So, when & under what circumstances did you talk about 'where this relationship is going' with someone? Are we friends/more than friends/completely ga-ga for each other? Good experience/bad experiences & fears thereof.

Why? My therapy assignment this week is to have this talk with my next door neighbor who I'm completely, 100% ga-ga over. I'm so bad about saying what I feel, but I know it is just a fear of rejection issue. We spend a lot of time together, he comes over each night for at least a couple of hours, we've stated we enjoy spending time with each other, etc.... but I have this fear of messing all that up by saying I want more! (And then I'd miss his company - he's so amazing & *marvelous* & my next door neighbor which would make going home at night suck!)

I figure this isn't isolated to just me, so please share your tales... Of course, if no one answers, I'll know that is just me. :-)

-- Anonymous, May 09, 2000

Answers

I'll go first -

I had a boy start the talk by telling me I gave him 'butterflies.' Wasn't that sweet? Just made my heart go pitter pat.

He later used a variation on the same line to dump, me... 'You just don't give me butterflies anymore, but _______ does."

-- Anonymous, May 09, 2000

I've always had "the talk" with guys at some point after we starting going out. I can't stand ambiguity and I want to know where we stand. I see a clear difference between "going together" and just going out or hanging out together or whatever. Also, I'm not interested in casual sex with anyone. It only feels right to me if we are a couple.

I'd rather take the risk that he won't feel the same way than go on believing we have more than we do.

I guess I've been on the same wavelength as most of my boyfriends or something because it's always worked out that they liked me too and wanted to be an item. The only time I've come to grief over this was when I thought we were in harmony and didn't talk to him about it, and it turned out he thought we were just pals.

-- Anonymous, May 09, 2000

Our first date, my now-fiance turned to me whilst we were sitting in his truck, and asked me if I was interested in making this "a definite thing."

We had been talking via phone for a week, and it was the first night we were together in person.

Seemed a little rushed, but everything clicked and fit right.

And I had known, going into it, that he was looking to settle down.

Oh. The one I wish hadn't happened... this boy asked me to the Jr/Sr Banquet my senior year. (Jr/Sr Banquet = prom for my Baptist high school) Went through weeks of talking, ignoring each other. It was very very annoying. So finally (night of graduation, I believe), I decided I *must* know if it was worth trying to keep up with him.

I followed him home. Basically, I stalked him that entire afternoon.

Looking back, I was very shrewish and pesk-like. But then, I was kind of just desperate for an answer.

Anyway.

He wasn't worth stalking at all. Y'know, hindsight, 20/20, all that.

No real help for you, Grace, I'm sure. Just don't not do something and regret it later.

-- Anonymous, May 09, 2000

Has he given any implicit or explicit clues thats he's interested in more? How long have you two been pals? And are you prepared for him to say no?

-Joy [skeptical of therapy "assignments"]

-- Anonymous, May 09, 2000

Oh, definately, he's given clues. I think he's tried to bring it up a couple of times, but I'm such a good avoider that I change the subject.

I'm not really worried about it too much - if something happens great, if not, I'll add this one to my *LONG* list. I'm 26 and feel like I'm in high school with anticipation about what's happening! Haven't been this giddy in years!!!! I was really simply wondering if anyone had funny butterfly type stories or good experiences to share. (or nightmares.)

Really, if you look at it, I think almost everyone has this conversation at least once in their life! Right? And it is such a peculiar conversation. You don't have this with your employer this seriously, you don't have it with your family, and you don't have it with your friends - about what's going on in the relationship?! It is a crazy little love dance - part of what makes it fun (the giddiness) and part of what makes it suck (the uncertainty.)

Everyone should be a little skepticle of therapists! I had a crazy woman who once told me that as a female, I should always drink out of a straw because women enjoy that sucking motion! Can you believe??? Therapy isn't bad at all - there are a lot of misconceptions about it I think. Its all about knowing yourself and becoming a better you. Those that stay in it as their own weekly pity party are in it for the wrong reasons.... but should probably be in therapy nonetheless because they have some issues!

-- Anonymous, May 09, 2000

P.S. When Mr. Wonderful told me the butterfly thing I didn't know if I should cheer or laugh because of the sweet, innocent way he said it.

I heard another story about a girl (really NOT ME, a co-worker of a friend) who had been going out with a celebrity. Apparently the guy was a real doof. Just didn't grow up because he'd been in the limelight since like high school or something. So this very famous guy, dripping with money, and endorsements, and a movie and a million other grown-up things ask this girl, "will you go with me?" And he was serious. She laughed, and didn't "go with him." Told him she'd given that up in elementary.

-- Anonymous, May 09, 2000

I had a relationship check-in talk recently, that was instigated by this journal, and other journal writers who were having relationship crises. I was talking to Jack about how this person and that person were having trouble, and how it was sad, and tough to read about. He came back with "I've been thinking about having this conversation with you, but I didn't know how to start it. You know, a couple of people have asked me lately if we are going to be getting married."

Well, I was startled! the talk didn't end up with us getting engaged, but I think we are on a firm footing right now.

Anita of Anita's BOD and Anita's LOL

-- Anonymous, May 09, 2000

In my experience, those 'where are we going' talks have always ended up with my boyfriend saying 'um, nowhere, you weirdo'.

However, when Tristan and I got together there was no talk at all. After about a week we were talking about when we have kids, one day. It was kind of just assumed from the start that this was IT, and nobody ever 'said' it. I'm aware this may not be normal, but it's the reason why I knew straight away that it was going to work out.

