A question on pets

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This is kind of a tough situation. Basically to make it short, my parents had taken in a boyfriend of my sister's because his mom pretty much abandoned him. He lived with them for around 4 years. During this time he was given a boxer puppy.

He rang up a big debt with my mom, because she doesn't really know how to say no to the kid, he was able to wrack up an "I'll pay you when I have the money!" debt with her. He has since moved out and left somewhere between $1000-1500 debt with her. A lot of that in vet bills, a speeding ticket, and countless other things.

Now my parents have come to love this dog dearly. He has finally gotten his own apartment and wants to take the dog back. In his words, he wants to take and breed her, so he can sell the puppies and put a down payment on a car. So basically he sees her like a cash cow.

My question was to all of you who seem to be pretty knowledgeable about the workings of laws regarding pets and whatnot...what kind of obligation do my parents have to give him the dog? My mom loves the dog to death and would rather spay her than have her used as a puppy machine.

-- Anonymous, May 15, 2000

Answers

I could be really off the mark here, but whose name is she listed under at the vet's office? Does your mom have records of her making payment on the bills?

This really tugs my hearstrings. Your parents and the dog are in my thoughts.

-- Anonymous, May 16, 2000


All the vet bills are in my parent's names. He has never taken the dog anywhere or done anything with her. The registration is in his name, but nothing else.

-- Anonymous, May 16, 2000

I say it's cruel and immoral to use the dog as a cash cow, besides wrong: raising healthy puppies doesn't turn a profit. (Perhaps the boyfriend doesn't think about vet bills, good nutritious food, and oh, stud fees, which can be considerable.) Is it possible for your mother to have the dog spayed, to save her and her offspring a lot of grief? I suppose it might be illegal to do it without the registered owner's permission and the boyfriend might sue for loss of income or something, but I'd say your mother has an excellent defense, if she were sued, that she is the de facto owner of the dog and has paid for all of its care, and that spaying was a delayed aspect of the dog's care. Consult an attorney and the dog's vet.

-- Anonymous, May 16, 2000

My sister's high school boyfriend did something similar to my Mom. Pretty much the same situation with his parents - they didn't want anything to do with him just because they were bad parents, not because he did anything wrong or was rebelling....

My mother paid for his college tuition one semester because his parents wouldn't or something like that. It was only supposed to be a loan until he got his financial aid cleared up. To this day he still owes her about $3500 and this was about 8 years ago. He also "borrowed" my credit card and charged about $500 on it. I did get that money back just simply for hounding him about it for 2 years.

I'm afraid I'd say no go with the dog. He's not keeping the dog for the right reasons and making an honest living vs breeding a dog (NOT THAT ALL BREEDERS ARE BAD - JUST IN THIS CONTEXT), I think this is somewhere he can use a lesson in growing up.

Have your parents sit down with him & outline the specific conditions under which he can have doggy custody. Tell him responsible owners have their pets spayed or neutered to control the pet population - there are thousands of homeless, unloved, and unwanted animals. Custody of the dog would be contingent upon 1)paying back the money, 2)demonstrating responsibility over a period of time, 3)demonstrating he loves the animal and is going to do right by her. ETC.....

I'd have your parents get the dog spayed themselves. It might be illegal, but what's he going to sue for? The money he owes Mom? Its not like you can undo the situation after the dog's been spayed.

My sister's boyfriend had a Dalmation for 2 days. Why? He didn't realize what a responsibility a dog was & found out at the same time he could sell her to a friend for a profit. So he did. In the long run that was probably better for the dog, but it was still wrong.

Your parents are responsible adults, it doesn't sound like this boy is. They really are doing him a favor in the long run (and saving the dog) by using this as a way to teach him how to be a grown up.

The whole situation sucks though. I don't envy you at all. (And is your sister still dating this boy? Is she going to be mad? What's her take?)

-- Anonymous, May 16, 2000


My sister isn't involved in it really. They broke up about 2 years after he was living there, but they still get along. I believe my sister sides with my mom that the dog should be, by all rights, theirs.

My biggest question in the whole thing is, can my parents keep the dog from him legally, until he pays up or something? I don't think he could ever pay up - he's almost always broke.

My mom has talked about spaying the dog without his permission. I don't think he could ever sue her because, again, he doesn't have the money to, and I don't know that he'd even think to sue. He probably would be spiteful and still want the dog anyway.

So this is overall more or less a question of, Do my parents have the legal ability to sit down and say "this is what has to happen before you can have this dog" given that the dog is registered in his name.

