Despite opinions to the contrary, I have plenty of friends in real life. As far as being a humanitarian, even Brian might be impressed. Immediately after university, I spent a few years working fulltime in a runaway shelter (hile doing grad work.) Most of my career has been spent in the nonprofit sector. Throughout my adult life I've donated time and money to charitable causes.

This is one of the few places I can come for a purely intellectual debate. One of the problems with "real life" is that it is tough to find a decent intellectual debate. I miss the times in grad school, arguing furiously over minor points in theory. Unfortunately, here we cannot all go out for a beer afterwards and laugh it off.

There have been people from this forum I have met in real life. I can tell you Flint does actually smile... and I think Flint can vouch that I don't have horns and a tail. I actually enjoyed meeting folks like Stan Faryna and Sally Strackbein, even though we had much different views on Y2K.

For me, this forum is like a grad school class where we can argue on a purely intellectual plane. I can understand why the folks who come here for more social reasons are annoyed with me (or hate my guts)... particularly if they have never been in an environment where your friends are arguing tenaciously against you.

I never wanted the Y2K debate (or its aftermath) to become a personal "pissing contest." Like most human beings, I reacted to at least some of the personal attacks by pushing back. For me, it was about finding out the "truth" about Y2K. And I still owe Ted Hoffman a beer for constructing the argument that finally convinced me Y2K would have a modest impact, if any.

If the forum is at a crossroads, I'm not sure it's really about the sysop. Is this going to be a social forum where there is good-natured banter between friends about topics of interest? Or will be a grad class with relentless arguments? I'm sure someone will respond and say it can be both.... but what comes to my mind is drinking beer while arguing in class. (chuckle)

The general support of the current sysop suggests to me that most people are happy with a more social orientation to the forum. When we were facing rollover, I thought Y2K deserved serious discussion and I learned a fair amount from the unruly "grad class" of TB 2000. Without a galvanizing issue, this forum can really move in either direction. If it's going to be "social," I would have to radically change my online debating style... and some folks would have to cut me some slack.

-- Ken Decker (kcdecker@worldnet.att.net), May 04, 2000

Answers

Ken,

I must ask you a serious question here, so please answer. I wonder exactly how long it has been since you have been in your university environment? Maybe you should reconsider going back to school and getting another degree.

While some people come to this forum for debate, others do not wish to debate you or anyone else. Many just wish to have a place to read up on the latest "news" that may or may not be presented to them on their local newscast. However, I have notice one thing about your debating skills over the months and months that I have read your writings. When you find someone to give you a debate (up to your level), you rely upon personal attacks however hidden they may be. (Like just above with Brian.) Could it be that you resort to these attacks when you realize that you are no longer winning the "debate"? Or could it be when someone presents some idea that you had not anticipated? Real questions, and ones that maybe you should reflect upon in private.

Most here do not come to this forum to debate anyone. For many, yes it is a social release. One thing you should realize, if this forum is going to be social, you would have to drop your debating style all together, not "radically change" it. Have you ever been to a party where when "someone" starts to walk over to your small chatting group that everyone in the group groans? You don't want to be this person do you Ken? There will always be a time for a debate, but the debate cannot be all the time.

-- (Mary@home.com), May 04, 2000.

Ken,

Reading your reflections made me think about my own reasons for still participating in this forum, and I must conclude that my reasons closely mirror yours. I also enjoy stimlating intellectal debate, and this is one place where that can take place.

I believe that the forum members allow for a good mix of news gatherers, humourists, debaters and antagonists. Although we may never meet in person, I do believe that I'd enjoy a good argument with you over a nice cool beer. (Even though you can't get a decent beer in USA)

-- Malcolm Taylor (taylorm@s.co.nz), May 04, 2000.

Ken -

I'm glad you and Flint are staying. Malcolm is right. This forum has a good mix and you both are part of that.

I have a question. Is this what university life is like? (Just wanted to make you smile)

-- Debra (??@??.com), May 04, 2000.

Debra,

Don't know about good ole Ken, but it made me smile. That one is priceless.

-- (Mary@home.com), May 04, 2000.

Mary, if this forum were a cocktail party, I would treat it much differently. As a general rule, I don't debate religion, politics or economics at social gatherings. In my experience, most people don't like debating... they like people agreeing with them.

