Macintosch G4 with Final cut Pro or a PC?????greenspun.com : LUSENET : Dirck Halstead : One Thread
Please, help me!
I am Swedish documentaryfilm student living in Barcelona, Spain.I really would need some great advice about video editing equipment. I have a Canon XL 1 and I am going to produce documentaries with the length of 35-60 minutes. What kind of computer shall I buy - a Mac G4 with the program Final Cut Pro, or shall I buy a PC and a Matrox RT2000 and work with Adobe Premier 5.1 c?? I do not want to buy something today that won4t work within a year or so....
Please, I really apreciate all tips I can get about platforms, cards and editing programs. Since I do not have any experience, I need to learn fast to "control" the stuff, so I won4t get lost in the jungle...
Saludos de Barcelona
-- Anna Wall (firstname.lastname@example.org), May 08, 2000
Anna, this is an easy one. You want a G4 (or a G3 450), with final cut pro.There is no comparison between this rig and a PC with Adobe.
You will need lots of harddrive. Promax sells an outboard 37 gig drive that will handle most projects of 60 minutes or less.Also be sure you get a copy of video cleaner.
-- dirck halstead (email@example.com), May 09, 2000.
While I agree 3000% with the assessment of using a Mac G4 over a PC based anything, I would hesitate to make the blanket statement to use Final Cut Pro. And I like PCs by the way, but not for graphic based computing.
Adobe Premiere 5.1c is my choice of software on the Mac G4. They have different interfaces and you should try them both before making a decision. Both programs are excellent.
-- Anthony Simuel (firstname.lastname@example.org), February 10, 2001.
I am a graphic Design student and I can honestly say you need a MAC. Although a PC is good for my web stuff, a MAC is what you want for Video Editing. Final Cut Pro is the best of the best. I have used it and it is easier to learn and use than a PC video editor. So my answer is get a G4 so you can use Final Cut Pro.
-- Tyler Phong (email@example.com), October 11, 2002.
Mac? pass... http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/2002/07_jul/features/cw_macvspc2.ht m
-- just read the link (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 30, 2002.
Why don't you try using an ATARI or Z8? It has all the advanced video editing power you need.
-- Lim Ong Yang (email@example.com), December 15, 2002.
Soy director de Video y Filmico, Nunca puedes comparar Final Cut Pro con Adobe Premiere, Final Cut Pro es un Programa Semi-profesional mientras
-- Jhowy López (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 23, 2003.
I think it weird to decide on SOFTWARE what PC to buy.
If you can afford a MAC and like Final cut Pro, go ahead.
But what would you buy if a final cut pro PC version was on the market???? think about it...
MAC is prestige... but the can crash also...
-- Jan (email@example.com), April 29, 2003.
Used g4 dual processor mac (1 gb memory) with final cut pro, used dual processor xeon 2.4ghz pc.
i like the pc better...
-- alex carlos (firstname.lastname@example.org), May 16, 2003.
well i do prefer work on a pc and use one myself with pinnacle dv pro but a certain Miss O'Leary begs to differ... she would hands down prefer the g4, me too i guess...
so there were these two muffins sittin in an oven...
one muffin looked to the other and said:
"boy its gettin pretty hot in here"
the other turned...
"HOLY CRAP A TALKING MUFFIN!!!"
so the moral of this is...
which muffin are you?
-- ben and anna (email@example.com), July 15, 2003.
Mac will take your money... they are overpriced for what they are. All mac is is a good marketing company. They create a cult of closed minded mac users. Again its all marketing. I have extensively used both PC and Mac. Macs desktop is counter intuitve, its a lousy GUI.
Get a PC. They are ten times cheaper than a mac. You will get more for your money. And Macs do crash more than PCs. Mac is loosing marketshare. Linux will have a bigger market share in less than a year. Many movie studios use Linux workstations. However i dont recomend Linux for personal use YET.
Go home Mac users. You have been brain washed by Steve Jobs into thinking that your computer is faster than a pc.
-- Graham Smith (firstname.lastname@example.org), July 18, 2003.
Hey, I work for a college and we have both premiere and FCP stations, I would NEVER EVER recomend that you buy a PC based on our expierience. no matter what people tell you, with a PC you will have hardware conflicts (it took us months to get our matrox realtime card to work with our Asus motherboard), memory leaks that are inherent to windows, and crazy software licences that require you to call customer service everytime you install you audio software. We cannot keep the PC side of our lab running. The Pc software will not image, and so the machines cannot be easily rebuilt. The macs are STABLE. It's not just about speed, however I dare anyone who says their PC is faster than a Dual G4 to set them up side by side, and encode a full quality DVD on them and see wich gets done first. FCP is also the industry standard and intergrates whith everything.
-- Elan (email@example.com), August 06, 2003.
Lousy GUI ? have you not seen os x ? FCP is by far abetter editing suite, adobe premiere is not professional software premiere is only one step above software meant for editing home videos. it doesn't even begin to offfer what final cut pro offers. And in response to your comments about the price, yes macs are more expensive but im willing to pay that extra money for an operating system that is actually made to run on my computer as opposed to having to be made to run on the multitude of processors out there in the pc world, yes having so many different processors to choose from makes the prices cheaper it's the nature of competition but it also takes a toll on the reliabilty of your OS. if you don't believe me on this one just take a look at this "Win32 blaster" worm that was all over the news just yesterday in the US (August 12, 2003)
-- Jesse Newton (firstname.lastname@example.org), August 13, 2003.
The answer is simple get a PC and use Avids Xpress DV. Very simple. It doesn't crash and if a far more superior software program than Final cut. Trust me. As for the computers any new Dell will run Xpress DV for a lot less money than a G4.
-- Mr Edit (email@example.com), August 20, 2003.
Can't we all just get along??? I own a wedding DJ business and am getting into wedding video. Just bougth a sony pd150 and all the videographers I know (In San Diego) all say FCP is the shit! I heard some names mentioned here for PC software...Adobe premiere and XpressDV...I don't feel like dropping another 2 grand for mac computer since I already have three PC laptops at home...does anyone know any other good PC Video Editing Software programs that are good for a standard computer? (p4, 2ghz 512mbram)...also, how much memory do I need...none of my laptops have more than 40gb's...but I do have several firewire external HD's..do these work? Also, what else do I need to buy?... Last comment, instead of getting into a pissing contest about PC vs Mac...how about getting more specific on the details of what each software does/does not do...Like, what makes fcp so special...is it just more user friendly or has more features than premiere or whatever else there is out there?
Thanks...if possible please also email me your responses to firstname.lastname@example.org
-- Allen (email@example.com), August 21, 2003.
PS What happened to that sweedish gal that did the initial posting?
None of you invited her over to the states...shame on you all
-- Allen (firstname.lastname@example.org), August 21, 2003.
I have never used FCP so I can't comment on that. However, I have used Avid Media Composer and Express DV as well as Premiere. I much rather using Avid simply because I get around better. To to say Premiere is hard to use but I just rather Avid. The thing is, when it comes on to rendering your effects and such. You have to make up your mind to spend some extra cash on a Digital Nonlinear Accelerator (DNA) to get the real kick out of avid. But for Premiere you can send anywere from $200 up for a RT card (Real Time) like the Canopus Raptor RT. Trust me to get the best out of any of the two apps you can't depend on just your system resources, it's best to get the mojo for Avid (when it comes out in a few months), or get any RT card if you plan to use Premiere.
