A repost of the original RNA method

Advanced raising method for optimum results

1)THIS METHOD IS NOT FOR YOU IF: a) You are a beginner. b) You have less than $200,000. c) You want to get lots of money. d) You are impatient and do not like to "reload" countless times. e) You don't really care about super high stats and just want to play the game for fun.

2)THIS METHOD IS FOR YOU IF: a) You have played this game for awhile, opened up many breeds, and want really high stats. b) You want high enough stats to take out cpu monsters, ie, Bighand, Zilla King, Akirel, Hammed, White Mocchi, etc. c) You want a monster that will demolish your friend's monsters. d) You have over $200,000 and you don't care how much money you lose in the process. e) You don't mind "reloading" alot.

If you fall into category 1), then I suggest you try wildcard's method in the "how do you ppl do it...." thread from the "raising/training" category. His method is less money consuming and you get alot in the process. Its also very good for the beginner to adapt with. You'll also get high stats, but you won't have "optimized" stats. (Which is what I strive for)

If you fall into category 2), read on.

INTRO: This method has been used by me for several S class monsters. 14 to be exact. I constantly get monsters with total stats over 4000+ points. I told myself that I would not post this method unless I have perfected it(well, near perfected). Just recently, I raised a phoenix with total stats of 5183. I would like to share with you my complete method for optimum stat gaining.

THINGS TO NOTE BEFORE GOING ON:

For information about a monster's life stages, read the thread, "monsters life stages" in the raising/training category.

For information about techniques/chains, read the thread, "How to get ALL techniques/chains for your monster" and "attack chains continued" both from the "raising/training" category.

Certain monsters are not good with this method. Basically, any monster that does very poorly on stat increase in more than 2 stats or any monster that has a very low life span will not get very good results.

Examples of stat unfriendly monsters: Wracky, Pixie, metalner.

Examples of lifespan unfriendly monsters: Pixie, Chinois(Metalner/???), Happy mask(Gali/???), dragon, siren(undine/joker), joker.

Examples of very round monsters(They excel at almost everything/Ideal for use with this method): Phoenix, Gooji(zilla/tiger), Tiamat(zilla/pixie), Hound Knight(durahan/tiger).

However, monsters change with different subbreeds and different generations. But the ideal monster to use, is a monster with a high lifespan and one that is good in almost all stats. Therefore, 2nd generation monsters would be more ideal than 1st. ie, my techno dragon got less than 4000pts as a 1st gen. After combining, it started off with better stats and longer lifespan, and eventually got over 4000+ in its stats.

So if your monster is suffering from a lifespan problem, just use this method until they're old, then combine. If your monster is suffering from stat unfriendliness, combine it with a monster that excels in the stats that your current lacks in.

To get good combinations: What can I say, you just have to be lucky. If you truly want a monster to reach 5000+, then you gotta have either a good/great combo. The 2 monsters that you're combining should have pretty good stats with at least one stat maxxed. You should start off with 2 or more stats at 400+. just as reference, my phoenix started off at 1700 pts.

Once you have a good monster, you should be able to get 4000+ even in 1st gens. however, if you start off with a bad one, don't expect too much. Just make it do its best and combine it later.

Items needed: gemini pot(I have two), artemis statue, lump of ice, fire stone, dino tail, golden peach, silver peach. (others?)

You will never send your monster to expeditions.

Use no drugs.

Bad natured monsters will be more annoying as cheating will not be tolerated very much in this method.

Make sure your monster either likes tablets or doesn't mind them. If they like them(lucky for you), you may modify usage of mint leafs at your own expense. Reducing too many may result in stress. The method is designed for monsters who don't mind them.

Stress is a continuum(ex,0=no stress, 100=max stress). If your monster is not stressed at the beginning of the month, he may actually have 20, or 50 stress. Therefore, to keep stress level at a minimum, do not modify mint leaf usage.

Always check your monster's form.

You will not battle until you reach S class (for maximum benefits).

Now, on to my method...

****THE PROCEDURE:****

Format:

-------(period of time this should take place): (a,b,c,d) (e,f,g,h) (Comments if any)

Definitions: a=week1 training, b=week2 training, c=week3 training, d=week4 training. e=week1 item, f=week2 item, g=week3 item, h=week4 item. ML = mint leaf, NO = Nuts oil.

When something refers to "above," it means the thing preceding it.

*****STAGE 1 OF MONSTER'S LIFE*****

NOTES: 1)Failure/cheating in drills can be tolerated up to a maximum of 5 times within stage 1, if more, then reload. 2) use only smoked snakes to decrease spoilty and keep their form at normal with usage of candies and powders - replace any "none/candy" with item. 3) Change nature with sour/sweet jellies in place of "none/candy."

-------From 0yrs 0m -> 0yrs 4m: (shoot,shoot,shoot,rest) (none,ML,none,none)

COMMENTS: For the 1st 4 months, feed your monster milk. I train heavily on shoot because SKI is the hardest stat to raise (there is no hard drill for it). Training SKI will be a waste later on when you can do heavy training for 20+ pts instead of the measly 10+ pts. If your monster sucks at SKI(Too bad for you), just go for SPD or DEF.

-------From 0yrs 4m -> halfway through stage 1(until your training gets slightly better results): (shoot,shoot,shoot,shoot) Pattern: month1 -(candy,ML,NO,ML) month2 - (candy,NO,ML,ML) month3 - (NO,ML,ML,NO)

COMMENTS: Feed favourite food(no potatoes). circulate through the month pattern in order. If your monster is getting too fat, stop feeding candies for awhile.

-------From halfway through stage 1 -> stage 2: same as above.

*****STAGE2*****

NOTES: 1)Failure/cheating is NOT tolerated at all, reload if you get either one. 2)Decrease spoilty with smoked snakes in place of "none/candy." 3)If your monster has 400+ in SKI, it is doing ok, if 500+ -> good, if 700+ -> excellent, if 800+ -> expect a really good monster, if less than 400, not so great. 4) Change nature with sour/sweet jellies in place of "none/candy." 5) If your monster is around 1 year old, don't expect him to live long. If your monster is 2 years old, expect him to ling long. If your monster is 3+ years old, expect him to live VERY long.

-------From beginning of stage 2 -> half way through stage 2(until stat increase gets better): (HardDrill,HardDrill,HardDrill,rest) (candy,ML,NO,ML)

COMMENTS: Feed favourite food(no potatoes). every 3 months, feed a tablet to ensure stress is at minimal. some errantries should be done here - replace an entire month with errantry. Do not fail in any part of errantry. Make sure you start errantry at beginning of month. **IMPORTANT** - Feed tablet right after errantry do relieve stress down to tolerant level. - replace next month with: (rest, HardTrain,HardTrain,rest) (NO,candy,ML,ML). If errantry is done, wait 2 full months after last one to start another. If too fat, stop feeding candies for awhile. If your monster has not gotten a good enough SKI(for your standards), then keep training SKI with stage 1 method until desired to stop.

**IMPORTANT** Do not waste training!!! If you are training in INT and you know you're going to train in SPD later, do not train INT up to 999. If you want to train SPD later, you will waste valuable points from INT gaining. (Leap -> trains both INT and SPD). So, if you know your monster is awesome at INT, train your INT to 600+. If it's mediocre, train it to 800+. Same goes for every other stat. DON'T WASTE TRAINING!

Also, try to focus on your best Stat first as later on(stage 3), it will gain 20+ in hard drills but will only register as 20. ie, don't train on SPD when you only get 9's, instead, train on POW which gives you 15-18's.

Do not move on to another Stat until you're done with the current one.

-------From halfway through stage 2 - stage 3: same as above.

COMMENTS: Try to finish all errantries here(except B class errantries because you can't do them yet). follow above comments.

*****STAGE 3*****

NOTES: 1) Failure/cheating is not tolerated. 2) Loyalty should be at max. 3) Change nature with sour/sweet jellies in place of "none/candy." 4) If you have 2+ stats at 1400+, you're doing ok. If you have 3+ stats at 2100pts, you're doing excellent.

-------From beginning of stage 3 -> 1/4(quarter) way through stage 3(until stat gaining decreases a bit: (HardDrill,HardDrill,HardDrill,rest) (candy,ML,NO,ML)

COMMENTS: This is your "Prime" or peak. You will now get awesome stats for a period of time depending on how long your monster can live. Do no errantries here. Train in your mediocre/worst stat to get best results. If you really suck at a certain stat, ie, you get 10-11pts on a stat, forget it. That stat is not for you. Try another one. stop feeding candies if too fat. feed monster favorite food. every 3 months, feed a tablet.

-------From 1/4 of way through stage 3 -> 1/4 way through stage 3 (+ 12 months) **IMPORTANT** - Use Golden peach NOW: Same as above.

COMMENT: using a golden peach now takes advantage of an extended "prime." If your monster is getting really high stats, you may start acending the rank "ladder" by competing in IMA-FIMBA officials when they come along. When you compete in one, replace: (HardDrill,HardDrill,HardDrill,rest) (candy,ML,NO,ML) -> (HardDrill,HardDrill,rest,Fight) (candy,ML,ML,NO) next month: (HardDrill,HardDrill,HardDrill,rest) (NO,candy,ML,rest) then, go back to previous style. Follow above comment.

If you feel that your monster is not getting enough points from stat insreases, you may go on to the (FREEZING PROCESS) which is explained below.

From now on, the (+12) symbol will just mean that you used the gold peach.

-------From 1/4 of way through stage 3 (+12) -> 2/4 of way through stage 3 (+12): Same as above.

COMMENT: You should start battling in S class tourneys only. If you are too weak, you should try A class. If you are still too weak, you're doing this wrong. Get yourself up to S class as soon as possible if you haven't done so already. Food, bla bla bla... tablet bla bla bla... candy bla bla bla....

Everytime you battle in an S class tourney on the 2nd week, change (HardDrill,HardDrill,HardDrill,rest) (candy,ML,NO,ML) -> (HardDrill,fight,HardDrill,rest) (candy,NO,NO,ML), then, go back to previous style.

Everytime you battle in an S class tourney on the 4th week, change (HardDrill,HardDrill,HardDrill,rest) (candy,ML,NO,ML) -> (HardDrill,HardDrill,rest,Fight) (candy,ML,ML,NO) next month: (HardDrill,HardDrill,HardDrill,rest) (NO,candy,ML,rest) then, go back to previous style.

Aim for a certain few Stats that you want to raise from battle. If, after battling, those stats do not go up, reload and try again. (This is the most time consuming part of this method but it is crucial in getting high stats in what you want.) You can get 100 - 200 points in one stat and a few others if you really obey by this rule. Starting the battles earlier in stage 3 helps also, but only if your monster is not getting results that you want. Do this after your prime.

Use S class IMA-FIMBA officials to unlock chains if needed.

Do any remaining errantries as needed.

If you feel that your monster is not getting enough stat increases in drills, you may go on to the (FREEZING PROCESS) which is explained below.

-------From 2/4 of the way through stage 3 (+12) -> end of stage 3 (+12): *****FREEZING PROCESS*****

Right after fighting in an S class torney, use a nuts oil and rest the following week. Freeze it the next week. Go to the market and get a "dumby" monster and make him rest/train until another S class torney appears. unfreeze your other monster and battle. Continue until your monster is dead. **Save alot** After you die, you must reload and use your "Silver peach." Now, you can either fight 2 or 3 more battles, or freeze your supreme monster so that it can get peaches/fight errantry monster/whatever...

