Someone on the feminine hygiene topic suggested this thread, so here you go.

Do you? How often? When did you start? Does your partner? Does that bother you? (That scene with Annette Bening in American Beauty really floored me -- do people really feel that way?) Do you only when you aren't gettin' any otherwise, or is it a regular part of your sex life?

You can get into the how-to part if you want, but remember that your mom is reading this.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

Answers

I don't, unless it's during sex and all part of the floorshow, so to speak. I really don't know whether Tristan does or not, but I don't think he gets up to it very often (or he's super sly). I don't think it would bother me if he did, though.

I don't because I just don't fancy it. Actually, I don't seem to fancy much in the way of sex at all these days - it seems that a low sex drive has crept up on me over the last 18 months. I read recently that the pill can do this, because of the whole supression of hormones that goes on (and no, I can't be any more technical than that). Has anybody else found this? I've had enough of it, so I'm going to be talking to my friendly family planning lady about it in the next week or so.

But that's actually a whole other forum topic, so I'll shut up now.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

No, actually I think that's a perfectly reasonable direction for this thread.

I'm ... oh, heck, I'm too embarrassed. Someone else start talking and then maybe I'll post something.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

Okay... i'm going to brave and go for it - this is generally such a taboo topic for people.

I remember testing out masturbation in my early teens without really knowing what it was. Then as I got older, I didn't really do it - mainly because I felt pretty damn silly. Then I got involved with a guy sexually, for the first time, and about a year into the relationship he let me know he liked not only to watch me masturbate (I never could do it) but that he wanted me to watch HIM. I could handle watching him (it never really did anything for me actually) but I just *could NOT* let him watch me. To embarrassed.

Now-a-days masturbation is pretty spontaneous. If I'm reading something really hot in a book, sometimes I'll just go for it. I still tend to feel a bit silly, especially if my cat is hanging out in the room but whatever.

I've also been single for... 4 or 5 years? And let's just say I haven't seen a lot of action in that time. I've been ill, and I didn't go out for about 3 years! I'm dating again now, but have all sorts of issues down there. Would you believe, that the muscle that contracts - I don't know what it's called - well mind tends to tighten up, to the point where it *hurts* during sex. Yeah, great eh? On top of that, I seem to have developed some sort of skin condition. It starts with an 'L' and isn't contagious and I didn't catch it or anything - it's sort of like... Eczema? How is that spelled? But it's not. I end up with swelling and redness and the skin breaks and bleeds. Hurts like *hell* - so of course how do you explain this to a date without freaking them out? It's not around all the time but goddamn it sucks. Sorry if that was a TMI moment.

Anyway - my girlfriends and I always joke around about those hand- held shower heads and how they must have been invented by a woman. Let's just say I've got one!

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

OK, I'll go. This is really embarrassing, but, uh... until I was 18, and my first partner showed me how, I didn't really, uh, know HOW to masturbate. Yes, I'm serious. At school they did the sex talk, which involved much discussion of penises and how they fit into vaginas, and Mom gave me essentially the same talk, and all the little "welcome to your body" manuals talked a lot about your period -- and nobody mentioned the goddamn clitoris! I didn't even know what it was!

And yes, I went on a few "voyages of exploration" down there, but I somehow just never made the connection. It was my first partner who effectively showed me how, by giving me my first orgasm. Of course, he felt all puffed up that that was my Very! First! Orgasm!, but what the hell, he deserved it.

OK, that was my quota of embarrassing revelations for the week, I think. Please, other people, post some more so I don't feel alone here.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

I masturbate at least three times a week, despite the fact that I live with my boyfriend, and he's constantly ready to have sex. I started when I was 11, after an almost-accidental discovery with a back-massager (note: I'd been trying to masturbate for at least four months before this discovery, but without much success). It actually took me a few years before I could masturbate without that massager.

My boyfriend masturbates, but he's more embarassed about it than I'd expect. I think it's great, personally. I think his inhibitions stem from the fact that his last girlfriend really discouraged him from masturbating, under the mistaken impression that it made his dick bigger. I've masturbated in front of him before, and he enjoyed the show, but I can't get him to reciprocate, because of his embarassment.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

'Course I do.

How often? Depends. Sometimes I'll go for months and months, sometimes it's like, daily. Funny thing is, I seem to want more sex when I masturbate more...

When did I start? Hm, lessee. Think I was about nine or ten. And I learned how from a book (this is an almost painfully typical confession) -- a huge illustrated-with-photos tome that I got out of the library. I remember the librarian didn't want to let me check it out. "Does your mother know you're getting this?" I went over and got my mother, who said, if I recall, that I could read anything I was capable of reading. (I'm so proud of my mom.)

Technique? By hand only, please. I've tried devices, and they all seem merely irritating to me. I used to masturbate during intercourse, back before I figured out how to have orgasms from penetration, but really, that's mighty awkward.

My partner does too, with fair frequency as far as I know. (I don't keep tabs.) I don't mind that he does; what I do mind (everybody, please, keep very quiet about this) is that he insists on using towels -- says tissue falls apart. If he'd put them in the hamper, I'd be fine. But he leaves the damn things under the bed for me to find when they get crusty. Eeeeuuuuuugh!

What's the American Beauty thing? I haven't seen it yet because Columbine hated it, and his reasons look suspiciously like something I would say. I just hate vaguely sordid stories about slimy unredeemable characters.

(I did find the pill destroyed my sex drive. All four or five different brands and types I tried. Rather ruins the point, don't you think? My partner (see above) is vasectomised. Ideal, in my opinion.)

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

The scene in American Beauty: Annette Bening catches her husband masturbating and tells him he's disgusting. I hated the movie, too, by the way, but it's still worth seeing. Jeremy and I talked about it for hours afterwards -- he liked it, I didn't. We spent a very long time discussing Patrick's review of it. I'd call it a "dick flick" -- you know how in "chick flicks," the male characters are reduced to plot devices, i.e., they're either heros or villains, but never fully fleshed out characters? Well, that's how the women were in this movie. And Annette Bening is a rotten actress, and she single-handedly ruined the movie. Patrick's "Cruella deVille" comparison was perfect. With a more subtle actress, her character could have been an actual person, and I might have loved the movie.

But I digress.

Okay, I'll come out with it: yes, I do, in varying frequencies depending on my mood. Very often as part of sex. (And some times on my own, but it leads to sex: since we have separate rooms, I hear a knock on the bathroom door, and then Jeremy pops in with, "Whatcha up to in here?" That's Jerbethese for "Let's get it on, baby.") Jeremy is the only guy I've ever been with who was as cool with it (mine and his) as I am.

And I agree with whoever said hands only; toys don't seem to work for me. I sort of go numb before anything interesting happens. First time: I think I was nine. Maybe ten.

And the pill didn't kill my sex drive; getting out of shape and feeling like a slug kills my sex drive. As do anxiety and stress.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

If I told you, I'd have to kill you. Just kidding.

Actually, though, I'm here to ask a question that I thought of in the menstruation/now-with-circumcision topic.

As I said there, I have no real-life experience with circumcised members. So what I always wonder is, do guys have to lube them somehow in order to masturbate? Because I know that foreskin will move up and down with one's hand.

Someone tell me. I've been wondering for a long time.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

Well, of course I do.