As for Brian, I like the guy. He's bright, articulate, funny and decent. I think he knows I like him... and that I'm needling about his incurable impulse to "help." I can assure you it's good natured, not mean spirited. When I first started debating Y2K on TB 2000, I tried like Hades not "trade blows" with my incessant personal attackers. For the most part, I succeeded. I did go completely ballastic on Invar... and I needled Russ "Big Dog" Lipton from time to time. Unlike most, I actually apologized to the forum for my occasional loss of temper.

I have no problem admitting when I am proven wrong. I freely admit predicting a recession starting 2Q/3Q 2000. Thus far, I am completely wrong. Mea culpa.

When I feel I am right, like on the freedom of speech issue, I debate vigorously. I would not insult Brian's intellect by patronizing him, patting him on the head and saying he made a very nice argument, thank you very much. This would be far more insulting than teasing him by saying I think I saw his face on the Shroud of Turin. (Was that you, Brian?) My reflection, Mary, was that if this is a cocktail party I need to change or leave. Agreed?

Malcolm... I agree, and I think American beers are improving, at least the micro-brews. By the way, I was a tight-head prop so you know I appreciate good beer.

-- Ken Decker (kcdecker@worldnet.att.net), May 04, 2000.

Oh, hell. I'm not an intellectual. I've never been to a cocktail party. Aren't we having fun? Have we been having a bad time and I didn't 'get it'??

-- helen (home@the.farm), May 04, 2000.

Ken,

Debating with you can be quite stimulating. I was captain of the debate team in high school, quite a few years ago, and defer to your pre-eminence in this area. It takes a lot of time and energy to do battle with you, especially if one is dealing with some heavy burden in their personal life. Many of us are here sometimes desiring less confrontational modes of enjoyment, such as humor and the genuine sharing and hashing-out of ideas (as opposed to battling intellectually). You are a valuable part of this varied community. Just try not regarding every exchange as an contest, or a potential one. With your education, knowledge, life experience, and incisive mind, you can offer us a lot of value by discoursing in a less confrontational mode, at least some of the time [G].

-- Observer (observer@lots.to.observe), May 04, 2000.

Ken,

I take this personal reflection as very gracious of you, and I appreciate it. As you've expressed it, our views on debates are the same.

I want this forum to be a place of vigrourous debates of ideas and views, and if some folks want to socialize, that's fine with me too. This forum is as big as all the threads it can contain, and one does not have to read all or participate in all of them. People who crave intellectual debates are encouraged to start new threads. But humor and chitchat threads are also welcomed.

I will not censore people for ideas, views and opinions, and will not make anyone feel unwelcomed on this forum because of their views. But I do retain the right to use my own judgement as to what should be removed from the forum.

OTFR

-- Old TB2K Forum Regular (freespeech@yahoo.com), May 04, 2000.

Ken:

Serious question: What do you think is the object of debate?

There have been a number of stimulating, philosophical threads in the last few weeks, where excellant links and referrals to books were given.

I, too, come here for the intellectual banter; that is why I have started threads along philosophical lines. I cannot find this group of people(Eve, Debra, Lunacy, Brian, and yes, even Hawk) in my real life.

Let's not miss the forest for the trees. There is still a lot of good information here.

-- FutureShock (gray@matter.think), May 04, 2000.

Ken,

Please do not take what I said in the wrong form. Yes, debate is fun, however, debate is not fun all of the time. While I can see that this forum was created for stimulating debate according to OTFR, he/she also said that he/she will stand for various types of threads. I guess what I'm trying to say, is that sometimes you need to let your hair down just a bit, and show others that you can be "normal" at times as well. Have fun and enjoy yourself, but remember that someone that presents himself/herself as serious 100% of the time will be seen by others at times as a bore.

-- (Mary@home.com), May 04, 2000.

Ken,

If I tell you we just need a hooker between us and we'll have a front row, then you'll know my favourite position. ;-)

And for all those people with dirty minds, this is not a continuation of the porn thread.

-- Malcolm Taylor (taylorm@es.co.nz), May 04, 2000.

Ken, I know you don't care for the opinions of anonymous posters, so you may not read this. That's okay.

