New Elian Kidnapping Photo Released:

Link

-- Flash (flash@flash.hq), April 22, 2000

Answers

And how about showing the wonderful reunion with his papa? No? Ahh, doesn't fit in with your personal agenda! Parental Right's ABOVE political agenda's!!!!!!

-- Rob (celtic64@inficad.com), April 22, 2000.

LOL

-- (@ .), April 22, 2000.

Lucy, you got some 'splainin' to do!

-- (Desi@Cuba.libre), April 22, 2000.

Rob what kind of parental rights do people in communist countries have?

-- (...@...), April 22, 2000.

good picture flash

Rob you should click the link

-- (...@...), April 22, 2000.

Thanks Flash.

As far as "agenda's" goe, how about Clinton/Reno's agenda's in taking military police style action in what should be handled as a family court matter? Elian's mother died trying to get to the US, why? Is the father fit? These are matters for a family court to decide, not INF commando's.

The more I look into this, the more this whole thing stinks - I have read the appeals court mandate that Elian NOT be removed from this country. The judges chastised the INF for not even talking to the kid, as their own guidlines require in such cases.

And the psychologist the Justice dept used stated that the childs emotional well being was at stake since the kid had been "paraded" for the news media and that any measures should be used to remove him - well, he got his wish. Uh, do you think that maybe Elian seeing the barrel of a commando's gun just MIGHT cause some problems? And what about parading Elian with his father for the news media, just hours later?

Yes, there are agenda's, and they sure aren't the childs wellfare. Just as in Waco, once again Clinton and Reno say to hell with the children.

INF agents in the night, no court order, just the desires of Clinton and Reno. This is a sad day for America.

http://www.law. emory.edu/11circuit/elian1.html

http://libertyforelian.org/

-- FactFinder (FactFinder@bzn.com), April 22, 2000.

****good picture flash

Rob you should click the link ****

@, I just did... got a good chuckle out of it in spite myself! To answer the other question... What difference does it make where his father lives or what type of government is in charge? I mean that in a sincere way... to me, the parent/child bond is stronger than any, and I mean any, government. If we are so lucky as to have children in our lives, then we have certain responsibilities and rights that go along with that! I respect and honor the mothers try, but once she died, the father's rights must be protected, this is his child also. I might be tainted in my views due to a friend at work (a father) who is trying like mad to get his children and has his rights stepped on at every turn.

-- Rob (celtic64@inficad.com), April 22, 2000.

Fact Finder this is the first time I have ever agreed with you.

Thanks for showing up.

-- Your Full Name (Your@Email.Address), April 22, 2000.

This morning NBC again introduced and interviewed the "psychologist" who determined the kid's mental health was at risk staying with the Miami relatives. The "psychologist" clarified he was a pediatrician with no mental health credentials, and then he proceeded to explain how he had told the Justice Department the child's Miami environment was causing severe mental endangerment.

I think this was right before a journalist advised viewers that Cuba had cancelled the spontaneous celebration planned for later in the day.

-- Normally (Oxsys@aol.com), April 22, 2000.

How about genital mutilation. Where the mom and dad both want it for their daughter but she seeks political asylum to escape the horror?

-- (....@...), April 22, 2000.

there have been cases of these,@? I have heard of this practise, but not of a child trying to get asylum becasue of this... And I KNOW that Cuba does not practise this! Elian belongs with his father!

-- Rob (celtic64@inficad.com), April 22, 2000.

Somalia does what if a Somalian girl were seeking asylum for the purpose of avoiding genital mutalation would you good people support her or return her to the horror?

Not a trick question just wondering how far "parental rights" go.

-- (...@...), April 22, 2000.

@- let me go back to what I first said, parental rights ABOVE political agendas. What you are describing is horrendous. I have seen a few stories on this and the few brave women in those countries who have the courage to speak out. Since this isn't(has never been) about politics (more like mutilations), I would support this girls bid at asylum. I wonder though, if we'd get all worked up over a case like this versus how we are all reacting to Elian's case......

-- Rob (celtic64@inficad.com), April 22, 2000.

I wonder though, if we'd get all worked up over a case like this versus how we are all reacting to Elian's case......

Good point.

-- (...@...), April 22, 2000.

taking military police style action in what should be handled as a family court matter?

huh? Since when is an harboring an illegal Elian a family court matter? Family Court supercedes the INS?

I'd like to see the Miami family prosecuted for THEIR illegal acts. Wouldn't want the door to swing both ways huh?

kidnapping? Give me a break.

-- (doomerstomper@usa.net), April 22, 2000.

Rob, in the example you give, If a dozen or so INF agents were to grab the girl and send her back to her parents so that the genital mutilation could be performed, I think we would get worked up even MORE than the Elian case.