I've been alone for almost two years, since I was divorced, and there was certainly nothing going on between my ex and me for several months before we split up. I haven't had any other action in way too long. Thank God for an active imagination and the ability to fantasize. It's a regular part of my life when there's a man around, too, and has been since college. And no, it doesn't bother me if my partner indulges.

As to method, hands only. The "toys" don't do it for me.


-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

*blush* Okay, some people I now know in real life read this forum, but since I just wrote in an entry that I'm doing my part to remove the stigma from female masturbation (or at least from talking about it), I figured I'd better contribute a response.

The short answer? Yes. On a fairly frequent basis.

I find I do it more often when I'm actually having sex, especially at the beginning of a relationship. You know, sort of like the body goes "Oh YEAH, we LIKE this feeling!" and decides it wants to have it a lot. Especially when said new lover is approximately 950 miles away most of the time.

I also find it a terrific way to relax enough to fall asleep if I'm having one of my insomnia nights or my mind is racing too much.

I agree with Beth, though, on the whole toy thing. I have one (and everyone I know can just quietly forget that), but I too find that it usually numbs things before anything can happen.

And I don't mind if any partner does it, either, as long as it's not a substitute for me! I don't really have an interest in watching or being watched, though.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

What the hell. Of course, I do. I'm of the mind that everyone does, or should, and that if you ever took the time give yourself a rather thorough cleaning...you most likely enjoyed it, no?

I have no idea when I first started but I was incredibly ashamed about it for years. I didn't have a very healthy childhood, sexually speaking, so that is most likely the reason for the shame.

By the time I got to college, though...look out. I was 18 before I figured out, first hand (badump bump) what an orgasm really was. It was such a nice surprise!

So yes, I do. I enjoy it alone and as part of mutual sexual activity. I also get a huge kick out of watching my partner do it.

Now that I'm single again and got a great Christmas present from Never...it's become a fairly regular thing in my life. Sometimes it's an every day (multiple times a day) thing and other times I go weeks without. Just depends on my mood.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

I do it sometimes. I feel very ashamed of it, because it's actually more satisfying than sex with my spouse. I take antidepressants and they screw around with one's sex drive and ability to orgasm. So when I have one of my infrequent times when I feel interested, the only way I can get off is my little routine, with the machine, with nobody else there. I feel bad because I "should" be turning what little interest in sex I have toward him, and I "should" be working with him to make things better instead of going off on my own.

I can't get past feeling like it's for losers or people who don't have "normal" outlets for sex.

Because of the difference in our levels of interest, I know he does it, but he knows I don't want to know about it.

In the scene in American Beauty he was clearly doing it as a hostile act. I can imagine a situation in which one person says "you interested?" and the other isn't, but the interested one has at it by him/her self with the other's blessing. Generally, though, I feel like when I'm in a relationship I expect each of us to save all our love for each other or whatever.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

Gwen: Guys whose parents ordered this particular painful, unecessary, and mutilating surgery (and really should be ashamed of themselves in this day and age where people should know better) at birth have to pay for it for their entire lives. Because their foreskin was cut off their glans are perpetually dried out. This allows masturbation without lubricant, since it is just dry skin on dry skin. Of course they will never know what masturbation with the foreskin in place feels like, and will never know what they're missing. What a pitiful existance, and so unecessary.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

Everyone does, don't they? I masturbate more often sometimes than others - the more sex I'm having, the more I masturbate, it seems. My first husband and I never discussed it, but I walked in on him in the bathroom once in the middle of it, and I was HORRIFIED (hey, I was only 19 and had only truly discovered masturbation myself). My current (and last!) husband and I discuss it, though not in any great detail. It's a natural part of sex, and how I managed to make it to the age of 19 without ever figuring the whole thing out, I have no idea.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

of course I do. I wouldn't be human if I didn't. I started really young, about 6 or 7. It was on accident though and I was not aware of what I was doing until I was about 10. I just liked the feeling. I found that my hand does not work, at all. I've tried and tried, but nothing happens, I orgasmed once and tried about 10 times. And I start to fell like my arm is about to fall off. I use the old tried and true shower method. You turn on the faucet, and put your clit under it, and bam! there you go. I used a massager and that was great. But I lost it, and I miss it.

I do it when I can find time. Sometimes I wont do it for weeks, sometimes twice a day. Yes, I love it!

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

I just wanted to point out that men can post to this topic, too, if they want. I remember what two other online journalers said once (Nigel and Jim, if I'm not mistaken), about how if a woman admits she masturbates, it's an empowerment thing, but if a guy admits it, he's a pervert. Well, not around these parts. Tell us about your hairy palms, boys.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

Uh, notice the omission of my last name; my Grampa's net savvy.

My Mom always told me when I was a kid that "there's nothing wrong with touching yourself down there". I was like, "Mom, gross!" -- this was probably from the age of 3 or 4. I was about 9 when I, er, stumbled into it, and thought it was the coolest thing in the world, but there sure as hell wasn't anyone I wanted to ask about it. But I read books and watched movies and found out that it wasn't some neat discovery that only I knew about, which was only mildly disappointing...

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

Guys whose parents ordered this particular painful, unecessary, and mutilating surgery (and really should be ashamed of themselves in this day and age where people should know better) at birth have to pay for it for their entire lives.

1. If you yourself have been circumcised, it's probably not a bad idea to have any children you have circumcised. For those fathers/sons who have difficulty bonding, differences in circumcision will exacerbate that.
2. I am circumcised, so I have to lube up. I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything. My understanding of sex is that orgasm cycles from discomfort to extreme discomfort to the relief of climax. The idea that I should feel deprived because I'm missing out on a teeny tiny piece of sensitive tissue smacks of I'm in a club you're not in! (Please note that I only said that's what it sounds like.) If I'm really in the mood to bring myself to that level of discomfort, I would just, you know, delay gratification. I've also started working out regularly in the last year, and my improved self-image has greatly improved my sessions with myself. (Although I still have the giant boy-head, not unlike this picture of Elian Gonzalez.)

   Image deleted by Beth because it was taking forever to load and had fuck-all to do with masturbation, anyway.

   If missing out on the instantanious orgasm puts me in the mindset to maintain my health, I would have to say circumcision has it's advantages in modern society.

There are also hygiene issues, concerning the differences in retention between a bare and a covered glans (contamtinated fluids, loose change, something you think used to be Jimmy Hoffa) which will piss people off if I bring up, so I'm not even going to bring that up.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

Looking at my post, I've just realized how inappropriate it is to put a picture of Elián González in a forum on masturbation. I guess Dave is right. Circumcision is bad.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

So basically, I've killed this forum (again), haven't i?

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

Being circumcisized diminishes your quality of life, Mike, whether you realize it or not. People who are non-orgasmic don't feel like they're missing much, either. But they are. You can't miss something like this unless you've felt it to begin with.

And I know how you feel about the Gonzalez pic. Immediately after posting the item you replied to I wanted to edit it, as it was insensitive to circumcised persons. That was not my intent. My main beef is that misinformed parents still choose circumcision. The word has to get out there. Like I said in the other thread, it shouldn't even be allowed.

