Did EY know what he was doing?

greenspun.com : LUSENET : TB2K spinoff uncensored : One Thread

I haven't seen all the threads posted recently so I apologize if this was discussed previously. I would really like to know your thoughts on Ed's motives. Did he really believe in a ten year depression? How could he conclude that with little to no evidence? Did he want something more? Fame? Having people worship him? (Brown nosing can be a great motivator) Now that we didn't even experience a peeble in the road, more like smooth as silk, why can't he say "I'm an idiot" and retire from the IT world? Does he expect to get any business? Just curious.

-- Maria (maria947@hotmail.com), April 13, 2000

Answers

I think that Yourdon did believe most of what he wrote, especially early on, although he knew that it was merely speculation. Where I have a problem with him is his refusal to moderate his position as events began to unfold. This, I believe, was caused by his ego and the "celebrity" status that he began to enjoy.
Just my $0.02.

-- abc (123@456.789), April 13, 2000.

On Yourdon
http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002mDC

-- March 2000 thread (on@Ed.Yourdon), April 13, 2000.

Thanks for the link. I'm reading through it and find some good discussion. I guess I agree that Ed's ego is enormous. His ego motivated him to continue. He stated his predictions quite clearly and enjoyed the praise he got for them. He didn't know anything about the IT world, yet was able to cover up his ignorance.
In that link Flint said that he's an intelligent person. Sorry, I don't believe that anymore. He "stole" his ideas about metrics from his peers and used them to substantiate his predictions. I first wrote that these metrics didn't apply to Y2K back in 98 and hardliner jumped all over me (with Ed's support). Ed was blinded by his ego to see his error in logic. He did lots of hand waving without any research into his "accusations". He knew nothing about the gov's effort into Y2K, yet repeatedly and emphatically stated they were doing nothing. Based on no data, he assumes nothing is happening. Sounds like ego to me. And I'll conclude stupidity.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), April 13, 2000.

Why can't you people just move on?????
It seems the lack of anything spectacular happening at the rollover has had more of an impact on you pollies than it ever did on us doomers.
We were wrong about the possibble impact on our lives BIG FUCKING DEAL!
Move on.

-- Big Fat Sally (dynamite@witha.laserbeam), April 13, 2000.

Maria (hi there -- hope you are well), you wrote:
Based on no data, he assumes nothing is happening.
If you remember, many (if not most) of the self-proclaimed "Y2K experts" made exactly the same assumption. They concluded that because they didn't know specific information, either the information didn't exist (as in, "they" weren't doing Y2K remediation) or "they" were covering up massive problems.
The question I asked time and again (and still ask) is why these "experts" felt they had any right to any information in the first place. There were people out there who, on the advice of "experts", demanded Y2K status information from utilities, government, etc. Yes, to a certain degree the public absolutely has a right to this type of information. But these people were demanding testing information, code information, etc. Assuming they have the right to such proprietary information (I don't really feel they have that right in many circumstances), what were they going to do with this information? It was highly unlikely they could understand the technical aspects, so why was it so hell-fire important to have it in the first place? To further complicate the matter, no matter what information these entities released, it was looked upon as "lies, spin, cover-up, conspiracy" (unless, of course, there was even a hint of "bad news" -- then it was Gospel).
It got even funnier (if you have a twisted sense of humor) when those of the pessimistic persuasion then started screaming "why are they building $50 million command centers if nothing's wrong????". My answer to that was (and is) "BECAUSE OF YOU AND ED AND THE REST OF YOUR ILK!!"
You just can't win.
Ego. Plain and simple, as you stated.
You also pointed out that it still continues to this day and I have to agree with your reasoning -- the "celebrity" status enjoyed by Ed and others simply went to their heads.
Just my less-than-two-cents opinion here.

-- Patricia (PatriciaS@lasvegas.com), April 13, 2000.