-- Chauvaughn (email@example.com), August 21, 2003.
Macs are for Blondes, they have the looks but not the brains! The new G5 is impressive and they are leading the way again in terms of power but there are PC Systems out of this world in development. It's like a tango, but I'm with PC's for one reason and that is you have a million different configurations to suit your individual needs and at good prices. With popular pro edit solutions on the market including: Avid Xpress DV/Pro and Sonic Foundry Vegas 4.0 we should all dig out the pennies from the back of the sofa and build a machine that will serve your needs without costing an arm and a couple of legs. Plus with little hassle you can upgrade and repair in an instant. PC's are even starting to look sexy these days! ROCK ON! PC USERS (PS: I know I'm sad... but I'm very passionate about my work in the editing industry and PC is my tool)
-- Darrell Pringle (Dazabrit@yahoo.co.uk), August 30, 2003.
Mac sucks as much as french so does Final Cut Pro.It doesnt matter wat machines you get as creativity is always pramount.
-- Macsux (firstname.lastname@example.org), September 09, 2003.
Is there a way to get FCP to run on a PC?
-- Steve Wolf (email@example.com), September 09, 2003.
It's hard to get a straight answer on this topic, because it is an emotional issue for many users (which baffles me somewhat).
There is alot of anti-PC and anti-Windows rhetoric that has more to do with personal politics than with practical comparison. The independant film community, which is driving the DV editing market right now, tends to be politically left-of-center, and that generally means anti-big corporation, and thus anti-Microsoft.
There is some truth to stories about hardware conflicts, etc,with PCs, but that is a result of the overwhelming number of possible configurations and hardware upgrades available for PC, and the frequent attempts of less than qualified people who attempt to do these upgrades themselves. If you are not in the least technically inclined, then the simplicity of the Mac platform is a better choice, no doubt. As a creative artist, you will be in good company as a Mac user. If you are an artist first, and a computer user second (out of necessity rather than facination) you are more apt to "fit" the Mac.
On the other hand, if you are a natural tinkerer, have a genuine interest in techical things, like to watch DIscovery Channel specials where they build things, or were the kind of kid who liked to take your toys apart to see how they worked, then you will probaly be more at home on a PC. The PC offers more bang for your buck, and and gives you greater potential and options for upgrading to higher end video cards, capture cards, and new software.If PC is your choice for professional work, don't go bargain basement shopping for a Compaq or HP or build-it-yourself. For serious work, a PROFESSIONAL grade PC, like a Dell Precision Workstation, IBM workstation, etc is the way to go.
-- Frankster (firstname.lastname@example.org), September 13, 2003.
> On the other hand, if you are a natural tinkerer, have a genuine interest in techical things, like to watch DIscovery Channel specials where they build things, or were the kind of kid who liked to take your toys apart to see how they worked, then you will probaly be more at home on a PC. <
I agree with this. I teach video at a small community college. We used Macs for years and had no end of conflicts with them and Premiere. So I gradually helped move the program to PCs, and stability and productivity have improved immensely. Since I'm one of those "tinkerers," I help configure, modify and maintain all of those machines, and that IMO is a necessity. If you're going to own a PC, then you have to be willing to get your hands dirty with them. You have to know which motherboard likes which video card that will work with what kind of capture device, and on and on. I enjoy that sort of masochism. So if you're willing to learn about PC hardware, then PCs can be a really powerful, stable and inexpensive video platform.
But if you just want stuff to work with minimal hassles and you don't mind spending a ton of money, Apples can be okay. But I know lots of Apple users who are having no end of compatibility issues....
In our labs now, the advanced students are using Premier 5.1c. All beginning students start off with Pinnacle's Studio 8.8, which IMO is a terrific entry-level editing suite. We use P4 1.8ghz systems with 256mb of DDR2100 memory, 64mb nVidia G-Force4 graphics cards, dual hard drives (a 20gb system drive and a 60gb storage drive) and DVD burners, and we have very few problems. The students love the software. The most expensive component in each of those systems was the burner. I build my own similar systems at home and always spend less than $800. So stable PCs can be made, and made cheaply.
-- Jay (email@example.com), September 17, 2003.
hello, iam non linear editor and already use both the computer G4 and Matrox-2000 and i ll sujest u the matrox-2000 because its more reliable system as compare to G4 and in final cut pro ther are so many bugs it cant handle the fottage in its orignal condition .Alots of problem with G4 with final cut pro .
-- adnan (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 07, 2003.
I work with both the G5 platform with Final Cut Pro and PC platform running Premiere and the only difference is the titling. The text approach with Final Cut Pro is amazing but i rather work with the PC environment because of it's flexibility.
-- david ayeni (email@example.com), October 13, 2003.
Hi, my name is Luis
I'm a AutoCAD/Architectural Desktop Tech. and I just start into this video editing and 3D Animation stuff. I start first doing some audio mix (thats when I discover Sonic Foundry Products) and then i start playing with some videos, using Vegas Video after that I start using Dvd Architect to engineer some DVDs. All this programs are really easy to use and now I'm ready to xplore other programs.
I didn't buy a Mac for many reasons, (money, compatibility and I wasn't sure of how the program that I use were gone work with Virtual PC on Mac. Well I decide to costumize one PC and end-up with a AMD MP (DUAL PROCESSOR) a Readon 9000 (128 mb) DVD+/- RW, CD-RW, AudioPhile sound card and other stuff, all for $1,964 when for a Mac with the same specs. (well, with the G4 would be a little bit faster) I would end up paying almost $3,000
But 'till now, works more than fine for me
-- Luis Hernandez (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 16, 2003.
I work at a local public access station and have switched between G4/FCP and PC/AVID XPRESS DV and here is what i've found: FCP has more bugs and crashes more often than AVID. FCP is easier to learn and to me, less stressful to edit a project. If a person had little or no experience with PC editing software and MAC software, I would suggest buying a PC. The only way I personally would buy a MAC with FCP is becuase its what I started learning on and its easier to use:)
-- Matt T. (email@example.com), November 17, 2003.
Anna, I work for a certain computer chip manufacturer and do video editing as a hobby on the side. One advantage I have in the market of PC's versus Mac is I get to talk with software developers who create the software and plugins being used in hollywood and independent filmaking all the time. To answer your question with as little bias as possible I will say this:
Mac's are incredible machines and to put them down is arrogant. However, PC's are also very powerful and to discard them as not viable in graphics and video editing markets is ignorant, just look at the Spiderman movie that used pc's to create many of their graphics for the film and are using them again for SpiderMan 2. Mac users love mac because Apple has done an excellent job of controlling the hardware and software markets made for mac to ensure optimum stability. Pc's are sort of a more free market and so there is a lot of crap out there as well as wonderful stuff, so when you have crap on your system it is easy to blame the pc for your problems which is what many mac users have done thus leaving them with a bad taste in their mouth about PC's. But if you get a PC with all the right parts and software then you are in for a treat. So here is my suggestion, If you choose mac, listen to the mac gurus and get what they have already suggested which I am sure will be great. If you choose a PC then here is my suggestion so you will have a system with software and hardware that is compatable and very very stable:(All prices I found will be in U.S. Dollars- sorry I don't know the conversion rates or if it's a better deal outside the U.S.)
