Or other thoughts on how the season finale is shaping up? Share with the group!

Oh, wait. Some people get the messages via e-mail and might not want to read them ... so this is a warning to those people to delete all messages with this subject heading unread. How's that?

-- Anonymous, May 09, 2000

Answers

No thoughts (other than the usual), but folks can catch the Whedon interview on Fresh Air today. (archived Real Audio can be found through www.npr.org)

-- Anonymous, May 09, 2000

We actually get Buffy in Canada a day earlier than the US does, so I post spoilers every week. Except I don't want to ruin the show for anybody, so I post useless spoilers - designed to only make sense after you've seen the episode.

It's at Parietal Pericardium. They're pretty clearly marked.

Last night the friends I watch it with suggested that Riley is, perhaps, evil, or possibly latent - and Adam will know how to bring it out, so they can join forces to bring Buffy down (but will be foiled by Tara, who must be a demon of some sort after that incident with throwing the dust away in the demon-detecting spell, who will turn out to be a demon princess with an army of thousands at her beck and call).

But we're just guessing.

-- Anonymous, May 09, 2000

Actually, I'd love to see Riley be evil. Then that'd be a good reason to *kill* him. Dead dead dead. Make way for talent. Any talent.

But clearly, I've killed this thread.

They can kill vampires and demons.

I kill threads.

-- Anonymous, May 10, 2000

Tragically, I've heard that Mark "I Shave My Chest To Mask My Lack Of Talent Because It Seemed To Work For That Boreanaz Guy" Blucas has signed as a regular cast member next season. I loved watching Angel kick his ass.

Although I also felt kind of sorry for him, too, but only in a "what a chump!" kind of way.

I thought last night's episode was one of the better ones of the season; Adam still isn't scary, but I loved me some Spike. He's my husband, you know, in an alternate reality. Really.

-- Anonymous, May 10, 2000

Have mercy on my soul. I really hoped that Riley would cease to exist by next season. This is unfortunate news.

I, too, am always pleased by Spike. So much so, in fact, that sometimes I keep laughing for several minutes after one of his comments, to the point of annoyance that my roommates tell me to pipe down so they can hear the dialogue in the next scene. I can't help it -- he makes me giggle uncontrollably, and then I replay his lines in my head, and I laugh some more.

And I still can't believe that his accent isn't real.

words diminish

-- Anonymous, May 10, 2000

The ending of last night's episode took me a bit by surprise. I didn't really see it coming from hints in the episode, and (shockingly enough) I didn't read a spoiler about it ahead of time. From the spoilers I have read, though, I might guess that Adam is controlling Riley through a chip that the Initiative put in him, perhaps a variation on the chip that neutered Spike. Thus, Riley will act all evil for a short time next episode, Buffy will flash back into "everyone I sleep with turns into a monster" mode, and a thoroughly angsty time will be had by all.

I did think that Adam was slightly more interesting last night than he has been in the past. Just slightly, though. He is a seriously awful villian, and not in the good way. He's dull, and he's so underdeveloped that his role in the plot as a cheap way for the writers to destroy the Initiative is glaringly obvious. I will not be sorry at all to see Buffy (or Riley, or a big explosion, or whatever) put his ass down for good next week. I just hope the much-touted Little Sister who's arriving in the finale will be a villian closer to par with Spike or the Mayor rather than another hunk of walking plot device.

-- Anonymous, May 10, 2000

You know, I never really cared for the Buffy/Angel romance thing (but I joined in late) but I hate HATE Riley/Buffy. I want to smack that bitch up. I was kinda mad about Willow too, not realising, when Xander was like, "Tara is your girlfriend?" that Xander was so clueless. It sucks they can be played against each other so easily. I'm guessing that Riley is going to confront Adam, that it's not like, him JOINING him. Screw Riley, though he's cute, I just hate seeing them together.

I'm starting an all-buffy/angel blog if anyone would like to join it. Post spoilers, rants, etc. here!

-a

-- Anonymous, May 10, 2000

Speaking of Spike: did anyone see him on VH1's "The List" this week? He's so totally NOT English! He's just, like, some guy. I knew he was an American, but I still feel cheated.

And Angel sure did open a can of whup-ass on Riley, didn't he? I like Riley fine, but he's no Angel.

