Hey guys,

I attended a seminar the other day about stewardship issues in the church and the speaker advocated an idea that is a little controversial to me but intriguing nonetheless. He said that the preacher should know what the amounts are of the giving and by whom they come. What do you think?

He had reasons for this but I'd be interested in your initial responses first.

-- Anonymous, April 22, 2000

Answers

Not in a million years!!!

-- Anonymous, April 22, 2000

Michael....

Your question is predicated on a the belief that tithing is binding on the Christian.

A premise....I do not accept.

-- Anonymous, April 22, 2000

Scriptures....my oh my...where shall I start??]

"For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one, and broke down the barrier of the dividing into one, and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, by abolishing in his flesh enmity, which is the law of commandment contained in ordinances....." Eph. 2:13-14

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law" Gal. 3:13

"For if the inheritance is based on law, it is not longer based on a promise." Gal. 3:18

"For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would have indeed based upon law." Gal. 3:21

Man....so much....and we still got Romans and the book of Hebrews!!

Now....did I miss in the translation from the Greek somewhere, that Paul said...."except tithing?"

Michael...and Jim for that matter, following the hermeneutic of the R.M...."Where the Bible Speaks"....and "We will call Bible things by Bible names"....do you men see anywhere in the epistles where they gave a lengthy discourse on the topic of tithing???

Did Paul say in I Cor. 16...."On the first day of every week bring your tithes?"

It seems to me, to be consistent with RM principles.....the burden of proof is on you.

If you remember your R.H. correctly, you will know that "tithing" was one of the "burdens of denominationalism"....that the Campbell's, et. al....removed from those who live under grace.

Now I know Michael hates it when I mention the R.M. traditions....but I'm hoping Jim you still have some respect for them.

BTW....unless there is a more substantive argument than the "argument of silence"....I really have nothing more to say on this.

Either the law was done away with....or it wasn't.

What principles were still applicable were clearley enjoined in the N.T.

Tithing was not one of them.

Oh...and Michael....I teach something far greater than tithing. I teach what Paul spoke of in 2 Cor. 8 where he spoke of the overflowing abudant giving of the poor Macedonians because.."they first gave themselves to the Lord." (vs. 5)

I'm much more comfortable teaching the N.T. concept of "Get to"....not "Have to."

-- Anonymous, April 23, 2000

Michael...

You argument is totally based on inference....with no clear "thus saith the Lord" from the N.T.

BTW....the poorest Jew in Israel also had to obey the Sabbath Laws, the purification laws, the "feast laws"....et. al.

Personally.....I know very few "tithers." Because of grace....they go above......because "they get to."

The "principle" of tithing is a good thing to teach as a goal....but then once that goal is achieved.....what then??

Once I tithe.....am I no longer under "obligation" to give any more?

Tithing is not an indication of ones standing with God....therefore, what good does it do for the preacher to know....who is....or who ain't??

Again, I'm more comfortable in teaching people to submit to the Lordship of Christ in all things.....giving then....becomes a non- issue (as Paul indicated in 2 Cor. 8).

The church I'm at is one of the best giving churches I've ever been at. Have not preached a single "giving sermon" yet.

Like I said..."Get to".....not "Have to."

-- Anonymous, April 23, 2000

So does the Sabbath Michael.....and you know that.

-- Anonymous, April 24, 2000

A.Kelly.....

You hit the nail right on the head!!!!!

According to your "humble opinion".....but not according to the N.T.

We are either free from law.....or we are not.

-- Anonymous, April 24, 2000

Michael....

Your "friend" was wrong. The "principle" of the Sabbath was discussed before Sinai. In fact, directions were given before the trip to Sinai. In fact, other Scriptures show that the initial act of God in the creation process of setting the seventh day aside as the establishment of the principle of the Sabbath. You know this to be the case because the Adventist make a big issue of it. They argue that the Sabbath was in place before the law, therefore, it's not a part of the law that was done away with. I think they call it "moral" law. (And yes, they place tithing there as well.)

Alright....I'll answer your question. No.....the promise is no longer applicable because the law is no longer binding.