**IMPORTANT** if you want a long lived monster(low stats), don't even battle. no matter how much life you lose in battle, you'll still lose lifespan. You'll lose about 1-3 weeks of your remaining lifespan for each battle that you participate in. However, if you want a high stat monster, you're going to have to battle.

If you started the freezing process early enough, you may even be able to net yourself a couple hundred thousand $ while you're at it. If you started late, expect to barely make enough money to cover the expenses of your "super" monster.

****END OF PROCEDURE****

Excuse my grammar in some place as I am very tired from writing all this....

Well, some of the stuff in stage 3 is vague. When it say "if you feel.....," that means that it varies from person to person as what they want their stats to become before moving on. Just try not to fall behind. If you're way ahead, you're either doing it wrong, or you just got a kickass monster that will probably beat mine. Here's an example of my Phoenix, Firebane so you know what stats I think are suitable before going on. ORDER: LIF-POW-INT-SKI-SPD-DEF.

Beginning stage 1: 200-150-450-400-300-200. Beginning stage 2: 300-100-750-900-300-500. Beginning stage 3: 550-100-850-950-600-900. Beginning of freezing process: 650-300-999-950-800-900. End Stats: 814-373-999-999-999-999. As you can see, I gained quite a bit of life and speed in the freezing process. I did a mistake though, I overshot my "meditate" training. I ended up maxing out INT with the "Leap" training and had to stop or else I would waste training.

Here are some other of my monsters before Firebane:

Mobius(dragon/henger) 2nd gen: 652-965-304-967-688-976 TOT-4552

Phantasma(Undine/joker) 2nd gen: 471-047-999-999-999-753 TOT-4268

Cyber-Zero(Durahan/Metalner) 3rd gen: 901-999-161-999-328-999 TOT-4359

There are others but these are my best ones. Oh, and Caldera too, but he's already posted somewhere else.

I hope this method helps you in getting your high stats. it probably needs some editing. Anything that I left out will be added later. I hope someone else will have as much luck as I do monster breeding. I expect to see MORE of you breach the 5000+ barrier in your monsters. Remember to post them here if you do! (DON'T USE GAMESHARK! You're just fooling yourself)

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), December 13, 1999

Answers

Oops! mistake already. For my example with Firebane, it should be beginning stage 2: 250-150-600-900-300-300. Beginning stage 3: 500- 100-800-950-300-700. Yeah something like that. Geez, I can't really remember. I need some sleep.......

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), December 13, 1999.

Answers

Part 1 of the responses

When using this technique I had a lot of fun. Look at my Tecno Dragon above. Those are the highest stats i've every gotten. When he entered the D-Class official battle none even bothered to fight me. Even in the S-Class official a couple enemies didn't bother to fight me. I love dominating in matches and this is the way. I found noting bad with this technique. I like it a lot more than Wildcards(Nothing wrong with it though). Billy it's not cheating at all. There is no way to play this game without cheating. You save it don't you? Then your cheating. This method takes advantage of the fact that this is a GAME. You can save and reload, that's what I do with errantries and expeditions, now I just do it even more. And stop with biding comments about this excellent training method.

My Tecno Dragon has just entered the Freezing Process with the following stats.

Life-585

Power-966

Intelligence-518

Skill-614

Speed-701

Defense-728

Total-4112

He entered the Freezing Process at 5 years and 2 months. I couldn't get anywhere near these totals with Wildcards method. This one is plain and simple better (in my opinion).

-- Zack (belgrath16@aol.com), December 16, 1999.

Another possible disadvantage to this technique (believe me I've been just as willing to tear into the flaws of mine, especialy where it comes to lifespan concerns) is unlocking. If you aren't battling much until later in life, but you wish to concentrate your errantries in stage two, how do you get the requisite number of attacks to open up the more powerful atacks? Now admittedly this isn't much of a concern with pheonix, all you really need is fire stream which can be easily obtained at B class, and they don't have that many techs anyway. But how do tech intensive monsters with completist trainers fare? or those with a 45-50 guts sucky special attack that links to a much better 55 guts attack? Also I've found that even with excellent stats and full unlocking many techs just can't be learned until the monster gets to a certain class, it seems to me that it would be quite dificult to cram everything in to stage 2. Or am I missing something?

-- WildCard (rincewind@uswest.net), December 16, 1999.

With the unlocking techniques part you just use them in battle constantly and the number of time used is past down to the offspring. If I use bite a lot with my Tecno Dragon but don't get two bites, the offspring will start off with the chance to get it(thats if I used it enough). But you are right Wildcard, that is a little problem, but you can always go on errantries while in S-Class. I plan to to get some more techs so my offspring will start out with more.

-- Zack (belgrath16@aol.com), December 16, 1999.

Here's my two cents worth. Wildcard's method is better for 1st gen monsters and those who just like to play for fun. RNA's method works better for 2nd or 3rd gen monsters and player who want to raise the ultimate monster in stats. Actually, what I recommend is to look at both styles, take what works for you, and make your own customized style. If you're having fun w/ the style you're currently using, by all means stick with it. Remember, the point in this game is to have FUN. In the words of B Campbell in his strategy guide, "KNOWLEDGE IS POWER and TO EACH HIS OWN."

-- Dark Phoenix (Arax7@aol.com), December 16, 1999.

I'm about halfway through a year with RNA's method and to tell ayt he truth I hate it. It costs me a lot and I've gotten VERY little from it 9this is just my experiance). Using wildcards method (granted; there was a lot to learn on your own with it) I was able to get a steady income and gain fame, money and stats all in a fast period of time. I'm not sure what the max lifespan of a pheonix is, but mine is over 4 (i think) and starting to fall fast from its prime, so now its a freezy pop.

What I think RNAs method requires is a henger, or another monster with a heavy lifespan and tollerance for punishment. I tried it with a naga and had very poor results; stress was a constant and the monster kept little loyality. It may be because of the monster I chose, but I am not in favour of continuing with the stratagy.

I am currently raising a Mini-Pixie thing (Wracky/Pixie) to quite favourable results just slowly working and fighting on occasion. Its 4 months and already past 250 speed. This is my first qracky so I'm just "testing the waters" with it.

RNA, what monsters do you think would work best with your stratagy? Everyone uses a pheonix as their best, but hell; is it tough to make a good pheonix? Off a CD it'll have over 200 life and 210 power. Not to mention its insane stat gain. I'm talking about monsters like worms, galis, monols and others no one talks about much. What about a plant? It has a long life span and heavy tollerance for punishment.

Ohh... one thing to add; I've found that a species of monster doesn't have a fav. food. I had a pheonix off a disk love tablets and dispise just about evreything else. On the opposite side I had another one off a CD love potatos and just about any of the cheaper foods. I've had a colour pandora that ate meat as its fav and hated potatos. Just look at their likes and dislikes early on and see if you can find anything else like this.

-- Meh (aka_cp@hotmail.com), December 16, 1999.

When using this technique I had a lot of fun. Look at my Tecno Dragon above. Those are the highest stats i've every gotten. When he entered the D-Class official battle none even bothered to fight me. Even in the S-Class official a couple enemies didn't bother to fight me. I love dominating in matches and this is the way. _________________________

Then we have very different ideas of fun. You say you dominated in the matches, but you didn't even have a match. You said they forfeited, and you enjoyed that? You never even got to try out moves, see cool new techniques, anything. What's the point? I personally LOVE a challenging battle. When my Durahan took out Most it was the hardest battle I've had yet. I had good enough defence(and so did he) and good enough power(same for him) that we were doing about equal damage(with him hitting a little more often, but not too much) so I had to really think to beat him. Now I'll admit, I loaded twice(with good reason). The first time I was doing well and sitting in third range because I figured that was his least damaging range, and it was. But then he did Petal Vortex and regained 323 HP! :( The second time he did Mocchi Cannon and critical hit me with it right after the guy said fight...whatever. How incredibly weak can you get? Anyway, the point is I like a challenge, not dominating matches. I like to match up my intellect/strategy to the game's AI with approximately equal chances and see if I can win(although since the game's AI is so bad it's often not too hard). If I went through an entire monster's life with everyone forfeiting to me I think I'd put up the game and go back to FF8 :(

-- Billy Newlin (venom@usit.net), December 16, 1999.

Wildcard:

My reasons for using milk at a young age is because I do not have FIRM evidence that it does nothing in the first 4 months. Something inside of me tells me that the programmers must've done that for another reason besides making it a cheap source of food. Maybe in the jap version? Well, until I get evidence, I'll stick to the safe side.

My judgement on the win/loss record came from my observation of the people's monsters who used your method. I assumed, from looking at their stats, that they would have a hard time in S class. I overlooked the fact that those monsters rarely ever battle in S class so this should not apply. Our methods probably produce varied results according to the person using the method. (heh, I'm a fan of Street Fighter)

You are quite right with the unlocking. I can't seem to unlock more than 3 - 4 techs per monster with my method. This flaw however, can be remedied by obtaining a 1st gen monster and have it use your method until it has all the unlocked techs that it wants, then combine and use my method for the stats. However, you are missing something. I fight alot in S class ima officials because you get 7 chances to use your techs for each battle. It will probably take you 8 battles(at most) just to unlock a tech that takes 45 guts. ie, fire stream. Also, there is time(noted in the procedure) during S class to go to errantries again(after the prime). Since you're in S class, all class requirements should be eliminated.

Actually, I've tried your method before without even knowing it. Before knowing about this board, I used gamefaqs to help with breed unlocking. My first monster to kill the legends cup, was a 1st gen purebreed Durahan. Now that I look at your method, it seems similar to the one I used for my Durahan. I battled ALOT, almost everytime a tourney with decent money came along. I even used nut oils, mint leafs and I only fed him tablets. He lived to 5yrs 6m old and he made me 290700$. 220W 0L 171KO. I admit, that was a really fun experience. So all in all, I like your method alot and I know why alot of other people like it as well.

However, my ambitious nature began to submerge as I did not just want to raise any monster, I wanted to raise THE ultimate monster. My idea of fun changed from constant battling with the same opponents, to the overcoming of my previous monster. Everytime I bred a new monster, I would try to beat my previous. That is my idea of fun. However, I must delay that course for awhile until I've bred every single purebreed. Then, I will try again to overcome my phoenix.

Actually, my method gets in alot of battles if you start early enough in the prime. You'll even have a "challenge" if you start early enough. (as Billy would complain about)

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), December 17, 1999.

Billy:

Billy, what generation was your (golem/arrowhead). Every generation adds a year or two to your max lifespan you know. The reason you haven't heard of anything living that long is because you've never seen a monster who has done absolutely no battling before. Obviously, you haven't seen my work yet. Check out my experiment in "how do you ppl do it....." It verifies that you lose lifespan whether you lose life or not. You want more evidence? check out my case study above that experiment. You wan more evidence? Take Dark phoenix's(under "monster's life stages" in the raising/training category) 1st gen purebreed wracky for example. His got to stage 2 at 3yrs 10 m. Mine got to stage 2 at 3yrs 8m. His lived for 9yrs 3 m. mine lived for 10yrs 5m. The difference between the two? His has a record: 138W 2L 98KO. My wracky's record: 41W 0L 32KO. I could give you a million case studies but that would be a waste of time. Since you have NO evidence to back up your claims besides the fact that your golem lived for 6yrs 8m with all the battling, I suggest you just drop your allegations as you are not qualified to make a proper judgement of my facts. If you want to prove me wrong if I'm wrong or prove me right if I'm right, then I suggest you take the time to do some testing for yourself as I have done numerous hours to test these things out. Once you have firm evidence, then we can talk.