I'm surprised to hear you have to use lube. If my wife is going to give me a hand-job I'll usually dry out the glans, since she just can't seem to consistantly do it properly involving the foreskin. It's not so bad, for a change.

As for your male bonding thing, that's kind of scary. This carpenter who used to work at our high-school was missing a few of his fingers. I hope if he has kids he doesn't decide they should look like he does...

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

Being circumcisized diminishes your quality of life, Mike, whether you realize it or not. People who are non-orgasmic don't feel like they're missing much, either. But they are. You can't miss something like this unless you've felt it to begin with.

First you said it diminishes quality of life, but then you say the sensation isn't missed. That's like saying my life is diminished because I'm not 6' tall. It's like saying life is diminished if we live within any parameters, that we are only so tall and only so heavy, and can't be in the garage and in the upstairs bathroom at the same time. You can put a chimp behind the wheel of a car, but I wouldn't agree that chimp who has to catch the bus has a diminished quality of life, and is probably more likely to get where he needs to.

As for your male bonding thing, that's kind of scary. This carpenter who used to work at our high-school was missing a few of his fingers. I hope if he has kids he doesn't decide they should look like he does...

Your finger analogy is scary, because it is alien to lifestyle as we know it. But to a culture that does it, it could factor into self-esteem. Look at the practice of foot-binding. Human beings are strange enough animals to piece together any culture where most of us still can't handle the uncertainty inherent in life, so we mutilate ourselves: drinking, smoking, eating to excess, foot-binding, hate, love, the GAP. I'm circumcised, and I have a tattoo. All things considered, I wouldn't think I've suffered any great deprivation.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

It wasn't easy to find a pro-circumcison article, but I found one.

http://www.personal.usyd.edu.au/~bmorris/circumcision.shtml

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

When people hand me coffee, or hand me a beer, I don't drink it, or maybe I have to explain that I don't drink them. Most people would say I have a diminished quality of life, circumcised or not. I've served in the military, so I've seen what happens to hedonists when they get old. If I wind up like the old sky watcher in Local Hero, I won't think I've missed out on anything.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

Life isn't about how you end up, Mike. We all end up the same: dead. Life is about what you did getting there.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

Cory: Circumcision does have its advocates. Professional associates are not, however, among them. In fact, in 1995 the Canadian pediatrician's association went so far as to officially recommend against circumcision.

There are benefits and there are risks. If it was discovered that removing the right testicle halved the risk of testicular cancer would you advocate removing all right testicles at birth? Why not? After all, we don't need two of them, do we?

(And according to Mike its absence wouldn't diminish quality of life, since you'd never miss it.)

I loved this pro-circumcision argument, though:

The foreskin of uncircumcised boys can become accidentally entrapped in zippers, resulting in pain, trauma, swelling and scarring of this appendage.

It might get caught in zippers! Cut it off!

To get back on topic...

I remember my first time, at around 11 years of age, or so. I had this whole "feeling good" thing going on when all of a sudden there were these weird convulsions. I seriously thought I had somehow injured myself.

That American Beauty scene blew me away as well. Talk about sexually dysfunctional. I was also apalled at the way masturbation was depicted in that movie. I mean, give me a break, nobody masturbates like that.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

Life isn't about how you end up, Mike. We all end up the same: dead. Life is about what you did getting there.

The word karma is Sanskrit in origin, and means action. Western people take the word to mean what goes around comes around. This is because people from the Buddhist countries aren't raised to separate actions from their consequences, like we are raised to believe. Most Americans are raised to believe that if you didn't mean for anything bad to happen, you don't deserve to be punished for the bad consequences of our actions. Thus the largest hate organizations in the US are Christian. It was ok for tobacco companies to sell cigarettes, because you couldn't prove that they caused cancer. Women will stay with a man who batters her if she believes he loves her. Even the birthplace of Lao Tzu, China, is the largest enduring Communist government. If you're human, you're not immune. Like I've said, I've seen how the old hedonists wind up, and I prefer not to get in line.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

It blows my mind, how on earth has a discussion on masturbation become a philosophical discussion about circumcision ? The only expert I would possibly listen to is one who has had an active sexual life (un)circumcised and then got a circumcision. He is about the only one who can actually report reality........................... Even the upper echelon double domes are not speaking from actual experience, but speculating on what they think.

When I am thirsty, I get a drink. When I am hungry, I eat. When I am fatigued, I sleep. When I am humored, I laugh. And the sex organ, penis (or whatever) and the main sex organ (the brain) come up with the craving for sexual activity and there is no partner, masturbation is not wrong, gross, or sinful unless you want it to be.k How do we men have the gall to say we never masturbated, just had wet dreams. Wow, mental masturbation in a dream is much more explicit than you can imagine in a jerk off session. Do I? Yes ? When I need to ( the rest is my business ) Do I do and enjoy consensual sex, You're damn right i do. But as people do not all get thirsty at the same time, neither do they all get horny at the same time. I am a guy. I was taught early, and was raised in a time era when even urinating was half a sin. We, boys and girls played the I'll show mine if you'll show your. You can touch mine if you'll let me touch yours. The, wicked, frowned on by grown ups, activities were the acme of the Victorian underground porno books. It was naughty, if caught we would be chastised, but it was too much fun to avoid doing it.

I followed the Kotex coterie through their discussion up to today, and will continue to do so, not because of prurient interest, but because of the openess and frankness of the women involved, and I have the deep feeling that the thread should be kept to the one subject, masturbation. Dave, did you start your sexual life uncircumcised and then get a curcumcision when you were mature ? If so talk to me.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

"There are benefits and there are risks. If it was discovered that removing the right testicle halved the risk of testicular cancer would you advocate removing all right testicles at birth? Why not? After all, we don't need two of them, do we?"

Women have been complaining for years that doctors have unnecessarily removed uterus and ovaries as a treatment for assorted problems. So, perhaps the likelihood of this would be high if such were the case.

Actually, I don't see male circumcison as an issue. If you had one, you might understand. (heh)

But since you don't have one...

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

Men do stranger things than have their right testicles removed. We drink, smoke, and eat to excess, until the sex urged is dampened. About 30% of American men, married or otherwise, are reported to have no interest in sex. If all the men of New York City had their right testicles removed, the number of men eating, drinking, and smoking themselves into impotence would outnumber them by 10. If you're uncircumcised and eat a burger everyday without working it off, that swimmer with the missing testicle is laughing at you.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

Oy.

Vey.

Only a bunch of men (and this is speaking AS one) could turn a discussion of masturbation into a debate about whether one's orgasm is "better"...whatever that means in this arena....whether one is circumcised or uncircumcised. If one's penis isn't bigger, than one's orgasm has to be. Talk about one upsmanship...

*Sigh*

To answer the original, fairly innocent question....no, lube is not required, even if one is circumcised, for most men.

Al of NOVA NOTES.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

Sigh it is Mr. Schroeder . . . . . . . the self appointed experts on female menstruation seem to be now trying to talk only about circumcision and not the implications surrounding masturbation. See my previous entry tonight.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

I agree, Al: this was supposed to be a nice, happy little thread about masturbation; I'm not sure why either this or the menstruation thread are suddenly a big battle ground over circumcision. It's an interesting topic, though, so I've started a new thread:

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002whL

Mike and Dave, I can assure you that no one else is particularly interested in your endless debates. If you feel the need to post more than once in a row before the other person has responded, that's probably a sign that it's time to take the discussion to private mail. I've about had it with every single topic eventually disintegrating into the Mike Leung Semantical Dissection Hour.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

I've about had it with every single topic eventually disintegrating into the Mike Leung Semantical Dissection Hour.