1. Video Card- Matrox card (doesn't have to be the parhelia series, could be the P series) or a video card based on the Nvidia Quadro NVS chipset, just make sure it's a dual head card. The ability to use two monitors and a tv is a must now days. The cost for these cards will be anywhere from $150 to $400. You decide. I prefer cheaper myself, but not at the sacrifice of quality, but with these type of cards that is not an issue. 2. Software- I am not fond of Adobe premier not because it doesn't have great features but because of the many complaints of it crashing quite often (I am one of those complainers that have experienced this numerous times). I am suprised that no one has mentioned Sonic Foundry's Vegas 4, which has actually been bought by Sony Pictures and an academic version will only cost you around $150 U.s. dollars. This is definitely a program to give Final Cut Pro and even bigger guys like Avid Xpress a headache. Read up on Vegas, you'll be amazed at what professionals have to say about it. There is a reason Sony Pictures Studios wanted to associate themselves with this program. I use it and it is truly amazing what it can do and how much quicker it does things for you as well as being the most stable program I have ever used. People stuck on old versions of Final Cut pro or Adobe premier are really missing out on the real time capablities of new programs today like Vegas unless they have the newer versions of those other programs. 3. Operating system- Another reason the PC has not been liked by mac users is the instability of Windows until now. Windows 2000 and XP are extremely stable, especially for video editing and graphics intensive applications. I personally use XP. I also hear great things from software developers about Linux. It is extremely stable and Matrox cards do work with Linux, but I don't believe there is a Vegas version for Linux and therefore would go with Winows XP just to use Vegas. Believe me this program is worth it!!! OEM versions of Windows Xp or XP pro are only $100-$200 dollars. Retail versions are $199-$299. The only difference between OEM and Retail is if you have a problem with windows, the retail version lets you stick the disk in and choose fix rather than reinstalling the Operating system. Sounds good but the truth is 99% of the time it doesn' work and it is best to reinstall anyways which I haven't had to do because I've had no problems and usually problems are due to other software and not the OS. 4.Processor- I have an Intel P4 2.4 Ghz (Hyperthreaded)personally. Xeon, which is also and Intel Processor is even better but only worth it if you are willing to put the money into a dual processor system. AMD is also a good processor and the Athlon XP 2600+ is a close camparison to the P4 2.4 and usually a cheaper way to go. The reason I went with the P4 is because there are more graphics intensive programs and plugins out there that are coded specifically to take advantage of the P4 features versus AMD right now meaning they will run faster on a P4 and smoother. But if you are a gamer then AMD has some advantages over P4, mainly the fact that many gaming software developers optimize their codes for AMD, and on the flip side most video editing and capture programs optimize for P4. Video editing and gaming are two different worlds but AMD is still not a bad choice for video editing. Just make sure to buy the ThermalTake Volcano fan for the AMD processor to keep it running and optimal cool temperatures for the times you do intensive things like encoding your video to MPG or other formats. The prices on these are around $170 for the P4 2.4 gh (800 FSB) make sure you get the processor with the 800 FSB and not the 533 FSB (Front System Bus), they are roughly the same price but the 800 is faster. $110 for the AMD Athlon XP 2600+. 5. Motherboard: This is very important. A) if you get a Pentium 4, then I suggest an Intel motherboard like the D865PERL which sells for around $130.00 or an Abit motherboard called the Abit iS7 i865PE wich sells for around $105. Some people prefer Asus motherboards as well, which I am sure is just as sound as long as it has the Intel chipset(865pe or 875) on it, it doesn't make sense to get an Intel processor and not a chipset that has been created by the same company to ensure optimum compatability. B) if you get an AMD Athlon then you need to make sure to get a motherboard with an Nvidia chipset (Other chipsets may have compatability issues with your Video card or programs) such as an Abit NF7-S nForce2 The nforce 2 is the nvidia chipset. About $105. 6.Memory- This one is simple. Most all memory brands out there will suffice. Corsair is one of the most renowned. The more memory the better. You spend anywhere from $100 for 512 MB whichis really the lowest you want, up to $200 for 1GB or even more. These prices are based on PC3200 sticks of memory which is the fastest you can get right now running at 400 MHz! One important note though. You can only use 2 sticks of memory when going with PC3200 or other times called DDR400 because of timing issues. So you want either two sticks of 256 for 512 MB of memory or you want two sticks of 512 for 1000 MB or 1GB of memory. Hard Drive- Once again I find most brands to be just fine. You can choose from IBM, Seagate,or Maxtor, all very good brands. The choice you have to make is whether to go with Serial ATA or just plain ATA. The difference; Serial ATA writes a little faster and a lot faster if you buy two and have a raid configuration. If you don't know what that means, in fact if most of this is too technical for you just have the local computer shop put together a system configuration suggested here and they will know what to do and you won't have to worry about anything but your video editing. If you have a friend who can do it for you, great, just make sure they know what they are doing. Hard drive space is important. Now back to hard drives. You can never have enough hard drive space. 120 GB ATA hard drive is now around $100 and you will likely want more than that if you can.
DVD Burner- You of course need to consider a good DVD Burner for your system and I hear that Sony makes great ones and Pioneer also has some great ones. The price will be around $200.
Misc. Don't forget a floppy drive for those lame things you sometimes still need a floppy drive for and a modem card for Internet if your not going to hook up to a cable modem or DSL. Also if you are going to use the internet make sure you have a good anti virus program and Internet firewall which both are usually supplied with the motherboard. And of course, don't forget a Computer case and case fans to house and cool all this stuff in.
I think that about covers it. Sorry for the long discourse. Like I said, you don't have to worry about the technical stuff I mentioned here, just have someone experienced, like a computer shop put the configurations I suggested here together and you will have an incredibly stable video editing solution. I figure it will cost you anywhere from $700 to $2000 or even up to $2500 depending on the software you choose but not including the computer monitors which you can get from $50 on up. In my opinion, if you follow my advice you will have a more powerful if not at least equally powerful system compared to a Mac G4, But you will have a better NLE program using Vegas 4- you will be amazed at what you can create. The only hard thing about my suggestion is you seem to speak as if you are already familiar with Adobe Premier and using Vegas will require a short learning curve as it's philosophy of how you edit is a little different than products like Adobe and Ulead and Final cut pro. If your stuck on Adobe, great it is a fine product and perhaps runs more stable for you and therefore will work just fine with the type of system I have outlined here. Either way, Pc's like this, not your off the shelf systems, will run just as good and stable as any Mac will.
-- Patrick Derbidge (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 19, 2003.
I agree Vegas RULES!
I just recently purchased 2 Dell workstations for editing. One mobile M60 and one Desktop Precision 360. The reason I got them was my business was moving more and more from Prepress and Retouching to Web stuff and eventually video editing. I had always wored on a Mac except for a brief perion on a Unix workstation and the occasional jump into PC land because of necessity.