Specifics: I was just making a comparison. This comparison can be a good or bad thing depending on how you look at it. If you're someone who needs directions, use my method. If you're someone who wants to figure it out yourself after given the main facts, then use Wildcard's. My comparisons were never meant to insult anyone. They were just telling you the facts. As a matter of fact, I like Wildcard's method and I see no reason to insult it if I like it.

Reloading: actually, once there are 3 stars next to a drill, you have about a 50% chance of succeeding. Also, sometimes the reload function does not work because the cpu needs to be reset to acquire "truly" random results.

Cheating: You'd rather have people use gameshark to acquire these results? You want cheating? Take you for example, you reloaded 2 times with a battle against the white mocchi. If you truly go by your words, then you should have just accepted defeat and waited for the next legends cup. Having a "good" reason to reload because the cpu's random odds beat you(mocchi using attacks) is just the same as having to reload because the cpu's random odds beat you(fail in a drill). So you think too much reloading is too much cheating? how much is enough? who makes the standards? you? you reload once, you reload many times. You're still reloading , and hence, you're cheating(by what you say).

Coming up with the method: I am simply stating the way that I think. I've played enough video games to be able to see through the entire game and think how the programmers would think. Hell, I'm studying computer science in university right now, I'm gonna need to think like them someday anyways.

Quote from Billy: "the point is I like a challenge"

You like a challenge? Here's a challenge: Get these Stats LIF- 542, POW-123, INT-999, SKI-890, SPD-993, DEF-937, TOT-4484 with a 1st gen Phoenix right off a cd. And use Wildcard's method.

Quote from Billy: "I like to match up my intellect/strategy to the game's AI with approximately equal chances and see if I can win (although since the game's AI is so bad it's often not too hard). "

You want that? Then use my method and start the freezing process as soon as you hit your prime. There's your matchup. Your stats and your opponent's stats shouldn't be too far off (you'll probably even be weaker).

You know what really gets me about you billy? YOU DON'T BELONG HERE!!! Did you even read the two categories at the very top? You seem like a pure case of CATEGORY 1!!!

Quote from Billy: "That's alot of reloading, and in my opinion, a little too much cheating." ________ well that's a pure case D) for ya!

Quote from Billy: "I gotta say, your technique sounds really long, and really boring" _________ well that's a pure case D) again! (impatient)

Why do you even think I've got those up there? To make this method look nice and pretty? NO! they're there to prevent people like YOU who will come here and criticize my work every chance they get, and without even using it first!

********************IMPORTANT****************************

I also do not agree with Wildcard when he says that everyone should give this method a try. You better NOT be in category 1 if you want to try this method. Cause if you are in category 1 and you complain to me about it, I'm just gonna burn you for it.

*********************************************************

Simply put, take your complaints elsewhere, Billy, because you're not even supposed to be here in the first place.

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), December 17, 1999.

aka cp:

Well, its good to hear that you at least tried it, unlike somebody. However, you seem to mildly fit into case d) (category 1/top of page) as well as I constantly hear you saying that its too boring. A little bit of case C) too. You also have not finished my method yet so you don't know the real results. A truly patient person, would go through this method completely and make a judgement after he/she has finished.

Slow way to beat the M4: Yes it is a slow way to beat the M4. But you know what? That was never its purpose in the first place. The purpose of this method is to get extrememly high stats often seen using gamesharks. Beating the M4 is just a side effect.

Concise: I can't make it concise because it is much too delicate to be generalized. Sorry about that. Besides, impatient people who don't have the patience to go through all this shouldn't even be here in the first place.

Quote from ak cp: "Wildcards is fast, easy, and kills monsters faster than opium."

RNA's way is slow, difficult, precise, and kills S class monster faster than speed. That's why I don't recommend beginners.

What monsters work best with this method: Well, seeing as the purpose of this method is to raise high stats, then I think a well rounded monster(see definition in method/under "notes to consider before going on"). Also, check out the thread "Breed Information requested-- Prime stats" under the "best monster to use" category for information of certain monster that would be good as a well rounded monster. Actually, worms work really well. Galis are really good but they have a short lifespan so you'll have to do it in its 2nd gen. Basically any monster mix that is good at everything. Example: Durahan -good POW,DEF -sucky SPD. Tiger -good SPD. Mix them together and you have just cancelled out Durahan's weakness.

Likes/dislikes: even if it doesn't say so in the monster's data, it still has likes and dislikes. In order to find out what foods your monster likes, just feed him something different and see his reaction.

Phoenix: It should hit its prime almost exactly at 4 years(1st gen). If you've done this method right, then you should have around 4500 total pts. by the end of the method.

P.S: I suggest you do not use this method if you don't want high stats because that's what this method is designed for.

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), December 17, 1999.

Dark Phoenix has the right idea. I do not expect you to follow this method forever. Just use it once and get an idea of how intense it's gonna need to be if you want those stats. Once you're done, keep using it if you like it. Make your own or use your previous if you don't.

*****************************IMPORTANT***************************** *** ******

THE PURPOSE OF THIS METHOD IS TO GET THE HIGHEST STATS POSSIBLE FOR YOU CURRENT MONSTER. EVERYTHING ELSE IS JUST A SIDE-EFFECT.

-to do so, many things must be compromised.

-do not complain unless you think you did not get the results (STATS) that you should have gotten with another method.

******************************************************************* *** ******

MY OPINIONS ON MY METHOD: I think my method is very ambitious in its attempt to get the ultimate monster. However, I do not think it is intense enough. There are still possibilities to consider. ie, magic bananas, absolutely NO resting(which I have not found a method for...yet). I knew that this method would not suit everyone so I put the categorical statements at the top. However, I do think it is very effective nonetheless.

MY OPINIONS ON WILDCARD'S METHOD: I give his method an A+. Not only is it suitable for beginners, it is also suitable for the average player and the expert player. I must admit that I have used the method (well, a similar form of it) and I like it quite a bit. It has quite the fun factor and is evident from all the remarks of others who have tried it. I started my monster ranching days with a similar method and I think everyone should try it first, before trying mine.

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), December 17, 1999.

I hesitate to say this as we both seem to have a certain amount of admiration for each other, but I think you were a bit harsh with these two. The attitude that anyone who doesn't like your method isn't the type of person that you wrote it for is kind of like a pre-emptive strike, making it hard to get feedback. You obviously put a ton of work into this, and I can understand your sensitivity, but it is a game, and these are peoples opinions (people have said things a lot worse about my regimen, but hey whatever works for them). On the one hand you insist not everyone should try it, and on the other you are upset when someone decides they don't like it half way through and didn't finish it. I have an enourmous amount of respect for your contributions, I just think you need to step back and put things into perspective, I don't think anyone really set out to offend you personaly. (If I'm wrong, believe me I'll hold 'em down for you next time you want to give them a good spanking ;) )

-- WildCard (rincewind@uswest.net), December 17, 1999.

*************POSSIBLE MISUNDERSTANDING*******************

"You'll lose about 1-3 weeks of your remaining lifespan for each battle that you participate in."

Replace "Battle" with "tourney."

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), December 17, 1999.

Part 2 of the responses(its too big to repost all at once)

Well, I finished w/ my mocchi. Here's the final results: LIF 590 POW 522 INT 865 SKI 926 SPD 912 DEF 571 TOTAL: 4387 Record: 83W 0L 66KO Purse: 212500G Age: 7 yrs. 1 mo. Status: Retired.

Here's jow he compared to my previous champs:

Mr.MaGOO Gaboo(Gaboo/Gaboo) 1st gen: 3309

Celacor Zilla(Zilla/Zilla) 2nd gen: 3597

Charles: Wracky(Wracky/Wracky) 1st gen: 3238

Harvey: Mocchi(Mocchi/Mocchi) 1st gen: 4387(!!)

Did I mention Harvey's an M4 and Legend cup winner as well?

-- Dark Phoenix (Arax7@aol.com), December 17, 1999.

I don't like either of your methods. No offense. It takes all the fun out of the game for me to spend 20 minutes on each month of life, buying items, giving x item at 'b' time, fighting x battle for y,z,q stats, priming at blah blah and peaching at yakkity shmack. It's hard enough sometimes for me to remember where I am in my all-natural breeding method. But then, I haven't beaten Legends yet. Go fig. Someday I will, but I'm not impatient.

(Heh, and though I don't like the methods, I have hard copy of both sitting by the playstation, against the day when I'll try them, because they both seem to be very sound methods for min/maxing the system).

Anyway, a small thank you to both of you for taking the time to share your methods.

-- Lao (darklao@hotmail.com), December 17, 1999.

Yes, maybe I was a bit harsh. However, I was simply trying to get the point across to others that you simply shouldn't use this method if you did not fit the description above. I kinda knew something like this was gonna happen so I used the 2 categories above to help people decide whether to use this. Since this is pretty freakin' long, I wouldn't want people to use this if they didn't need to. It just gets to me, that after all that, they still seem be able to find their way in here.

If I had a another chance, i'd go back and make it more specific. But then again, they'll still probably come criticizing me even though they don't fit the right description.

Its kinda like this message board huh? B tells everyone to check the archives but you still got those people asking the same questions over and over again. I guess its just human nature...... gotta deal with it.

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), December 17, 1999.

If ya don't like it, don't use it! Nuff said.

-- Dark Phoenix (Arax7@aol.com), December 17, 1999.

Oh, by the way RNA. You CAN'T pass the 6000 point mark. Theoretically the highest stat total any monster can get is 5994 ( 999 in each stat * 6 stats).

-- Dark Phoenix (Arax7@aol.com), December 17, 1999.

Yeah, I get your frustration. But it's like when I tell people that if you want silver peaches you'll have to make some compromises using my system, if people want to bitch about it I'll let 'em, I already said my piece. Even in your last post you said "criticizing ME", that's all I'm saying, it's the system their criticizing, not you. You've criticized mine to some extent, and most of your points are valid, yet I don't see it as an attack. Hell, more power to lao who doesn't use either, we both posted to help people achieve their goals, not tell them what their goals are or should be:)

-- WildCard (rincewind@uswest.net), December 17, 1999.

Calm down man, I wasn't complaining nor was I insulting your method. Obviously your method is quite good at what it's supposed to do, get the ultimate stats. And obviously you've put ALOT of thought into this. And nowhere in my post did I EVER say it was a bad method. I was mearly stating my opinions. The reason why I DIDN'T try it is because(like you said) YOU told me NOT to and I agree. I agree absolutely that I fit into category one. But you were comparing the two techniques(Wildcard's and yours) as if they were trying to do the same thing, but they're not. So I was mearly stating that Wildcard's technique is more enjoyable TO ME. If I wanted to try to get stats such as your phoenix I'd definitely try something else but currently I'm interested in taking down the Legends Cup(more specifically Most) with one of each race(just the main, not every subtype). Wildcard's technique is for opening moves, gaining cash, and hopefully reaching and beating the legend cup. Your technique is for making good breeder fodder, and trying to see just how high you can get the stats to go. Those are two different things. But in your comparisons you compared such things as total amount of stats, lifespan, etc. when that's not what Wildcard's technique is for. As for not belonging here, after the 20 million newbie posts a day I would think you, myself, and everyone else would enjoy having a nice discussion about strategy, raising, technique, etc. without resorting to name-calling or telling someone to shut up. Since I was wrong, forget I ever replied. It won't happen again.