I participate in another on-line forum that provides me a lot of intellectual and social stimulation. Many of the participants are highly educated and quite opinionated. Tempers do occasionally flare, but laughter flows most freely. One of my favorite posters there is the coach of a major university's forensic debating team. As you might expect, he not only loves a good debate, but is very accomplished in debating skills. He is unfailingly gentle, good-humored, entertaining and engaging as hell. One would never be able to tell that he must know he is frequently participating in conversation with someone whose verbal/writing skills are obviously less than his own.

When I read your posts they often leave my stomach in knots, and, as a rule I choose not to engage with you. Your posts are best characterized as insulting, insinuating, mean-spirited and (as I've noted others repeatedly comment) condescending. Perhaps this is not who you are in real life, but it certainly does define your on-line persona and writing style. If you choose to "radically change your online debating style", I think most posters would cut you a lot of slack. You might find yourself having more enjoyment in the game, too, who knows? Change is good, and worth a shot!

Good luck and low stress

-- (hello@xxx.xxx), May 04, 2000.

Ken, it seems to me that this forum has largely evolved into a place for getting even. And I myself haven't been a perfect angel.

-- Peter Errington (petere@ricochet.net), May 04, 2000.

Thank you for the gracious comments. And Helen, where you go therein is a pleasant time.

Observer, I do like "jawin'" about less serious matters. The conversations about "prep" stuff like firearms was actually pretty interesting without being controversial.

OTFR, thank you... and I suppose we can agree to disagree about the deletion of the link to Ms. Squire's forum (or the pictures I never saw). I am curious... on this forum people have posted links to my town's web page where there is (among other things) a photograph of me. I did not even think to request you delete the link. Did you see this? If you did, how was the link to Ms. Squire's forum different than the link to my municipality's home page? I'm NOT saying this to be difficult... but the thought just struck me.

Future, the textbook answer would be to reach a greater understanding of an issue. Formal debate has different rules than a "beer-and- pretzels" argument at the local bar. Some people find the William F. Buckley/public television style debate terribly boring. To me, it's the closest thing to formal debate we now have (and I like it). Most Internet forums are more like talk radio shows. You have the brilliant mixed in with the lunatic fringe. I enjoy talk radio, but only for short periods of time. If I listen too long, I begin to lose faith in mankind. (chuckle)

I enjoy humor and am still proud of my "Wreck of the Y2K Heralds." And I think humor has a place in formal debate.

-- Ken Decker (kcdecker@worldnet.att.net), May 04, 2000.

Ken,

I would like to offer up a cyber beer(though not as nice as say a fine Belguim Ale) and a concurrance that stimulating intellectual conversation is indeed hard,if not next to impossible,to find in the real world.

Hating someones guts is something that for me takes a heap more provocation than can be offered in an online context and you are not that class of people anyway.Even the best of friends and our closest loved ones can be annoying(yes,even me)(g).It kind of reminds me that going through all the stages of schooling and growing up that the people we have our strongest disagreements with (verbal and physical) are many times the people with whom our strongest bonds are forged.

As far as the board having to be one way or another,intellectual vs. social,I believe it can be both,for the same reason that,there are some traits I admire in all people while there are some traits I admire in certain people.We all have our strengths and weaknesses but it is the combination of both that makes us unique and better as a whole,this is indicative of America/the world and this forum.

I don't feel as if you need or would have to change your online debating style,besides what's wrong with"drinking beer while arguing in class" (LMAO)

Cheers and Slongee Va !!! (Nordic for: To your good health)

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), May 04, 2000.

Hello,

That's how I started online... pretty good natured. Then I had nearly a year on the old TB 2000 where I was verbally hammered almost every day. Perhaps your friendly debate coach would sour a bit after being called names for a few months. I did.

And there are still a few people who weigh in on my threads with no other purpose than to engage in personal attacks. I could win the Nobel Peace Prize and still have my hecklers.

By the way, I have written several hundred pages on Y2K between the old forum and the new forum. Your characterization of my posts suggests you haven't read much of my work... because most of my posts don't attack anybody. Most of the vitriol has come after someone has gotten in my face. I don't think this excuses my inappropriate behavior... but I hope it gives you some context.

I do realize my writing style tends towards formality. Many people think this is pompous, arrogant, etc. I can try to shift gears into a less formal writing style... but please forgive me if I doubt the change making much difference.

Peter, I have no axe left to grind.