Does that negate the promise that God blesses the giver?? Good grief no.....the N.T. is replete with Scriptures that show that God blesses those who give. (eg. "Give and it shall be given...."...."As you sow....therefore shall you reap"...et.al.)

I, or no one else said, "We don't preach giving." I don't preach it in the context of tithing....and I don't preach it as the main subject of my sermon.

I preach it as the natural result of the those who have given their lives to Christ. You can't preach exegetically from book to book as I do and not touch on the subject in the course of teaching through the book. However, I just don't preach sermons for the purpose of pounding the idea..."Tithe or you're less a Christian." That's law!!

I got a smile on my face this morning. Here you are....you want to know what each person gives. A very, touchy position to say the least....for what are you going to do once you have the information??

But what brought a smile to my face was....you were the same guy who a couple years ago on my forum VEHEMENTLY rejected the notion of preachers being aware aware of trouble makers that went from congregation to congregation causing trouble and division in the church in order to protect their congregations....(which I believe has a much stronger N.T. stance than tithing. Look at all the people Paul singles out for the churchs to watch).

Your brother...(who doesn't preach tithing),

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

Michael....

This is TOO FUNNY!!!!

You didn't say a thing I disagreed with (at least that would amount to a hill of beans).

But....you have yet to defend "tithing" from the N.T.

My point exactly.

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

AKelley.....

Keep grasping for those straws!!

-- Anonymous, April 26, 2000

Michael....

You constantly try to create a problem which is not a problem. I have nothing to prove. The N.T. Scripture is abudantly clear about what happened to the O.T. law.

We either are under law....or or not.....we are either justified by grace....or by law-keeping.

You want to judge a person's relationship with God by the percentage they give. By that rationale.....is someone who gives 15% a "better Christian" than the one who gives 10%??

Michael....find me just one N.T. verse.....just one....just one.....and I'll give it consideration.

-- Anonymous, April 26, 2000

Michael....

If the best you can do is the argument from silence.....than we are done.

-- Anonymous, April 26, 2000

I think that kinda falls under the category of "let not the left hand know what the right hand is doing" imho.

-- Anonymous, April 22, 2000

Well...would we want to know if someone in our congregation was having an affair? Is robbing God no less serious a spiritual matter? This is his premise. I think that it warrants serious thought on our part.

-- Anonymous, April 22, 2000

I think I would leave the Church of Babylon!

Evil thinking.

-- Anonymous, April 22, 2000

Michael,

I don't know who gave this seminar, but it sounds like he is the type that is completely in favor of the "Pastor" system. Where one man sees all, knows all, does all, and controls all. I can see nothing but division springing up from such a concept. In fact, if you think about it, don't most cults work that way? That is partially how they maintain their control over the people. (And remember, cult leaders often have good "reasons" for wanting this info, so be wary of this fellow's "reasons")

Since giving is often an indication of a person's spiritual problems, it might be beneficial for the church pastors (Elders) to know of a specific situation so that they can minister to that person - but that is as far as it should go.

-- Anonymous, April 22, 2000

Danny,

Even the poorest of the poorest Jew was expected to tithe to God, yet you assert it changes for those of us grafted in? God expected many behavioral and worship acts that are nowhere negated by any NT passage.

Your false belief of the non-binding nature of tithing would then necessitate that God allows for regression of spiritual obligations. Show me anywhere in the NT, where there was first an OT expectation that was lessened in the NT? Such as God's expectations of faithfulness in marriage? Is that lessened in the NT? Are the expectations of the OT not applicable to the NT believer?

How can one say anything different concerning tithing. Where, oh where, Danny is you book, chapter, verse support for not thinking tithing is binding? Where does the NT rescind the promise in Malachi? Was the promise of the rainbow ever rescinded from Noah's day? Neither was the promise God made about those who tithe. And for that matter, the warning of that same text has never been rescinded either...that those who don't tithe, ROB GOD.

To say that tithing isn't binding on us who are grafted in of necessity requires a spiritual regression in the NT that has no basis of fact. Come on, Danny. You should know better. I, for one, don't want to be held accountable for preaching something that falls short of the whole counsel...and tithing is certainly included in that.