I am just hearing this now. Your wish is my command.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

So..... back to masturbation! Please? I was enjoying the conversation for a while back there.

Me? Back in 5th or 6th grade, I took a bath every night and somewhere in there discovered the joy of the shower massager. For a few years, I didn't connect what I was doing with sex... until I hit puberty, when I thought I was doing this horrible thing which nobody else could ever, ever find out about! That didn't stop me, of course.

Also, I have to say it is a big turn-on for me to see a partner masturbate.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

I didn't even know women could masturbate until I was 22. I thought masturbation was something done by pimply faced boys in a twin bed under Scooby Doo printed sheets. I was shown "how" by my boyfriend at the time. That was 13 years ago. Wow. Now I am talking about me doing "it" on the internet. My, how times have changed.

-- Anonymous, April 11, 2000

Ironic that my email address has "spanky" in it, considering the thread I'm in..

Anyway, I have never masterbated. I don't think it's gross or weird or whatever, I just never have. I wonder if that makes me weird? Anyway, I just have never been that...sexual, I guess. I hit puberty when I was 8, and I guess I missed out on that part, who knows.

But it fascinated me to no end to watch my old boyfriend masterbate. The faces he would make and the techniques and every little detail just really enthralled me. He got a kick out of it too, so I guess it all worked out.

I'm laughing now just thinking about those silly faces.

-- Anonymous, April 11, 2000

i'm noticing a trend here, at least among the girls, and i'll join the chorus: the better my partnered sex life is, the more interested i become in masturbation. without that (mental/emotional?) stimulation i've been known to go months without even thinking about it.

i stumbled upon masturbation so young (at least by age three) that i don't remember anything else; i got myself off a lot in early childhood. i also got caught at it a number of times, which always involved such intense physical punishment and emotional humiliation that i guess by the time i was a teenager i was successfully 'cured' of the impulse. :/

didn't really go there much until my early twenties. since then i've slowly and deliberately reclaimed the ability, though i can still feel the effects of childhood conditioning. intellectually, i'm fine with it (and i'm actively supportive of partners masturbating). but emotionally and for myself, i have issues. for example, it's much easier for me to orgasm if someone is actively encouraging me or giving me permission -- almost as if that's the antidote to the repercussions of my childhood attempts.

it's not terribly exciting to me to watch anyone banging away at it, which is the way most men seem to approach masturbation. one male ex-sweetie of mine, however, had a particularly sensual way of touching himself that i found extremely hot. i usually like watching (and listening to) lovers' reactions more than watching the actual act itself.

before discovering vibrators, i didn't masturbate for lovers very often -- my only workable position was on my stomach, which doesn't make for a very good show. i have more flexibility with a vibrator, and nowadays masturbating for a partner is a sexual staple, especially since the antidepressants can make climaxing from someone else's stimulation quite a challenge.

re numbness: try a lower frequency, or less direct stimulation? like, from the side, or through cloth, or ...

oh, and hey jennifer? i hear you -- i've had the tense and painful penetration thing forever. the good news is, it can get better. the bad news is, after a decade of concerted effort i'm still not able to control it completely.

funny aside: i didn't learn the actual meaning of the *word* masturbation until i was at least ten or twelve; before that i had this vague idea that it was what boys did instead of menstruation. :}

-- Anonymous, April 11, 2000

Yes, yes, and yes!

I love, love, love masturbation. Unfortunately, Jake doesn't. He doesn't like me to do it because it makes him feel like he's not doing something right. he just doesn't understand that I've been doing this since I was six years old and just stopping is pretty difficult.

Of course, for all intensive purposes, I have stopped.

But when I was still practicing, I would do it at least, at least twice a day, usually more. (What can I say? I'm a hornball.)

The boyfriend I had before Jake... oh. My. Gawd. I loved it... he LOVED to watch me masturbate when we were having sex, I was in heaven. Best of both worlds and all that.



-- Anonymous, April 11, 2000

I'm defective.

Been masturbating since I was a child, and have still yet to get anywhere NEAR an orgasm in all that time. Showerheads do zilch for me. Vibrating objects do nothing for me. Touching on the clit outright feels like a very UNfunny tickling and is extremely uncomfortable. Any kind of self-given hand job does nothing for me. The stomach method someone else mentioned works a little, but I get completely tired before I can get anything worked up at all. The only time I've ever managed was by boyfriend-given hand jobs (god, I miss those. His hands should be insured, I'm telling ya, he could get me off in 30 seconds). I just can't reach that area on myself even with aid, nor can I keep up that pace on myself. I've tried all of the above since we broke up (again), but it still doesn't work for crap and I've basically given up on any kind of sexual urges.

Though in all honesty I'm unsure if I've had a true orgasm or not. Sure, I scream hugely and have er, other reactions, but people tell me that you hit a "peak", and I just never did. AFAIK, plus from actual experimentation, the boyfriend-given hand job could go on for a bloody long time and I still don't hit a big dramatic ending.

Can this get any more depressing? :P

-- Anonymous, April 11, 2000

Boy, that seemed like the Mike and Dave who can cum -- oops, er, I mean who can piss higher contest.

Anyway...

Beating off. I can't believe I'm saying this. Most guys I know, friends and such, masturbate around 3 times weekly. (all of us in late 30s to late 40s) Surprisingly, mostly in the shower for ease of lubricants (shampoo, soap, conditioner) and cleanup is usually a breeze especially with a hand held shower massage. <blushing furiously>

I learned from friends when I was 12 or so and had absolutely NO IDEA what in the hell they were doing. We were in the woods. I just went with the flow and they looked like they were having fun with themselves. It didn't dawn on me until about a year or so later what they were doing and I tried again. It worked. Yipee. I quickly learned moderation since I "practiced" too much the first week. Ouch, but boys will be boys, I guess. <head down and averting eyes>

Mutual masturbation is now part of our sex life and healthy sexual practice. Self masturbation occurs and we sometimes 'catch' each other in the act and it can get more heated from there. Otherwise, we respect each other's space. <feeling stronger>

Toys are fun. <ears now beet red and cheeks feel flushed but still trying to be brave>

Gotta go now and thanks for letting me share -- I think.

Michael of The Road Trip

-- Anonymous, April 11, 2000

Yeah, I masturbate. My partner masturbates. We mastibate together and alone, ourselves and each other. He just really can't get up in the morning before he's masturbated. I'm not quite that addicated.

Actually, like Kate, I started out sometime young, had no idea what I was doing. I was fairly sure it wasn't something I wanted anyone else to know about though! I actually tried to give up a few times when I as in highschool, but... I just couldn't do it!

Now I don't masturbate nearly as much as when I was single, but I think that's a too much work and stress thing, cause leave me at home alone for a day and I'll have to duck into the bed room a few times through the day. I do find when I masturbate more I also want more sex.

Chris really gets off on watching me masturbate, but I'm a little inhibited still so we don't do that all that often, although if he's masturbating too (as he usually is before long) I'm generally OK - then I know he's not totally focussed on me.