-- Billy Newlin (venom@usit.net), December 17, 1999.

Billy:

While in the D-Class tourney I thought it was funny that no one wanted to fight me. But in the higher classes I began to kick some a$$ against opponents like Prometheus and those guys. Heck I just became a Master Breeder using this method. The next step is the Legends Cup and Most. That should prove a challenge (Which I like as well). Im trying to get 2 bites now and I must say, Loveless is pretty hard to beat only using bite but I did it. He was my hardest opponent so far.

Next im going to use Wildcards method with my first gen monsters so I can get as many attacks as possible for my Siren. Of course I will make some changes here and there in both techniques.

Question for RNA: Do you have any evidence that being skinny is bad in any way?Just wonderin.

-- Zack (belgrath16@aol.com), December 17, 1999.

Billy, as you can see, I don't take criticisms very well. I guess you weren't attacking me personally, but it sure seemed like it. I'll take Wildcard's advice and step back. I guess no work can be done without criticism, even Wildcard's. Sorry for being so harsh (strict?/spartan?) on you, don't take it too hard.

I guess what started this, was when I compared wildcard's system and mine. Maybe I should have just compared the purposes of the two procedures. Then, there would be no misunderstandings.

The thing that probably ticked me off the most and got me to start bashing you, was when you doubted my facts on the effects of battling. But then, I realized that it had said "battle" and not "tourney." I can see why you had your doubts. Heh, sorry, my bad.

And with all those newbie questions, I guess it is nice to see a thread that we can talk about raising and stuff. You're right about that.

By the way, is it just me or does anyone else notice that this thread is taking an awfully long time to load? I think we successfully made the longest conversation on the board.

Oh yeah, since we're talking about breeding fodder, maybe we should take a closer look at azn beast's method. He got a Kato over 5000. It's probably a pretty good method if it can do that.

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), December 17, 1999.

Skinny? Good question....... No, I don't have evidence. But I just have this feeling that the programmers put that in the game for some reason other than to give your monster a personality. I don't remember who, but someone had a theory on fat vs. skinny. Fat would increase fatigue and skinny would increase stress. I haven't noticed that whenever I get skinny or fat. But then again, I never tested it out thoroughly. There's so much ambiguity in this game! Why can't Tecmo just make an english page that tells you all you need about this stuff?

I keep my monsters at normal just because of that feeling. I guess you don't really have to feed them candies. It'll cost you less and you can tell us what differences you noticed at the same time.

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), December 17, 1999.

I'm check Tecmo's site from time to time. I'm not getting the "under construction" message anymore but the English page is still quite unfinished:(

-- Dark Phoenix (Arax7@aol.com), December 17, 1999.

One thing I did differently was that I fed my Mocchi tablets from cradle to grave (ur, freezer). Based on my findings, I agree with Fade assumption about milk. Even if your monsters are neutral or even dislike tablets, they still have very good effects.

-- Dark Phoenix (Arax7@aol.com), December 17, 1999.

I don't care much about the arguing., but threads like this one and Lao's monster poetry threads are a delightful change of pace from all the newbie questions.

-- Dark Phoenix (Arax7@aol.com), December 17, 1999.

The question about the skinny was because I was going to just get rid of the candies all together. I raise a lot of monsters and they all turn out skinny. It just happens and I really havn't had that many life problems. I was going to switch candies with nuts oil. I'll tell you how that goes sometime in the near future.

-- Zack (belgrath16@aol.com), December 17, 1999.

I can understand RNA's anger; most of these people haven't tried the system (I doubt they've read it even !) and they are trying to pick it apart.

I don't mind RNA defending his system in the least, hell; many people have said much worse in much less time. Well, that settles the whole argument I hope.

Now about my thoughts on both systems... I have gone to about 4 years with a pure naga using RNAs method. Well, its aggrivating and i have to look back every few seconds but it DOES work out very well. I'd advise this to a breeder who THINKS they are an expert, because it'll smash all your old views on a monsters ability. Sure; any breeder can be great with a single species, but this method works for a wide spectrum of monsters all with different prime stats. I think THAT is the proof of its usefullness. I'd advise RNA's breeder style to those who are looking to better themselves, and have a LOT of money to spend (heh, a lot of time too!). in short, it is a difficult and extensive way to raise a monster that will shatter old expectations of what one species is abl to do compared to another.

Now to Mr. Wildcards breeding style... Well, I take it a majority of you tried it already; so I'll speak as if you know completely how it works. With this method you'll gain stats fast and your money will fly (even with the nuts oil a day habbit your monsters will devlop). I've tried this with many monsters, I've made ATLEAST 120K of PROFIT off each monster I've done it with. This is money I gained after food and other bills. Completely free cash, mostly item resale. He says you'll max 2, I was able to get up to the high 700s in 2 and high 600's-500's in the rest, only low defense of 388. This was with a pure pheonix, so its a bit of a "doctored" outcome. I say this because of the natural ability of the mentioned breed. Its just the best; no argument. Well, back to the breeding. Wildcard's breeding style has one major flaw; your monsters will live short lives and fall many times faster than a regular monster. You'll go from 10-15 for a stat to like 6-9. This i found out first hand, too little to late. My pheonix DID beat one of the M4 with relative ease. He was about 4(?) when he fought it; did a damn good job. One of the greatest advantages this has over RNA's style is that you learn to fight with your monster, learn what attacks are best against what. You have a lot of battle time and you'll learn about your monsters best attacks (and worst) extremely on. With this knowlage I beat the S class tourny without the use of drugs and without losing (I acually KO'd or beat by % all monsters). I hoped to do the same in the M4, but I had to use some Kassietan to take out drewguard and that plant monster. They were just too strong *sniff*.

I don't want to offend anyone, but if I had to chose a stratagy for a NEWBIE; I'd go with wildcards. His stratagy has a lot of le-way to learn and change. Its also easy to follow.

Now, if I had to suggest something to a person who has played for a long time and is just looking for a little something to kickstart his playing; I'd definity advise to follow RNA's breeding. It takes a lot of ability to do right, and a lot of time to use. Hell; if I wassn't working I'd be able to raise a monster past 4 in less than a week and a half *laugh*.

-- Fugazi (aka_cp@hotmail.com), December 17, 1999.

If a player is relatively new to game, it's best to go with Wildcard's style. Seasoned players might want to give this method a try. It's not for everybody, but it will give an idea just how tough a player's monster can become in the hands of a determined expert trainer. The only (CPU) monsters that can give my Mocchi a real challenge now are the likes of Most, Akirel, etc.

-- Dark Phoenix (Arax7@aol.com), December 17, 1999.

I can't remember the last time I actually had to think in a battle. Using this method really makes it easy on the battling. But then again, alot of video games get to the stage where you can cruise through it without much thinking. I guess I'm at that point again.

Well, there's always 2 player mode...

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), December 18, 1999.

Okay, with regard to stage 2 and 3, I've been trying to make a training pattern so that you don't need to rest at all.

My results: Not good.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to make a pattern like this: (HardTrain,HardTrain,HardTrain,HardTrain) (item,item,item,item). Stress accumulates way too quicky to control. I even eliminated candies and used only tablets.

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), December 18, 1999.

Would (HardTrain,HardTrain,HardTrain,SoftTrain) (NutsOil,MintLeaf,NotsOil,MintLeaf) work?. I have yet to try that out but I will soon.

-- Zack (belgrath16@aol.com), December 18, 1999.

My final stats for my Tecno Dragon are:

Life-675

Power-999

Intelligence-552

Skill-687

Speed-761

Defense-802

Total-4476

Oh Hell yeah! He is now 6 years and 1 month old. In the Hall Of Fame. Has 10 attacks. After he defeated Most I sent him on some more Errantries to get more attacks. All I need now is a good combination with something else. I only used a Golden Peach BTW.

-- Zack (belgrath16@aol.com), December 18, 1999.

Try that and see what happens. Make sure you do it for at least 6 months straight so you know that stress doesn't accumulate. I'll try it with my next angel(pixie/gali) as well. Remember to feed it tablets every month.

That might work.

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), December 19, 1999.

Zack, what drug is your dragon on??? I didn't know that 1st gen techno dragons could do so well. Although, I never did try one out with my method... Technically, a dragon has better stat accumulation than a phoenix, but they also have a shorter lifespan. I'd like to see what it looks like after its second generation.

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), December 19, 1999.

I'm just starting a monster with a load of potential. Starwolf, descendant of my champion Mocchi has some pretty good starting stats. LIF ~110 POW ~110 INT ~350 SKI ~400 SPD ~375 DEF ~100. Would have been better but one of the parents couln't quite max out (short lifespan) but this seems to have a pretty good head start. BTW, he's a 2nd gen Tiger.

-- Dark Phoenix (Arax7@aol.com), December 19, 1999.

I was testiong out how to work all month and there is no way without getting stressed out to heavy train for 3 weeks then a light train. I did find a way to do 2 heavy work and 2 light work.

(HardTrain)(LightTrain)(HardTrain)(LightTrain) (Nuts Oil) (Mint Leaf) (Nuts Oil) (Mint Leaf)

I have been working on this method for different monsters. Ducken, Tricker, and a Chariot. It works out pretty well and feeding only tablets (None of them liked it, none disliked it) Colt never told me they were stressed out. Now I am going to test out how to get a good or great combination. I have a Tricker with Speed as his highest stat and skill and intelligence on one level lower. I am going to train an Undine to the same level stats and figure out the good/great combination. That will be on a different thread of course.

-- Zack (belgrath16@aol.com), December 19, 1999.

Zack, we have different results. For me, the pattern worked. I used this training pattern for 8 months straight:

(HardTrain,HardTrain,HardTrain,LightTrain) (NO,ML,NO,ML).

No stress accumulation. Well, there could be some but it's too slow to take notice of. For safety, I rested on the 4th month, 4th week of the pattern. I would also rest at this time if I wanted to do an errantry the next week. I fed tablets every month and I quickly became skinny. I also did this in the 2nd stage/3rd stage. Since our patterns are the same, maybe it was because you did something wrong? maybe you did this in the 1st stage? forgot to feed tablets? lost track in the pattern?

There's one other thing to note: I have 2 gemini pots and 1 ocean stone. It hasn't been proven whether the ocean stone does anything but I think having 2 gemini pots may have helped.

Dark phoenix, update us on your monster when you're done. I'm not sure how well rounded it is, but it seems like its going to be good.

I started my 3rd gen angel with stats: 60-100-430-450-370-120 approx. However, she sucks at DEF and LIF so I don't have much to train in. I've started the freezing process way early into her prime. I probably won't get past 5000 cause she's not well rounded enough. It'll be hard just getting to 4000. I hate it when monsters are crappy at DEF.

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), December 20, 1999.

Perhaps certain monsters were not MEANT to have ultra high stats totals. I've noticed that many stat unfriendly monsters tend to have other benefits which can't be expressed in numbers. Such as, Guts regen, move selection, lifespan etc. BTW, my super Mocchi wiped the floor up w/ my previous champs, except one. My wracky can actually beat him about half the time even though his stat point total is about 1100 pts less than my Mocchi's.