I wanted to make the right decision so I didn't waste my time learning software that wasn't right for me. I had Final Cut Pro but When Apple eliminated support for my Ibook which was just a little over a year old and the fact thay there was no visual color correction support and that the sound capabilities were very weak. I started looking around. Pinnicle Edition Avid Express, Premiere Pro and Vegas.
I must say that I sat down with Vegas and after a few hours with the interface was able to put together my own 1 hr movie with my own Loop soundtrack and eliminate background noise on the film with Acid Pro and SoundForge. Which are tightly integrated into Vegas..
Now with plugin capibilities with Boris Red. What more do you need.
I love my Mac but with the last round of OSs I am just about to tell apple to go screw off. If you have any legacy hardware. Scsi devices especially forget it. Also the latest systems have really bizarre problems with all kinds of PCI cards.
This is the bottom line. If you have a rather limited scope of hardware and software that you buy new and test before that all works well together or you buy it at the Apple store or reseller that will give you all your money back in 30 days if it doesn't work out you may be more comfortable with the mac.
If not go to Videoguys.com and look around and email them. They are extremely helpful and can put together something in your budget.
Also go to Dell's website on Refurbished workstations and you can get a great deal. And come up with a faster box than the top of the line G5 for about 1500.00 or so. But you may have to do a few small upgrades yourself (memory etc) if you go this route.
Also there are great video forums at:www.dmnforums.com Hope this helps. I am soooo pissed with Apple about the scsi thing.
-- Bob (email@example.com), November 24, 2003.
Anna's question to this problem was from May 8th 2000. This statement speaks for itself...
-- reality smith (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 25, 2003.
Maybe Anna hasn't made her purchase yet smart allec.(= Hopefully not because Vegas is the way to go on a PC.
-- Mr. Pro (email@example.com), December 02, 2003.
Macs suck so bad you couldn't use one any time of day. PCS INVENTED THE MAC, if it wasn't for windows, the mac wouldn't of been around, so there wouldn't even be a FCP, or whatever dumb ass name it is. I did a test with my mac, and my cool DELL, which is much swankier, and I opened photoshop, my dell was like open before i blinked, but the mac was still loading 30 seconds later, then it crashed and reset my network causing my all my colleagues in our office to loose their work. In other words, macs are whack, and I know for a fact if you edit on a PC, it will be broadcast quality, unlike FCP, which is known to only go up to 1000 colors (100000 in the industry).
bottom line is, if you want a computer which will get on your nerves, make you want to smash it with your fists, crash just when you've configured the whole network and say "sorry its not my fault" in steven hawkin's voice every time you empty the trash, then get a mac. IF on the other-hand, i.e. you, want to do loads of filming in spain and get a degree and become a director...choose the worlds number one choice over everything else...the humble, PC. I rest my case.
-- smithy (billsmithY2K@aol.com), December 04, 2003.
-- smithy (billsmithY2K@aol.com), December 04, 2003.
I feel the urge to reply here being that a simple question has turned into a forum of MAC's versus PC"s.
I am a musician about to finish a CD who has become heavily involved in the film/video world. I am about to get editing software myself. Seven years ago I began on an Apple. Thing crashed a week after buying it and I had to have the harddrive replaced. I was cool about it considering Apples customer service sucked badly. Most companies at the time had either no software available for MAC's or had software that had conflicts, errors, etc. when used with MAC's. But I was a loyal MAC user. Evetually I decided to give Apple another chance and I replaced this computer with a G4. Apart from a few major OS problems in the begining, all was OK. 2 years later I had to replace the fan which happened to be attatched to the power supply. This really changed my whole attitude on everything.
Apple is very proprietary so it ended up costing me almost $300 dollars to get fixed. NO one would sell me the parts but they would get the part and install it themselves. Apple's customer service (again) really sucked as well as many other avenues I tried at Apple. I was told by many people that THE SAME SITUATION WITH A PC WOULD HAVE COST NO MORE THAN $75.
NOw here is the thing...I used to be one of those people who said, "Bill Gates sucks" "I'll never use his products...screw him." "Who does he think he is? Does he think he can take over the world" Well, I'll tell ya.... I realized that apart from my odd and unfair hatred of Microsoft I had to be honest and say their Windows Media PLayer was much better than RealPLayer, QuickTime, and a few others I had tried. Windows XP is alot better and pretty fast...starts up in 10-15 seconds. The new Apple OS system is ok but at times it seems to have gone backwards in accessibility. Takes a while to start up. It seems (from what many computer engineers tell me), that Apple's OS is morphing into Linux. I could be wrong about this but I do know that Linux is growing.... Windows XP is much much better than past versions... ultimately it would be great if most-all software makers had products that supported and ran on Linux. This day will come soon I hope.
My point (one of them that is)..is that Apple is becoming irrelevant in terms of OS systems and other software. Their computers (and here is my main point) are way too expensive, not always reliable, and will be extinct in 5 years. THERE IS ONLY ONE REASON APPLE EXISTS... FINAL CUT PRO. IF Apple wasn't so f#@&ing proprietary with FCP and made a version for PC, people would have no reason to buy an Apple.
I do graphics, web design, record and edit music, and about to edit film/video. Most of my friends and associates in the music world use Pro Tools. Well you can get Pro Tools (Digidesign/Avid)in a PC version....don't need a MAC. Most of my friends and associates in the film/video/post production world use MAC's and FCP. But I am seeing a change in people, in the mood and opinions of others, and more and more people I see are trying products other than FCP and a MAC.
I now own a Dell with 2 internal HD's, and external, DVD burning and CD burning, floppy, 2 monitors going on at same time, USB AND Firewire, I have a gig of memory and run at 3.06 GHz with Hyper Threading technology. I would have sex with this machine if I could. The other guy (above) appologized for being too detatiled or emotional....I could care less...I have no appologies. If possible, I would marry my freaken computer if I could. It is that cooooool. No problems. Does everything except make coffee. I should do a commercial for Dell.....thats how much I am pleased with my situation.
Another point....if I have a problem, it won't be costing me 10 times as much if I had a MAC. Another point....the last two people I talked to who purchased a G5 from Apple had problems galore. If you read other message boards, you will see some people are pissed off and feel like they were sold a beta-test. Last point.....I am about to get editing software and have decided not to even think of getting a MAC...the hell with Steve Jobs, let him sell hot dogs. I will probably get Avid Xpress DV or Sonic's (sony) Sound Forge...which is a very interesting side note that someone said above.... Sony bought this company. What does that tell you? I gotta tell you, take what you can from all this...and I don't want to sound too anti-Apple, I just think their time is done. If enough people in the world stopped using FCP (which does have many crashes and quirks) and started using other programs, Apple would have their i-tunes and thats it. By the way, I just came from a friend of mines place who does editing, he has 5 Apples including G5's. Whats with the lack of space to add internal drives. Only four are possible. Seems like another design flubb. "Dohh!"
-- tommyboy (firstname.lastname@example.org), December 05, 2003.
sorry.....in the last paragraph above where i mentioned sonic's (sony's) sound forge.... i meant to say sony's Vegas 4.0.
-- tommyboy (email@example.com), December 06, 2003.
As one of those independent filmmakers you guys seem to talk about, I'd like to throw in my two bits.