-- Anonymous, April 22, 2000

Michael,

I'm with you on this one. You hit the nail on the HEAD!

-- Anonymous, April 22, 2000

Danny,

You quote a vast amount of NT Scriptures that speak of the "curse" of the law, why do you include tithing in that? Getting swept up in this debate is common among many in our movement, but it is the wrong debate. I believe the real question is this: Does the promise of Malachi 3:9-10 still apply today? I believe with all my heart that it does.

You said: What principles were still applicable were clearley enjoined in the N.T.

Not true, Danny. I have yet to find any passage in the NT that rescinded this promise, just as I have found no NT passage that ever rescinded God's rainbow promise about a flood. Do you believe God will never destroy the earth by water again? How do you know? Your confidence is certainly based on the promise found in Genesis 9:12- 16. This promise didn't have to be restated in the NT in order to be valid today, just as the promise of Proverbs 3:5-6 about guidance didn't have to be restated. God's promise in regard to tithing is no different. Our decision to give 10% of our income back to God reflects our reliance on him as the source of all our blessings. This kind of faith pleases the LORD and brings abundant blessing

To advocate tithing is not falling prey to legalistic righteousness as you asserted to me.

Jesus taught His followers to live by a higher standard than the one given in the OT. Jesus contrasted the requirements of the law with the plan for his followers. In the OT, we're told, "DO not murder," but in the NT..."Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer (1 John 3:15). We're told in the OT, "Do not commit adultery," but in the NT, "Anyone who lusts commits adultery in his heart" (Matt. 5:28). We're told in the OT, "Do not swear falsely by God's name," but in the NT, "Do not swear at all" (Matt. 5:34). AND we're told in the NT, "The entire tithe wil be holy to the LORD" , but in the NT "Give as you are prospered" (1 Cor. 16:2).

Jesus always calls for greater faithfulness and commitment than was required in the OT. Can tithing possibly be an exception? It follows clearly that noone who wants to be faithful to God would ever think of doing less than the OT believers. Remember, too, Danny, that Christ came to fulfill the LAW, not to destroy it. And Hebrews 10:1 says, "The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming - not the realities themselves." Jesus came to bring us the "good things." And if we want these things in our life we must sow the seeds necessary to reap them. God's whole counsel teaches that faithfulness in tithing is one of the pathways to receiving the spiritual and physical blessings he desires for us.

-- Anonymous, April 23, 2000

We Christians have a greater responsibility than a "tithe." EVERYTHING we own is to be God's, including our own lives! We are to present our very selves as living sacrifices! Seems to me that the "tithe" has been done away with, for something far more reaching in scope! No longer 10%, but 100%!

-- Anonymous, April 23, 2000

John and Danny,

It is nice to be able to say I am with you an this point. Romans is especially clear that the old law is done away with, and the new requirements of gratitude and service are more comprehensive. I am not my own, but belong body and soul, in life and in death, to my faithful savior Jesus Christ. If we only use 10% for His Kingdom, what a huge overhead we are taking for our own comfort and use!

Some tithe preachers give the gospel a bad reputation, by seeming to be in it to get more money out of the congregation. Yet, I believe that Christians are blessed when they sacrifice for the cause of Christ - and not only in financial sacrifice through giving, or in financial blessings. In my experience we have many family examples where a sacrifice was rewarded in other ways. That too can be abused, by those who ask the congregation to, "send in $100, and God will reward you 10 fold." That is the wrong reason to be of service, and an expectation that is not supported by scripture.

-- Anonymous, April 23, 2000

Good stuff, guys.

I think the congregation should hire an outside accountant to do the deposits. Neither a preacher or any individual member ought to know who gives how much.

I do think that we SHOULD tithe, based on the idea presented before, that the New Covenant deserves FAR MORE than the old...

So, in principle, we SHOULD tithe (and then some)

But I have not seen a clear argument (YET) for "we MUST tithe..."

Keep it up!

-- Anonymous, April 23, 2000

'Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: judgment, mercy, and faith; these you ought to have done, without leaving the other undone.'