And in last night's episode I just KNEW that when Anya and Tara were in the bathroom Anya was going to say something like, "so, you like to eat pussy, huh?"

I was disappointed that she didn't.

Harold - wonderland 2 - http://jennyseat.freeservers.com/wonder/

-- Anonymous, May 10, 2000

I was amused by how they handled the whole Willow-Tara thing... it looked like Willow was oblivious to Tara's feelings for her and everybody else was picking up on it, but instead, Faith was the only one to notice and Willow was hiding it from her friends. Interesting switch. Given that she used to date a werewolf, Buffy dated a vampire, and Xander's seeing an ex-demon, I hope they all begin to give her a teensy bit of slack about caring for a human being.

Also, this business of Giles singing. I'm wondering if there's anything in the point that he learned these songs, and was a musician, back during his "angry at the world, demon-summoning Ripper days," as Buffy put it in Band Candy. There is an obvious-but- unfortunate path for him to take if he wants to have a midlife crisis and reclaim some of his lost youth...

I just love the fact that Spike can tell the scoobies that he hates them all, to their faces, and two episodes later, they've forgotten all about it.

-- Anonymous, May 10, 2000

Anthony Head (Giles) came from a very heavy musical background. He played Tommy and Frankfurter that I know of, but probably did many more recognizable roles. I think the singing was sort of an way to find Giles something interesting to do career-wise. I would give nearly anything to see him play Frank though.

As for Riley, a painful death would be nice. It's completely unfair that they can kill off Doyle and continue to allow Riley bore us to tears every week.

The Willow/Tara thing was handled quite well if a bit less candidly than I would like to see. I though SMG's look of surprise when the reality of their relationship dawned on Buffy was priceless. It's not often we get to see Buffy surprised by anything.

Is anyone else been slightly disappointed with this season as a whole? I mean, I used to still have goosebumps when the "grr... argh." promo came up. These days I've already changed channels before the credits even start. Regardless, it's still better than 9/10 of the crap on tv these days.

-- Anonymous, May 10, 2000

Re: the "handling" of the Tara/Willow thing. The Whedon interview on NPR yesterday noted that WB has required that there be no kissing between the two. While the candle blowing bit was better than any kiss ever could have been, I think that reaches a new WB low.

Of course, the close observer will note that in the Angel episode that followed, there's a quick shot of two (presumably) female demons getting in on . . .

