According to BBC WOrld News

An Arsenal fan has been stabbed after clashes betwwen Galatasaray and Arsenal fans. It is believed that the Turkish fans attacked a bar where English fans were drinking, other scuffles seem to have started as a result of this.

Why are Galatasaray still in this competition?

-- Anonymous, May 16, 2000

Answers

Just watched BBC WORLD news; those Turks are FU@KING animals, as Kegsy says, "WHY ARE GALATSARAY STILL IN THIS COMPETITION?"

From the BBC: "Eye-witnesses in Copenhagen said a group of Galatasaray supporters attacked bars with British or Irish connections, while a number of Arsenal supporters became involved in clashes in the city's Radhuspladsen square.

The injured Arsenal fan was taken away by ambulance after being stabbed in the fighting, with either a knife or bottle.

Arsenal fans knelt around him and used their own shirts to staunch his wound as police officers in riot gear summoned an ambulance.

Some supporters complained that paramedics took 20 minutes to reach the scene and take the heavily-bleeding stab victim to hospital."

:-((

-- Anonymous, May 17, 2000

I'm horrified by this but NOT IN THE LEAST SUPRISED!

I've been predicting this since they were drawn against each other....

The blame should fall squarely on UEFA'S fucking money grabbing shoulders!!.....WANKERS!

-- Anonymous, May 17, 2000

I heard on the radio this morning said he had a punctured lung. I hope he pulls through this and Arsenal go on to stuff the sh*t out of the Turks. If an English fan stabbed anyone we would be expelled from Europe.

-- Anonymous, May 17, 2000

jesus , havent been home all night so hsi si news to me . Im surprised for some reason and i dont know why .. there'll be some bother today now .Dirty turkish gets , no need at all : - (((

-- Anonymous, May 17, 2000

heard this morning that the wound is not serious or life threatening.... thank God!

-- Anonymous, May 17, 2000

This subject was well and truly debated on here after the first incident. I seem to remember that feelings were running pretty high too. What I can`t understand is why it is so obvious to everyone but the `powers that be` that there were going to be problems. I tend to agree with Gav (minus the swearing!) that it all comes down to money - and `ethics` will lose out to `profit` every time - if, in fact, they are ever included in the equation. (:o|

-- Anonymous, May 17, 2000

Galaxy,

Don't you swear then honey?

Get me going and a turrets(sp?) sufferer doesn't even come remotely close to me.....

-- Anonymous, May 17, 2000

How do you guys rationalise having to accept, to put it mildly, that violence is counter-productive, with the urge to drop the biggest effing bomb known to man, on places like Turkey ?

-- Anonymous, May 17, 2000

Gav - of course I swear! I try not too, but I`m not always successful, especially at moments of severe stress! I just don`t swear on here, not ladylike and all that! It wasn`t a rebuke, by the way, I agreed with you, but would have not put it in quite the same way. I think it`s spelt Tourette`s - definately one of life`s most odd afflictions. (:o)

-- Anonymous, May 17, 2000

Apparently it's really kicking off over there and ther are a few 'ringers' in the Arsenal contingent. Not just Leeds fans but Chelsea, Millwall etc. I've got a feeling that this is going to be a black day for football.

-- Anonymous, May 17, 2000

Well just to put it in perspective a little before we all start thinking it's about ringers!

I've got 3 Arsenal friends over there at the moments.....honest, non-fighting football fans who are actually very very loyal to their club....they aren't trouble makers and I hope they make it back safely!

-- Anonymous, May 17, 2000

Sorry Kegsy,

I didn't mean for that to sound like I was having a go at your comment cos I wasn't....just don't want everyone thinking that everyone out there is looking for trouble cos they aren't....

-- Anonymous, May 17, 2000

Sorry to have to say it, but this was entirely predictable. Put two sets of rival football fans together for 48 hours, some recent 'history', unlimited access to booze, and add a pinch of cultural variance, and what do get - mayhem, of course.

Again, we should stop short of automatically allocating blame for these latest problems - the reality is both sets of fans will inevitably have been taunting the other. However, the TV report I saw this morning said that Turks resident in Sweden, Germany and Holland had made their way to Copenhagen, some openly declared to be bent on aggro.

So, what's the answer? Who knows. However, IMO until a solution is formulated it is irresponsible of the Authorities to allow games to go ahead when such a powerful mixture is present that makes violence absolutely inevitable. I was roundly criticised on the Leeds v Galatasary thread for suggesting that Leeds should have withdrawn from the competition following the loss of life experienced because that would be "giving in to the thugs" and allowing them to set the agenda. I still believe I was correct in that instance, and would ask "who's setting the agenda now?"

The really scary issue for me if this is what can happen with a single match, is what is likely to happen in Euro2000 with the fans of many nations roaming around Europe and frequently crossing pathes?