I started out just lying on my belly rubbing myself against something (like my rolled up doona [comforter]) for many years. Despite years of masturbating I didn't find out about the clitoris until I was in Uni. now I still do that, but also use vibrators sometimes, and the showerhead thing is good, but don't have one where I live now. the one I can't do - yet - is just using my hand. It takes too much deliberate concentration or something, I don't know...

-- Anonymous, April 11, 2000

:Though in all honesty I'm unsure if I've had a true orgasm or not. :Sure, I scream hugely and have er, other reactions, but people tell me :that you hit a "peak", and I just never did. AFAIK, plus from actual :experimentation, the boyfriend-given hand job could go on for a bloody :long time and I still don't hit a big dramatic ending.

:Can this get any more depressing? :P

A great book is called How to Have an Orgasm...As Often As You Want by Rachel Swift. I just found it on Amazon so that's the US title, I think it may have a slightly different English title, with that as the sub heading. Anyway, it's a great book, which I would highly recommend. And she is into masturbation.

-- Anonymous, April 11, 2000

Why didn't I just use "quotation marks" Would someone like to email me and tell me how you make the quoted bits look different?

-- Anonymous, April 11, 2000

Wow. I guess I'm the outlier here. No, never. Not once. Tried a few times over the years, but got nothing out of it. No sensation, just irritation. Nope. Just don't see the point.

-- Anonymous, April 11, 2000

I must admit, I'm envious of the people who do. What fun! I'm all for orgasms, as often as possible, and if you can get them without having to involve somebody else all the time, and in the privacy of your own shower, then that sounds like something good to indulge in every now and then.

Tristan won't 'do it' in front of me either. Which is a pity, because I'd like to see exactly how he likes it, rather than having to kind of fumble along there. I know, we're all supposed to be empowered in bed these days and tell our partner exactly what they should be doing, but I'd be mortified if he told me that the way I was touching him was having nil effect, and I'm afraid I'd feel dreadfully rude if I said that to him.

I'm so ringing Family Planning tomorrow to sort this pill thing out! It does indeed defeat the whole purpose of taking the pill if it kills your sex drive. And somebody suggested sending Tristan for the snip instead? Maybe one day, but that could royally bugger up future plans at the moment (see the 'planning babies' thread).

I really hope Tristan never discovers this site, Beth, because I think he'd be a little alarmed at how much I'm sharing with the group!

-- Anonymous, April 11, 2000

Yup, I do it. At different times in my life more often than other times. In the short times I was single I did it a lot, and when my boyfriend was living far away I did it a lot too. And sometimes I'm just in the mood and I do it a lot.

With one of my ex-bf's I had a more exploratory sexual relationship. I watched porno movies with him, tried interesting sexual positions, and we watched each other masterbate. He loved to watch me and I can't say that I loved to watch him but we both found it extremely useful to learn how the other liked to be touched. I learned a lot about how to touch a man from those sessions. Too bad he was all wrong for me otherwise, cause I still miss the sexual relationship we had.

I usually use my hand or a small pillow to take care of myself. I find that I don't actually like too much direct clitorial stimulation and that I prefer penetration and clitorial pressure. Oh, I can't believe I wrote that :) I don't own a vibrator cause they don't really do much for me.

Because of some inhibitions (for reasons I'm just not getting into here) my partner has our sexual relationship isn't so open and exploratory as I'd like it to be. We're working on getting past it and things are getting better, but it's a slow process. I have a hard time starting these conversations with him and that's what he needs me to do. My ex used to start it and I'd go along with it and show him what I liked. Good thing he's perfect for me in every other way.

Maybe we just need to have some wine and a good long talk, naked of course.

-- Anonymous, April 11, 2000

I might be the youngest one here ... just shy of 18 years old.

My guy friends discuss masturbation very openly. They'll tell me how often they do it, if they've ever been caught, etc. without giving it a second thought. With female friends, though, it's much different. We're willing to talk about sex and menstruation and stuff like that. But once the conversation leans toward female masturbation, the immediate response is shrieked eeeeew's. And, of course, absolute denial.

Somehow it's okay for a guy to give us hand jobs, and it's okay for guys to masturbate. But female masturbation is *BAD*.

I was raised Catholic and my friends come from about a thousand different backgrounds. I find it interesting that feelings about this are seemingly universal. And, yeah, if bothers me a lot. I felt totally uncomfortable with my body until fairly recently. And even now, I simply don't feel that I can talk about masturbation with even my closest friends. It's still a *deep, dark* secret.

Damn repression.

Liz (of flightless)

-- Anonymous, April 11, 2000

Beth, thanks for mentioning that this forum is for guys too. I honestly was worried about posting on here for that exact reason... the women= empowering guys=pervert (this really goes for anything sexual I've found).

Do you? Hell Yes!

How often? IT varies. When I was a teenager I would do it several times a day. At age 19 or 20 I did it fourteen or fifteen times in one day, to the point where it hurt. I was bored and living in Arizona, what the hell else was I gonna do? Now I do it pretty much every night before bed, every morning when I wake up and occasionally a few other times throughout the day.

When did you start? I was in seventh grade. I didn't really know much about masturbation or anything sexual but I had a vague notion from hints and inuendos. I did it in my parents basement, I had never cum before and was surprised when I did.

Does your partner? I don't currently have a partner. My most recent partner doesn't, which is too bad. She's never had an orgasm, every time she would come close while we were fooling around she would want me to stop. My partner before did and would let me watch sometimes, or would do it while we were fooling around or having sex. That is such a *huge* turn on I can't even describe it. Any guy who is turned off or threatened by it is a loser in my book.

One time while she and I were together we were making out and a friend of hers was apparently watching us from the top bunk (in a dorm) and masturbating and that turned the both of us on a great deal.

Does that bother you? See above.

Do you only when you aren't gettin' any otherwise, or is it a regular part of your sex life? I don't think there i smuch corralation, although sometimes when in a long distance relationship I will try to force myself not to do it for a week before seeing the person, so I will go nuts when I am with them.

how-to well, most of the time it is pretty standard guy fare, but sometimes it gets interesting. I'm not sure if anyone wants to hear about that on here though.

-- Anonymous, April 11, 2000

Fun fact I saw on TV

Chimps have much bigger balls (testicles, whatever) than humans.

They truly can screw around all day.

-- Anonymous, April 11, 2000

Of course I do... It's the one working outlet I have... I have no time or money to search for a partner, and I don't have the looks or social status to be any really attractive girl's choice. So I have my fantasy life-- yes, 7 nights a week-- but I've done it once a day since 12 or 13, even when I had a girlfriend or a live-in partner... My one comment is that it may have ruined my ability to have an orgasm with anyone else (I almost never, ever do), since I'm used to my own touch... Yes-- I have to fake it with partners... And of course it does have other effects-- if I want Angelina Jolie or Christy Turlington or the girl who's Willow on Buffy, I can have her just by closing my eyes. So why bother with actual girl humans? Or...there can be a hostility factor: a girl rejects you, but you can go home and have her do the most degrading things in fantasies as revenge... I do worry about *that*, sometimes... But I enjoy watching a partner do it, and I love performing for a girlfriend. And these days, solo sex is all I'm likely to get.