To date, I've made 14 short films, ranging in length from under a minute to 12 minutes. With one exception, they've all been shot on MiniDV, edited in Adobe Premiere on a PIII-1GHz PC running XP. Effects and titles in After Effects, Lightwave and Digital Fusion.
The one exception wasn't shot at all, the elements were downloaded from the web (www.archive.org) and edited as above.
Why this system as opposed to FCP/Mac? Two reasons: money and adaptability. Macs are fine systems, for people who want to do their thing & not get into the 'guts' of their system. I think someone else mentioned that, so I won't belabor the point. They cost way more, and offer some amount of greater reliability. If you're not into all the techno-stuff. I am.
My attitude toward filmmaking was to just dive in & start. I had a PC, so I needed a camera (Sony TRV-950) and and editing system. I didn't know about Vegas or Avid for PC, so I chose Premiere. Anything it can't do, I can do in other software.
Sometimes you have to stop arguing & start DOING. Judging from Anna's silence, I'm guessing that's what she did.
Good luck to you all. - G
-- Geoff (firstname.lastname@example.org), December 09, 2003.
Tommy boy who doyou tink you are? I have been using a PC for as long as I can remember, and it hasn't had ANY problems. I love my DELL, and I reckon I'll still be usin it in about 20 years. My MAC sucks big time, Its so old and crashes in OSX resettin everything and everyone complains about it, so it's usually sat i a corner gatherin dust mites and stuff. It's loaded up with FCP, but who needs it? I never have done, as an independent film maker, i prefer to use reliable software like Microsoft Video cut, and premiere etc... MY POINT is... ..if you want to be successful like me, ANNA then get the PC, forget the MAC, and get on with your films, you've been haning over this question WAY to long, and as the experts say, TIME IS MONEY! Please let us know as SOON as you get the PC up and running, and have the courtesy to reply to our messages.
Summary: MACS performace =6% PCS performance =98%
-- Bill Smith (billsmithY2K@aol.com), December 23, 2003.
Okay, first of all, Anna is Spanish and not Swedish...and then I don't think it makes a difference as a site like that helps when you have to decide whether to go with Apple or PC. We edited a 60 minutes documentary on FCP and Apple computer and the powerbook. It sucked badly. But having seen Avid 70 K systems crash as well and Premier on PCs I am not sure what to do. I am thinking of getting the Acer Ferrari Laptop (it looks quite funky) and use Premiere on it. It has an AMD 2500+, so I am not sure that is enough. Also all my friends and collegues use Apple, so I don't know, if we can even edit together, exchange work? What do the experts think? Cheers, Al
-- Al (email@example.com), December 30, 2003.
I cold bought a MAC about a year ago (dual 867 G4) having never even used one before just because of the reputation for video editing on these machines. I have successfully edited numerous videos for my own personal use that look like they were done professionally using only FCP and Adobe AfterEffects. I have produced films varying from one to about 15 minutes in length and have never had a complaint about the ease of use or the capabilities of my computer. I was able to learn the MAC interface and programs including FCP very easily. I can count on one hand the times that FCP has crashed in the past year. This stuff just works. Buy a MAC, run FCP 4.0, you won't regret it. As a side note, check out some snowboarding videos, notably the stuff being produced by Robot Food (www.robotfood.com). Their videos are produced using FCP. That's proof enough for me.
-- Jarod (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 06, 2004.
There are so many different opinions for Anna Wall's question of "FCP or Premiere Pro?"
I've always heard that FCP is the film and television industry standard. A suggestion: Edit a couple of films using the latest Premiere Pro, and also edit a couple of films using the latest FCP. Pick the system that is easiest to use, the quickest, and offers the necessary features. Look for non-profit video or filmmaking organizations in your city, that offer affordable editing rooms for rent. (In Toronto, great film and video art organizations are: the Liasion for Independant Filmmakers of Toronto --- L.I.F.T. ---- www.lift.on.ca ; Trinity Square Video ----- www.trinitysquarevideo.com Or, just rent a few hours at your local video camera shop.
For PC fans: Check out the software, Canopus DVStorm2Pro+ at www.canopus.com
-- Ed Rosario (email@example.com), January 20, 2004.
1, Anna there is no jungle in barcelona, I've been there. 2, how come every time I come back to review your response, there is none? I recently bought a G5 and it crashed. get a PC, get microsoft cut pro 5, get anything PC and it'll work no worries. Stop confusing Anna everyone, let her speak.
-- Bill Smith (billsmithY2K@aol.com), January 20, 2004.
To save money on editing software, look for educational versions (student editions). The only difference in an educational version is less paper-brochures. For example, Final Cut Pro: regular version---$1500 Canadian dollars; educational version--- $500. Available at participating college/university software stores. If you don't have valid student I.D., then ask a student to accompany you to the store.
-- Ed Rosario (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 21, 2004.
Yes, systems will crash. Bottom line: to avoid crashes when using lots of video/audio, you'll just have to spend the extra money for the dual processors, extra RAM, and extra hard drives. Besides that, the best software is whichever software that you find is the easiest to use, the quickest, and the most complete in features.---be sure the program supports 16:9 aspect ratio, and can format for broadcast requirements. PC users, check out: DVStorm at www.canopus.com MAC users, check out: Media100i, and 844/X, at www.media100.com Remember to look for the affordable educational versions---these versions require student I.D., or, just ask a student to accompany you at participating college/university-affiliated software stores. Before deciding on an editing system, rent fully equiped editing suites and test different systems. Caution: Using a friend's home system might lead to crashes due to hardware limitations. Therefore, rent a couple of suites to know, for certain, of a software's value.
-- Ed Rosario (email@example.com), January 21, 2004.
I think we all like anna in our hearts a little bit. I suggest getting a Mac, they are a lot less hassle. good night
-- Simon Heester (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 21, 2004.
FORGET ABOUT NON-LINEAR EDITING SYSTEMS. SHOOT IN REAL FILM AND D.A.T. RECORDER, AND CUT A FILM THE TRADITIONAL WAY(WITH A SPLICER OR FLATBED). Computer systems that cost thousands of dollars become obsolete in only two years. Get a Super8 movie camera and make a real film, not video. Or, take up sculpting or drawing and painting, or do some writing. So many people are so dependant on shapes and pictures, and think of themselves as being very literate when all these people read are the newspapers(which is, by the way, 8th grade level reading), and technical manuals. Read a Pullitzer Prize(U.S.) winning, or Governor General's Award(Canada) winning novel or book of poems. Read literary classics of different cultures. Do your own study on art and theatre. Play a musical instrument or practice dramatic monologues with friends---even experiment with street theatre on a nice day. If you and friends are bored, then just have sex like chimpanzees wherever you may be----home, hall of shopping mall, altar in a church, downtown sidewalk, cafeteria tables, bookstore checkout counter, at the library checkout counter, or even in front of the post office during rush hour. It is not neceassary to spend thousands of dollars every couple of years for plastic and metal(computers) to produce something of great quality. Use whatever is readily available. Be resourceful and don't be so materialistic. When all else fails, good sex is with friends always makes things better---even with a little bit of anal-oral or "tongue-in-the-bum."
-- Ed (email@example.com), January 23, 2004.
-- Simon Heester (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 24, 2004.