-- Ken Decker (kcdecker@worldnet.att.net), May 04, 2000.

Ken,

If you change the style of your discourse, I trust it will not affect the pleasure one takes in reading your writing. You have a terrific style and a real talent for characterization. Even if I don't always agree with your ideas, I appreciate the way you express them. Thanks for your contributions.

-- Celia Thaxter (celiathtaxter@yahoo.com), May 04, 2000.

Ken, be yourself. We like you that way, though some are too shy to admit it =)

A good debate is great for the psyche. And I, for one, think intellectual = sexy. =P

-- cin (cinloo@aol.com), May 04, 2000.

There is probably only 30 actual people (not counting their alias's) posting here anyway. What difference does it make?

-- (W@iting for an .answer), May 04, 2000.

hello:

Could you post a link to that forum you mentioned?

-- FutureShock (gray@matter.think), May 04, 2000.

Capn:

"Would you mind giving me a dialect on that one? In my family, we simply say Skal [That isn't really an a...it's an a with a little circle over it, as in the vowel that comes after o with the slash through it.]

I've looked both in my Norwegian to English dictionary and my English to Norwegian dictionary, and can't find anything remotely similar to Slongee Va.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), May 04, 2000.

Anita,

It was told to me by an English/Norweigan woman many years ago,Iv'e never really delved further into it than that,I just took her word for it.Worth some investigation though,now that you mention it.

Maybe someone else can weigh in?

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), May 04, 2000.

Ken, " I am curious... on this forum people have posted links to my

town's web page where there is (among other things) a photograph of me. I did not even

think to request you delete the link. Did you see this?"

I did not see the link/post itself, but I read someplace else where you mentioned it.

"If you did, how was the link to Ms. Squire's forum different than the link to my municipality's home page? I'm NOT saying this to be difficult... but the thought just struck me."

That is a fair question deserving of a clear answer and I know you don't mean to be difficult. Someone else had this question in regards to some other people's webpage link not being deleted. The difference is that you haven't asked, or made it clear to me that you didn't want your site's link posted on here.

Everyone is welcomed, no encouraged, to write me if you do have a problem with information about yourself that you don't want made public in this forum. I will use my judgement in deciding whether this is breach of privacy vs. freedom of speech, and the clearer you make your case, the easier it will be for me to make a fair judgement.

-- Old TB2K Forum Regular (freespeech@yahoo.com), May 04, 2000.

Ken,

Thanks for the post, I mean it. I now feel I understand you much better.

Ken, it is hard for me to get to the intellectual level (thats obvious huh?) with alot on this forum, because of my upbringing...no not blaming nobody but me.

I went to school, in front door and out the back...LOL.

Had to party, got pregnant young, tried to have baby/@16 yrs old and attend hi school was too hard. Back then we did not have daycare like now.

I dont get involved in religious threads, because I was brought up so strict in that regard and as not practicing now, I feel I have nothing to offer/debate.

Here is real honesty, I wish I could debate/be intellectual to the level of alot of folks here, but having only received a GED, at age of 22, my level doesnt quite make the grade.

So, if it 'appears' that I am uneducated, unable to 'get it', it is because alot of times I am.

Oh boy, I cant believe my level of honesty today. I have a 16 year old son, who just has a report due today for social studies on Hitler, I learn as I help him.

FWIW, as not being educated as I'd like to be, I did manage to break into a job, go to school for private investigation, and also become an Insurance Agent.

So, kinda of like Father Guido Sarduci used to say on Saturday night live (remember him?) Ask me about baseball, that I know....

But I dont know much about alot of topics here. I will try to learn from reading the posts, and i do stay abreast of current events as much as i can.

Ok, there, consumer is outta da closet. so to speak.

Thanks again for the post, I hope this helps you understand me a lil better, as your post has helped me. BTW, I think your charitable work is awesome, I've done some myself.

THANKS

-- consumer (shh@aol.com), May 04, 2000.

Uncensored Spinoff Links and Photos

-- (Helping H@nd .with only three fingers), May 04, 2000.

WTF is this ^?

OTFR, I do NOT wish any of my 'stuff' on front street.

I dont know what it is exactly you are asking, but if you can track us, again, I am not sure, but I do NOT want any info on me available on here. Period.

