The Turks have again attacked English fans and there are reports of one of the Arsenal fans being killed in Copenhagen. Trouble flared up on Tuesday night with an Arsenal fan being stabbed in the back. Worse scenes followed in the centre of Copenhagen with another Arsenal fan being stabbed in the stomach. Due to a lack of police , The Arsenal fans fought back , bottles and chairs were thrown and there were horrific scenes of innocent bystanders being caught up in the clashes. Eventually police arrived and broke up the trouble by setting off teargas. One of the Arsenal fans involved in the attack by Turks had a severe heart attack whilst being beaten up and if reports are to be believed has died.

This is a great tragedy and to me there is only one solution. All Turkish clubs and their international team should be banned from future European competitions . They are the instigators of the trouble and they must learn to behave in a civilised manner. Obviously there are two sides involved in these fights , but if you were being attacked and forced into a corner what would you do, lay down and take a beating and possibly be stabbed to death or defend yourself ?

-- Anonymous, May 17, 2000

Answers

I'm sorry Rik but I have to disagree with you. I'm so sick and tired of hearing English fans telling everyone that it was "The police's fault." or "They should have closed the bars." or ""They" started it!". I'm not saying that the Turks are angels. I know that they did thier share and I feel that both sets of yobs are as bad as each other. For goodness sake though; how many more times are we as a nation going to be shamed by these b******s?!

I'd say we can kiss goodbye to the 2006 World Cup. If not yet, then certainly after the scum have ravaged Belgium and The Netherlands.

-- Anonymous, May 17, 2000

Interestingly, when the police did turn up in force (i.e. after the game) there was no bother. I saw on the front page of the Mirror a pic of a Gallatasary fan with a pick-axe handle and machete in hand. I haven't seen anything like that since the 80s. Perhaps UEFA ought to finally take a stand, as they did with English clubs in the 80s and ban Turkish teams from European competition until they put their house in order.

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2000

Has SMB EVER been to a Euro away? ...or followed England abroad?

Yer talking utter shite!! Arsenal fans were outnumbered 2:1 and had to fight or die by the looks of things....and when was the last time you went to a game and had to go home because you forgot your machette and pick-axe handle?

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2000

English fans take their mobile phones and cameras to football matches, They are no match for Machetees and knives of the Turks. As I said in the first posting I can't see any reason why the Turks should not be thrown out of European competitions. If they are allowed to compete in Euro 2000 then PEOPLE WILL BE KILLED. Something has to be done.

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2000

Fing hell Lanky calm doon man , i agree with Rik on this one and do think that the English were outnumbered ...... however from a very good source i am aware that Chelsea , leed and assorted England hoolies were out there too , with the sole intention of getting amongst it . Hence the chants of England , England rather than Arsenal . make no mistake there will be retribution at EUR 2000 and the Brits will get kicked from one end of the street to the other , you wouldnt catch me their in a million years , a very frightening prospect i feel . English hoolies generally fight with boots and fists which are a danger in themselves , but the Turks are just more wild man , they dont give a monkeys and there values are different . Its a bloody cultural divide here as much as anything else . Id be scared , very scared and of course the English so called 'hardmen ' will be the opposite , hmmmmm : - ((

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2000

I'm supposed to be going to two England games at Euro2000. I know no self-respecting hoolie would smack a lass but do you think I should avoid it?

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2000

I've got to be honest SMB, I'm sick of the moralising tut tutting that always comes from certain sections of the media. It was interesting to note that the FA, Local Polic, and UK police have tried to play this whole affair down. I say all this as I was in the Bigg market whhen there was a 'riot' after the defeat by the Arse, riot what riot? But I did spot the blood sucking media on the roof of the chron building snapping away. I haven't got a good word to say about Galatasary fans, but You are going to get some loons going abroard, just a case of how many and how they are handled. It's not these lunatics that course us shame it is the media that paints such a black picture.

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2000

From Soccernet: Smiles turned to sneers years ago in Turkey By Nigel Clarke I am still unwelcome in Turkey for daring to reveal how football violence has escalated there.

The Embassy in London made it clear they were not prepared to allow me in following criticism of their supporters during an England World Cup qualifying match in Istanbul seven years ago.

After my experiences I have no great desire to go back because, for some time now, their football supporters have been guilty of gratuitous violence.