-- Anonymous, April 11, 2000

I would like to ask-- why is it that in films or books, a girl masturbating is regarded as sexy and enticing and erotic, whereas a guy doing it is regarded as (at best) ludicrous or (at worst) pathetic? Certainly, girls masturbating are regarded as sexy, while guys doing it are regarded as upper-case-L Losers... And consider the male euphemisms for the act: Flogging The Dolphin, Punching the Pope, Shaking Hands With The Unemployed, Canning The Ham, Pounding The Potato, Phoning The Tsar (my personal favorite!)... There is no vaguely derisive euphemism for female masturbation, after all. Why is it that male masturbation is regarded as the refuge of Losers?

-- Anonymous, April 11, 2000

Well, which would you rather see, Lohr? I'm fairly certain most guys would rather watch a girl masturbate than a guy.

And women are culturally trained to let guys do their thinking for them. They have had no voice of their own.

-- Anonymous, April 11, 2000

Karawynn, thanks for the info. My gyno actually recommended someone here at the university of washington who was doing a study on it - but I didn't check to see if he was covered by my plan and also... well - he was male and I just couldn't bring myself to do it. She said something about 'the poor womans bio-feedback'. She said to insert my thumb into my vagina and practice tightening and relaxing the muscle. The thing is, i've practiced using that muscle before - since I read in some book years and years ago that if you can control it you can increase the lovely vibes for both you and you're partner - but it doesn't seem to be quite the same muscle! It doesn't even seem to be a muscle. It feels like a damn solid ring of bone or something. Which of course it's not. *Sigh*. To have the skin issue on top of that now just makes me want to cry.

I also have a question; I'm interested in picking up a vibrator but man - the one or two sex toy type stores I've been into are so damn sleazy. So I basically have *no* idea how to approach this. Anyone have any recommendations on favorite types? I'm at a complete loss. I'm 26 and I've never even tried one out!

Oh and another question; I've actually just started dating someone, relatively steadily. Anyway, the other night I stayed over at his house, and well - I need a little 'oral stimulation' to get anywhere when it comes to intercourse - thanks to my little problem it's very painful otherwise (sometimes ky helps, but not always). Okay so the point of the story is; he doesn't... um *DO* that until he's gotten better acquainted. So things sort of stalled... this has never happened to him before (a girl asking or needing) and it's never happened to me before (a guy just not doing it automatically as part of sex).

So, whatup here? Am I just expecting too much from a guy on the first getgo? He said he doesn't have issues (we chatted about it) and in fact he does do it and he joked that he's good too (and then realized perhaps he shouldn't have mentioned that part). But I mean... I figure if you do one, you do the other.

Answers from boys and girls welcome! 'Cause I'm hellaconfused!

-- Anonymous, April 11, 2000

"And women are culturally trained to let guys do their thinking for them. They have had no voice of their own."

Uh, Dave...I'm curious...how do you manage to espouse your opinions so loudly with your foot in your mouth?

-- Anonymous, April 11, 2000

This one's for Jennifer (and anyone else who's looking for a non-sleazy toy shop): the Good Vibrations website...I think the URL is WWW.Goodvibes.com.

Lovely company, discreet packaging, tons and tons of suggestions. You can order by phone or online if you like, and they answer any and all questions honestly and without leering. They're also a great source for erotica, porn, and other adult goodies.

Have fun!

Have fun!

-- Anonymous, April 11, 2000

Jennifer: I've had experience with a partner with much the same symptoms: tearing and/or tension. We realized that the tears only occured from a certain angle of entry, during a certain position. (It was difficult to pinpoint, since she didn't necessarily notice it the moment it tore, but we did eventually track it down.) Once we figured that out and avoided that angle/position, all was well.

As for the tension, which I think was at least partly related, the answer is plenty of lube and take it slow. He should only put in a little of himself at first, and wait until you're comfortable with intercourse using only that before putting it in a little further. Continuing in that manner he should be able to eventually get it all the way in without discomfort. Your job is to concentrate on relaxing.

As for that 'oral stimulation' issue, it definitely sounds like the guy has issues. Some guys just do not like to do that. If it's important to you, you'd best be moving along. (Just a guess...)

-- Anonymous, April 11, 2000

Thanks for the website address Gena! I think I'll check that out - from home ;p

You know Dave the funny part is, I asked him about it and he says he does it, enjoys it, happens to be good at it (at which point I said thanks and we both started laughing) but he just wants to get a bit better acquainted. And when I thought about it for a bit I was like okay, sometimes, oral sex is much more intimate then the ol' in and out; and (i can't believe I just said that but moving on) I imagine that if a guy I was with asked me outright to oblige him, I might be a bit surprised, and might even say something like "Hey, I'll get to it in my good time - don't ASK me for it!"

So maybe he wasn't that far off...

-- Anonymous, April 11, 2000

Carly of Sins does sex toy reviews every week on eyada.com, and contends that she won't be happy until every woman she knows owns a rabbit pearl vibrator. She's on a mission, and in her words: "It looks like a regular vibrator, but it has a little extension on it that's supposed to (and usually does) reach your clit. That part vibrates, and the part you insert swivels rather than vibrates so it hits your G-spot. You can vary the speed on both, you can have one on and not the other, etc. It is the creme de la creme, and the price tag is totally worth it (almost $100 -- yikes!)."

(If anyone feels like buying me a present, my birthday is only 3 months and 11 days away...)

-- Anonymous, April 11, 2000

Do I? Yes... Although I'm not entirely sure why. ;)

Due to some unpleasantness in my dating years, I've become non-orgasmic. Someone mentioned an ex-girlfriend of theirs that would get to a certain point and the make him stop - heh, that could be me. I'm dealing with it... My fiancee is very understanding. (whew)

I started when I was ... oh, 10 or 11, discovering how cool it felt if I used the shower massager down there. After a while I realized I could do almost the same thing with my hand. As for frequency, it varies. Sometimes it can be three or four times a day... And sometimes I can go weeks/months without.

Yes, watching my finacee masturbate is a real turn on. =)

she's actual size

-- Anonymous, April 11, 2000

Jennifer,

I can recommend a great, non-sleazy sex toy store in Seattle: Toys in Babeland. They have a web site as well, so you can check out the products in advance.

A quote from their site: "Toys in Babeland is a sex toy shop run by women whose mission is to promote and celebrate sexual vitality by providing an honest, open and fun environment that encourages personal empowerment, educates our community, and supports a more passionate world for all of us."

The women who work there are all friendly and will not make you feel embarrassed for asking questions (and they won't bother you if you just want to browse.) The shop is well-lit and nice, rather than dank and sleazy. Check them out! (And, no, I'm not affiliated, just a happy customer.)