To all posters:

No offense, If I wish to give out my addy, I will do so.

OTFR,

do you mean to say that you will use your own discretion as to if you will per se "out" someone? Or am I completly off the clue bus?

-- consumer (shh@aol.com), May 04, 2000.

Three Fingers,

{That reminds me, has anybody heard from 'Nine'?}

If Ken has any posted pix of himself with protest signs & moldering tie-dye, would you kindly post a link?

Now THAT I might like to take a gander at!

-- flora (***@__._), May 04, 2000.

Ken,

It is good to see the "status quo" has not run you off. As always I enjoy your posts.

Check out this website sometime:

http://www.thefiringline.com/

You mentioned you found the discussions enlightening regarding firearms. The old dusty Dog is over there too. Lots of debate in that forum... : )

Keep up the good topical discussion over here, although I personally think the Y2K subject is mutilating a dead horse...

Cheers Sir...

Hi Consumer!!!

loungin' on the porch,

The Dog

-- The Dog (dogdesert@hotmail.com), May 04, 2000.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{DOG}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

So good to see you..

Keep the flea collar on now, coming near the season. :-0

-- consumer (shh@aol.com), May 04, 2000.

Consumer:

Interesting testimonial, but I'm living proof that education doesn't help much in some debates. Ken's an economist by trade. I had one year of Economics at University [a semester of macro, and a semester of micro.] I got A's in both, despite showing up for one final exam so inebriated that first I leaned back in my chair, tipping it [and me] to the floor, and second having to stare at the final for almost 10 minutes until the words cleared up. I still aced the test, so drank with friends before the Differential Equations final as well. I was less successful on that final.... MUCH less successful. Yep...I changed my ways.

The point I'm trying to make is that none of us are skilled in EVERY area, DESPITE our education. We don't all share the same interests, either. I love the study of Biology, but I don't have the same love for Geology, and the thread on the flood wherein Flint and Elbow played a main role whizzed right over my head. I got a feel on that thread for how Y2k technical discussions whizzed right over the heads of folks who never programmed computers. Who to believe?

I remember the debates at University to which Ken refers. We engaged in the same at a local bar named "Jimmy's" in the Hyde Park area of Chicago's South Side, near the University of Chicago. We discussed everything from Karl Marx to abortion and religions. We learned, we laughed, and I think these discussions formed us in some ways. I see no reason why these debates can't continue here, but I see no reason why the forum must move in one direction either.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), May 04, 2000.

I concur with Anita. Don't change a thing, Ken. I remember when you showed up at Old TB2K as "Mr. Decker" and I have always appreciated your contributions, even when I disagreed with them.

-- DeeEmBee (macbeth1@pacbell.net), May 04, 2000.

"do you mean to say that you will use your own discretion as to if you will per se "out" someone? Or am I completly off the clue bus?"

Consumer, one thing *I* am learning as an administrator here is how to be effectively clear. In that regard, it's been quite a switch for me coming from the position of poster to administrator. Each time I think I am clear enough on a statement and will be understood, someone comes along and startles me with a question like yours. LOL! (Laughing at myself.)

To answer your question; No, absolutely not, I will not "out" anyone myself. I have a strict code of conduct on this. What I meant is that if someone else does "out" you about anything you don't wish made public, you should write me via email and let me know. And explain to me why the information posted about you is a problem to you. There are some information that are clear cut private, such as phone numbers, residence addresses etc., but some other things aren't as clear cut, such as a link to a website for example. Some people are happy to have that posted publicly, others are not. Not every case is clear cut, and that is why I stated that the clearer you make your case, the easier for me it will be to make a fair judgement whether something should be deleted or not.

Hope this answers your question.

-- Old TB2K Forum Regular (freespeech@yahoo.com), May 04, 2000.

Consumer,

My grandfather had only a fifth grade education... yet I admired him as much as any PhD. He knew enough to read, and keep reading his entire life. There is no shame in lack of a formal education. If you can read this post, you have the key to unlocking the world. If you have the courage to ask, there are people willing to answer your questions.

You should be proud of your achievements... and I encourage you to stay, to read and write with an open mind. Don't be afraid to ask questions, particularly of me. I will do my best to help.