It was no surprise to me that last month two Leeds fans were murdered before their match against Galatasaray, or that an Arsenal fan was stabbed in Copenhagen on Tuesday night before the UEFA Cup Final between the two clubs.

Football provides an emotional outlet for Turkish nationalism which, when combined with a knife culture, results in some of the more hot- headed supporters resorting to violence in a misguided attempt to defend the honour of their country.

Yet I can fondly recall the time when a visit to Istanbul was almost the equivalent of a magic carpet ride in its delicious anticipation.

The souks, the smell of spices, the friendliness of the Turks who would tempt you into their dark little shops with apple tea and outrageous deals for leather goods.

When I was there during the Eighties when England played a series of internationals, it was a vibrant city. East met West, and the cultures exploded in a kaleidoscope of colour and chaos.

Shopkeepers called out greetings, waved, followed you down the little side streets, laughing and friendly. It appeared the British had a special place in their hearts.

But when I last visited for an international in 1993, it had changed dramatically. Where stall-holders and sellers once called out their welcomes, now they turned their backs and spat at their feet.

There was hostility everywhere. It was said that the Gulf War of 1990 against a fellow Muslim nation had poisoned opinion against Britain.

Now there were hostile eyes where once there had been friendly smiles. People no longer stopped to shake your hand; now they wanted to insult you instead.

When England scored an early goal in that match seven years ago, the atmosphere turned chillingly evil. Suddenly, the media were bombarded with missiles.

Heavy metal cigarette lighters came thudding down among us and flares were lobbed in, setting alight the hair of least two Turkish women.

The police, who were sectioned either side of us, did nothing. Nobody attempted to pull the troublemakers out of the crowd. Stewards simply watched and laughed.

Then came the drink cartons filled with urine, followed by pieces of wood ripped from seats and dangerous shards of plastic. Anything the fans could get their hands on came flying down among us.

The players did not escape the bombardment. At least they were protected by riot police with shields, but still the coins rained down on them, some with sharpened edges.

When I wrote in disgust about the appalling behaviour, FIFA banned internationals from being played there for 12 months. Soon after, the Turkish Embassy in London informed me I was no longer welcome in their country.

I have no doubt that in those early days of intimidation, the seeds of violence were sown.

Subsequent visits by English teams such as Manchester United and Chelsea have led to further outbreaks of hostility and hate. Some of their fans even fight among themselves.

So frequent became the 'Welcome to Hell' banners on arrival at the airport that most of us did not even bother to acknowledge them, or the foulmouthed proclamations.

Not just the yobs and hooligans were responsible. Anti-British feeling is rife, magnified by football, which becomes the conveyance for violence.

It is of no surprise to me there may now be fresh blood on Turkish hands. Copyright )1999 ESPN Internet Ventures. Click here for Terms of Use and Privacy Policy applicable to this site. Click here for a list of employment opportunities with ESPN.com

Danger - even for the innocent abroad

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2000

Dougall - that`s a difficult question. You could go, have a wonderful time, and not see one unsavoury incident. Or, you could end up in the wrong place at the wrong time and find yourself in a very distressing situation. I don`t think that being female would give you any protection from flying bricks, breaking glass etc. And with all my heart I would like to be able to say, no worries, you`ll be fine, but I know that if it was me or mine going, I would be concerned. Are you going on your own? (:o)

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2000

I've been abroad once in my life Lanky. To Denmark funnily enough. Anyway, yes I'm sure you saw it as outnumbered Arsenal fans defending themselves but why is it always "English fans were defending themselves."? I'm sorry but if you stand outside a bar and chant and point at "the other lot" on the other side of the road then you're asking for trouble. I'm too tired to go into all of this now but trust me, I'm not taking sides here. The thing is that the Turks aren't our problem; English thugs are and they have been for far, far too long!

TM, I was in the Bigg Market after the Newton Heath game and yes the media were there waiting for trouble. The trouble is, they got it. I stood and watched complete morons pulling up saplings and smashing telephone box windows. The media didn't make them do it. Whether our defeat made them do it is open to question. It's a difficult subject altogether but whether it's fooball's problem or society's problem, I'm just sick to the back teeth of those "people" doing what they do and a lot of the time, getting away with it.

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2000