-- Anonymous, May 17, 2000

Wednesday May 17, 5:57 PM

LATEST: Man dies as fans clash in Copenhagen

A man has died of a heart-attack after being caught up in ugly scenes between Arsenal and Galatasaray fans ahead of tonight's UEFA Cup Final.
Arsenal fans are reported to have charged at the Turkish section of supporters after trouble escalated in Copenhagen's Radhuspladsen Square. Missiles were thrown between rival fans following a day of trepidation which culminated in violent clashes.
Ambulance crew were immediately on the scene as riot police tried desperately to calm the situation.
Tempers have been frayed all day as rival fans taunted each other with verbal abuse.
Earlier, riot police attempted to disperse Arsenal supporters gathered outside the Palace Hotel before violence broke out. Chairs were thrown as missiles as the two sets of fans clashed until armed officers brought a halt to the fighting by using tear gas.

-- Anonymous, May 17, 2000

Oops, BOLD off. Sorry!

-- Anonymous, May 17, 2000

Sigh....

I don't know what else to say.....I don't think I could be more angry that this has been ALLOWED to happen.....

-- Anonymous, May 17, 2000

Gav,

What would you have done? Thrown Galatasaray out of the competition (and at what point - would you have let Leeds back in?), played it behind closed doors or made the entire competition null and void?

I don't know the answer. But you're right - it could and should have been foreseen. IMHO, not only are UEFA to blame but it would also appear that the Danish police have a lot to answer for.

-- Anonymous, May 17, 2000

An answer would be to segregate the opposing fans, this fixture was always going to attract the idiots. They see it as a war, an eye for an eye and the like. I am not sure if a bigger police presence would have put a stop to the violence but it would certainly have contained some of the offs enveloping the innocents. It is difficult to achieve a sensible balance, I think everyone has experience of heavy-handed policing and complain of the police stifling their day out, but better that then a knife in the back.

-- Anonymous, May 17, 2000

Gav, I wasn;'t suggesting that all Arsenal fans were trouble makers, in fact I think Arsenal have quite a good reputation. However according to the MSN footie community, there are a couple of people on there, who know guys that have gone over looking for trouble and they aren't Arsenal fans. There was always going to be trouble but the police seem to be noticeable only by their absence.

-- Anonymous, May 17, 2000

I`ve been sat here looking at a blank reply box for half an hour not knowing what to write. The events of the last two days have made me furious. I think it is impossible to apportion blame to one set of `fans` or the other - I`ve no doubt that there were morons on both sides hell bent on causing trouble. Despite the fact that it would have been penalizing innocent supporters, players etc., I wish for once that either UEFA, or the FA or even Leeds or Arsenal`s FC, had taken some sort of radical action that would say once and for all - enough! Instead we get limp assurances from UEFA that they are going to `invstigate` the matter.

It`s too late now! The scene is set for repeat performances at Euro 2000 and another great competion will be ruined.

I don`t know what should have been done, but it should have been done swiftly. Maybe UEFA should have cancelled the competion and invested the remaining prize money in developing ways to avoid these problems. Maybe the FA should have stood up and said `no way!` this stops right here and now for English teams. Or even the relevant football clubs could have pulled out on a point of principal - costly for them I know, but it would give out a clear and resounding message that the reputation of their club, the welfare of their supporters, and the wellbeing of the game in general, are of the utmost importance.

It goes without saying that Galatassary could have done the same, or the authorities in Denmark could have said they weren`t prepared to host the match. But I think from our point of view, we have to put our own house in order, and lead by example. And, if it had been us in the competition? I`d feel just the same. (:o)

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2000

Wow....breaking news.....

You'll all be suprised to hear that Switzerland was actually invaded by Turks last night after they'd won the game!!

Very bizarre.....they all came out of nowhere in cars waving huge Galatasary flags and took over the town centre....

Then they started fighting each other!!(must've been a couple of Fenerbahce with the invasion force eh?) throwing bikes (and motorbikes!) at cars, baseball batting car windows in etc.....

Effing idiots......I don't care what anyone says.....that doesn't happen with English fans (ANYMORE!).....

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2000

Blimey Gav, that must have livened up your evening!

Your last comment, are you sure it doesn`t happen with English fans anymore? How/why are you so sure? (:o)

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2000

Evening was fairly lively anyway....I was in an English Bar that was taken over by turks...I had great fun winding them up and every time they started singing Galatasary songs I'd break out with something from my Geordie Repertoire...

Actually found another Mag in Basel cos of that!! he helped me off course :))

I think they were all a little suprised that two of us were outsinging about 30 of them :))

It was all fairly harmless anyway....apart from the trouble outside afterwards :))

Hmmm maybe I was a little hasty with my comment about english fans not doing that any more.....there's no doubt in my mind that football violence in the UK has been reduced by a HUGE amount!! I know this cos I used to see a lot of it/know a lot of people involved in it!....on the other hand there does seem to be a fair bit about on the international scene....remember all that crap that went off after Euro 96 with pubs getting wrecked, people being attacked for being foreign (and therefore German!) etc.....

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2000