Matthew 23:23.

Matthew 6:1-4:

1: Take heed that you do not your alms before men, to be seen of them; otherwise you have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

2: Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

3: But when you do your alms, let not your left hand know what your right hand does:

4: That your alms may be in secret; and your Father Who sees in secret himself shall reward you openly.

-- Anonymous, April 23, 2000

Michael,

My initial response is that the amount of what people give is really none of my business. I do, however, find that knowing whether people give or not is helpful. May I expain briefly.

Someone said something to the affect: "You can tell where a person is spiritually," (in part) "by looking at their checkbook." Although, there may be exceptions to this, it does tend to be revealing.

I do not look into what people give. In fact, I go out of my way to keep from knowing that information. I do know who gives regularly though. I keep that information to myself. I do not discuss it with anyone except for the one who deposits the checks...

That information I can pray about and consider it as I do my best to discern what the people's spiritual needs are. A primary responsibility that I have to the church, is to discern the spiritual condition of individuals and then to help them to grow by individually. Now, I know that we can do that generally through group teaching, however, most growth happens on the person to person level... That is where I try to spend a great deal of time.

Yes, this responsibility mainly lies in the perview of the elders. And they accept that responsibility and carry it out. But, I too, bear similar responsibility and I look to personal patterns that would indicate what their needs are. Therein I can be most helpful. Finally, let me say, I utilize information not to judge, but to discern needs and fulfill them.... At least that is my goal

For what it is worth that is one little man's opinion.

-- Anonymous, April 24, 2000

If I remember correctly, J. W. McGarvey wrote in his book "Sermons" that the elders of the church should evaluate a Christian's financial possibilities and stipulate an amount. He did not propose tithing, but suggested that the individual did not have the objectivity to set a proper amount. I do not have the volume before me just now, but I believe that represents the essence of his point. He certainly would not fit in the category of one who advocates the authoritative pastor system. His sermon on the subject of giving deserves consideration, but would individualistic Americans, jealous of their pocketbooks, tolerate such a practice? In so many cases, elders won't even take action against adultery!

Randal in Brazil - http://forthright.cjb.net

-- Anonymous, April 24, 2000

Danny,

God says in Malachi 3:10 that he will "throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have enough room for it."

Are you saying that He can't/won't do the same today?

And another question...you stated in an earlier response that you haven't ever preached on money. Is that something to be proud of? Jesus talks about money in 16 out of 38 parables. 1 out of 10 verses in the Gospels deal with money. The Bible devotes 500 verses on prayer; less than 500 verses on faith; but over 2,000 verses on money and possessions. In my opinion, if so much emphasis is given on this subject in Scripture...you better be preaching on it!

As preachers, we are fearful of dealing with this subject because we compartmentalize it. "That's a private matter," we say. And all the while we fail to understand the connections to the spiritual health of our individuals in the congregations we serve are directly linked with how they handle their money. Jesus didn't say, "where your heart is, there your treasure will be also." He said, "Where your money is that is where your heart is."

Those that revert to the "tithing died with the law" argument are incorrectly assuming that I think tithing only is important. God owns it all is Scripture's assessment. And tithing is a good "starting point" for givers in God's church, but it should by no means be the end. By the way, tithing pre-dates the law Danny. You know that.

-- Anonymous, April 24, 2000

The faithful Christian not only will tithe, but give it all to God to use for His glory and His honor. All I possess belongs to God- this we find in Acts 2. Nowhere does tithing stop- but in fact we as NT Christians are to go beyond the tithe and surpass it. Danny, the grace issue does not apply for those who give $1 in the offering and claim to be faithful Christians (and they may earn $40,000)- that my friend is making the grace of God cheap! Does does not need our money- but He wants our heart! Where does our hearts tend to lay- in the checkbook. In my humble opinion those who are sold out and radical for Jesus, will not only tithe but give all they own to the Lord and His Church- they in turn know that it is the Lord who will provide as scripture DOES over and over state in both OT and NT passages.