The point is that you don't need federal government agents raiding a families house without a court order for political purposes, that is my objection.

I too believe in the rights of the father to have custody, should he be proven fit, just remember that the mother lost her life escaping Cuba, so it should certainly be common sense for a family court to determine fitness of the father to raise the child. If he's deemed fit by a fair judge, then I am all for returning him to his father (and thus Cuba), for certainly this is more important that the politics of US/Cuban relations. But that sure as hell doesn't excuse sending in INF pseudo "commando's" with machine guns without a court order, without a judges ruling, and without a bit of real justice.

The "commando" with macine gun in hand in the photo's facing a fearful Elian is no hero, the man holding Elian is....he's one of the guys that pulled him from the ocean and saved him from drowning, only to face the guns of the US feds...., courtesy of Presidential and Justice department politics. Pathetic.

-- FactFinder (FactFinder@bzn.com), April 22, 2000.

huh? Since when is an harboring an illegal Elian a family court matter? Family Court supercedes the INS?

I'd like to see the Miami family prosecuted for THEIR illegal acts. Wouldn't want the door to swing both ways huh?

kidnapping? Give me a break.

Oh right doomerstomper, this kid saved from drowning is an "illegal alien", not a real kid, so what the heck, lets draw down or weapons on anyone who cares about him. I live near a city where there are probably 15,000 or more illegal aliens from Mexico. The city is working hard to ensure they are integrated into society, can use our hospitals, etc. Have yet to see half a dozen white vans pull up with INF commando's to take a single ONE of them back.

Give US a break, doomerstomper, and don't try to justify the actions of Reno and Clinton, this politcal "taking" of the kid at gunpoint by federal INF "commando's" is indefensible.

-- FactFinder (FactFinder@bzn.com), April 22, 2000.

Oh right doomerstomper, this kid saved from drowning is an "illegal alien", not a real kid,

Why do you twist words FF? Yeah the kid is real, but an ILLEGAL alien none the less. Like it or not. I live near a city where there are probably 15,000 or more illegal aliens from Mexico.The city is working hard to ensure they are integrated into society, can use our hospitals, etc

My gawd -- this doesn't bother you? Let's just drop all our borders then. You pay for them.

The only political agenda is the one spun by the Miami family that continued to upsurp the authority of the US government. The government was fully within their rights to protect themselves from a hostile COMMUNITY of people that refused to comply with US law. The Justice Dept was on the friggin phone TRYING to end it peacefully, yet they just wanted MORE. Reno said "ENOUGH".

You may have a problem with that -- I don't. Sorry if that offends you.

-- (doomerstomper@usa.net), April 22, 2000.

Have yet to see half a dozen white vans pull up with INF commando's to take a single ONE of them back.

On this you are correct FF. It's about time they rounded up ALL the illegal aliens.

-- (doomerstomper@usa.net), April 22, 2000.

-- CD (costavike@hotmail.com), April 22, 2000.

What difference does it make where his father lives or what type of government is in charge? I mean that in a sincere way... to me, the parent/child bond is stronger than any, and I mean any, government.

Except you are ignoring the fact that once Elian gets back to Cuba the father has ZERO parental rights! Elian, and all Cuban children, belong to the STATE first, and to the parents second.

The Cuban govt. has already stated that Elian will go to a camp to be "counceled" which is a fancy way of saying that he will need to be re- programmed to see things as a good little communist should. Elian's father will not have parental rights as we know "parental rights" in this country.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), April 22, 2000.

Nice photo CD, is your intended message "the end justifies the means?" Heard that before, but disagree. Also, do you think there might have been some political elements in how fast we got this photo? ;) And do you think this photo constitutes "proof" that his father is a decent man, or might we consider having a family court judge rule on this, rather than a photographer, or INF agents with guns drawn?

I could show you plenty of "happy" photo's with Elian's caretakers. But much more important are the excesses of a politically motivated Janet Reno and William Clinton:

-- FactFinder (FactFinder@bzn.com), April 22, 2000.

Who took the picture? And if you have seen the video of the 'damage' to the room, consider that the phtographer was standing at the foot of elian's bed, or on it. remember, the one that they said was damaged by the INS guys?

-- eye wonder (paparazzi@the.bedroom), April 23, 2000.

We have no right to be discussing this subject anymore. Fact Finder has told us what we are to believe. All dissenters will be deported to Cuba immediately.

-- He has spoken (Fact@finder.rules), April 23, 2000.

Facts Only:

You believe everything you read? You must not read well then. You have your facts all wrong,half a@@ed and blast everyone else? Read your own articles in full before telling all of us to do that. Jerk.

-- FACTSONLY (ONLYFACTS@XYZ.com), April 23, 2000.