Inexpensive 35mm system for best result?

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A little help here....

I am not really a beginner -- I am a photographer and an artist and painter and I need help in choosing a new low cost 35mm slr system. I am thinking of investing in the next 6 months. I don't shoot a lot of 35mm anymore - mostly 2 1/4 (70%) or 4x5. In fact, I don't currently even own a 35mm SLR system camera other than an old Exacta VX 500.

I would like my first two lenses to be a 50mm and a short tele (90mm or so). I will be using the camera mostly for portraits or copy work of flat artwork --- eventually maybe with wide angles. Macro capability would be a big plus. For my portraits I use either tungsten lights, strobes that use a flash sync cord (so a PC connector on the camera is a plus), availible light or a combination of all three. I have handheld ambient and spot meters --- so I don't need fancy metering systems.

I originally thought I would stick with the Exacta, maybe add another body (perhaps a VX1000?) but have been thinking that that is not really the best way to go. Prices have risen since I bought the exacta at a garage sale years ago and although I have put this camera through hell it has never failed me...but I have to admit that I've been lucky and there seem to be more non-working exactas on ebay than working ones...it also just feels flimsy and imprecise - I know it will eventually fail. The Exacta is okay but it lacks slow speeds beyond 1/30th and B, the film counter is kaput (I never knew something that seemed so irrelevant like the film counter could matter so much but not knowing how much film I have is a real pain...) and recently the little screw that holds on the shutter speed knob broke and now the shutter speed knob just falls off when I turn the camera vertically -- replacement parts seem to be unavailible -- I can still take horizontal pictures but it is less than practical or confidence inspiring. Also, I have only a 50mm lens and while that is okay I want macro and probably eventually wide angles too -- I don't think that there is much of a range of lenses are availible and while a lot of old 50mm lenses for the exacta mount are cheap, the better stuff seems as expensive as or even more so than, say, used Minolta MD. More modern lenses woulb be a big plus, especially for macro or wide angles. I also would prefer a camera with at least some TTL metering which I find handy for macro photography with hot lights.

A few years ago I had Canon Eos A2 - while all that automation was fine, for the way I work I might as well just have a Nikkormat. Since I use my 35mm SLR so infrequently, I could never remember what all those little knobs did and I ended up wasting a lot of the batteries by forgetting to turn it off so it would spend 3 months metering the inside of a lens cap and I'd have to buy another stupid battery. I didn't like autofocus, didn't like they way the lenses failed to focus easily manually, wanted a split image in the viewfinder and I didn't like that it took me 15 minutes to figure out how to lock up a mirror when I did a time exposure twice a year so I sold it.

I've been looking at the prices of used old Nikons - FM, FE or similar - in shutterbug ads or in ebay - is it me, or is that stuff way overpriced? Somehow I think a used camera with scratches and dings and no warranty should be substantially cheaper than new. Anyone familiar with these FM-10s and FE-10s? When I was in school, the photo department would loan Nikkormats to students who needed a camera - such a camera would be fine, but, again, too expensive. I am also looking at Minolta MD x-370 and x-700 but they do not seem to have the range of lenses availible...a couple of zooms, normal, 28mm and that seems about it. Should I get the Minolta and a 50mm plus a Vivitar 90mm? I am assuming the Minolta doesn't have mirror lock up.

My other alternative is one of the other off brand SLRs - like a Vivitar (they have 1 model) or Yashica or Pentax K1000. These all seem to suffer from the same problem as the Minolta - too small a lens range. I can't find prices for a new K1000---I had one a few years ago and didn't like it -- as I remember, there was no way to turn the meter off other than put the lens cap on the thing and the camera almost did a somersault when I tripped the shutter - not enough mirror cushion, I guess. The used ones seem way overpriced for what you get too.

I don't need a bulletproof camera - I'm not a globe trotting journalist - but would want one reasonably cheap and durable - durable enough to put up with some bouncing around in a camera bag (I travel alot and don't end up babying my stuff). I also want a system that is cheap enough that I can afford 2 bodies-I always want a backup and often shoot 2 emulsions. I don't need the "sharpest lenses" in the world since I tend to choose my films on the basis of how I like the tone curve and color rather than accutance(my favorite emulsions are Tri-x and Agfa Ultra 50).

Anyone got any ideas? If any of you wizards know prices (or good places online to look a

-- g.l. wurpen (gleepw@hotmail.com), May 13, 2000

Answers

(posting chopped off)...or good places to look at prices online I'd appreciate it if you could email me the URL.