-- Anonymous, May 10, 2000

Feh. Tell your therapist to take a hike, Grace.

Relationships are not things you check in on, or take the pulse of. It's not a thing you can resucitate or resurrect or create out of thin air.

If you and this person get along, then let it be. If it's going to blossom into more, then it will. I can practically guarantee you, however, that if you worry it and analyze it into the ground, you will destroy the potentiality and kill the magic, the park, the butterflies.

The best thing to do is be honest and do not play games of any kind - do not drop hints, do not play the subtle game - all that crap that women are taught to do. Men not only generally loathe it but they don't pick up on the hints and you'll end up feeling lousy and rejected without really even being rejected.

Be his friend. Let him be your friend. If you get nervous, that's okay, but you've got to understand that if he's trying to bring it up and you brush it off because you're scared, you're sending out a "I don't want to talk about it" vibe.

It is not the end of the world if he rejects you romantically.

Boyfriends are a dime a dozen - good friends are rare.

-- Anonymous, May 10, 2000

btw, I forgot to mention a site that has been very helpful and useful for me:

http://www.loveadvice.com/

The Library portion has tons of good advice on getting clear with *yourself* about what you want.

Anita of Anita's BOD and Anita's LOL

-- Anonymous, May 10, 2000

I used to discuss stuff with my ex-boyfriend all the time, even after we broke up...I mentioned this on elgonquin and suddenly got a lot of comments like "God, I _never_ talk about relationships. I just HAVE them."

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Is it better to discuss or act?

-- Anonymous, May 10, 2000

Jennifer - act, every time. If something is going well it should be evident without spelling it out, and if it's going badly the same applies (this is where I came a cropper in every relationship pre- Tristan).

-- Anonymous, May 10, 2000

I think you are dead-on on this one, Gabby.

I think we would all be much happier if we took a more Taoist approach to relationships and just let them happen and be.

But truly that is so much easier said than done. It's advice I really need to take myself. If things done feel "right" to me I'm prone to talking them to death.

-- Anonymous, May 10, 2000

Well, I totally disagree, gabby. For me, not talking about the relationship would be playing a game, pretending I don't care about what things are like between us when I do.

But I think it varies from person to person. Some people need to process, some people detest it. Some couples are able to find themselves on the same page, like Jackie described. But don't we all know people, if we haven't been there ourselves, where one person thinks things are serious and the other thinks they both know it's just a summer romance?

The best you can hope for is that you'll end up with someone who has your same style of processing / not processing.

-- Anonymous, May 10, 2000

I was best friends with my last boyfriend for three years before we finally "got together."

I can say that it is definitely worth it when you are together. I loved every minute of it with him. We did pretty much the exact same thing that we did before, but...it was different. It felt different. I guess it's one of those hard to explain kind of things.

But it was great. But the breakup is a bitch, and our friendship hasn't really been the same at all. We're still close, but we're no where near as close as we used to be, and I miss what we used to have.

So..to recap.

It's great to together with your friend. Sucks to break up. Just make sure that you really want to be with him, and that he really wants to be with you, and get out before you can't salvage the relationship.

Hm.

-- Anonymous, May 10, 2000

Grace, I know just how you feel. After I had been dating my current boyfriend for 4 months and people would ask me if I had a boyfriend, I could honestly say I didn't know. Event though we were ALWAYS together and we told each other we liked each other a lot, etc. So one day I had to take my car in and he said he would follow me there and pick me up. I said I didn't want to impose and he said, well, we are kind of like boyfriend/girlfriend. Really?? Okay, then. So from then on we were *official*, and now it's been 6 months.

In the beginning, it's nice just to let things be and see where it goes, but after a while, as you get closer you have to find out if you are on the same wavelength and want the same things.

-- Anonymous, May 10, 2000

Having married my best friend almost a year ago, I say go for it. As long as you don't make it sound like an ultimatum, there's no reason you can't be friends even if that's all he's interested in.

And I have to disagree with Gabby and say that talking about relationships can be a really good thing. Not if that's all you do, but about four times a year or so we'll have kind of a "State of the Relationship Address". It's nice to make sure we both have the same perceptions of the relationship and of where we're going. Also, minor problems we might not mention get discussed before they fester. Of course, we're both analytical left-brained scientist types so your experience may be totally different.

-- Anonymous, May 10, 2000

Do you have a pub or nice park in the neighborhood? Just ask him to hang out (casually) somewhere else besides your home. Go to the market, go out for ice cream, ask him to run errands with you. It sounds promising!

-- Anonymous, May 10, 2000

I think it's very interesting that none of the men around here have posted an opinion on this matter.

I, for one, imagine their views are as varied as ours. But still. Come on fella's. What's a girl to do?

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

Ask and ye shall receive...

As a guy, my experience has been that when a women starts a conversation with "We need to talk," it's usually bad news. So I wouldn't start off the conversation that way.

If the guy hasn't stepped forward yet, I would guess that he's kind of shy, so I'd go low-key. But I definitely endorse letting him know how you feel. Maybe he's just looking for you to make the first move because he's as worried as you are about losing the friendship.

Go for it!

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

Jackie: I was thinking more when things aren't going wrong re: talking...I doubt I talked about things going well/state of boyfriend/girlfriendness. But when we were both having a conflicting problem, we talked it out ad nauseum in hopes of finding a solution, or possibly resolving someone's emotions regarding the problem. Which I guess explains how it ended.=(

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000