Anita, I used to play at being an economist... but I'm no longer plying that trade. Diffy EQ made my head spin. I was starting to lose my way towards the end of calc. I do regret we do not have the opportunity to debate and drink in real life.... I would make all of this seem more real.

OTRF... if it's public info available on the web... I am not concerned. People will find me one way or another.

-- Ken Decker (kcdecker@worldnet.att.net), May 04, 2000.

Ken,

I think that we should all consider getting together sometime in the future. It would be fun, and would enhance future communication. I value the diversity of opinions and knowledge of forum members and hope that many will keep on coming here over time.

I'll toss out an initial suggestion of Las Vegas as a possible gathering place. As long as it's not COMDEX time, there are usually plenty of rooms available, and at a reasonable cost. San Francisco would be fun, but a lot more expensive. How about some other ideas?

Heck, I'd even be interested in meeting Manny if he had the nerve to come, and of course we'd find out if several other posters are really the big tough guys they purport to be! Of course already know that all you ladies are lovely and exciting!!!

What do you think?

-- Observer (observer@lots.to.observe), May 04, 2000.

OTFR,

Laughing at 'self' as you can see in my 'testimonial' (thanks anita, i like that :-).

Thanks for answering my question, as usual I am slow, but now I get it. Easier these days to laugh at me.

As for manny, no, I believe Manny has been tooo busy to fly as you can see by his/her latest spam attack.

I posted a new thread for anyone interested.

Ken, since it is a public forum, how do folks 'trace' us? Just curious.

I hope they can trace manny, I'd love to know why he/she felt compelled to do the spam thing and to be VERY honest I'd also like to know who it is. I do have suspicions, but I'd prefer to keep them to myself for now.

Thanks to all for the encouragement. I was not pity seeking, and pride myself that i have came a very LONG way in my short 38 years.

As for a 'get together' I prefer Tropical. Bahama's, Cancun, Hey San Diego would be nice also.

Wonder what it would be like to really see each other and what we look like? Its the PI in me I guess. See, you dont have to be smart to get thru the PI course, just street smart, and a lil ghetto. Good thing I fit the criteria.....lol

Woman so I was told in school have the 'up' on investigative work as we seem to be able to 'entrap' the male species....go figure.

Now, still wondering what we all look like.

Uncle dee - someone said you look like yul brennen, I dont believe that.

Hawk, = probably good looking

Capn Fun - most certainly a 'looker'

Anita - Tall slim very attractive and perhaps a brunette?

BTW, I am not baiting, just wondering and if it helps, I'll tell what i look like:

PS for those not interested, please scroll on down:

i am 5'2 125 lbs brown hair blue eyes

Ken:

Perhaps grey headed tall, salt/pepper look? Suit and tie man?

No need to respond, just me thinking out loud.

again thanks for your kind words.

-- consumer (shh@aol.com), May 04, 2000.

consumer,

No offense meant, but your description of Unk Deedah has given me schizophrenic visions of Yul Brynner and Walter Brennan. Any truth there, Unk?

Elbow

-- LBO Grise (LBO Grise@aol.com), May 04, 2000.

Observer,

Only Vegas is strange enough to accomodate this forum. If you can find 12 willing participants, I'll fly in from the east coast to make 13.

-- Ken Decker (kcdecker@worldnet.att.net), May 04, 2000.

Cmon Unc, you sexy thing. post a photo for us horny chicks

-- (wanna see@wanna.see), May 04, 2000.

I have read more of Ken Decker's posts than I care to remember at this point. However, I can't recall one of them that contributed anything but pseudo-intellectual posturing and self-congratulatory preening. If he decided to change his "debating style" to state his own opinions or facts without all of the detritus that has so far characterized his posts, perhaps it would be worthwhile to discuss something with him. By the way, "formal" writing does not have to have the negative characteristics that his does. Good writing of any style is enjoyable to read. His writing, however, is not.

-- neutral observer (neutral@observer.com), May 04, 2000.

Fair enough, I shall do it. I do not own a scanner, but getting my mug shot put on a floppy should be fairly simple.

And yes, Unc shaves his head, it's a recent affectation. Mrs D is not whining as much as when I first exposed my lovely cranium for the world adore, but I still can't say that she likes it, yet.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), May 05, 2000.

