The very first time I saw a scanner for the UPC's we now have on virtually everything we puchase, I was alarmed, and speculated that eventually we would have a pure electronic money system. My wife, and most my friends think I'm paranoid. Now I think they may change their tune.

Check out this URL: http://www.mondex.com/

This electronic money system, called "mondex", is brought to you by Master Charge.

I have concern about the ability of either a bank, a government, or a hacker to restrict my purchasing ability when this type of system replaces cash, which is seems is likely to happen in the near future.

For instance, I can see the likelihood of trying to purchase gasoline using this type of system, but having to "punch in" my destination. I won't have to "punch in" my name, because this will already be known from my card. Next, there will be a message on the screen next to the point where I have inserted my card, which would tell me whether the destination is considered one which is appropriate for me to visit at this time.

Who is in control of this system? Who will be able to control us in this fashion? Master Charge? Bill Clinton et. al.?

Folks, are my friends (and my honey) right? Am I paranoid? I'm looking forward to your comments about this.

JOJ

-- jumpoff joe (jumpoff@echoweb.neet), May 03, 2000

Answers

From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr (pic), near Monterey, California

Margaret Atwood's dystopian novel, The Handmaid's Tale paints a picture of a repressive society in the area of what used to be the United States, after a takeover by reconstructionists. A flashback tells how the coup happened after everybody had been moved to a single ID/Credit Card. On the day they decided that women should no longer be allowed to handle money, their cards simply stopped working.

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), May 03, 2000.

If that makes you paranoid, read this.

www.jvim.com/IntelligenceBriefing/

-- sharon (halyman@bellsouth.net), May 03, 2000.

I'd vote for the "you are indeed paranoid" option. What (in the real world that you experience on a day to day basis) makes you think the world is about to elimate cash?

That'll never happen in your life time, and the only thing that would make you think it might is reading (and believing) too much BS on the internet.

-- E.H. Porter (Just Wondering@About.it), May 03, 2000.

EH, Thanks for the wake up call. Do you really think I'm paranoid? I don't think that I usually react to things in a paranoid way.

I do, however, see my prognostications on this coming true. I started my paranoia, or whatever it is, a long time ago. Since then, I've seen electronic deposits of paychecks, more and more price scanners, and then debit cards, and then "smart" cards. Now we're seeing "Net Angel" (are you familiar with this?) and Mondex.

EH, did you look at the Mondex site? Do you think I'm making this stuff up? This is not a report from World Net Daily or something like that. If you go to their site, shown above, you'll see, among other things, that Mondex is a "subsidiary of Master Charge International"

If you click on "what is Mondex", you'll see:

What is Mondex?

Mondex Electronic Cash is the secure, convenient and cost effective alternative to traditional notes and coins, worldwide.

Read some other links on this site, if you would be so kind, and tell me that this is paranoia on my part.

Sharon, this site looks pretty far out there to me. But I AM familiar with Net Angel. A friend of mine is buying a bunch of stocks from the company which just bought it, and whose shares went up phenomenally, and planning to sell it right before the election (HE'S paranoid)

Dancer, thanks. I'm always looking for new books to read.

JOJ

-- jumpoff joe (jumpoff@echoweb.neet), May 03, 2000.

Well, I appreciate your reasoned response, and I also looked at the Mondex site. And, I still think you're being paranoid on this issue.

My question: why do you think Mondex (and its relatives) are anything more than over hopefull, undercaptialized dot.coms. Sure, they'd like to replace cash. But, I happen to like cash. So, I'm not going to sign on to their program. Why do you think that because Mondex wants it to happen, it will happen?

Electronic tranfers of funds -- love it! I do all my banking electonically. But, I don't feel that anyone made me do it, or that things are out of my control. Why do you feel to the contrary?

My opinion -- the concept of a non-cash economy has no basis in the real world. 99% of the people in the world will never go along with it, so it'll never happen. The fact that certain fringe movement promote the concept is merely a "fart in the wind" signifying nothing.

-- E.H. Porter (Just Wondering@About.it), May 03, 2000.

JOJ,
I don't think you're necessarily being paranoid, but perhaps visionary. We can only speculate on when that vision could become reality, but I would not be surprised if the possibility of eliminating tangible currency had government leaders salivating copiously.