Anyone who said "Buy a PC for Video editing" don't know anything about video editing. Becaus everyone who does knows that a MAC is the computer to use for video editing.
-- Christiaan (email@example.com), January 25, 2004.
I am the real simon heester, who is this imposter using my email and name?
-- Simon Heester (firstname.lastname@example.org), February 05, 2004.
Simple, this question was asked years ago. Whatever you buy is obsolete a few months later. Get a PC, with XP Pro(not home)and some great software. Personal Experience on a G5 made me laugh, when my P4 3.2 EE ran things quite a bit faster... Of course I'm one of those Die hard Intel freaks, that just likes to Mock MAC users for the silly hopes... APPLE brags how there G5 is set up to create a super computer... wow... 1100 G5's to make a super computer.... link 300 P4 3.2EE PC together... guess what? 1.34 times faster has been done and said. Enjoy your death APPLE (BTW loved the iPod with a non replaceable battery, $300 to get it replaced??? sod off, did it myself with a few tools from radio shack)
-- Rook Dekai (email@example.com), February 26, 2004.
yeh! apples are well gay! i can't believe my college uses them for graficss work! what the hell are they thinking!! apple is going to die soon with their dumbass producs like the powerbook! thinest laptop in the world my balls, and the g5 is slower than my Pentium 2. and apple people are immature always saying that pcs are rubbish, who invented the personal comuoter? the PC (personal computer) or the MAC (whatever that means), so i rwest my case, PEECEES are COOL macs SUCK, so kiss my ass, both cheeks
-- gorodon (firstname.lastname@example.org), February 27, 2004.
Apple's Final Cut Pro 4 with a G4 or G5 Processor is more than enough. Mac OS X does not crash ever (At least as far I as have used it with FPC, Flash, Photoshop, DW, and Fwx) It is very stable. If there ever is an instance when a program faisl to repsond in OS X, the system closes the program and gives you a message saying that it has done so and that the system has not been in anyway affected. The PowerPC processor line is completly differnt than the x86 line so don't use the Mhz thing. Look at benchmarks (and don't try comparing Premiere on Mac with PC, becuase Mac will be slower, BUT FPC vs. Premiere on Windows! Mac wins clearly. Its not always the computer, but the way the software was written). AND macs arent overpriced at all the equivilant of a PowerMac G5 Middle Model ($1500) in PC is like $3000 (USD). Finish using PC's and move on so something with more power and a little more sense.
www.apple.com/switch/ Apple. Think.
(I do not represent Apple Computers in any way. The use of the Apple name and all related trademarks or property is simply in a review stance. All trademarks copyright thier respective owners if applicable.)
-- I forget (email@example.com), February 27, 2004.
-- Peter (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 08, 2004.
To answer your quetion from May 8th 2000 ? Yes to the first question No to the last.
I have a new question; Can any one give a non-bias answer to the question?
I to am debating weither to switch to Pc or update my Mac Hardware. The world seems to have gone soft, Microsoft. Or am I following the sheep?
-- Maurice Shourot (email@example.com), March 09, 2004.
Good grief anna - have you nor read the pages and pages of stuff above. Do you really need more opinions.
My 2 cents- I use a Pro built, Martrox RT2000 system on an AMD processor and its fine - worked fine for me. Occasional restart required but then I do have 1000 gig of hard drive - so it's under a bit of pressure. and it is about 5/6 years old. The thing is this - try premiere on an RT system and see if you can deal with it - it may annoy you - as it just doesn't always do what you want. For example mine will not allow cut and paste of clips. Never has. Other premiere set ups do allow it though. + for big projects the bins in Premiere are tricky and not the best set up - they do not allow easy sharing between projects - so you cannot easliy edit a long video in different projects but using the same bins.
FCP has joyous voice-over kit adnd sound syncing stuff for one.
BUT AVID DV epxress has it all - on PC.
I like Premiere and can work round it's limitations. But if you were to start again - go for AVID. Perhaps try AVID DV express on your Mac for a while. It's not as intuative as FCP but if you like it then you will be working on the industry standard.
If you hate the AVID Stick with Mac - you know it - this is really important - you know what can be done and how. - FCP is better than Premiere (at the moment) and not available on PC. - it is an industry standard
In fact I would be inclined to stay with it as you have started with it. It's harder to go the other way.
It will cost you more- but prob. worth it. And that's from a man who has a PC system - so you can't say fairer than that.
Can I just say that Maxtor 7200, 250gig external firewire and usb 2.0 drives rock. and cost less than £200! (UK man)
-- bol (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 18, 2004.
Hey maurice! whats happening budda bing! i can give you a non bias answer to the question because you is a one of the family, yes. You should switch to the pc my friend, you must be a sheep and follow the microsoft like the sheep that you are.
-- Tony (email@example.com), March 19, 2004.
please Anna be wise
Apple is HEAVEN & Dell is HELL !!
Panther is super & Windoze looks bad
Mac is silent & PC's are noisy
-- peter neverlies (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 20, 2004.
Umm... People. Anna is gone. Shes not responding. Enough with this stupid argument over pcs or macs. For all those people who are in love with their pcs or macs, go tell your friends. g2g
-- Jake Daleer (email@example.com), March 23, 2004.
Why are there people who say "everyone knows Mac is better for video editing" and "mac OSX never crashes"? What world are you living in?
It's more an issue of project requirements and personal preferences. Have all of you who make such blanket, cult-inflected statements used BOTH platforms with the MOST RECENT product updates??
I have both a G5 dual 2.0 w/1gb ram running FCP 4.0 on a panther system, and I also have a PC system with a Gigabyte 8KNXP 800fsb motherboard with 1gb ram running Windows XP Pro and Adobe Premiere Pro, and you know what...?
I PREFER Adobe Premiere Pro by far... and my PC is FASTER than the G5 running FCP.
Some of you people need to take off the marketing blinders and wake up to reality. There are pros and cons with both platforms.
-- Chris Lee (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 01, 2004.
Mac is HEAVEN, Dell is HELL, Alienware is...also HEAVEN!
PC and MAC are both good, just get what you prefer and deal with it... losers
-- Jumps (email@example.com), April 04, 2004.
Silly consumers. Macs are McDonalds-PopCulture-Flashy-MoneyHole- PrettyShinyThings. Stupid people like pretty shiny things....
If you have ever heard REEL (snicker) film-vid freaks/studio geeks talk about digital editing in an excited way, its because they are talking about AVID. For a reason. But admitedly, it's not for the "hobbiest" or casual user. It takes a finely tuned, made-for-that- purpose PC to really get your bang-for-the-buck. And a devotion to learning and producing material.
Want to tinker around? Make silly home-style flicks? (NOTHING wrong with THAT by the way, just NOT the same thing...) Buy a Mac then, and be prepared to throw it away in a few years, spend a crapload more for a *new* one.... (ug.)
But... If you are *serious* about editing/creating film/vid, SPEND THE GAWD-DAMNED MONEY! Get a Fast processer (or two, if you can. Dual is Kewl.), multiple drives, snappy fast vid-card, burners, ect, on a PC!! And down the line, you will be able to salvage the parts, cards, case, ect... all the things that STILL DO WORK, and get rid of outdated PARTS, not the whole PC!!