-- Dark Phoenix (Arax7@aol.com), December 20, 1999.

I'll have to try out the Hard hard hard light thing again.I guess I messed up somewhere in there. I was just kind of wondering how you get your monsters to fight each other?

-- Zack (belgrath16@aol.com), December 20, 1999.

Freeze your monsters, exit the game and go into 1P vs. 2P. mode. Then you can pit your monsters against other frozen monsters in your saved games. That simple.

-- Dark Phoenix (Arax7@aol.com), December 20, 1999.

It would be quite interesting to see whether more gemini pots could result in a more difficult training pattern. I wonder how many gemini pots it would take to do this pattern: (HardTrain, HardTrain, HardTrain, HardTrain) (Item,Item,Item,Item).

It hasn't even been proven whether more gemini pots make a different but it says so in the item list. Maybe now's a good time to prove it... I'll probably try it for my next monster. I'm gonna have to make my "dumby" monster fight for gemini pots though.

Monsters that are not well rounded usually are complimented by other things. However, there is always a way to manipulate your monster (through combining) so that you get the well roundedness AND the extra guts regen, moves, lifespan, etc. Example: granity (pixie/golem), good at all stats, good at guts regen, good moves, etc. Other monster breeds don't get this luxury as much. Example: undine - only three breeds to choose from, none of which are good at POW.

I wonder what the best monster REALLY is. I doubt the programmers had the time to equally BALANCE out every monster. The best monster would have to be well rounded, needs a pretty good lifespan, has awesome moves, and good guts regeneration.

So far, I think undines are THE best monsters but I have yet to try others. Example: mew has a move that does A Damage and A hit. It also has good guts regen. Don't know about the lifespan though...

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), December 21, 1999.

I just started doing the hard hard hard light drills with my Siren and it was actually working. at 3 years and 8 months

Life-154

Power-18

Intelligence-761

Skill-800

Speed-802 (Hard to get up their, only got +14 in leap during prime)

Defense-71

Not bad, i'll combine it with my Undine since it is a great combo after all.You do that RNA with the whole Gemini Pots thing. Im to lazy to do that. Is their a stronger version of Ice Sword? I know their is of Aqua Wave...

-- Zack (belgrath16@aol.com), December 21, 1999.

Hmmm.... strange that the pattern worked for you. Any idea of what you did wrong?

As I recall from a previous thread, I think "ice swords" does have a stronger version called "ice swords?" I wouldn't bother with it because undines are never good at POW.

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), December 22, 1999.

I unlocked 6 techs with my (pixie/gali). It started from scratch because I used the other monster 1st in the combining process to get better starting stats.

The only ones I didn't get, were: heel raid(don't know what it unlocks from) and gigaflame(didn't fel like turning bad).

Ha! My method's not too bad at tech aquisition!

Well, its not like anyone will ever get down here to read this so nobody will know anyways. They probably won't know about the improved pattern for training either. Oh well, their loss.

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), December 22, 1999.

Im still reading all the way down here RNA. I am now raising my Undine, I want a great second gen monster with a good life span. It's annoying though, the Undine and Siren both like potatoes and dislike tablets (I think, they make a little sigh sound...It's not listed in the box) and they both turned to stage 2 at 10 months! My Tecno Dragon changed at 1 year and 7 months, stupid Undines...But hey, they are tech gatherers. My Siren has 12 or so attacks and my Undine is getting up there. I just made a Hound Tiger and am going to breed it sometime, then im going to combine it with my Metal Glory and hopefully it will be a Good/Great combo. Keyword HOPEFULLY. But first I have to raise my Undine. Good work with the whole +1 box thing, some people still think it makes it easier to get locked techniques, I don't but just maybe, test that out as well as the Gemini Pots. Keep up the good work.

-- Zack (belgrath16@aol.com), December 22, 1999.

Zack, how long does it take you to refresh this page? It takes me quite a long time even though I use cable modem. I'm wonder how long it would take to load this if I only had a dial up modem...

Well, at least there's nothing wrong with your undines. Both my 1st gen and my 2nd gen got to stage 2 at around 10 months each. I look back now and wonder how I got my siren to what she is now. It doesn't seem possible to get a monster past 4000 when it has such a short lifespan.

Ha, the (+1) thing. It was so easy to prove but it was so insignificant(to me). I was just getting kinda bored of all those (+1) questions popping up. I think there are about 8 - 10 questions about (+1) on this board. It didn't even take that long, maybe 1 hour. Well, someone's gotta do it.

Still working on the gemini pots. I'm kinda rusty when it comes to E (D?) class battles.

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), December 23, 1999.

Late at night it takes about 10 seconds, otherwise its about 3 seconds with my 56k modem.

My Siren lasted for a good 5 years even though I went on about 10 errantries and 5 tourneys. It died a week after its 5 birthday so I reloaded on its birthday and started raising my Undine.

I looked at the new answers section and I kept seeing questions about +1, I looked in each one and there was your name telling them to look for your thread. I thought that was kind of funny.

You get the Gemini Pot in a D-Class tourney. Thats about all I know.

-- Zack (belgrath16@aol.com), December 23, 1999.

Food for thought.... What about using Magic Bananas? The one week of lifespan gained for the loyalty DROP result can make up for lost time spent resting. Need to reset alot though. And what about the effect of drugs like Troron and Paradoxine? Depending on what benefits they give, they might be worth the lifespan hit. How much lifespan DOES troron knock off?

-- Dark Phoenix (Arax7@aol.com), December 23, 1999.

Man, this is the longest message I ever saw.

-- Aaron Guest (flashrun@altavista.net), December 23, 1999.

It really is isn't Aaron Guest.

That would be interesting to learn. About the drugs.

-- Zack (belgrath16@aol.com), December 23, 1999.

Check out "gemini pots - the more, the merrier" in the "items" category. I started getting some results. Apparently, more gemini pots mean less stress. However, I still need to figure out how many I'm gonna need to make it effective in my method.

If I get this gemini pot thing to work, there's not gonna be any room for magic bananas, Dark phoenix. And also, expect to be able to pass 5000+ really easily once the gemini pots are fully integrated into your raising methods.

However, I like your idea on the use of troron/paradoxine. Has anyone actually figured out what they really do? People say that it increases training results, but its not detailed enough. How long does it last for? how much better are the results? Someone's gonna have to test this stuff out. I'm busy with the gemini pots so I can't do it.

Zack, you though that was funny? I thought it was funny that there were so many threads that had a +1 in it! By the way, did you raise your siren with wildcard's method? I raised my first siren with my method and it only lived for 5yrs 1m. (I was still working on my method at the time)

Yeah, this is quite a long thread. There may be 70+ messages in here.

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), December 24, 1999.

Part 3

With my Siren I din't really raise it to any method in particular. I trained skill when young and used a lot of light drills(I didn't want to reload a lot) and battled so I could get some tech chains. It worked out okay, I got 3 stats over 800(Skill,Int.) one in the 900's (Speed).

I will try out those drugs(I sound like a thug...)to see what happens with my Hound Knight. I was looking at some threads about the drugs and B Campbell experimented with drugs(that doesn't sound right...) and he said that for his Durahan the stat gains went from 3 to 9. It might have just catapulted him to the 2nd or 3rd stage... But I'll test that out.

Good work on the Gemini Pots, im gonna have to get some more...Oh well it'll be worth it(hopefully).

-- Zack (belgrath16@aol.com), December 24, 1999.

I just realized that I have to raise a Metal Glory, Undine and a Hound Knight. I really got to stop replying with me saying "I'll raise a ________ to see that". Stupid lousy me and my big mouth.

-- Zack (belgrath16@aol.com), December 24, 1999.

Farmer Jimbo tested out Troron and Paradoxine so now I don't have to. Chack out his info.

-- Zack (belgrath16@aol.com), December 24, 1999.

After all that raising with my Undine, it turns out the combo that was "great" is now "fine". All that work for a crappy combo, it would have been better had I not even raised the damn Undine. That makes me pretty damn mad! Stupid lousy combination requirements.

-- Zack (belgrath16@aol.com), December 24, 1999.

After combining my Undine and Sirin I got a Siren with total stats = 867. Whoopdidoo. Stupid lousy combining......

-- Zack (belgrath16@aol.com), December 24, 1999.

If my tiger passes the 5000 mark I'll post his stats here.

-- Dark Phoenix (Arax7@aol.com), December 25, 1999.

A new factor to enter into your equation RNA. Multiple Artemis Statues DO have a positive effect on fatigue. Just recently I've tried an experiment with a newborn Zuum. This is what I've found out.

Hold for effect items so far: 3 Gemini Pots, 3 Dino Tails, 1 Sculpture, 1 Lump of Ice, 1 Fire Stone.

I took the newborn Zuum and worked it in light drills only until I got the "seems tired" message and noted the number of drill I've performed before I got the message.

1 Sculpture - 4 light drills to "seems tired"

Now I win a Sculpture from a tournament and went to the market to get another newborn Zuum. The result?

2 Sculptures - 5 light drills to "seems tired"

Notice the difference? I did and BTW, I made sure there were no Great or Cheat results as these would affect the results.

Another weapon in the arsenal of the Master Rancher. Check it out!

-- Dark Phoenix (Arax7@aol.com), December 25, 1999.

I might try another lengthier experiment with Dino Tails. I might have an idea of what they do...

-- Dark Phoenix (Arax7@aol.com), December 25, 1999.

Zack, don't worry about your siren. My 2nd gen started off pretty bad too. I think it only had 2 attributes at 250+ and the others pretty crappy. You wanna hear a crappier combo? I have a Jill and a Chinois (Metalner/???) that have a "good" combo. There's only two possible monsters that can come out(4 if you count order of choosing). NONE of the 4 were any good! They all had pretty much normal stats and none of them had a stat over 300. Now that's one lousy "good" combo if you ask me. It's probably my chinois' fault. It only has one stat at 999.

Dark phoenix, I'd like to hear more on the artemis statues. I wonder how many it would take to get rid of a Nuts oil in (HardTrain,HardTrain,HardTrain,HardTrain) (NO,ML,NO,ML). Then we'd be left with item usage: (ML,ML,NO,ML).

What do dino tails do anyways? Also, are hero/heel badges worth the space? I'm running out of room for items. I'm wondering if I should get rid of those. I even got rid of my lump of ice.

Merry christmas, people. Won't have much time for monster rancher these next couple of days. Gotta do christmas stuff.

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), December 25, 1999.

What the heck happened?? When I got more Artemis Statues there was no increase in the number of drills needed to get tired, it remained at 5 drills. Then what happened? The number of drills needed to get tired was reduced back to 4 drills! However, at the same time I also got more Gemini Pots. I suspect there might be a tradeoff in the reduction of stress. Increased Fatigue.

I'm also curious of what Dino Tails actually do. To be a prize in such a high level tournament, it must be quite a prize even though it only sells for 250G. I'll do more experiments with the Dino Tails. I'll have to use the GS to test this (Getting the Dino Tails normally takes too long).

-- Dark Phoenix (Arax7@aol.com), December 25, 1999.

What do Dino Tails do? I would kind of like to know.

I started raising my Metal Glory to Azn-Beasts method. I stopped after 2 years because I couldn't stand wasting so much time resting. Especially in the infancy, your suppossed to light,light,rest. I couldn't do that, it was going against my conscience. I can't stand the method and I don't know how he suppossedly got his Ninja Kato's to live close to 9 years, with all the battling and stress acumulation (he says to battle about every other month) and not to mention how he got 3 stats maxed doing heavy,light,light for that long. But thats just my experiance.

