceiling. The tv noise was magnified tremendously, something I'd really like to not repeat when I build my home.

Yes you have brought up a good question. The floor in that room is "hanging" [ie. the stairway goes down one side and is open for two floors]. It makes the worlds best sounding-board for a subwoofer. The family room is below it. You can hear music from the second floor without aid on the first. The dining room is also vaulted to the same height. It has a sheet rock ceiling [rather than wood] and reflected sound is not so much of a problem.

Best wishes

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), May 28, 2000.

Z,

Again, thanks for the great info! It sounds like you have a wonderful house - a lot like what I'd like to have, down the road.

One other question, regarding heat distribution: Would it be more efficient to have solar on one side of the house or else create a centralized atrium/solar panel exchange? I was thinking that centralized would make it easier to equally distribute the heat...

-- Deb M. (vmcclell@columbus.rr.com), May 28, 2000.