Oh yeah, I prefer APP over FCP. 'Nuff said.
Everything else I could possibly say has allready been said in this forum re: upgradability, easy of use, speed, ect.
Good luck, folks.....
-- KD (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 06, 2004.
Hi, I'd just like to announce something to my fellow PC friends out there, these MAC people might actually be right, i tried out a Powerbook g4 (with OS X!!!!) the other day and its mental!!! I always hated macs, i stil hate them coz im a pc man, but i am seriously thinking of getting one!! it was faster than my PC system which has a Gigabyte 8KNXP 800fsb motherboard, 1gb ram, cruisin on Windows XP Pro and I use Adobe Premiere Pro!! I checked out FCP and it is so much better, i cant believe it aint out for the PC yet, we always gotta wait for the best stuff. i just want to reaassure you guyz i aint goin over to mac, im just sayin its crazy what these macs can do, even if they do look nice and cost more, its nice to mess around on one once in a while
-- Bill Smith (email@example.com), April 09, 2004.
Dual processor is the way to go. All though Mack has ruled the industry via special contract with various schools in the past you can start to see the tables turning. It’s all about what OS you are accustomed to. Ultimately you can’t limit your self to a single OS or program; if you want good results you need versatility. a wining combination can be a pc or Mac with Linux an a good OS emulator ….. There are no industry standards. Adobe premiere pro went Microsoft XP as a result final cut pro is Mac OS X, a constant advertising power struggle avid systems are more widely used but simple programs are usually week example: brice5 compare 3dsmax brice3d is easier to use than 3dsmax but the end result is better in 3dsmax example 2: brice3d = mortal combat 3ds max = Final fantasy spirits within whatever system you decide to get make sure you have axes to various tools/programs to define you project.
0101001001100001011101100110010101101110011001010110010000100000010100 0001101111011001000111010101100011011101000110100101101111011011101001 1001
-- RaveEd Productions ™ (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 14, 2004.
raven, what you "RAVEN ON ABOUT" !!! that is the most useless post i ever read! whats all that about mortal combat and the spirits within? read the question again man, you in another dimensioN! Anna, i say get a pc with a single prcesser microchip, a dell floppy drive and a top of the range housing unit from alienware...
-- Jim (email@example.com), April 17, 2004.
get a macintosh!
-- Sam Lena (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 21, 2004.
You're all a bunch of nutters, since leaving this message I have grown a beard, lost three granchildren in the jungle, and i couldnt give a crap scroll about computers
-- Anna Wall (email@example.com), April 22, 2004.
Avids professional standard, and but Final Cut pro is allot easyer to use. There are some things that easch programme can do that the other can't.
Most Artists like myself prefer Macs, not cos we're lefty or any other reason...but because of the "feel" of them as opposed to working with a PC.
PC's get you more power for your money, macs just feel more natural when working in creative fields. Avid is available for both mac/pc...I really recommend it over any other programme.
if you have the money spare I envy you!! go mac. if not...go PC and home build its not as hard as it sounds make sure you select every part...and make sure their all quality...you nwill save allot and end up with a machine far superior to allot of the junk they sell out there.
a good quality Pc /mac are both great to work with...select either with care and you won't go wrong.
-- Saff (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 23, 2004.
Buy a G4 at 400Mhz is good choice to use Final Cut Pro? The Ram and the HD i will upgrade but the Processador G4 400Mhz is good or not? Thanks
-- João Santos (email@example.com), May 29, 2004.
to the guy who wrote the last message....
Yes buy G4 at 400 mhz good choice if you want slow speed no? You should get at least 800 mhz if you want to use FCP 4! Get a G4 1ghz if you can!
If you are using Final cut pro 3, then you can get the 400mhz, but you'll need lots of Ram! GOOD LUCK AMIGO
-- James Fenda (firstname.lastname@example.org), June 02, 2004.
I have a P.C. and am now on the look out for a camera, considering the Canon Xl1.
Im running on a dell PC with 80gb and 2.6 ghz, anyone have any advice about what is the best software to get? and perhaps advice about the camera?
-- Dominic mc Glynn (dj_Lukemcglynn@hotmail.com), June 06, 2004.
For what its worth: using FCP AT THE MOMENT on Mac OSX, at school (since I decided Video was an interesting thing to do, I signed up for a course in this in addition to the work I do normally, which is Web development). This program is currently (as I type this) crashing, not rendering properly (actually this happens quite often i should say here) and generally being a hassle. The Macs in this Lab btw are G4s. And to make things even more annoying, although a bit of a side issue I suppose, we cannot print at the moment from OSX, we have to reboot into OS9 on this "wonderful" Mac-based network. When can we bloody print on OSX we all ask???? "... Should be about 2 months or so by the time things are reconfigured". Or maybe because Mac networks kind of suck? Being a former network administrator for Unisys, on windows/lotus/novell-based networks I did say that this kind of problem would be solvable, and rather more quickly than 2 months as well, if we happened to be on, shall we say anything else than a Mac network ... well, can't say the Mac network administrator was too happy with that, haha. "It's quite technical what we have to do ...". I'd suggest it's not a matter of being technical, it's a matter of things being set up to run properly.
My point: things seem to get needlessly bogged down in a Mac environment. Not everything, granted, but I have generally found Macs to be like Rolls Royces - too expensive for what they (are supposed to) do half the time. okay, windows users sometimes have to cope with the blue screen of death as its known, but this happens very rarely with correctly installed (and the latest) software and so forth.
At home: Using Adobe Premiere on a PC 3GHz machine, with Fireware and all the usual bells and whistles. cost me (equivalent of) USD$1000, mainly because I'm a techo so knew where to look for parts, and put it together myself, and it works for me is all I can say at this point. But the main bonus of PC-based systems is that I know that I'll be able to use my modem in another machine, ditto with regard to Motherboard etc. ie. This also means I haven't spent about 3-4 times that much on a machine that, lets really face it, isn't THAT much better overall, and wouldn't be as usable if taken apart, to say the least!
But my core advice is: find a local film production company and see if you can observe/see what they're using in The Real World of Film Production :)
IF COST IS A FACTOR: Go PC, you'll get Waaaaaaay more for your $ and this may allow you to try DIFFERENT things (notably because software will generally be more available for the PC) and you'll find your niche from there ... I work with Graphic designers while doing my web related work, and they have Macs at home, we use PCs at work. They don't complain about it, and the fact we have won a few awards for our work in the past means that they obviously don't find being on a PC too detrimental to their creativities or ideas.
IF COST IS NOT A FACTOR: go Mac and be prepared to really spend $$$ for, well, not really much at all in the long run ... and be prepared to fork out $$$ for fixing stuff that you should be able to fix yourself (if you had a PC that is). Sure they might look fine (and that's debatable anyway), and you "have to have one" but let's face it, when the usual upgrades to Mac computers is usually how it looks, not really how it performs, you gotta ask yourself some questions ... to put it another way, how many people do you know get the latest cellphone out, but still only use it to answer calls or send text messages ...
-- John Delvane (email@example.com), June 14, 2004.