-- Anonymous, May 16, 2000



Michele, There is a dog forum (message board) at www.animalnetwork.com where you might get some add'l information. The people there are breeders. Click on the link for dogs on the left and then scroll down where it says BECOME INTERACTIVE and click there. Good luck!

-- Anonymous, May 16, 2000

That guy sounds like an idiot, and your mom should do what she can to protect that poor dog from falling into his hands. I say spay ASAP!

-- Anonymous, May 16, 2000

Pets.com has a section that you can ask "animal" questions from a "Pet Attorney". You might check it out- the attorney might be able to give you some good advice. It's under the heading of "Pets Law" and if you go into one of the topics, at the bottom is a "submit a question".

Personally, if your parents want to keep the dog and have taken care of all her bills so far, I'd tell them to just take the dog in to the vet and get her fixed. Worry about the consequences later. I can't imagine that unless she was some sort of a champion show dog that he would have much monitary recourse. Perhaps your parents can write off the boyfriends debt in exchange for the dog (if they can afford it or are willing). Would he be willing to trade? Is the apartment he is at allowing him to keep a boxer? Most apartments have pet size requirements (and pet deposits) that most boxers don't meet.

Good luck! I'm sure the boxer will be better off with your parents where she has grown up, has been taken care of, and has been loved!

-- Anonymous, May 16, 2000


He owes your parents a bunch of money. I'd say they have the right to keep the dog, along with any other possessions of his they might have in their custody.

Of course legally I could be wrong, but that's what I think would be right.

-- Anonymous, May 16, 2000


I'm a dog lover and I say she should keep the dog. If she does not, the dog will have a miserable life. He will probably mistreat the poor dog in addition to mistreating by breeding it. And the puppies would be in danger, too. I think I would risk it, legally and financially, and keep the dog and have the dog 'fixed.' My own conscience wouldn't let me allow him to 'touch' the dog. They're such innocent little creatures. It's been two years! This is just my opinion, of course.

-- Anonymous, May 16, 2000


I checked the pets.com site and looked at all the legal questions dealing with ownership.

Bearing in mind that I am no legal expert, what I gathered was that two things factor into who gets final ownership of the animal: 1. the monetary value of the animal 2. how long someone has been caring for it

The general gist being that keeping someone's mutt is apparently easier to swing than keeping someone's purebred. The other general gist being that these types of agreements where someone takes care of someone else's animal are best carried out when there's some sort of documentation between all concerned parties. I would guess that your parents and the boy probably didn't put anything in writing?

If I were your parents, I would go to a lawyer and see what recourse they have. I hope for their sakes they've been documenting the dog's expenses, as well as the debt the boy owes. If your folks can establish that this boy has already taken them for a fiscal ride, and that they've been the primary caregivers for the dog for most of its life, they probably have a good chance of maintaining ownership.

Again - not a lawyer. But your parents may want to see how they can protect themselves and the dog.

-- Anonymous, May 16, 2000


All I can say is, if the guy thinks it'll be easy money raising puppies...I pity the puppies, but BOY will he have a shock coming.

-- Anonymous, May 16, 2000

Hi everyone. Definately have your parents go and spay that dog, and deal with the fall out later. He doesn't sound responsible enough to own the dog, nevermind start breeding her pups. Please come back and let us know what happened to the dog, I'm a sucker for a dog story.

-- Anonymous, May 17, 2000

Have your parents consulted a lawyer yet? I'd think the dog would fall under the category of 'abandoned property', especially if they've be the de facto owners for the past two years. And get that dog spayed.

If this guy takes them to court, I'd suspect it would be small- claims, and at the worst, they'd have a counterclaim against him for the debts he's rung up against them.

-- Anonymous, May 17, 2000


Well, my parents did talk to a lawyer. He said that if they take him to court, they have a 40% chance of getting ownership of the dog. Because he was living with them, all their vet bills, other money that they've given him, etc, can be considered a gift to him. Which sucks.

The stud fees he would have had to pay are pretty nonexistant. His friend owns a male boxer and I guess he's been told that there wouldn't be a fee for it. However, my mom did call the woman who owns the 'stud' and appraised her of the situation. She said she'd have a talk with the boy over the whole thing, if he gets the dog.

I believe my mom is going to go for the threatening approach. IE "I'll give you $100 for this dog and you walk away from here." If he doesn't go for that, I believe she's going to take him to court over it. But we'll see what happens.

Thank you all for your help.

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2000



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