I'm open to suggestions - any reason why I shouldn't go for a new, cheap SLR like the Yashica and fill out my lens lineup with Vivitar or Tamron lenses? Whatever the system, I plan of keeping it 3-5 years at least so it has to be reasonably durable.



-- gleep (gleepw@hotmail.com), May 13, 2000.


Go to your local camera stores, ask them when and where the next swap meet in the area is. You can generally find better deals than available from any advertised dealer. Nikon will probably give you the greatest availability of manual focus lenses. If you use the camera infrequently, a FM10 or FE10 should serve you adaquately. However, for better peace of mind, a FM2N can't be beat.

-- chuck (chaohui@msn.com), May 14, 2000.

If you're going to want 35mm for macro and copy work, you might consider a camera that will make it easy. I'd recommend an old Nikon F with one of the repairable Photomic finders (yes, some people repair them now). A body and some AIS lenses wouldn't cost a fortune.

-- John O'Connell (boywonderiloveyou@hotmail.com), May 15, 2000.

If you're looking for used gear try http://www.keh.com. They have about the best prices around, except for high-end Nikon manual focus gear which I've found cheaper at local shops. If you're looking for new gear, try KEH too. Depending upon how much you want to spend the Nikon FM2n could be the best choice. KEH sells it $40-$50 less than B&H. The 1/250th flash synch could be handy for you.

Add two or three good used Nikon AI lenses and you'll be set for under $1000.

-- Darron Spohn (dspohn@photobitstream.com), May 15, 2000.


Under $1000? How about under $500? That's where my budget is. In many ways I prefer a new camera to a used camera simply to have the warranty and at leasy some assurance that I am not inheriting someone elses problems. I have bought used in LF and MF equipment -- frequently I seem to end up putting in a few more $$ at the repair shop to get things working right. I usually try to make the things I find cheap enough that cost of repair doesn't leave me wishing I had bought new.

I can't get behind spending over $300.00 for a used Nikon camera body in ex or ex- condition, especially when what I really need is just a camera body that delivers 1-1000 and B, mounts the lens and has perhaps DOF preview.

Current contenders are the Olympus OM2000 (nice range of lenses at prices that seem generally lower than or in line with Nikon's - add a spot meter - camera with cheapo zoom that I might use for grab shots is $229, without is $159. Plenty of OM lenses seem to be availible used at okay prices. big bonus: SPOT METER built in! I have a hand held spot meter but like to travel light on hikes...) Nikon FM10 looks okay - at $239 its only 10$ more than the OM2000. More lenses for Nikon are availible, but most seem more expensive - new and especially used. FM10 is sold only with the 35-70mm zoom. Photo.netters claim that FM10 and OM2000 are made by the same aftermarket subcontractor - if true, lens is also probably the same. FM10 lacks the spot meter and has only the Nikon-style centrewieght meter that I actually find less useful. Yashica FX-3 is also pretty good- similar price to others (actually a little cheaper) but there are almost no new Yashica lenses, only very expensive contax lenses. I guess there are always Tamron. No one seems to use this camera - almost no info on photo net and I wonder why.

anyone can shed some light?

-- g.l. wurpen (gleepw@hotmail.com), May 15, 2000.



Why don't you just buy a Nikkormat? You yourself suggested it.

I sold my nice FTn just a few months ago for $110 US, shipped. You could get an FTn or FT2 for that kind of money. (The FT3s are a little expensive because they meter with AI lenses including the AF ones; the FTn and FT2 will meter with AI/AIS fine but need to use stop-down mode or have a meter shoe installed on Series E and autofocus Nikkors.)

Get a couple of FTn / FT2 bodies (~$100 each in nice shape, $75 for usable beaters - make sure the meters work), $50-75 for a 50/1.4 (about $40 for a 50/2), and a 105/2.5 for $100-150. (The Series E 100/2.8 is also nice, but you need to spend about $25 to add a meter shoe to it.) You can buy non-AI Nikkors to save some money, or buy AI-converted or AI/AI-S ones in case you want to get more modern Nikon bodies later.

The FM is not a lot of money. You should be able to get one for $175- 200. It's AI. An FM2n will cost you $250-500 depending on condition.