-- Zack (belgrath16@aol.com), December 25, 1999.

It would be much easier to test all this stuff out with a GS. I actually have to go around each year to get another gemini pot.

On B's item list, it says that dino tails decrease fatigue and increases defense in battle. I wonder if it is as good as an artemis statue.

Dark Phoenix, maybe you can try 3 or 4 artemis statues and then see what the results are. Then, try them again but sell all your gemini pots the next time. I hope that tradeoff doesn't prove to be correct. That would really hinder our attempts for the perfect training style.

Zack, it may be that the ninja kato is just too good of a monster, like a phoenix. Since I don't have the cd that contains the ninja kato, I wouldn't know. If it lives to 8ys 5(11?)m old, that should give you alot of time to make it good.

It is curious as to how he got his 1st gen phoenix to 7yrs 10m when his method calls for him to battle every other month.

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), December 26, 1999.

Don't forget, he never used nuts oil and had some strange ideas about mint leaves. Of course he does admit to reseting for greats, and since I pressume none of us do It's hard to judge the accuracy of his reports. If you look at others monsters raised using his methods they aren't as impresive (perhaps only due to reseting, perhaps not), so I still wonder if he either left something out or is fudging on his results. btw the nija kato's starting stats are lif 82, pow 92, int 189, ski 159, spd 162, def 102, total 786 (I think, I totaled in my head) and they start with one bonus heavy tech. I can't help you on the lifespan, I got this one when I asked if I could fill my card collection at a used game store and I sold it at the market after writing down the stats.

-- WildCard (rincewind@uswest.net), December 26, 1999.

I never thought Tenchu Stealth Assassin was going to prove useful. How little I knew... I will have to try out a Ninja Kato sometime and see if it can really live that long.

-- Zack (belgrath16@aol.com), December 26, 1999.

I find it kinda difficult to read Azn-beast's method. Maybe its just me, but I like things that are more organized so that it's readable.

Resetting for "greats?" That's quite bold. It must take him a long time to raise a monster.

It seems as though alot of the people using his method hasn't very much experience with the game. That's probably the reason why you don't see very good results from other players.

Well, I shouldn't be picking at his method since I haven't even tried it yet (let alone, read it).

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), December 27, 1999.

It may still be possible to get the Hard Drill,Hard Drill, Hard Drill, Hard Drill method. I've just learned of a new possibility that's been right under our noses all along. I'll have to test it out though. I'll be back w/ the results later.

-- Dark Phoenix (Arax7@aol.com), December 27, 1999.

Hard, Hard, Hard, Hard gets your some incredible stats eearly on; but kills your monsters very fast. I did it with an undine, 800 int, skill, and speed (all around there) but it had 1 defense and power. I did the meditation and leap drills only. I fought a lot of battles to reduce stress and went mint, mint, nuts, candy. Stress still builds, but much slower than before. My monster lived to a (depressing) 3 years. Its a trade off, an old monster with great stats or a yougn dead one that flew through its phases in just a matter of months.

-- Just Alex (aka_cp@hotmail.com), December 27, 1999.

.....grrrr.......Not organized.......mumble..mumble.......grrr.....great results take time......i don't mind if they don't have results like me....At least,i'm happy that the ppl who use it are happy with my method that counts sometimes it is not worth it to get high stats as you are not havin fun....I guess my method is more simpler....Errr...not u offend u or anything rna your method is kind of complex...But of course it works:).So,plz don't pick on my method.Just let ppl chose whose the method they want to use..not insult each others method..ok....deal?

-- Azn-beast (galrepellent@hotmail.com), December 27, 1999.

We've yet to solve the problem of stress in the 4HT style as I now call it. The fatigue is easily dealt with but the stress slowly builds over time.

-- Dark Phoenix (Arax7@aol.com), December 27, 1999.

The best I've been able to come with is 4 consecutive light drills before becoming tired by experimenting with Statues. However, I have heard that Dino Tails do reduce fatigue AND stress by a small amount, not much though. I've come up with something concerning your work with Gemini Pots. There IS room for Magic Bananas if you get the right results. The week after the monster rests, save and give your monster the banana and watch for the loyalty DROP result. In this result, your monster has gained one extra week to its lifespan to make up for the week spent resting. If this can be done, say every other month, then there may be time between the bananas to recoup the lost loyalty. Another proposed way of cramming in just a few more points in an already intense training regimen. Basically, you MUST rest every so often to relieve pent up stress and use the bananas to make up for lost time.

BTW: Our info here is getting rather strung out. Perhaps its time to round up everything and revise the method according to what we've learned.

-- Dark Phoenix (Arax7@aol.com), December 27, 1999.

It is getting kind of long isn't it?

Im sitting around playing Carmageddon2 and Half-Life Oppossing Force along with FF8 while you all are still hard at work on your search for the heavy,heavy,heavy,heavy training method. Keep up the good work!

-- Zack (belgrath16@aol.com), December 27, 1999.

Yep so much methods :)

I have my own "beginner" and "intermediate" methods too :) but I think posting it here would be a pain in the neck hehehe (for me and for readers)

Anyway, these methods are really helpful when we got the MR version that we can battle each other online :) (Hey!!! NO GAMESHARK :))

........ What are we all gonna choose? (LONG LIVE - FAMOUS - POOR) or (SHORT LIVE - NO FAMOUS - RICH) hehehehe

-- Shield Beast (socoolangel@hotmail.com), December 28, 1999.

Masamune - Black Henger(henger/monol)

Beginning stats (order: LIF-POW-INT-SKI-SPD-DEF): 154-434-115- 438-176- 256 TOT-1573. Produced from a 2nd gen Techno dragon(dragon/henger) and a 1st gen evil hare(hare/monol) - 4% chance.

End stats: 685-913-704-980-921-852 TOT-5055. 3rd gen. LIFESPAN: 6yrs 7m. REMAINING LIFESPAN(approx.): 4 months. 95W 0L 64KO. Gold and silver peaches.

This is my most balanced monster yet. It is also my 2nd best (statwise). It unlocked 5 techs including "laser swords" (took forever though). It also "liked" battling.

Wildcard, you were right about that. Because my henger liked battling, it constantly got extremely good results in battling. Besides the fact that it adds an additional 1 point to each STAT, it also increases the chance of getting really good results ALL the time. There were only a few S class battles where I got less than 10 in a STAT. There were a couple of times that I got 17 in a STAT.

From this experience, I think I'm going to try to get monsters that "like" battling from now on. The advantage is far too great to be passed up on.

Dark phoenix, I used your advice with the magic bananas. Starting in stage 2, I changed my (HardDrill,HardDrill,HardDrill,rest) (candy,ML,NO,ML) to (HardDrill,HardDrill,HardDrill,rest) (MagicBanana,ML,NO,NO). However, I only used the magic banana when my loyalty was over 90. I managed to use this style every other month (like you predicted). I also needed the extra nut oils and some smoked snakes to control my loyalty. I guess it expanded my henger's lifespan.... well, I don't really know their lifespan so I can't compare. I did prime at 3yrs 7m (almost the same as a phoenix). Is that normal?

Did you know that the magic banana can decrease loyalty by 5 as well? It can also increase loyalty by 5 too. In the item list by Zoinks(?), it says that lifespan only increases if loyalty decreases by 10 and increases if loyalty increases by 10. So what happens if it increases/decreases by 5?

Well, that was my first henger. I like his moves. His yoyo(s) are very efficient because they always wither more than it costs to use. "Laser swords" has got to be the strongest move I have ever seen... my favorite. Anyone know how to get drill shot(s)? I was thinking it was breed specific to a certain subbreed.

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), December 28, 1999.

I think aka_cp may be right. It may be impossible to do (HardTrain,HardTrain,HardTrain,HardTrain) without compromising alot of lifespan. I did a small test. My test showed that (HardTrain,hardTrain,hardTrain,LightTrain) resulted in approximately the same lifespan as (HardTrain,HardTrain,HardTrain,HardTrain). However, I only tested this within a 5 month period.

I remember a thread where you were talking about "energy" or some sorts. You said that every action took away lifespan, but some do so more than others. So, if you manage to do 4HT(4 X hard Trains, as Dark phoenix has put), you are actually taking away available lifespan from later in life. Well, anyways, I can't explain it very well....

Basically, I think that successfully pulling off (HardTrain,HardTrain,HardTrain,HardTrain) in 1 year(stage increases right after) could be obtained simply by doing (HardTrain,HardTrain,HardTrain,rest) in 1 year 4m(stage increases right after). It could also be obtained by doing (HardTrain,HardTrain,rest,rest) in 1yr 8m(stage increases right after). However, if this theory is correct, then that would mean a wracky could live to 15+ years by just resting its whole life!

Whatever....maybe I'm just going crazy.

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), December 28, 1999.

Part 4

Azn beast, sorry if I offended you. I know I shouldn't be criticizing your method since I haven't even tried it or anything.

The reason why people don't seem to get good results, is because they're probably not as experienced as you and I. If I used your method, I bet I could prove that your method can get the results that you presented.

Also, with the "greats." I am "impressed" that you would go to so much trouble just to reload for those. That must take alot of patience... more than I can dish out.

It's nice to see others having fun with your method. It's also great to see you spent time to make a method to help people with their ranching skills. You're right, we put these methods here to help others. They should decide which ones to use, not us. However, I do have "suggestions" at the top that help people decide whether to use my method or not.

Good job on your Kato, by the way. Getting a monster past 5000 is no easy task.

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), December 28, 1999.

Dark phoenix, are you SERIOUS about the revision? Revising the method to include paradoxines/trorons, new training style, magic bananas, (anything else), would prove to be unnecessary. We could just start another thread that had information about this stuff only.

Maybe we could name it, "Advanced training techniques." There could be a note in the thread that directed people over here for the bulk of the method.

I still use 90% of my original method. But then again, my method is split up into 3 posts - the main(top), edit 1, and edit 2. It would be nice to put those 3 sections together so that people don't find out about their possible mistakes AFTER they've made them.

What do the rest of you think? Should I revise the method? Or simply add another thread with the "new" info.

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), December 28, 1999.

I might follow Zack's idea. Maybe I should take a week off to demolish GT2 and then come back for some more ranching...

Shield beast, I don't understand what you are saying about online battling. How would we do that?

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), December 28, 1999.

RNA, I'm hoping for a MR3 that let us do online battlings.

I love online gaming, Just now MR2 distracts me from Age Of Empires (the game that I m playing online everyday)

Anyone here know AOE/ROR/AOK ????

-- Shield Beast (socoolangel@hotmail.com), December 28, 1999.

Ok, maybe loading for a failure or cheating is alright (although I personally don't like it) but doesn't anyone else feel that loading until you get a great EVERY SINGLE week is really REALLY bad?! I mean, the whole point of great is that the monster did exceptionally well that week. If you get it every week you've destroyed the point. If that's the basis of your method Azn Beast then I take back anything I've said about your stats, they're most likely true and quite high. I then however add that a trained monkey could do that same if he was gaining 20's every week. I mean, breaking 5000 with great's every week? Big deal. Why don't you just use a game shark and get over with it?

PS. Sorry for the rant but loading to get greats every week isn't patiance, it's pathetic...

-- Billy Newlin (venom@usit.net), December 28, 1999.