Big Fat Sally(or whoever you are who keeps changing their handle) said:
"Why can't you people just move on????? It seems the lack of anything spectacular happening at the rollover has had more of an impact on you pollies than it ever did on us doomers.
We were wrong about the possibble impact on our lives BIG FUCKING DEAL!
Move on. "
I think the reason most people have not moved on is clear-there is much to learn from analysis of what went down pre-y2k from our little fragment of the world.
There was a lot of emotional and spiritual damage done by doomers to any who disagreed with their end-of-the-world scenarios, and some of those that were hurt are airing that hurt and in some cases looking for apologies that they will obviously not get.
It was not just that people like you were wrong-it WAS that you treated people reprehensibly and should be held accountable for your reactions.
Now when those who were attacked want to hold you accountable, you want to run along--you want to say how silly it is to be held accountable. In our own way, I guess we are holding our version of the nuremburg trials-We will call this the:
Timebomb2000 doomer trials.

-- FutureShock (gray@matter.think), April 13, 2000.

Big Fat Sally, Look up the meaning of the word forum. Thanks for sharing your opinion but I would like to discuss it. You admit you were wrong but Ed hasn't. I would take a guess that his reluctance points to a large ego too. And contrary to what you say, it is a big fucking deal, millions of dollars worth of a big fucking deal. Many businesses wasted millions on IV&V and contingency planning because of FUD and lawyers' advice.
Hi Patricia, you're so right. The public (Heller and journalists included) wouldn't have a clue after they read any testing report. Yet they demanded to know and wouldn't take a simple "we've completed remediation". You're also right about the contingency planning. BAU would have been just fine but the FUD from Eddie and his ilk forced it. I sat at my computer at work all through the night, just watching. I remember trying to convince my VP that IV&V was a waste. He just said that we're doing it anyway. Oh well, since I missed this New Years, I'll do something special for the next.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), April 13, 2000.

Hey Maria, what are you doing now that Y2K is over? I hear you're 'consulting' to Burger King.

-- Wally Whopper (have it@your.way), April 13, 2000.

Maria my friend!! Good to see you're still around. Hope everything is going well. Life goes on down here.
I still can't believe some of the stuff that comes across these discussion boards. Ya know, some of the doomiest still haven't hit their Y2K deadline yet.......YIKES!!! (kinda scary ain't it?).
I'm realizing one thing though, there toward the end of 1999 those of us involved in Y2K (here) didn't have a whole lot to do. Now that it's over, I've got a 'real job' again (yuck).
Ed's motives?? Had to be $$. I'm sure it didn't play out like he had originally planned, but I also think it wasn't a complete failure for him either thanks to the suckers out there. Did he know what he was talking about? Obviously not.
Is it Friday yet?? Take care!!
Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), April 13, 2000.

"Now when those who were attacked want to hold you accountable, you want to run along--you want to say how silly it is to be held accountable. In our own way, I guess we are holding our version of the nuremburg trials-"

Its four months past the rollover why do you people continue to waste you lives away analizing and reanalizing.
I guess you really like feeling that corn cob up your butt.
GET OVER IT AND GET OVER YOURSELVES!
Emotional and spiritual damage Talk about wearing your feelings on your sleve.
You are just mad cause the big kids took their toys and went to another playground and you can't go.
Get Over it.
Quit perseverating.
Maria you seem nice enough you said
And contrary to what you say, it is a big fucking deal, millions of dollars worth of a big fucking deal. Many businesses wasted millions on IV&V and contingency planning because of FUD and lawyers' advice.
Millions of dollars are wasted all the time I don't see how Ed admitting he was wrong(he never will) will change any of that.
I think back in June(?) when he tried to leave the movement was as close as he will ever come.

-- Big Fat Sally (dynamite@withalaser.beam), April 13, 2000.

Quit perseverating.
Sally,
Please tell me what perseverating is! It sounds like something really bad and I'd like to stop doing it.

-- abc (123@456.789), April 13, 2000.

Its four months past the rollover why do you people continue to waste you lives away analizing and reanalizing.
I guess you really like feeling that corn cob up your butt.
GET OVER IT AND GET OVER YOURSELVES!
Emotional and spiritual damage Talk about wearing your feelings on your sleve.
You are just mad cause the big kids took their toys and went to another playground and you can't go.
Get Over it.
When I misjudge a situation or make a mistake I like to see if I can figure out where I went wrong. It makes me a better person, learning from my errors. I'd hate to think that I am stuck being that which I always was.
And as far as the "big kids" going to another playground, why are the "big kids" afraid to allow selected "little kids" (by inference) to play as well? What are they afraid of? Sounds a bit cowardly to me.
Quit perseverating.
Perseverating: The painful act of removing human limbs from fully awake individuals. To be avoided whenever possible.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), April 13, 2000.