-- Anonymous, April 11, 2000

Jennifer, check out www.goodvibes.com. I came *teehee* into the whole masturbation thing rather late in life also. I was 26. It was a subject that my SO and I had never discussed. One very drunken night (I know, for shame) it just sort of happened. Thank you Lord! I have no idea how I survived before that. You see, my SO has been suffering from prostatitis since around age 14. Too much action in the nether regions, and he in in such severe pain that it hurts just to watch him. I truly feel for any man with this problem. As a result, our sex life is a kind of hit-and-miss thing. I can understand him, because I used to have quite a problem with UTI's. Three cystoscopys makes for an understanding girlfriend. But there have been LOTS of stretches of 6 months or more with no sex. The longest was for 15 months. It royally sucked, but when you love someone, you deal. So we get royally drunk, and wound up in a mutual masturbation thingy. We got a toy. We experimented. And no more frustrating months for Kat! By the way, if any of you know a guy with this problem, try Saw Palmetto. I read an article about it and bought some, and there have been no big bads for a long time now. *BIG HAPPY SMILE!*

-- Anonymous, April 12, 2000

Toys in Babeland also has what I believe is the city's only vibrator try-out room. You have to keep your panties on, but at least you get an idea of what the speed and pressure of the various vibrators feel like up against you. I think that each woman has the equivalent of a resonant frequency when it comes to vibrators: too fast or slow or hard or mild and it does nothing, but when you find that frequency, zow zow zowie.

For those who are on medication or just have trouble coming with a partner, but are able to achieve orgasm via masturbation -- try using your vibrator on yourself during rear-penetration intercourse, or just while your man is concentrating on your breasts. (The latter is good if you're self-conscious about using a toy, because you can pull the bedding up over your waist and cover the sight and noise.) The combination of stimulation, whether it be nipple/vibrator or penis/vibrator, can coax even the most reluctant of orgasms out of you.

I think it's just a myth that guys are competetive with, or intimidated by, vibrators; I've never met anyone who felt that way, anyway. When I went to a sex-toy store in San Francisco, Good Vibrations, and they gave me a little pamphlet with my plain-brown-bagged purchase that included the phrase "It is not a substitute for anything," in the section on introducing your partner to your vibrator play. I had a great time waving around my big phallus while repeating, "Baby, it is NOT A SUBSTITUTE FOR ANYTHING."

That was the only phallic vibrator I've ever owned, and I still didn't use it for penetrative purposes. I can't get into sticking plastic in my body; it's too hard, the texture feels wrong, and it reminds me of a medical procedure. George [Clooney, the vibe] was of the type that Babes in Toyland calls a "smoothie". It takes two C-cell batteries and is promoted by them as a good "starter" vibe. They're less than ten bucks but since they're produced as novelty items, they have a limited lifespan. George buzzed his last only a few months after I got him, and it's not like I kept him running full-time or anything.

My other two vibes have been innocent-looking back massagers. One was inherited from an old boyfriend, and I don't know where he got it, but it is, seriously, a General Electric avocado-green thing with a rubber nodule. Its appearance is about as far from a sex toy as you can get. I've had it for thirteen years and I suspect it's far older than that.

In my limited experience, AC-powered vibes are better-made and more powerful -- but sometimes power isn't what you want in a vibe. They also have the disadvantage of being attached to the wall by the cord, which can get annoying when you're trying to swap positions.

I discovered masturbation when I was eight. I did it plenty when I was a kid, but after I became sexually active my solitary masturbatory actives dropped to almost nil. When I do engage, it's prompted by something other than horniness: menstrual pain or insomnia, usually. I experience the desire for the release of a solo orgasm as something completely different than the desire for sex. Self-stimulation is an important part of my sex life with other people, though, and I don't think there's anything wrong with anyone wanking for whatever reason s/he can come up with. [hee hee hee... come up with...]

Uh, this is someone whose name rhymes with Slim Collins, but I'm sure as hell not signing th

-- Anonymous, April 12, 2000

others have beaten (er) me to it, but i second the recommendation for both good vibrations and toys in babeland. (babeland also has a manhattan store.) weekend after next i am moving a mere two blocks away from the seattle babeland, tra la. ('vibrator try-out room,' kim? i had no idea.)

i purchased my hitachi magic wand from goodvibes, selecting that one because a) it was their bestseller and b) it was non-penetrative and non-representational. that model is not currently available, but if i may quote from a recent gv newsletter:

*************** Miss your Hitachi? Go Deluxe!

You might have noticed that the Magic is gone from our relationship. . .and it's true. The Hitachi Magic Wand is (only temporarily, we hope) unavailable, as there is no company in the U.S. that is currently distributing it. We know that you're tempted to rush over to EBay and drop a week's salary trying to scoop one up--we thought of trying it ourselves--but hold your horses. We've got a brand-new toy that'll have the hair growing back on your palms in no time flat.

Dr. Scholl's *Deluxe Wand* is as sturdy and reliable as the Hitachi, with dual speeds (the top speed on the Deluxe is comparable to the low speed on the Hitachi) and a soft, tennis-ball-sized head. Unlike the Hitachi, it's rechargeable so you can take it on overnight excursions, or simply into the next room. And unlike many other rechargeables, you can use this one while it's juicing up--no more waiting for a recharge. The Deluxe Wand is also the only wand currently on the market that works with the *G-spotter* and *Magic Connection* attachments.

***************

for my personal testimony regarding the hitachi, see 'mine eyes have seen the glory': http://www.karawynn.net/journal/980331.shtml. ;> i've now had the pleasure of introducing two girlfriends to the miracle of a proper vibrator -- including one who'd tried the penetrative kinds for months to no avail. fwiw, i second the notion of 'particular frequencies.' i run my hitachi on low -- high just makes me irritated and numb. but one of my girlfriends thought that high was superfantastic ...

jennifer -- no, it's not the same muscle, at least not in my experience. i've had thorough control over the kegel muscle from the beginning, and it never made any difference in the pain. i learned to lessen the pain somewhat by focussing firmly upon relaxation (rather than the activity at hand). but there is apparently something wholly beyond my conscious control at work here, because i *can* (surprise) have penetrative intercourse without any pain at all, if i'm in the right mental-emotional trusting space with my partner. it took me about ten partners (and years) to figure that out, though. :/

and lastly, i wouldn't assume that your guy has 'issues,' from the way you described things. people attach different intimacy levels to different actions, and i wouldn't assume it's any big deal. it sounds like you have good communication and can probably reach a mutual space in relatively short order, so don't worry too much. :>

-- Anonymous, April 12, 2000

Yes I do. Almost everyday. I think it was Melissa said it was great for relaxing before going to bed -- and I completely agree.

My husband has a hard time with sex -- growing up completely hating his body and himself, he is still working on accepting the fact he deserves to feel good. I am the first person to see him naked or touch him. So his drive is probably 1/8 of mine. I would have sex everyday, but since that is not possible, I masterbate.

I didn't start until after I started having sex. It never really occured to me until then. So I think the first time I tried I was about 20.

My husband does, but not usually in front of me (see above comments) I certainly don't mind. He has let me watch and I like it -- he does watch me and that is also fine. I can't imagine being married to someone who I was too embarrassed to do it in front of. (that's just me though...I have been told more than once that I am *too open*)

I am also a no equipment gal. Partly because of the same numbness factor several people have mentioned and partly because I have it down to a science and I can finish in the time it would take me to walk and get one out of a drawer. Plus there are also "equipment issues" in my marriage so not using anything keeps everything separated.

-- Anonymous, April 12, 2000

To Jennifer: To add another datapoint to your survey, I would definitely have intercourse with a woman well before going down on her, and in fact have only really wanted to go down on one girl before. (That isn't _quite_ as shocking as it might sound -- I've only had one sexual relationship last more than a week or so.)