OK,if Uncle is gonna do it I'll do it too,I think I can figure it out and besides Ken's pic is out here,what have I got to lose?(chucklin') Any special rules or spots to post pics? Ya never know what you'll get.

I agree that LV is the perfect setting for THIS assortment but what about a more central locale such as St.Louis? LV is do-able and is probably a more accessable hub for all.But if it were to entail a drive SL might be an option.

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), May 05, 2000.

capn,

When I put mine up I'll do it at unkeed@yahoo.com), May 05, 2000.

Try again,

At Photopoint. You can post as many pics as you wish, and it's free! Perhaps we should set up a community pic site there. (We being the royal we, as in somebody else besides me, hee hee)

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), May 05, 2000.

Uncle Deedah -

I'll show you mine if you show me yours!

-- Debra (???@!!!.com), May 05, 2000.

Neutral... hardly an accurate handle. I freely admit that I have been a tenacious debater and I have responded poorly to the incesssant personal attacks. I would guess you are a regular poster from the old forum hiding under a new psuedonym. If you are, you have been selective in your reading. Many of my posts have been purely informational. I've written about an "end of the world" library, the Leatherman "Wave" multi-tool, moderate preparations for Y2K, economic predictions about Y2K, the Federal Reserve and monetary systems, firearms, humor, etc. I have my detractors (like you), but I also found many people who appreciated my contributions.

Where I lose my patience is with the legion of anonymous attackers. After eight months of weathering baseless insults, I felt vindicated by the results of the rollover. Unlike many, I left TB 2000 with a gracious good-bye in January and did not post on the old forum again.

Rather by accident I learned of EZB and the Spinoff forum. I wanted to help TB2K get off the ground... mostly just so there was an alternative to EZB. I will be honest... it felt good to be right about Y2K. Like most folks, I didn't like being called an idiot, government shill, liar, coward and moron, particularly by a group of people who could not refute my argument or create a meangingful counter-argument.

You may find this insufferably arrogant, Neutral, but Flint, Hoff, Latimer, Nachu, Poole, Davis and I were right about Y2K. And I believe we were right because we did a better job of analysis. On the pessimist side, I think some smart people got fooled because they let a negative bias about modern society skew their analysis of the data.

Unfortunately, the debate got nasty and personal at times. Perhaps this was inevitable given some people's perception of the stakes. It's easier for me to understand someone like Russ Lipton when I remember he thought the world hung in the balance.

If you have decided you don't like reading what I write... scroll on by. Given your attitude, I doubt you will feel any differently if I try a more casual style.

-- Ken Decker (kcdecker@worldnet.att.net), May 05, 2000.

Ken,

I see that you have tried your kinder side. It isn't so bad, now is it? Yes, your humor. You did good, maybe you can whip us up something new, as I'm sure that we're all in need of a good chuckle, or is it (laughter).

Your responses to consumer have shown that you are human afterall. For that, you have earned my respect. As far as a cocktails, maybe as someone suggested, we all can get together for a nice chat. Somehow, I doubt that in real life, you would present yourself as you do here, but maybe I'm wrong. I bet you have a wonderful laugh, only on the forum we cannot hear it.

I also think that consumer is wrong about your description. I doubt that you are salt-n-pepper. With your fire (spirit), I see you more as a red head. Am I close?

-- (Mary@home.com), May 05, 2000.

Mary,

A true redhead, bright as a new copper penny when I was a boy. It has darkened to a deep auburn with my "advanced" age. I have a touch of gray at the temples, but my family tends to gray early. Unlike my esteemed colleague, Unk, I have a full head of hair, and a moustache and goatee.

-- Ken Decker (kcdecker@worldnet.att.net), May 05, 2000.

Ken,

I have to admit to you, that I have seen your picture. After reading that it was there for the world to see, my morbid curiosity got the best of me. Didn't curiosity kill the cat? Since I didn't know what thread the information was on, I had to do some major hunting. If the others start a page with pictures of this gang here, it is my hope that you'll post your picture there. Who knows, maybe I shall as well.

Keep on keeping on Ken

-- (Mary@home.com), May 05, 2000.

Where's Ken's picture? Can I see it?

-- Debra (canicanicani@?.com), May 05, 2000.

Debra,

I would leave that issue up to Ken. Maybe he'll start a place somewhere that will host the pictures.

-- (Mary@home.com), May 05, 2000.