-- Anonymous, April 24, 2000

Danny, here is a challenge... prove to me from the scriptures where I am wrong! Can you prove that my humble opinion is biblically inaccurate? Can you prove beyond a shadow of doubt that I am wrong in what I say? Can you point to any scripture that proves as a proof text that the tithe is no longer binding upon a Christian? Can you prove that God will not bless with showers from the storerooms of heaven that we will not have enough room to hold it, due to the tithe? And here is the big clincher, can you prove that the hermeneutic that you use to reveal your understanding is not faulty (without any exception)?

-- Anonymous, April 24, 2000

Getting back to the original question, which was not about whether or not we should tithe, but whether or not the preacher should know how much individuals are giving. I agree with John Wilson's original answer. I know that most churches in the U.S. do keep track of how much individuals give, provided they either give by cheque or use numbered offering envelopes -- and that most people accept it, since the IRS gives tax breaks for charitable giving, but requires proof. But it makes me uneasy.

Looking at it, not from the standpoint of the church and the preacher, but from the standpoint of the giver, are you violating the commandment to not let the right hand know what the left hand is doing if you give through a church where anyone more than the treasurer knows how much you gave? Are you violating the commandment if the minister knows, and you know that he will be evaluating your "performance" as a Christian, based on how much you gave?

-- Anonymous, April 24, 2000

If the law is dead, and we are to respond in gratitude and service with our whole self, and live our whole life in all aspects as service to Christ; the tithe is no longer enough, and no longer an issue. It is all His, and the question for each Christian is whether they are using the talent and income they are given properly. That may mean a tithe (or more) for their local church, and a monthly committment in support of missions (local and foreign), and a committment in support of a Christian education for their own children and others in the congregation, and expenses for service work for the cause of Christ, and time taken from work (and lost income) in order to do service work, and the reduced income that results from going into full time work for the church or in Christian education instead of higher paying positions in private enterprise. Christians need to see their talents and income as a means that should be available for the cause of Christ, and look for how they may be put to good use. The early church in Jerusalem seems to have gone a bit far in giving beyond the tithe, and finally destituted themselves and needed help from other churches. I mention that as a caution.

The point of the above is that the contribution to the local church may be a small fraction of what a Christian is giving. Christians give where they see a need, and where the Holy Spirit moves them to respond to that need. Make the needs known, and God will provide; but to pressure, or coerce, or shame members into greater giving is the wrong way to develope cheerful givers. The right hand should not know what the left is doing, and that seems to mean the donation records should be confidential - even from the pastor and elders.

Connie already provided all the proof texts that should be necessary.

To be honest, this issue sounds like some want to be able to advise follow Christians on what more they SHOULD be doing for the church. A better approach is to inform fellow Christians what more we all COULD be doing for Christ, and let the Holy Spirit convict them concerning what they should do.

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

Danny...

You are again wrong in your assumption. As a good friend had written and e-mailed me said about your response, "The Sabbath was not made known until Moses came down from the mount! Nehemiah 9:13 & 14. No one kept the Sabbath until then. One cannot do what God had not revealed!"

Danny, you never answered my question from my last post. Is the promise of Malachi 3:10 still applicable today? And if not, where was it rescinded? And if it is applicable, then what on earth is this discussion of tithing taking place for.

Tithing is binding on the NT believer and more so. Not just 10%, but more so...all of it belongs to the LORD! 10% is the starting point.

And please answer this other question...if so much attention is given in Scripture to the topic of money, why are most preachers avoiding the topic like the plague?

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

I just happened to be browsing in the "Sheep Comics" website and ran across the following, which I think says some things very pertinent to what is being discussed in this thread.

http://www.sheepcomics.com/strips/percent/percent.htm

Enjoy!

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

Danny,

You say the promise is no longer applicable because the law is no longer binding...well, as I asked, where is the promise rescinded? You are now the one arguing from inference.

And concerning past discussions on your old forum...well, things change. My views have changed.

Also, let's keep things straight. I did not say that "I" want to examine what everybody gives. I heard this in a seminar and the thought is intriguing to me but not something I practice. I think I can see the validity in such a practice.