Guess that only means human lesbians fall below the network standards . . .

~~~

Re: Angel kicking Riley's ass- I'll have to say, I was terribly unimpressed with Angel's performance- I mean, he was getting the thicker part of a beatdown for a little bit there. What's up with that? Wouldn't have expected him to let Riley "Milk does your body good, pass it on" Boy even finish lifting a finger . . .

-- Anonymous, May 10, 2000

Curtis, I think the deal with that is that Angel knew who he was and didn't actually want to kill him ... he just wanted to give him a good ass-whupping. Whereas Riley was trying (and failing) to kill Angel.

J and I agree that Angel needs to do more rooftop escapes. Very cool, very Batman.

-- Anonymous, May 10, 2000

Well, while I didn't _expect_ Riley to go bad, it didn't suprise me either. It's pretty typical "alternate personality" reprogramming it seems to me, (a la "The Long Kiss Goodnight"). Either a hypnotically implanted personality that was triggered by the words "Forrest is dead" or a chip that was triggered by same or some other random Initiative stuff. Since Adam can basically log onto their network with impunity, it follows that he knows everything there is to know about Riley.

Who knows whatall Maggie Walsh did to her "boys" before unleashing them on the demon hordes.

As for Tara's secret, Sabs and I have been going back and forth on that since she tossed the dust in the "find-the-demons" spell. The latest wild idea we've come up with is that she's fae, or maybe a semi-demon similar to Doyle, something that doesn't exhibit all the time. Basically, can't wait to see what Joss is going to come up with to explain her.

And yeah, it was very cool indeedy to see Angel hand Riley his ass on a silver platter, but also equally satisfying to see Angel get physically bested and resorting to using quick thinking to get out of a tight spot on Angel.

As for the finale, I'm hoping to see the "promised" evolution for Xander. I don't care all that much about the Initiative stuff -- there aren't that many conclusions that can arise for it really ... (although I wonder if there's any connection between the Initiative and Wolfram and Hart ... wouldn't that be twisted) ... but development within the group would be good, since that's what made the series so interesting to begin with.

Most of this season has felt a little bit lost, as if they forgot about character development underneath the weight of twisty plot machinations that never really panned out. The arc dealing with Faith (on both Buffy and Angel, the slow development of the relationship between Tara and Willow and "Hush" have been the highlights of the season for me.

-- Anonymous, May 10, 2000

WB required there wouldnt be any kissing between Willow and Tara? I wish I were surprised, guess Ill have to settle for sullenly angry. How totally ridiculous and, considering the shows subject matter, how hypocritical. What a pack of socially estranged losers.

Who do the WB they think theyre going to offend? If theyre so concerned about viewer response, where have they been hiding their faces when it comes to gratuitous violence, which purportedly would have a much more substantial effect on whichever viewers theyre trying to protect than any explicit show of affection between two women ever could. And what about the recent Buffy/Riley sex-fest? Id rather see two sweet, interesting people smooch than be subjected to a semi-annoying couples wank marathon. That was very explicit and, to my mind, oddly raunchy, but that relationship gives me hives on a tame day.

-- Anonymous, May 10, 2000

I love the thought that Tara could be faerie! What a great idea; a little of the mischievious instead of the plain devious would be a refreshing change, I think.

One thing about Tara, though: Does anyone else wonder about how wimpy she is? She's so submissive and quiet and non-threatening in any way; I wonder how much of this is to make it "easier" for the audience to swallow a lesbian relationship. I mean, as long as she's feminine (and there's no kissing, which is just lame, lame, lame) and subdued, the audience isn't faced with too much "alternate" sexuality.

It's sad, isn't it, that our society is ok with inter-species kissing (human-werewolf, human-vampire, human- ex-demon etc) but not with same-sex kissing. I mean, which of these are we *more* likely to see in real life?

Anyhow, I was trying not to squeal too loudly during the kitten scene with Willow and Tara. I'm gonna have to replay that one over and over again; Willow is so adorable!

-- Anonymous, May 10, 2000

re: last night's episode....everyone seems to be taking that bit at the end as evidence for Riley's evilness (wishful thinking?). I took it more of a "you killed my boy and now it's personal" kind of thing. That's why he was all up in Adam's shit.

Joss is doing everything he can to drive my hormonal little self insane. I mean, Spike in a commando uniform wearing black nail polish? A classic Angel billowy coat shot? Another classic Angel- walks-away-down-long-hallway-as-Buffy-gazes-after-him shot? sigh.

A wardrobe complaint: What in the seven HELLS was Xander wearing last night? His sweater made me want to throw things at my tv.

-- Anonymous, May 10, 2000

Hey everyone--I just wanted to alert you all to the semi-recently formed Buffy discussion list for journallers, Once Bitten. The URL to subscribe is:

http://www.egroups.com/ group/oncebitten

Hope to see some of you there!

Melissa

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

Okay Dammit. I'm hooked now. I have put off watching this show for its entire existance until the last few weeks. Please help me.

What is a good place to go read the abbreviated history of the show? Like why is this Maggie Walsh thing and etc..? I mean I don't want to have to wade through 500 pages to find the highlights and timeline of the show.

Anyone?

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

Renee--

www.buffyguide.com. Complete episode synopses (synopsises?) from the very first season til now.