Maybe REVISION isn't the right word for it. What's needed is a SUMMARY, basically gather all the knowledege scattered through this thread and put into one spot.

Side note, would using drugs help out w/ the stat unfriendly monsters? I mean don't expect them to make the elders cup but have a higher yield than normal.

-- Dark Phoenix (Arax7@aol.com), December 28, 1999.

tsk tsk paul...it takes time to do what i do.....I only try to reset if the monster like the drill...so the chances of great is higher...I understand u know why u say that coz you can't beat the 5000 stats limit.You're so childish,paul!paul,paul.If u can't do it,just shut up!

-- Azn-beast (galrepellent@hotmail.com), December 28, 1999.

Um...why in the hell did you keep calling me paul if my name is Billy(which it is)? Also, just because your method(reloading till you get greats) takes TIME doesn't mean it takes SKILL or THOUGHT. And it doesn't. Tell me how much skill it takes to reload until you get great. As for passing the 5000 mark, no, I haven't. I also haven't spent three days straight of real time on a month of game time just to get greats all 4 weeks. That's just sad. As for being jealous, hardly. I've beaten the legends cup 7 times(3 against most) and I'm about to hit 8. I've unlocked all the monsters and I'm currently experimenting on breeding(getting good/great combos). However, I did all of that WITHOUT breaking the 5000 barrier and also WITHOUT reloading ANY jobs(some battles). But just like I said, even if some people reload jobs because of cheating/failure, I don't think ANYONE else reloads jobs to get greats every week. It's just sad and it's absolutely no accomplishment whatsoever to get a good monster by doing that.

-- Billy Newlin (venom@usit.net), December 28, 1999.

First of all,it doesn't matter what your name is.I don't wanna talk to losers like u.Mr.Billy.Nope that's not call cheating it is call patience,if you don't have patience,just take that mr2 cd of yours flush it down the toilet.So what,if i reset.What are u going to do to me eat me perhaps i'm not impressed.Tsk tsk.Don't ever insult someone else for no good reason.You know what you are just jealous of me.So,shut your mouth and the comments to your self!Mr Billy!Hmmff

-- Azn-beast (galrepellent@hotmail.com), December 28, 1999.

Wow...We can change of this thread to "Grunges Annonomis (That isn't spelled right)".

I do agree with Billy though on the whole reloading a lot to get greats. I occasionally do it but right before a tournament when the stat can go up a level. Both of you (Billy and Azn) should calm down and stop insulting each other, it's just plain childish.

You do that RNA.

-- Zack (belgrath16@aol.com), December 28, 1999.

anynoymous is spelled anonymous

-- anonymous (aka_cp@hotmail.com), December 28, 1999.

anonymous is spelled anonymous

-- anonymous (aka_cp@hotmail.com), December 28, 1999.

Thanks Anonymous.

-- Zack (belgrath16@aol.com), December 29, 1999.

"it's the system they're criticizing, not you." -- WildCard.

Quoted from Wildcard(up there somewheres). This was when Billy and I were arguing about my method. I also took his criticisms badly and started yelling back at him like you(Azn-beast) are right now.

Billy is just making simple criticisms(opinions) about your method. He is not personally attacking you, he is basically attacking your method of raising monsters. I must say, Billy's criticisms are quite harsh and he seems to only focus on the negative points and not give you any feedback on the positive points. No offense Billy, I'm just being critical. Because of this, it seems as if he really HATES what you do.

Everything needs to be criticized. My method, Wildcard's method and your method have all been criticized. Some criticisms are negative and others are positive. Billy tends to be the type of person to make negative criticisms, which is the way he is. Many people can't take negative criticisms very well(ie, Azn-Beast, RNA) so we take it as an attack on us even though it is not.

Azn-beast, you should take his criticisms into consideration and defend your method with simple points, and not insults. You actually did that.....but you added the insults after it. You say that reloading for "greats" has a higher percentage when your monster liked a drill that week. I didn't even know that! That would be a simple defense for your method without having to shoot any insults.

"after the 20 million newbie posts a day I would think you, myself, and everyone else would enjoy having a nice discussion about strategy, raising, technique, etc. without resorting to name-calling or telling someone to shut up" --Billy

Quoted from Billy(somewhere in this thread). Name-calling is an attack on a "person." Criticisms are an attack against something (methods, in our case). Billy is attacking your method, but you respond by attacking him. Don't take it personally Azn-beast, it is their(people who use our methods) right to be able to criticize our work.

Don't worry Azn-beast, you're not the only one who went haywire over negative criticisms. Been there, done that.....

Now, can't we all just get along?

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), December 29, 1999.

Shield Beast, I have Age of empires and tried it for a while. I didn't really like it. I'd rather stick to starcraft. I've got Age of Kings as well but it's been sitting on my table for a couple months now. Haven't had the time to try it.

Dark Phoenix, that's a good idea. Imagine being a newbie - you'd have to read through this whole thread to absorb ALL the info and it would take ALOT of time to do so. However, what new info would you be considering putting in the summary? I know of magic bananas. Paradoxine and Troron are already on their own threads. What am I missing?

Do you want to make the summary since you came up with the idea?

Zack, maybe you were trying to say "grudges anonymous?" I don't know what "grunges" are.

Has anyone noticed that "aka_cp(look at his email)" ALWAYS changes his nickname? I've seen so many different names from you. Where do you get these nicknames? Off the top of your head? Just interested, that's all. My favourite is the swedish name from the thread, "I just wonder if there is any girl (woman) playing this MR series game???." That's some funny s***.

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), December 29, 1999.

hehe..sorry i went haywire...it is my first time to deal with this kind of criticism..I should have known better..when a person put up a raising method,the person would get positive responses as well as negative responses!I thought everybody knew about that great thing i was talking about (glad i could give u new info rna).In the future,i will deal with this sort of situation with extreme precaution.(like defending my method instead of insulting ppl).Thanks,rna!(In life,there are good things and bad things)

-- Azn-beast (galrepellent@hotmail.com), December 29, 1999.

Well B knows who I really am, I change my nick every post. More fun this way. And yes, i make up all my own alias'.

-- Freedom like a Shopping Cart (aka_cp@hotmail.com), December 29, 1999.

Wait, you play Starcraft? Hmmmm.... always looking for another opponent. I'd love to battle with/against you sometime; search for me. "Dr.CatPlop"

-- The Messiah (aka_cp@hotmail.com), December 29, 1999.

Looks like the 4HT idea may have to be abandoned. There's no way to work it without sacrificing valuable lifespan. Your method itself needs very little modification. One thing to be tested would be using items such as Troron and Paradoxine on stat unfriendly monsters such a Wrackys and Metalners. It'll shorten their lifespan but since the gains in some of their stats is so lousy, it might be worth the sacrifice. Well rounded monsters such as Mocchis,Hengers, Hound Knights etc would do better without them. In short, the troron and paradoxine parts would be optional.

-- Dark Phoenix (Arax7@aol.com), December 29, 1999.

Boy do I feel stupid for saying "grunges"...Hehehe......

-- Zack (belgrath16@aol.com), December 29, 1999.

wow i just read the whole thread for the first time and i would like to thank all involed in it i have got a lot of useful info out of it. you really need to start a new thread though this one takes about an hour to read. it looks like it could be sumarized in about a page or 2. and billy it is thier opinions tone it down dont be such an asshole.

-- jason (jas7426@garnet.acns.fsu.edu< /A>), December 29, 1999.

I've done the 4 hard trains with my undine and I'm sorry I did. Its 2yrs 7 mons and nearly dead. About 800 for int, skill and speed. However; 1 defense and power. I went (ML,NO,ML,NO) and you know what what? It was still stressed. I had to fight it every now and then just to keep everything at an area where I could manage it.

The energy I had mentioned one other time was this:

Your monster has 100 energy for the month. Each chore takes away energy, Nuts Oil and rest add to it. You work and take away 30 energy (you work twice and start to leave the "well" area, that area is over the 50 point). If you continue to work your monster without sleep he will hit 0, or another low area. It is in this low area that lifespan starts to be affected. I worked a pure dragon for 4 mons withouth NO or a nap; so it was pretty well drained. It still only takes 3 weeks (max) of rest to bring a monster from "about to pass out" to well. this is why I say there is an "energy" your monster has for its work. Some monster can with multiple times in a row and be fine, others can only work once or twice. Depending on the breed, the energy for the month is different. My gobi could work 3 weeks and be "seems well" but my pixie's can only work twice.

so regular work is about 30 pts off heavy drills are about 40-45 (they don't make you "seems well", but a lower catagory of well.) erranty is 4 reg drills (thats why they are "about to pass out" when they come back). rest would gain back about 60 pts, same with the oil. You can work a monster to seems well; and either rest or oil and they are back to very well. But at "seems tired" it takes 2 rests or a rest AND an oil to bring them back.

Its 12:42 so if the numbers are off screw it. Anyone else care to add to this? I did post a multipage rant about this on the MR1 message board; you can look for it but that page has gone to shit.

-- Closet (aka_cp@hotmail.com), December 30, 1999.

Fatigue is easy to manage but what about stress. Stress is MUCH harder to keep track of.

-- Dark Phoenix (Arax7@aol.com), December 30, 1999.

Dark phoenix, you are right about STAT unfriendly monsters. They would benenfit from troron and paradoxine considerably "especially" if they are no good at either SKI or POW. I did an example in your thread with the paradoxine experiment.

We both know that a wracky spends 4 years in stage 1. If we give it 9 paradoxines, that should kill off about 3yrs and 9months or so. However, a wracky SUCKS at SKI. By doing this, your wracky should have maxxed out both POW and SKI by the end of stage 2! All you have to worry about now, is to raise your 1pt DEF and your 1pt SPD up to 999. This method would work great with a (wracky/golem) because the golem subbreed could compensate for wracky's crappy DEF and LIF. If you want a monster at 5000+(maybe even 5500+), this is the cheapest (but effective) way to do it. Mocks, and Ebonys would be excellent with this "drugged" method as well. I'm planning on raising another purebreed wracky just to see him pass 5500+.

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), December 30, 1999.

correction of above example: "By doing this, your wracky should have maxxed out both POW and SKI by the end of stage 2!" should be read "By doing this, your wracky should have maxxed out both POW and SKI by the end of stage 1!"

Ok, I guess we should put all this new info on a different thread. I guess I can do it. Not now though, gotta go to sleep.

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), December 30, 1999.

aka_cp, from your description of the "energy" each monster has, I developed a new theory that is similar.

First off, you talk about the "energy" that a monster has in a month. However, this energy can be quickly cured with the usage of nut oils. This energy, which can be applied to both stress and fatigue, can be replenished with sleep and the use of items so that it will never deplete to 0.

This is what I think: each monster has a preset "energy" level. This energy level is measured in weeks or turns, as you see it. Everytime you do something, a turn is used up. Example, a light drill or a hard drill will use up 2 turns(but a hard drill gives out more stress/fatigue). When you go to battle, you lose 2-6 turns, and when your stress reaches a "stressed out" level, you lose say, 2 - 8 turns.

However, "resting" reduces only 1 turn. Example: say your wracky has 20 years of lifespan (960 turns). If you do a drill, your lifespan goes from 960 -> 958. If you stress out, your lifespan goes from 958 - > 950. If you rest, your lifespan goes from 950 -> 949. If you use a magic banana(increase lifespan by 1 week) and rest on the same turn, your lifespan will go from 949 -> 949. understand so far?