1. the act or process of perseverating. 2. Psychiatry.the pathological, persistent repetition of a word, gesture, or act, often associated with brain damage or schizophrenia.
"When I misjudge a situation or make a mistake I like to see if I can figure out where I went wrong. It makes me a better person, learning from my errors. I'd hate to think that I am stuck being that which I always was."
Agreed but Unc its April 14th why can't these people just move on and why the continuos blaming of Ed was he really that powerful that he caused this whole movement singlhandedly?
"And as far as the "big kids" going to another playground, why are the "big kids" afraid to allow selected "little kids" (by inference) to play as well? What are they afraid of? Sounds a bit cowardly to me."
Who really cares? They are having fun over at their new playground and some seem to be healing and moving on. As far as locking some "little kids" out well if was only to avoid this kind of constant banter I can see why they did it.

-- Big Fat Sally (dynamite@withalaser.beam), April 13, 2000.

There seems to be a double standard about Y2K preparation. It was OK for businesses to do so, but not individuals.
http://www.computerworld.com/home/print.nsf/CWFlash/990628B142
Link
06/28/99 Mary Livens is working hard to make New Year's Eve as boring as possible. Livens, year 2000 project leader at Medical Mutual of Ohio in Cleveland, is helping assemble a Y2K command center that can react quickly to any disruptions that might occur at the date rollover.
Many corporations are apparently doing the same. A survey of Fortune 500 firms released last month by Cap Gemini America LLC in New York found 85% of the companies surveyed plan to build Y2K command centers or crisis-management centers up from 40% just five months earlier.

-- (-+-@+-+.-+-), April 13, 2000.

All you have to do Big Fat Sally is disengage. You really don't have to hit the submit key. As I said in the question; Just curious.
And yes, Ed had a big (BIG) hand in what went down. Why did so many people follow his "teachings"? Don't know.
Hey Deano, glad to see you're still around. How's the beach? When I retire I plan on moving there. You mentioned Ed's plan didn't play out as originally planned. I wonder about that. Did he really believe in a ten year depression? Curious about how frantically he was trying to sell his "Metrics" publication for a mere $895 for the yearly subscription. (A bit overpriced if you ask me) During a depression, did he really think he could sustain that business? Too many conflicts. He was playing lots of angles hoping to beat the odds.
And now Sally says we should move on. When I'm ready. I couldn't find answers in the old forum, so I'm trying in this one. (What toys did the big kids take? Whatever, they can have them along with the silly little sand box rules.)

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), April 13, 2000.

It was also articles like this one that made some people wonder if they needed to take some precautions of their own.
"Cold War Bunker Made Air Force Y2K Post (Federal Computer Week)"
http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001MhP

-- (Welcome@back.Maria), April 13, 2000.

There seems to be a double standard about Y2K preparation. It was OK for businesses to do so, but not individuals.
Who said individuals shouldn't prepare?

-- (hmm@hmm.hmm), April 13, 2000.

Ah Sally, I thought that was you Diane! Let's see if I got the logic straight. FUD, promoted by Eddie, led businesses and gov to establish "above and beyond" contingency planning. This leads doomers to say, if the businesses and gov do it, then there must be something to it... WE need to prepare. It also leads doomers to say that Eddie must be right since everyone's preparing. Which leads to more praise for Eddie. Which leads Eddie to speak more "truths" about Y2K.
I believe strongly in preparing. I went out and bought 5 extra cans of soup, specifically for Y2K outages. So what's the point of the Air Force's article? My question still stands: What were Ed's motives? I've concluded ego. Did he know what he was doing? I've concluded no.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), April 13, 2000.