Just start at the beginning and start reading. Trust me. You'll try to start later, but you'll end up going back anyway.

Melissa

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

I've just started watching Buffy these last few weeks. I live in Vancouver, where they always change the time of Buffy each week. Last week it was on Monday, sometimes on Wednesday, and sometimes they don't say it in the Vancouver Sun schedule at all.

Apparently it's regularly on Wednesday on VTV. I checked and it was Who Wants to Be a Millionaire and Drew Carey.

Does anyone know when it's on and what channel in Vancouver? (I don't have any specialty channels.) Or is it just thrown on when they need filler? I wish their was a set time

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

Cool Melissa!

Thanks

-- Anonymous, May 12, 2000

I'm wondering about that blackout in protest of the network shutting down fan sites... isn't that what the networks WANT? Oh, well.

-- Anonymous, May 12, 2000

ok,,,it seems by the look of all of the answers posted you are all at the end of season 4,i have actually seen the season 4 finale and i have also seen a big chunk of season 5 (around 16 episodes). so i will answer some questions about wat will happen so if anyone doesnt wanna see som major spoilers pleese stop readin now,,,,,,,,,, ok so,,,,the season 4 finale is a few strange one,it starts by the gang gatherin around giles house for a video,they all fall asleep and one by one their dreams are invaded by the "first slayer", she evectively kills willow(by drainin the life outof her ,zander (by riping his heart out) and giles by slashin him up,at the end she atacks buffy but of course she saves the day by realisin its a dream and not takin much notice of the fact that the first slayer is stabbin her in the chest.she even rats on her hair(meow).this season finale is an enjoyable one as all the buffy dreams sequences are funny,look out for oz,giles singin in the bronze,spike being hired out as an attraction and a very interestin scene involvin tara wilow zander and his ice cream van.... this episode also gives light on alot of things like(the arrival of buffys sister)(and other things like the future form buffy etc)

anyways enjoy the episode and ill post another spoiler about wat happens to spike,riley,anya,and joyce in season 5

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2001

ok its me again,,as i promised here are spoilers for season 5.

riley: riley becomes more and more unusual in season 5,,as you may know him and buffy do split up half way throug the season and he does leave,they split up because riley lets a few vampires bite him,,at first he had a crazy idea that if he was a vampire buffy would like him more .like she did with angel,,he almost lets a girl-vamp sire him buit stops her at the last second and from then onn he is addicted to the "rush" you get from havin a vampire bite you???? of course spike rats him out and shows buffy riley being biten by another vampire and obviously likes it asd he is payin her!!!!so after this he leaves and is rumoured to return inthe season 5 finale (which is an 100th episode special that sees the return of faith oz,devon,graham,and others) spike:as you may also know spike falls in love with buffy and becomes a softie becuase of it,,even turning down drusilla wen she returns wantin him bac,,he even goes as far as attempt to stake her to show his love for buffy (drusilla does not die). spike also has another shock instore as he realises his chip was deativated at then end of season 4 when the intitaitive was destroyed,,he finds this out around about the end of season 5 ,the reason it was hurtin him before then was because he was expectin it to,,and so his brain did it!!!he is also rumoured to do somethin very bad wen findin out he can kill again,, joyce: joyce sadly dies in season 5 ,,this causes much pain for buffy,,and also a fight for giles as he tries to get custody of dawn (buffys little sister,,ill post a spoiler a out her if anyone wants it) tara:tara isnt actually a demon,,her parents told her she was to control her,so tara thinks she is a demon until spike punches her to prove that she isnt as he gets another headache. anya: at joyces funeral anya becomes worried about her mortality and so enter dohffrin( demon who made her a vengence demon) to offer anya her powers bac,,expect surprisin results.

a litle word about dawn and the new BADDIE of the season,,dawn (buffs little sis) is actually a key to heaven and hell,,glory(new baddie) is after that key and so som holy ppl gave it a human form and sent it to the only person who could protect her ,buffy in the form of a little sister.....everyone even dawn thinks that she is buffy sister as they all have had fake memorys implanted in them,only buffy giles dawn and joyce find out the truth.note;dawn is not evil,as far as she knows shes 14 and buffys sister.glory is not a demon but a god,,she is much stronger than buffy and has beaten her every time they have met so far.

angel fans***** angel and his gang (cordy wesley and gunn) return to suny dale for a while to join forces with buffys gang to fight glory in the season finale,,,expect a great season finale and also guest appearences .

hope that helps out som ppl,ill check bac a few times and see if anyone wants to know more,,,,,i also have spoilers on darla,dru,xander,willow,giles,and angel....

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2001

ooooopssss sorry guys,,,i just looked at my first spoiler i posted and saw that i didnt mention that buffy saves the day in the end of season 4 and saves the others,they could only have died in their dreams if all of them died and since buffy stopped the first slayer they were all saved,,sorry if i caused confusion......

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2001

Daryl: if you look at the posts ahead of yours, you'll see that we WERE at the end of season four -- a year ago. We've seen all the same episodes you have. Thanks anyway.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2001