This would explain my failed attempts at successfully carrying out 4HT (HardTrain,HardTrain,HardTrain,HardTrain - hardtrains can be replaced with lightTrains, they both use up 2 turns) without compromising lifespan (with stress/fatigue controlled). By doing 4HT instead of 3HT, you are using up 8 turns per month(drill = 2 turns) instead of 7 (drill = 2 turns, rest = 1) turns. Therefore, 4HT is using up "energy" faster than 3HT by 1/8 = 12.5% and hence, it will have a shorter lifespan.

Example: If a wracky goes through its life using 3HT, then it will die at approx. 10 years. If it went through it at 4HT, it will die at 8.75 years of age.

Although, it does seem that using 4HT reduces more lifespan than 12.5%. It seems more like 25% or so. But you get the general "energy" idea right? Basically, doing 4HT is no different than 3HT because that extra 1 drill at the end of the month will be done anyways since you'll have a slightly higher lifespan.

However, if this theory proves correct, then a wracky would theoretically be able to live to 17.5(8.75 X 2) years by just sleeping every month! Anyone want to test this out?

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), December 30, 1999.

Unfortunately, aka_cp, I don't have the time to play starcraft anymore. In fact, I haven't played that game for a long time now. I am too busy with MR2. I always have so many games to catch up on. GT2 is next.

I'm not that great anyways. I didn't really learn how to play until I went on the internet and got whooped ALL the time. Then, some guy was nice enough to give me some lessons on rushing and stuff. Even though Protoss isn't that fast, they have powerful units. Once you get those dragoons going, there's no stopping them. I didn't lose as much after that.... but that was back then. Has battle.net changed? does it include brood wars?

BTW, I went by the name..... RNA(surprise).

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), December 30, 1999.

This is strange, but a source from Tecmo has told me that under certain conditions, some monsters DO take more than one item per week. I'm not sure just when this happens but one example the source gave is after a monster returns from errantry. Problem is, I don't exactly know where the threshold for this takes place. It will take me a little while to confirm this.

-- Dark Phoenix (Arax7@aol.com), December 30, 1999.

Yes, battle.net plays brood war and its changed a bit. It has iver 50,000 users and most of them rush, suck, and lag.

-- Bla- Blazo (aka_cp@hotmail.com), December 30, 1999.

Yeah, it happens

-- Zack (belgrath16@aol.com), December 30, 1999.

That's strange information. Is it really possible to give your monster more than 1 item during a week? I'll have to try that the next time I go on errantry.

Wow, I didn't know so many people still play starcraft. You'd think they would get on to other games by now, like........ Monster rancher 2. Too bad there's no online capabilities.

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), December 31, 1999.

No more long posts for awhile, I'll do more experiments and stuff after I finish GT2.

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), January 01, 2000.

I had a pixie who liked nuts oil she would ask for it after battles so if you had given her nuts oil or another item before the battle she would get 2 nuts oil that week and would start the week very well

-- michael (michge@keynet.net), January 02, 2000.

I had a pixie who liked nuts oil she would ask for it after battles so if you had given her nuts oil or another item before the battle she would get 2 nuts oil that week and would start the week very well sorry i mistyped my e-mail address

-- michael (michgr@keynet.net), January 02, 2000.

That is quite an advantage, michael. It would be more useful if she would ask for nut oils before training. However, to get a monster to like a certain thing after combining/slating/discStone takes quite a bit of reloading. I tried getting my disc stoned phoenix to like tablets for 30+ tries and then I got bored.

-damn, GT2's licenses are hard@$$!

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), January 03, 2000.

Hey RNA,

Damn just too much reading for me. I was kind of clueless on stage too. When do you actually do like the battles to get up to S class? Awwww i'm just sooo confused. Sucks! :*(

Awww i know is that:

First 4 months: Milk and Train in Skills!

4 months till Stage 2: train, train, train, train

M1: Candy, ML, NO, ML

M2: Candy, NO, ML, ML

M3: NO, ML, ML, NO

Stage 2.6:

Hard Drill, Hard Drill, Hard Drill, REST

(Candy, ML, NO, ML)

Damn i'm just getting a headache right now. Is there a way that you can send me a short summary copy of your work RNA?

-- chiheng (chiheng@hotmail.com), January 14, 2000.

I can't make it any shorter. Sorry about that. The reason why it is so long, is because I want to make sure that anyone who uses it, won't screw up. If you follow it exactly and you don't mess up along the way, it will "almost" guarantee that your monster will turn out awesome in the end.

I may revise the method sometime soon. It will become easier to read and all three sections will be placed into one.

In my method, you will start your battling in stage 3.

Maybe you can do what others have done: print out the method(all 3 sections) and read it when you're at school or something. You should read it a couple times through and understand it all before trying to attempt it.

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), January 14, 2000.

RNA, could you write this to me, I need to print it out, and I would, but this thread is 30 pages long! Could you rewrite this on another thread please? PLEAAASSSSEEEE?????????

-- JellTrainer (lukadjukic@yahoo.com), January 14, 2000.

I am currently raising a Phoenix that I obtained using a Fire Feather. The beginning stats were pretty close to average for a beginning Phoenix. This phoenix is a test for a new experimental raising style I'm using. This is how this phoenix is doing fo far.

LIF ~400 POW ~80 INT ~810 SKI ~730 SPD ~560 DEF ~520 Current Age: 5 yrs 2 mons. It has not reached Stage 3 yet! I'll post the results when I'm finished.

-- Dark Phoenix (Arax7@aol.com), January 14, 2000.

An update on my Phoenix, Fiera. Just reached its prime at 5 yrs 4 mons. It's current stats:

LIF 388 POW 69 INT 850 SKI 733 SPD 596 SKI 593

-- Dark Phoenix (Arax7@aol.com), January 15, 2000.

Jell Trainer, you could just select the text that you want to print and print it out. You don't have to print out the whole thread. There's only 3 parts to my method anyways.

Well, I'm almost done with GT2 (Damn endurance races take forever) so I'll be coming back to monster rancher 2 soon. I'll revise my method then.

Dark phoenix, it seems you have found a raising method that has optimized your phoenix better than mine could. Those stats are amazingly high for only being in its 3rd stage.

I am quite interested in how you managed to add a whole year to your phoenix's lifespan. Could it be, magic bananas?

Have you read the posts by onomiba? From his experiments/examples, I have found reason to believe that skinniness/fatness will decrease lifespan. What do you think? Could it be possible?

What form is your current phoenix most dominant during its life so far?

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), January 15, 2000.

The phoenix's main form was Normal. On the regimen, I'm currently using, the phoenix could go the equivalent of 4 to 6 months of continous hard drill before reverting to slim form, at which point a stop, rest, feed it a candy and the next week save and give it magic banana and keep reloading until I get the 10 pt loyalty drop, then I continue. The bananas couldn't have added that much to lifespan, I;ve only used about 4 so far. My new technique utilizes something we've overlooked. I'll let you in on it later.

-- Dark Phoenix (Arax7@aol.com), January 15, 2000.

I know his method, and everybody bad mouths AOl...Instant messages are a wonderful thing...

-- Zack (belgrath16@aol.com), January 16, 2000.

Zack, do you mean AOl as in America Online?

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), January 16, 2000.

yeah he does mean america online!So any of people have aol?

-- Azn-beast (galrepellent@hotmail.com), January 16, 2000.

RNA, please help me. I'm using your method with a second generation Phoenix with starting stats aroung 1200. My question is how can you tell when you are on stage 2? I read the thread below, it doesn't really say when. Is it when you are getting 9+ in the skill category on a regular basis?? My Phoenix is almost 3 years with a skill of over 700. According to you I'm doing excellent, so I want to keep going on and getting an excellent Phoenix. Thanx. Oh BTW how's GT2 going? My brother loves that game. (when he gets to play it!!)

-- John Johnson (ltdoesntmatterwhatm ynameis@yahoo.com), January 17, 2000.

The thread, "monsters life stages" in the "raising/training" category contains the information you need.

Basically, you must make a mental measuring stick and measure your monster's size. When it grows in size for the first time, that means it has just reached stage 2. After the 2nd time that it grows in size, it should be in its 3rd stage.

I have an example with an evil hare if you go to the thread mentioned. There are many ways at which you can make a mental measuring stick. Your phoenix should change stages at around 3yrs 10m if raised properly. And yes, your phoenix does look like it is doing well.

Heh, I hog the psx too and my brother rarely ever gets to play as well. I'm still missing a few prize cars from the endurance races and the tournaments. I'm also missing 4 golds from the S liscense but those may be too hard for me. Well, I'll keep trying.....

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), January 17, 2000.

Hi there RNA.JUst some questions i have to ask that i hope u can answer.U said in your guide to decrease spoilty only by smoked snakes.How about scolding them?Does that decrease lifespan?One more thing-Im raising a timenoise and i cant seem to change its bad nature without scolding it.Is it actually possible to not scold it and change its nature to good??I spent 2 hours raising my timenoise but it always fails more than 5 times in stage one.Cant seem to be able to raise the damn creature.And its nature never changes to good.Basically all im asking is-Does scolding decrease lifespan or cause some other side-effect?

-- Golem-head (zabryl@hotmail.com), January 18, 2000.

Do you have a heel badge? That tends to move your monster's nature to evil. I have both a hero and a heel badge so they cancel each other out.

Well, if you're having that much trouble with a timenoise(I wouldn't know), then I suggest maneuvering around my method and scold him a bit. It won't affect your monster's outcome too much, but just remember not to make a habit of it. Only do this in stage 1.

No, scolding does not lower lifespan or cause some other side- effect. It just means that your monster failed/cheated and that usually means that your monster is wasting valuable training time. You can scold if you want to(I sometimes do more than the method says), but just don't do it too much.

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), January 19, 2000.

THANK YOU!!!! I ACTUALLY GOT TO MASTER RANK, FIRST TRY WITH MY PHOENIX!!!! THIS IS THE GREATEST METHOD OF ALL TIME!!!! I DIDN'T EVEN MAX OUT ANY OF MY STATS, AROUND 800+ FOR EACH!!!!!!!EVERYBODY SHOULD USE THIS!!!I CAN'T BELIEVE I LIVED TO BE 7 YRS. 3 MNTHS. AND STILL KICKING, I DIDN'T USE A GOLDEN OR SILVER PEACH (PROBABLY CUZ I DIDNT HAVE ONE AT THE TIME) Since a lot of people read this, I was wondering if anyone knew what CD you can get a Zilla off of? I've tried 300+. Man I have lots of Melon Suezos!!!

-- John Johnson (ltdoesntmatterwhatm ynameis@yahoo.com), January 22, 2000.

What monster did you use?

-- Zack (belgrath16@aol.com), January 22, 2000.

I think he used a phoenix.

Well, zillas are hard to find. It's best that you just keep the zilla that you get from combining with the zilla beard. I think I found a (golem/zilla) on one of my cds but that's about it.

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), January 23, 2000.

Well, to all those that have read all the way down to the bottom here, I should let you know that my revised method is up. It is named, "RNA's advanced raising method for optimum results - revised," which is located in the "raising/training" category.

I'll still be looking in this thread for any questions anyone has regarding my method. I guess it's better to put your questions in here, since I don't really want the new thread to get too huge..... like this one.

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), January 23, 2000.