-- Jim MacKenzie (photojim@yahoo.com), May 16, 2000.


hello. for under $500?

well, to start out look into the Pentax ZXM. It is the replacement for the Pentax 1000. Pentax ZXM is a manual focus camera but with amenities of a modern AF camera (i.e. autowind and autorewind). the control knobs of the pentax ZXM is very traditional. I have a Pentax ZXM with a 50mm f2 lens and i love it. Since the camera accepts K-mount lenses you should be able to find an array of lenses on the market.

you can get the camera with the lens for $200 at B&H. www.bhphoto.com.

for a review of the ZXM: http://members.tripod.com/ZXM/

other options are:

Nikon FM2 (well the body alone would cost you $400-500) Nikon FM10/FE10 kit and also get a 50mm lens

-- Sang (sangdkim@msn.com), May 16, 2000.


I will suggest you to go in for FM2N along with primes of your choice. It is above your budget but in the long term you will gain from it. You may be able to get MF primes in MINT condition since most of the equipment crazy guys have shifted to AF by now. FM10 is made by cosina and is not that reliable.

-- Anil (anils@vsnl.com), May 18, 2000.

"I can't get behind spending over $300.00 for a used Nikon camera body in ex or ex- condition, especially when what I really need is just a camera body that delivers 1-1000 and B, mounts the lens and has perhaps DOF preview."

I feel the same way. That's why I recommended an F. A Nikkormat would also be a good choice. Both of those are easily under $300 (you could get two Nikkormats for that) and both also have cheap lens choices in older lenses. I got into Nikon to be able to mount modern wideangles on cheap MLU bodies (without blowing the budget for while saving for my 305/9 G Claron).

A Nikkormat, a 50/1.8, and the 105/2.5 should be within your budget. The most recent prices I've seen on these things (Philadelphia) were $160 for practically mint FTn, $50 for a mint-glass Series E 50/1.8, and you can get a new 105/2.5 for $360 grey from B&H.

Minolta MD, Konica, or Canon FD would be cheaper for the easy stuff (maybe) but if you want something the least bit rare you'll get gouged. At least in my experience.

-- John O'Connell (boywonderiloveyou@hotmail.com), May 18, 2000.


A sturdy old Nikon would be a fine choice. I will, however, second Sang's recommendation of the Pentax ZX-M. They're downright cheap brand new and quite capable (and lack the quirks of the K1000). However, the ZX-M doesn't offer mirror lockup, the option of doing multiple exposures, or a PC connector. You could get a ZX-M with a 50mm lens and a Vivitar 100mm macro for a total cost not much over $300. Both Nikon & Pentax let you mix & match between old and new lenses and bodies, which is

-- Robert Hohlfelder (robert.h@mindspring.com), May 19, 2000.


One thing to remind you of your Minolta X-700 option is that X-700 does not have MLU or prefire which is a pain for macro shot

-- George Zhang (george.zhang@china.zeneca.com), May 21, 2000.

I have been in much the same position. The 35 system I use is cheap, versatile, reliable, with giid lenses. I have a Pentax K 1000 that I bought a number of years ago. I have a 28 a series pentax lans, the 50, an m series 135. They all take 49 mm filters ( something to think about). A year and a half ago I added a zxm body, and a 500mm cheap tele lens. The k1000 has been unbelievably reliable. I have done no mantainance on the camera and have bounced it all around the world for the last 20 years. Being all manual, if the battery dies, you still have a functioning body.I too wish the meter could be turned off, but it really is a non issue as I keep the lens capped when not shooting anyway. The batteries last along time. The zxm has better metering, but I can't say I like all the noise of the winder. Batteries are expensive, don't last that long' and the canera is a brick without them. Not counting the 500 the lenses are great. They are small, sharp , contrasty, well built. I can easily put 2 bodies, three lenses, a small meter, some filters and film in my fanny pack. If you are not stuck on slrs, there is another option that I am currently exploring. I cut my teeth on screw mount Leicas, and only gave them up when they got too expensive. I always have loved rangesinders. Anyway, I recently bought a kiev4, a ukranian Contax clone. The body cost with 50mm and case cost $40, another $100 to get cleaned lubed and adjusted.A finder for $50 or so, and lenses are about $50 range. I have been pleasantly surprised by the quality of the camera. The rangefinder is great, much brighter and bigger then my old Leica. The lens is very good, contrasty and sharp. I think without much trouble a person could put together a three lens system of surprising ability for less than $300.

-- Bruce Appel (appelgate@aol.com), February 13, 2001.

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