-- David L (bumpkin@dnet.net), May 03, 2000.

How many of you here believe tht it is just a coincidence that all of the bar codes on our purchases are incoded with the number 666? This technology has only been around for a few years and now we have the technology to put microchip inplants in in peoples hands so that all they have to do is swipe their hand over a scanner in order to purchase an item and the money comes right out of their bank account.

I find it interesting that the book of Revelations talks about a world leader who comes to power and "He causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond to recieve a mark in their right hand or forehead that no man might by or sell, save he that has the mark. Let he that hath understanding count the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man and that number is six hundred- threescore and six."

Take into account that this book was written over two thousand years ago when none of this would have been possible without the technology we have today. This may not happen in my lifetime but I believe it is definatly on the way.

-- sharon (halyman@bellsouth.net), May 04, 2000.

David, thank you; I much prefer the term "visionary" to "paranoid". But perhaps EH has a point. I have no way of KNOWING that a money free society will ever occur, nor that some powerful group of people will exploit the potential power that this would give them to subject us to their whims. On the other hand, I have witnessed enough social engineering by various government entities to be very suspicious of what would happen, should this e money system ever be put in place.

I could give a lot of examples, but, as a semi retired builder, I will mention just a few. Where I live, in SW Oregon, we have what is called SB100, which was passed by the State Legislature and signed into law in 1973. Basically, the law took the power over all cititens away from the legislature and the governor, and gave it to a bunch of appointed beaurocrats, called "LCDC" (Land Conservation and Development Commission). This group has, gradually, reined in the property rights of the people of this state to the point where one can't even build a storage shed larger than 150 square feet on his property without a building permit. And the cost of a septic system permit, which was $1.00 in the sixties, is now $340, just to come look at a hole in the grouund, provided by applicant. To get a construction permit can run over $1000. Building permits have increased in price in a similar fashion. I recently built a new house for my wife and myself, and paid over $2000 for the permits (not counting the septic permit, the well permit, the development permit, and various other costs to bring in the power and phone.

What did I get for my $2000 plus building permit? The building department "reviewed" my plans. Then they came and "inspected" my work. Fact is, the building and plumbing inspector never went upstairs, and the electrical inspector never even entered the house! So I felt happy, because I didn't get one of the power hungry assholes who hassles everyone beyond belief for dumb rules. But I am a little bit confused as to why I had to pay so much, when they didn't even inspect my work.

Many people around here are so pissed off at the government "boo-rats" that they don't bother to get a building permit, if they don't want, or already have, electricity. As of right now, the government does not have any serious enforcement power, as they would have to sue the person to get enforcement. So far this has happened a total of one time. And the defendant was merely ordered to belatedly get a permit. But with e-money, they couldst start deducting money from your bank account until you cooperated.

I guess I've just seen to much evidence of some people's desire to exert their will over others, and too many of them have risen to positions of power. Time will tell.

EH, also, do you think that once the vast majority of people start using e-money, and feeling fine about it, there won't be a move, probably successful, to eliminate cash? (For our own good?)

JOJ

-- jumpoff joe (jumpoff@echoweb.neet), May 05, 2000.

Sharon, I'm sorry, but I can't put any credence into someone forecasting UPC's from out of biblical times. I know that "666" is encoded (although it's so easy to read that it's not much of a code) in ALMOST all the bar codes. Last time I looked it was not there in the shorter bar codes, such as found on magazines, and a few other items, for some reason. And I know that the chapter of Revelations in the bible has the words that you quote. And I know it says something about having to have this number "on your forehead or wrist", or something to that effect. But I have to believe that whoever originally figured out how to make the whole UPC/barcode system work put the 666 in there as some kind of cynical prank. It's unfortunate, because it makes those of us who are either "paranoid" or "visionary" look like wacko chisters, who can't think for ourselves.

JOJ

-- jumpoff joe (jumpoff@echoweb.neet), May 05, 2000.

The day I get paid with anything other than cash when I hit a ryoal flush at video poker in any casino in Nevada is the day I'll start worrying about a cashless society.

-- Jim Cooke (JJCooke@yahoo.com), May 06, 2000.

Jim, I don't want you to "worry about it". But don't let it catch you by surprise. JOJ

-- jumpoff joe (jumpoff@echoweb.neet), May 06, 2000.