As I said before, some say dedicate the heart and the money will follow; but our Lord put it the other way around. "Where you treasure is, there will your heart be also." If your treasure is dedicated, your heart will be dedicated. If it is not, it simply won't. It is as simple as that.

Did you realize that nationwide in Protestant churches the average annual gift is $408.00. The number of people that typically attend church before one stays is 5. It is typically 3 years before that person begins to give the average gift. This is pitiful. By the way these stats come from Barna's book, "How to Increase Giving in Your Church."

Do you think that the RM churches are going to be so vastly dissociated from Protestantism that these same stats won't hold true in our churches? I think they will be worse, Danny, because most RM preachers don't want to be like the Denom. preachers and talk about money, so we have fostered a system that is breeding God-Robbers right from our very pews.

For these national stats to be in line with Biblical giving that would mean that the average church-goer has an annual salary of $4080.00. But you've been saying the NT teaches not tithing but giving generously as you've been blessed. Where is the generosity in these national figures Danny? Where is the generosity in our RM churches? It isn't there because the solid facts are that we have created a generation of God-Robbers who don't even know they are robbing God because their preacher is too scared of offending someone by preaching about stewardship of their money. That is a grievious sin for which the preacher will be held accountable.

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

As I said before, some say dedicate the heart and the money will follow; but our Lord put it the other way around. "Where you treasure is, there will your heart be also." If your treasure is dedicated, your heart will be dedicated. If it is not, it simply won't. It is as simple as that.

Michael, you are using a misreading of this passage. You are, in fact, AGREEING with those to whom you refer in your first sentence. Dedicate the heart, and the money will follow. Jesus in no way says that the giving of the money comes before the giving of the heart. He is saying that where the money goes SHOWS where the heart is dedicated.

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

The 'this' is the weightier matters of the Law; and 'the other' is tithing. From the New Testament.

And of course that is just the beginning of giving. I believe there are two references saying the same thing in the N.T.

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

And let's not forget the widow's mite!

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

... Which was not a tithe, it was 100%.

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

What about "You are apriest forever in the order of Melchizedek" Hebrews 7:17. Many scholars will say that this Melchizedek was Christ himself if not a theophany. Then the natural progression follows, if Christ is or even if He is "like" Melchizedek- then the tithe is a natural thing for the true worshipper to start with. God not only wants us to START with the tithe, but give it all. But, if we do not at least tithe then how can we give it all?

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

John Wilson...

The widow's mite helps my case, not yours. She gave all that she had. But she certainly didn't give less than 10%. The tithe is the foundation for giving, period. Not just the tithe, but much more so, but it starts with the tithe.

-- Anonymous, April 26, 2000

Danny,

AKelley is usually wrong, but not this time (sorry AKelley). He is right about the foundational nature of the tithe. What you have not shown is how it can be acceptable under the New Covenant to give back to God less than that which occurred under the Old. Explain please...because I am extremely interested in knowing how we should regress spiritually.

-- Anonymous, April 26, 2000

Sam Loveall...

You are wrong. Jesus does indeed say that. He says if your money is dedicated to God (treasure, possessions) then so will your heart be. He does not say dedicate the heart first. That is a natural progression of the dedication of our material things. The checkbook is usually the last thing to come into the church (and it's the first thing to leave)!

-- Anonymous, April 26, 2000

Danny,

And you find for me just one NT verse, just one, that would even remotely imply that tithing is not to be the foundation for giving in the NT.

-- Anonymous, April 26, 2000

Michael:

You are making much too big a deal of the phrase order in this verse. Jesus is not stating a linear cause-and-effect order.

Here's the same wording on another matter: If I don't cheat on my wife, then I love my wife. Now which came first, the not cheating or the loving? The loving came first, of course. The not cheating is BECAUSE of the loving, not the other way around. In the verse under discussion, Jesus lists two things, an action and a motivation. The order in which he lists them has no impact on their relationship.