Old Git...OOh I mean -- Big Fat Sally,
Who are you to tell us to "get over" anything? Sounds like you believe you have some right to decide what others think about and post about. Sounds really familiar...
We can post our opinions and have the discussions we choose to have here, if you don't like it, you do not have to come here and read them.
It really is rude to think that you decide what is written on this forum!!!
Kinda sounds like something you are used to doing.
So we will post what we please about what we please for as long as we please and we do not owe you any explanation as to why, and we don't have to do as you are
demandingwe do about any of it.
By the way, the big kids can have their toys and bully the little kids who play with them. We adults have outgrown those behaviors.
Ed knew in early 1999 that Y2K would not end up as he had predicted. That is why when he testified about Y2K in front of the panel in D.C. he didn't say anything.
Yep I mean exactly that. He did not warn them that there would be mass problems (as his forum was set up to discuss), he did not say things would not be bad at all either.
Now if he had believed things would be bad, he would have said so. He did not. But he also did not say things were looking good either. Why? Probably because he wanted those who listened to him to believe that things would still be bad. What reason would he have for needing them to continue to believe this? Geeze, I donno, unless maybe he had a reason, such as profit. There was money to be made in keeping people believing the worse. A lot of people could profit from people needing supplies that would help them prepare for the worse.
Unless he had some other reason for not telling his readers (in TB2000) about how well things were going, and I cannot think of any, then "By my personal evaluation it is my opinion"that he did it for his own personal profit.
My opinion only
What was he involved in that could cause him to profit from the fear of the people who trusted his word?
Who was he scalping while they adorned him with praise and adoration? He read the paper in early 1999 that showed that power would not be lost. Why did he allow his forum friends continue to believe that power would be lost? By not telling them what he knew, was he allowing them to continue to believe his description of what N.Y. would look like with no lights? By withholding information in other areas that he had been given information on was he manipulating the very same people who respected him and trusted him and believed in him just so he could profit from them?
It has to make you wonder just what he thought of those people. Could it have been contempt? Did he feel disgust at their worshipful attitude toward him? Was it like shooting fish in a barrow?
Or perhaps he was indifferent to them as individuals and/or as a group. After all, business is business.
After all, he did show some signs of it once in a while. Like when he told people to stop their whining, he had something important to do-when he found out he was going to testify about Y2K.
But then, this is only my personal opinion-right or wrong.

-- Cherri (sams@brigadoon.com), April 13, 2000.

Maria
I'm not Diane can't you tell with all my spelling and punctuation mistakes?
Why did you use an e-mail address in your question but change it for all your responses?

-- Johnny (Not@anymore.net), April 13, 2000.

Perseverating: The painful act of removing human limbs from fully awake individuals. To be avoided whenever possible.
Hey Uncle Deedah, does your dictionary happen to date back to about the time of the Spanish Inquisition?

-- abc (123@456.789), April 13, 2000.

1. the act or process of perseverating. 2. Psychiatry.the pathological, persistent repetition of a word, gesture, or act, often associated with brain damage or schizophrenia.
Sorry, I meant to say "The persistent repetitive act of removing human limbs from fully awake individuals, usually performed by brain damaged schizophrenics."
Agreed but Unc its April 14th why can't these people just move on and why the continuos blaming of Ed was he really that powerful that he caused this whole movement singlhandedly?
Errr, umm, I am one of "these" people. I spent two years of my shallow empty life worried about Y2K, four months and fourteen days of post-game analisis is not that big a deal in comparison.
And Ed was an "expert". I hardly think it unfair that his "expert" projections and actions in regard to Y2K are being questioned and debated. His "expert" opinions influenced many people.
"And as far as the "big kids" going to another playground, why are the "big kids" afraid to allow selected "little kids" (by inference) to play as well? What are they afraid of? Sounds a bit cowardly to me."
Who really cares? They are having fun over at their new playground and some seem to be healing and moving on. As far as locking some "little kids" out well if was only to avoid this kind of constant banter I can see why they did it.
I am glad for folks who are having fun, healing, and moving on. "well if was only to avoid this kind of constant banter I can see why they did it" One man's constant banter is another man's healing and introspection, hell, even one man's flogging of dead horses. So what? The doom side had one hell of a lot to say (myself included) before roll-over, much of it nasty and smug. I can see why some folks would rather forget that, me, I'm not afeared.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), April 13, 2000.

Perseverating is more like this, this, this, this.
What was I going to say, say, say, say?
Frank Frank Frank
Haven't yet seen it applied to ripping limbs off someone one one.

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), April 13, 2000.

