I tried to find the first image of this series so I could title (Title Line) it similarly. It was part of our discussion about Richard Warren's images of women and plants. I finally got my scanner working again, and my wife scanned this print as a test. I'm not really happy with the shadow rendering in this scan (as compared to the print). But I wanted to get this image here as a follow up to the previous image of the man figure with the spent eggplant. Would you regard it (the man shot, if you can find or remember it) in context with this woman figure bearing a more vital, promising fruit. How do they work together? I would like to do a third image of a very young child, holding an eggplant of the same condition as this, but sliced cleanly open, showing us the seeds inside... t

-- tom meyer (twm@mindspring.com), April 23, 2000

Answers

Damn, here's the url, could one of you wizards make it show up here?

http://tphotosite.homestead.com/files/jlpeggplant.jpg

IMG SRC="http://tphotosite.homestead.com/files/jlpeggplant.jpg"

I don't know if that will work, sorry... t

-- tom meyer (twm@mindspring.com), April 23, 2000.

Woman's take	Man's take

-- Allan Engelhardt (allane@cybaea.com), April 23, 2000.

The old thread is at http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002b Pj and was titled An image for Richard's "dilemma" thread on PoP Forum.

One of the good things about being the co-moderator is that I can edit my previous posts. I have include the "man" picture in the post above.

(Boy! That article was hard to find!).

-- Allan Engelhardt (allane@cybaea.com), April 23, 2000.

Now that we have got the mechanics out of the way, perhaps we can talk about the picture...

I love the light in both images. The serpia toning in the woman version is nice: I prefer it to the colder tones of the man.

The idea is wonderful and I look forward to seeing your child image!

What is the shadow in the background of the right hand side? The right arm looks slightly out of place -- perhaps remove it (no, not cut it off! but ask her to hold it behind her back :-)).

I realy like the light and composition of the woman picture. But the subject of the man is completely compelling.

It would perhaps be interesting to get all three (man, woman, child) together in the same image? Bit hard to engineer, I admit, but could create some interesting compositional possibilities? (And some difficult lighting problems....)

Again: great work! Keep them coming.

-- Allan Engelhardt (allane@cybaea.com), April 23, 2000.

I think the image of the man is very evocative, and as well as the quote from FW that sparked in my mind when I first saw it, it brings to mind, for me at least, the kind of ideas that Eliot was contemplating ;

April is the cruellest month, breeding Lilacs out of the dead land, mixing Memory and desire, stirring Dull roots with spring rain. Winter kept us warm, covering Earth in forgetful snow, feeding A little life with dried tubers.

What are the roots that clutch, what branches grow Out of this stony rubbish? Son of man, You cannot say, or guess, for you know only A heap of broken images, where the sun beats, And the dead tree gives no shelter, the cricket no relief, And the dry stone no sound of water. Only There is shadow under this red rock, (Come in under the shadow of this red rock), And I will show you something different from either Your shadow at morning striding behind you Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you; I will show you fear in a handful of dust.

The image of the women is less successful, in my humble opinion - she should be offering a fruit with a different shape, perhaps an apple (obvious allusion), or a pear. Although the lighting is good, I think that the legs should be repositioned to a less "defensive" pose.

I think that the idea for the third photograph with a child is interesting - perhaps using a pomegranate split open to show the many seeds, with the lighting set up to suggest the passing from winter to spring? Perhaps different toners could be used to suggest different temperatures between the three images.

-- fw (finneganswake@altavista.net), April 24, 2000.

FW, thanks for the context and criticism. The poem is quite close to the feelings I have about these images, as well (I may expand this series of images to illustrate those stanza... or use them to contextualize these images (cart before the horse, huh?)). They have not been formally exhibited, so some of your points may well make it into the final versions. I thought the uplifted toes took her pose well out of the defensive mode. Crossed legs (such as these) always seemed sort of sexy to me, enticing without revealing. I really liked the fullness of the eggplant, the rounded bottom and smooth dark skin echoing the body and the concept of fullness and potential life. Pears and apples seem too cliche'd and obvious, eggplants a little more mysterious and less laden with obvious signifiers. I will definately tone more deliberately for exhibition. Your idea about the 3rd image is very good, thanks.

Alan, thanks for your hard work in locating the original postings. The light is quite different in both of these. The man by large softbox and strobe, the woman by skylight. I'm glad you don't seem bothered by the differences, fw's suggestion of a 3rd type of light will seque nicely. She is sitting on a black draped chair on untreated muslin with a painted canvas background. Perhaps the "shadow on the right" you speak of is that descending arc of black? It's the curve of the fabric on the chair back. The shadows are illuminated completely by light reflected from the muslin on the ground. I have started using a new paper developer that will open these up the next time I print it. Skylight from directly above is not my favorite. I have made only a few successful images with it, for this reason, it is hard to control. This was one of several shots made through various scrims and unfiltered. I rather like the hand at back left, it has a Michelangelo-ish quality that takes this image even further from a modern sensibility, as far as pictures of naked women go. I'll post another from this series that's still in the running for this set, if you like. Thanks again guys... t

-- tom meyer (twm@mindspring.com), April 24, 2000.

Maybe I'll open up that connection to the arm at back, Alan, to go the other way and make it more prominent, rather than hide it. What do you think? These are both from type 665 negs with an RB67, not the most forgiving media (As Mr. Richards said... "Photography made Difficult")... t

-- tom meyer (twm@mindspring.com), April 24, 2000.

I'll post another from this series that's still in the running for this set, if you like

We (Or I at least) like....

-- Allan Engelhardt (allane@cybaea.com), April 27, 2000.