-- Anonymous, April 26, 2000

While you are comparing standards of giving today with those in the Old Testament and the New Testament, I wonder if it might not be good at the same time to compare the uses made of the money in New Testament times with the ways we use it today. Perhaps, to sustain the percentages used for benevolence (both inside the congregation and in help to other congregations) and "foreign missions", compared to the income of the members of the congregation, people today should be giving 50%, 70%, or more of their incomes to the church. We spend so much more today on "ourselves", for buildings and their upkeep, for ministers and staff, etc.

It's a thought!

-- Anonymous, April 27, 2000

Want N.T. instruction on Tithing? Check out I Cor. 9:13-14: "Do you not know tyhat those who perform sacred services eat the food of the temple, and those who attend regularly tot he altar have their share with the altar? SO ALSO the Lord directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel."

Paul uses the concept of tithing at the temple, (as well as the other sacrifices) to show that those who proclaim the gospel to make their living by the gospel. Paul is not necessarily refering to the sin offerings and guilt offerings because those are fulfilled in Christ. This coincides with Deut. 26:1-4: "Then it shall be, when you enter the land which the Lord your God gives you as an inherentance, and you p[ossess it and live init, that you shall take some of the first of all your produce of the ground which you shall bring in from your land that the Lord gives you, and you shall put it in a basket and go to the PLACE WHERE THE LORD YOUR GOD CHOOSES TO ESTABLISH HIS NAME (now the church, spiritual Zion, Heb 12:22-23), and you shall go to the priest who is in office at that time, and say to him, "I declare this day to the Lord my God that I have enteed the land which the Lord swore to our fathers to give us." Then the priest shall take the basket from your hand and set it down before the altar of the Lord your God." Now the tithe was for "the Levite, to the stranger, to the orphan and the widow." Yet Paul only makes application to the ones who proclaim the gospel. It is kind of like circumcision. We do not take all of the requirements of circumcision and transfer them ofver to the New, only what Paul states in Col. 2, (otherwise we would be immersing only 8 day old Jewish males.)

This is some study I have done. I could be wrong.

Matt.

-- Anonymous, April 27, 2000

A little humor... Fits just right with the opening question.

Two men were stranded on an island. One was going crazy repeating over and over, "We are going to die." The other sat calmly leaning against the palm tree.

"Can't you see we are going to die?" The crazed man screamed. "How can you just sit there like everything is ok?"

The calm man crossed his legs and seemed to make himself a bit more comfortable. "You don't understand. I make $10,000 a week."

"WHAT?! We are going to die and you think because you make $10,000 a week its ok. We have no food, water, and no store to buy anything at."

"Calm down. I said I make $10,000 a week. I tithe 10% of that each week."

"SO WHAT - WE ARE GOING TO DIE!!!!!!!!!"

"Didn't you hear me? I tithe 10% of that each week. My preacher will find me..."

-- Anonymous, April 27, 2000

Reminds me of an old joke I heard once about a catholic, protestant and rabbi discussing how much to give to God. I don't remember the whole joke but I think it was something like they drew a circle on the ground, and then threw the money up into the air ... one of them collected the money that fell inside the circle, saying the rest belonged to God, one of them collected the money that fell outside the circle ... and the rabbi picked it all up, saying that obviously when he threw it up in the air God didn't keep any of it so it was all his.

-- Anonymous, April 28, 2000

Michael, here is a question, what am I usually wrong? Perhaps I should quit the ministry... because I am wrong.

-- Anonymous, April 29, 2000

Someone wanted a N.T. scripture referencing Tithing.Read carefully The 7th chapter of Hebrews especially verse 8 and explain how this pertains to us today?

-- Anonymous, May 04, 2000

If we devote all that we have to His service, we don't need to worry about a tithe.

In Him,

-- Anonymous, May 04, 2000

I have just begun questioning the tithe and its meaning to the Christian. If one does believe that the Christians are supposed to tithe, how do you reply to this question,"Why is the system of collection of today's churches different from the jewish tradition?"

Are you guys still talking aboout this?

-- Anonymous, April 29, 2001

Here is some food for thought...IF none tithed, HOW would the church survive?

For those who have and are tithing, do you not get back MORE than what you place in the envelope?

10%.

-- Anonymous, May 01, 2001