Cherri, So, do you think that Ed was deceitful? He predicted a ten-year depression and stuck with that until 1/1/00 (actually I don't know when he gave up on this prediction). I'm thinking he believed in the doom but didn't say so in DC only because he didn't want to be pinned on it. Sort of that political way of not saying anything that might bite you in the end.
Johnny, old habits die hard.
Unc, so what are your thoughts on Ed?

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), April 14, 2000.

Maria,
Ed's true motives escape me. Only one person really knows the answer to that.
All I can say is that his actions; removing without comment failed predictions from his website as the trigger dates passed, dropping out of the debate before roll-over, and now running off and starting his highly censored board have evaporated any feelings of respect that I once had for him.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), April 14, 2000.

Ed knew in early 1999 that Y2K would not end up as he had predicted. That is why when he testified about Y2K in front of the panel in D.C. he didn't say anything.
Yep I mean exactly that. He did not warn them that there would be mass problems (as his forum was set up to discuss), he did not say things would not be bad at all either.
Now if he had believed things would be bad, he would have said so. He did not. But he also did not say things were looking good either.
Take a look at Ed Yourdon's essay Y2K And The Year of Living Dangerously on the 'On Yourdon' thread. He did say in March of 1999 that he was not predicting TEOTWAWKI, and he never had predicted that Y2k would be a '10', even in 1998. You're apparently faulting him for not saying that the only possible outcome for Y2k was a 'bump in the road.'
Based on the available information last year, there were many plausible outcomes for Y2k that fell somewhere between bump in the road and a collapse of society. Ample supplies of water, food and fuel for heating could have been hard to come by for awhile, even with electricity on where one lived.

-- (That's@my.opinion), April 14, 2000.

Big Fat Sally said:
"You are just mad cause the big kids took their toys and went to another playground and you can't go."
I know this snippet has been replied to several times, but it was directed at me initially, so it is my turn.
I was not banned; I may be now that I asked that question the other day at SLEZ board in an unrelated thread. I occassionally lurk there because I love to study cults, but I have no desire to be a regular there.
I do not hang out in places where everyone agrees. There is nothing to learn there. Yes, there are some dissenting voices over there-but the large majority stoke each others fires of government conpspiracies to poison us and take our guns away.
Big Fat-Your reading comprehension is off-you show no understanding of my original post. I am not one who is involved in these "timebomb trials" but I do understand why they are occuring, and it is endlessly fascinating.

-- FutureShock (gray@matter.think), April 14, 2000.

Interesting stats on accesses to my web site
greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

I switched to a new ISP back in July, and it has taken them months to fix a problem with their statistics-reporting package. First report finally showed up yesterday, and I took a quick look at some of the things it told me about the month of November.
To put things in perspective, I get about 3,000 visits a day to my web site -- certainly not in the league of Yahoo or Microsoft, and probably less than Gary North and various others.
In any case, one part of the report shows traffic by state. The most popular state accessing my site was Virginia, with 26.32% of the total. The next most popular state was California, with 4.19%, followed by Florida with 1.77% ...
Inquiring minds might ask: who on earth is in Virginia that cares so much about my web site? Could there be any government agencies located there? Could it be that folks in Washington are accessing my site via an ISP located in Virginia?
Hmmmm... I think I'll go back to reading the rest of the report....

-- Ed Yourdon (ed@yourdon.com), December 28, 1999
BTW, America Online(AOL) is in Virginia. If Eddie cannot figure out that one, why would one give much credence to anything the man shares? The paranoid conclusion by Eddie only confirms the man's motivation (his or his followers paranoia, is the only question). EY cannot even interpret his log files properly, any wonder he blew Y2k so badly?

-- Attack-Paulie (fannybubbles@usa.net), April 14, 2000.

Despite what maria says, I still consider Yourdon an intelligent man. He knows about AOL, and carefully didn't say he didn't. Nor did he assert that the government was accessing his site, he only observed that Virginia has a lot of government people, and speculated it might be them. Speculation is free.
Ed is an entrepreneur. He saw y2k as a marketing opportunity, and decided to cash in on it -- with his books, his consulting, and other ventures. The only thing he got wrong that I can see is that y2k fizzled far more than he expected, reducing his opportunities and making his softsell pitch more difficult. But this doesn't seem to be stopping him from very carefully misleading those he allows into his flock.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), April 14, 2000.