My G4 with dual 1.43gz and Final Cut Express is very adequate for robust digital video editing. Any project can be read by Final Cut Pro if you can justify t and need the upgrade. I do not. I have plenty a hard drive space and can produce 30 to 40 minutes videos after my initial learning curve.
-- Rocky Computervision (firstname.lastname@example.org), June 28, 2004.
It's kinda funny the whole debate really. I know myself that I've wasted endless headspace wondering which platform is better, rather than doing the actual production. In the end, the people who are really good at it don't really care, and are quite often using the most archaic systems anyway. Any of the more expensive editing packages will provide so many options that in your videoing endevour, you'll probably never get around to using them all... and so it should be, because after-all, editing is only one part of a very big picture. So buy a semi-latest system and one of the expensive editing packages and that'll do!
-- Lawrence (lcmartin-@-optusnet.com.au), August 11, 2004.
Man, these kind of discussion really dissapoint me. Anybody on either side that says that MAC's or PC's are better than each both do not know what they are talking about. To put it simply, MAC's and PC's use pretty much the same Hardware besides the processors. IT is all just a matter of preference, and really, the computer doesn't make your editing better, it is the creative mind in the person doing the editing that makes the editing good. All you really do in an editing program anyway is "edit" cut it up and piece the story together, then you can go on to the effects and compositing. And I read a few posts before that most big time companies don't use MAC's or PC's, thats true, they use proprietary systems built specifically for the job, like Discreet's Inferno or Lustre. The programs and system help but it is the person who creates it that makes it great.
-- Johnny Waterman (email@example.com), September 05, 2004.
I have grown up since my last post on this forum ;0)
I would like to agree with Jonny. It is a matter of preference. 12 months ago I was swearing by my PC and now I'm using a Mac G5. Truth is they are both brilliant for todays editing/ compositing demands as technology becomes increasingly advanced. PC and MAC are coming ever closer in their creative design and hardware specifications.
I think it's about time, this forum was laid to rest!
-- Darrell Pringle (Dazabrit@yahoo.co.uk), September 07, 2004.
At the risk of ststing the obvious - computers have never been so powerful, mac or pc, perhaps more than is really needed. Its amazing how similar an application appears on either operating system, so I feel that makes the operating system, to some extent, irrelevant.
In the uk there is a quasi religious defence of mac which I believe is OS based, as opposed to any rationale about hardware. The 'mac is better' philosphy is historical and was certainly true for many years while the loose standards that comprised the pc were challenged by the 'in house' rigour that produced comparatively superior machines. That has all changed now and the mac is, in simplistic terms, a pc with a different processor.
The real politics of this debate is what apple are up to. Well, it appears they are returning to their exclusive route, and, no longer able to compete in terms of hardware, are generating software that is hardware, ie mac specific, dependent (remember atari?).
Video production is a tricky business - so many standards and holes to fall down - so much pressure on the equipment not to fail at the 11th hour. My concern is that the push to make software platform dependent, and, who knows in the future, machine specific, will force us into relearning time and time again how to make things work as we would want.
Personally I just want to get on with the job in hand. To that end I find myself attracted to cross platfrom applications that I can progress with. Avid is one - but I wish there were many more. FCP looks great but I'm reluctant, basd upon the way that apple has treated both users and minority suppliers of software utilities in the past - not to mention the price that loyal users have absorbed in the changeover to osX. As I marvel at the recent progress in video editing I am also aware of the hold that the giants out there are seeking to gain in our industry and the potential abuses that go with that hold.
Buy a mac, or buy a pc and put it under (as opposed to on) the desk and go on holiday with the difference. I'm looking at Sony Vegas Video right now - looks great but then don't they all?
-- philski (firstname.lastname@example.org), September 18, 2004.
Mac/PC, its all the same, just depends on which interface you are comfortable with working on. Simply put, most Mac users will say "Buy Mac", most PC users will say "Buy a PC"... It doesn't matter, just buy what you like and it will work for you...
-- Flip (email@example.com), October 07, 2004.
Thank all of you for your help and advise. since my post I have made three short films and continue to work. I bought a wonderful sony digital studio (PCV-RX860)with 2.44ghz p4, dvd burner, fire wire and other extras...for about $1500 with a 19" monitor, a flatbed + slide + negative scanner and a good printer. I used premier 6.5 for awile but now I use the Vegas + DVD combo... thanx xoxo
-- anna lena wall (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 25, 2004.
While I may be a bit late on this topic, I still wanted to add my two cents. I am a Videographer/editor and have edited using both PC and Mac using both Adobe Premiere and Final Cut Pro and here's what I know. A Mac does not crash, at least mine never has. They do have software failures, but that's not the same as a crash like with a PC, and when you do have a software failure, you simply open the program back up, unlike a PC where you need to reboot. And most important, Mac's don't get viruses, well...at least not many people out there are writing viruses for Macs, which is just about the same. While I have edited on a Mac G4, I recently purchased a Mac G5 duel processor and it blows away the G4 for rendering speed. Something you'll want if you are a serious editor.
Premiere and Final Cut Pro and very similar in how one edits so it's really just a matter of which learning curve you want to tackle. While some argue that FCP is faster in rendering time than Premiere, I would say it's insignificant. I still prefer the FCP.
I do find it humorous that so many PC users feel so threatened by Mac users. I wonder why that is?
Yes, a Mac is more expensive and a PC can do what a Mac does, but you will need to upgrade the system in order for it to compete with a Mac, and at that point, you've almost spent the same amount of money but you still have problems with crashes and viruses.
My advice. Try editing on a PC using Premiere or FCP (now available for PC) and then go to a Mac dealership and use that, then you can decide for yourself.
-- Witnesstree (email@example.com), January 02, 2005.
By the way, you went with Vegas + DVD combo??? Well, now if you want to use Adobe PhotoShop, After Effects, Boris Red and Apple Shake your screwed! HA ha ha ha ha
-- Witnesstree (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 02, 2005.
Anna, I'm glad to hear you solved your problem. My problem is similar, except I am hoping someone would be able to tell me if all of this techonology is available on a WIndows-based laptop, in under $2000? I'd like 512-1GB RAM, 2.4(+)GHZ 800FSB processor, 80(+)GB SATA Hard drive, and a 128MB video card (or settle for a 64). Also it must come with a firewire card.
Please please any help would be suweeeeeeeet
-- Rohit (RMThawani@hotmail.com), January 03, 2005.
Como puedes ver Anna, the decision is between Apple-FCP and Adobe-Premier.
I used the Pinnacle Studio 8. It is easy to used for entry level users, and split scenes automatically, but it is buggy: custom capture resolutions to grab higher resolution render empty files. It does not capture into mpeg2 but AVI, that is why you cannot capture beyond some resolutions because the current hard drives cannot write the amont of data required by AVI fast enough as it is not compresed. I used WinDVD to capture analog video into 720x480 MPEG2. Thumbnails in the storyboard get repeted as well as in DVD menus and you have to re-render the proyect again to see if fix works. Rendering takes too long, probably it re-processes mpeg files. It crashes generating DVDs and it does not say why.
I am now traying Vegas. But I do not see a storyboard kind of viewing, and I have not find a way to have it split scenes automaticaly. It is probably me, I need time to get to know it.
-- Hugo (email@example.com), January 05, 2005.