Flint,
Problem here is any decent traffic stat program gives one the URLs of those accessing one's website and specific pages for that matter. Remember, this Yourdon dude was supposedly some 35 year IT guru. Same guy who had no problem charging $$$$ on the lecture circuit as some expert(LOL). Fella who also sat in front of the United States Congress and said word-zero about software and Y2k, but decided to focus on preparation.
Dig and Yourdon is the mirror opposite of North. While North would advocate a return to Colonial days, Ed etal wants to build a Village-- -i.e. the old TB2000 mold where only the "select" are allowed to participate. Yourdon works since we are currently under this "Build a Village" political landscape(baby boomers). North types have been retreating ever since Reagan/Bush went bye-bye.

-- Attack-Paulie (fannybubbles@usa.net), April 14, 2000.

I switched to a new ISP back in July, and it has taken them months to fix a problem with their statistics-reporting package. First report finally showed up yesterday, and I took a quick look at some of the things it told me about the month of November. Ed Yourdon December 1999
This indicates an entrepeneur? Someone wanting to know sales success waits 4 months for his provider to provide website traffic numbers? Like North, Eddie doesn't get this web-thing yet. He does his own web-mastering still? correct? This supposedly "connected 35 IT guru" cannot even get someone to do 100 yellow webpages? Look at his Webprovider, I did, and can tell you Eddie is paying a "tad" over the going rate for webspace. Ed spends more than he should for space, and does his own webmastering, this indicates a shrewd businessman? not.
Do I have to mention the MLM deal?

-- Attack-Paulie (fannybubbles@usa.net), April 14, 2000.

Paulie,
I'm not a tech person. I'd like to understand your point of view. Can you break it down for us. We are not 'retards' but are unaccustomed to your parlance.
Please. I'm dead serious.

-- flora (***@__._), April 14, 2000.

Flora,
Ok, lets start with Ed Yourdon's website. To find out who is behind a website and where it(pages) resides(is served up), one goes to Network Solutions and uses the Whois search feature. Doing so for yourdon.com indicates Eddie uses a webhosting company(Siteserver.net)which is located in Simi Valley, California. Upon visiting siteserver.net one is presented with their basic webhosting plan details(including price)on their main page. Now I can tell you that I pay a mere 10 bucks more for 3-times the space and unlimited bandwidth. Yourdon is limited to 4,000mb per month bandwidth(traffic)and 50mb of server space for his pages(assuming he is on the basic plan, all plans at siteserver are of a similar price configuration model). My website, stand77.com(Debunkers) is hosted by Tierranet. Note: even at the same $25, Tierranet gives one twice the space and unlimited bandwidth. Tierra is part of Verio a major Provider in the US, Siteserver???
Now what does this indicate? To me it indicates someone who has done little if any shopping(research)when the decision was made as to hosting plans for one's website. Course I am not privy to any inside deals Yourdon may enjoy, but my hunch is he is like most and is a mere regular customer. I think this indicative of a man who makes decisions by placing one's finger to the wind. His many flip-flops on Y2k alone point to this habit of Eddie's. Ed is lazy and his record is reflective of as much. The guy then has the balls to think he can debate with others who actually know what in the hell they are talking about? What Eddie is good at is acting, playing to the peanut-gallery.
Ed also pays searchbutton.com(down as I write this, duh) to provide a search feature on his website. This ain't cheap and he could provide as much doing it himself with a simple CGI script. Course we all know Ed is no programmer and his buddy who actually is(Steve Heller) is far too busy trying to figure out where he went off the Y2k prognostication track. Ed has that free webboard to watch over at Sleazyboard.com remember, and is far too busy even for a 35 year experienced IT professional(his description, not mine).
Unfortunately Eddie's Multi-Level Marketing website has gone bye-bye...Readyfory2k.com. Jist was Eddie was the "expert" endorser for a video and other vital Y2k prep junk. One could sign-up and then sign-up others etcetcetcetc.
The best technical analysis on record(MHO)is Debugging the Y2k Story. If one wants to shift thru all the BS, this is your article.

-- Attack-Paulie (fannybubbles@usa.net), April 14, 2000.

Moderation questions? read the FAQ