I can't rationalize why I think one act is more intimate than the other, and in fact I think if I tried I would just end up making something up to appease my bizarre and unknowable unconscious mind. It'd be like trying to explain why I like breasts. (Surely you've had that discussion with your boyfriend where you say, "What the hell is the big deal? They're just bags of fatty modified sweat glands!" and he tries to explain why they are so amazing and exquisit and wonderful and everything good rests within them.)

Answers to the great and powerful Xeney: (Do I?) I become unbearable if I don't for a day or so. It gets so my friends start dropping hints, like, "Isn't there a chicken you should be choking somewhere?" Ok, that's a lie. (How often?) When I was a teenager, 3-4 times a day, now, in my really late twenties, about every other day when supplimented by sex. (When start?) I can't remember, I guess I was about 13. Late bloomer. I remember the girl I thought about, though. Elaine W. I won't mention her last name, because I'd feel bad if she did a net search and found herself mentioned as an object of spankage. Or if her father, Mr. Wong, of 411 Elm Street in Vancouver, BC 4X2-G7H, did a search and found it out about his lovely daughter.

(Does my partner?) Occasionally. (Does it bother you?) If she does it by herself, sometimes I get a little furrowed because I worry that I missed something fun, but usually I wasn't around so it's my tough luck.

Circumcision: I am, wish I weren't, feel like I enjoy sex less than other guys, but damn it's hard to get reliable data on that. ("So, Bob, do you like sex a LOT? I mean, a WHOLE LOT? Cause I love it, I mean, I really do, but I wonder if I couldn't love it more." "Please get away from me now, Steve.")

There are bigger things to worry about. Like prostate cancer! One in five of us will get it! And then we'll be impotent, unless we go on TV in exchange for Viagra like Bob Dole.

I found it really interesting that two women mentioned they 'tightened up' to the point of pain during sex; I've dated a woman who had the same reaction sometimes. We went to about a thousand doctors, and they all had incredibly unhelpful and/or condescending advice ("I think you're just crazy! See a shrink.") to the point where she didn't want to go any more.

But unless the net (or Xeney's forum) somehow attracts crazy people (nah), there must be a real condition here, and it doesn't sound like anyone's gotten any really helpful medical 'help' yet on it. I'm not big on finding conspiracies in the patriarchy (largely because I'm part of the patriarchy), but this really bothers me.

Has anyone ever been given a name for this thing?

MEANWHILE, Someone mentioned a boyfriend had been told his erections would be smaller if he masturbated -- I've found this to be (sort of) the truth. That is, masturbating makes me less horny, and the hornier I am, the measurably larger I will be. Sometimes I'll wake up after a night of arousing dreams (I'm unable to climax in dreams, damn it all) and I'll be just HUGE. Usually I'll call in my girlfriend and show it off. ("Hey, check this out! It's a monster! Please kiss it oh please oh please oh please!")

On a final note, I have never heard ANY of those terms used for masturbating. Flogging the dolphin? Phoning the tzar? What the hell? Now, when I need to talk about it, I call it, "Training my poodle."

- "Steve" (Not his real name, sorry. Too many people to protect.)

-- Anonymous, April 12, 2000

I only mind my partner's masturbation when they want to come on my ass or breasts. I used to not mind this, but now I find the resulting sensation to be kind of gross. This bothers me, as I've always been extremely sexually adventurous and open, and I don't know why I'm all of a sudden like, "My ass is a no-spooge zone". Am I alone in finding the feeling of semen on my body to be kind of... off-putting?

Please say I'm not, because otherwise it means I'm a frigid bitch.

-- Anonymous, April 12, 2000

I don't think anyone is a frigid anything for not liking one particular act. It's just not your thing, that's all. I'd guess that a lot (if not most) women feel the same way, except in porno movies.

-- Anonymous, April 12, 2000

I don't get anything out of a partner cumming on me, but I don't mind cum on my breasts. I guess it depends on if there are tissues available etc. I'm not willing to get a facial like the porn stars.

Why I love my man: once after he came on my breasts, he looked over at them and said "You look like a glazed donut."

-- Anonymous, April 12, 2000

someone had asked about masturbation terms for women? there's a whole ton of them here.

-- Anonymous, April 12, 2000

Oh, my god, those were hilarious. Folks, that site is worth checking out, if only for "diddling miss daisy" and "riding the clitorisauras."

-- Anonymous, April 12, 2000

Or, try the Ultimate Masturbation Resource, with info for males and females.

Glazed donut, hee! I'll have to remember that for... next time my FRIEND's boyfriend comes on her... yeah, that's the ticket.

-- Anonymous, April 12, 2000

Am I the only woman here who prefers penetration to clitoral stimulization, then?

-- Anonymous, April 13, 2000

Answers to questions:
Yes, I do. One-two times a week (more if it's right before my period).

I don't really remember when I started. I just remember that when I was a little girl and sliding off of my brother's top bunk bed I'd feel something "very special" once in a while. By the time I was 12 I had figured out how to feel special more often, and frequently fantasized about Shaun Cassidy while taking care of business. Sometimes the fantasy was Parker Stevenson, or Leonard Nimoy (hey, I'm a Trek freak, what can I say?).

Only one of my past partners ever masturbated in front of me, and the only reason it bugged me was because I wanted to be the one to get him off.

However, I've always felt a bit uncomfortable masturbating in front of my boyfriends. Don't know why, since I'm pretty open sexually, but that's just one thing I've had trouble with. Hopefully I can get over it in my next relationship.

I do masturbate more often when I'm not in a relationship, but sometimes even in a relationship a gal just needs to take care of business when the lover isn't around. No sense in waiting, right?

As for how-to, manually is the best way (it's much easier to control speed and pressure), but for a quick orgasm the trusty shower head is the way to go. The only vibrator I've ever used is a tiny purse-sized one my best friend gave me as a semi-joke gift (the plastic box said "Life Saver"). It worked once, maybe twice, then I guess the motor broke. Makes a useful dildo, though.

(Did I just say that? *blush*)

-- Anonymous, April 13, 2000

You know, that's what I was thinking re: the oral sex thing. He just attaches more intimacy to it then I do. No biggie - and it was *SO* easy to talk to him about it! So I'm not worried - I'll just bring along a lovely bottle of lube or something and we'll be off and running I should think :)

Thanks folks!

Also - I know other chiquita's with that pain problem too! And *no one* seems to be able to help. A fellow poster sent me a great email with all sorts of advice - but man, it'd be nice to know where this is coming from.

And it's odd; it *used to* start about two years into a relationship; I'd suddenly start having problems. Funny how it was usually when things were crappy. *NOW* it's ALL THE TIME! It's very rare to have intercourse without problems.

Sux.

So what *is* going on? Is it physical? Physiological? Psychological?

-J

-- Anonymous, April 13, 2000

To no one you know:

I prefer penetration, and thank god someone else does too. I think my clit is only for decoration and not any real use at this point :P

-- Anonymous, April 13, 2000

Whew! Okay. Let's start a club, Jennifer!

-- Anonymous, April 14, 2000

Yes. Depends on the time of month. I started around twelve, on the bath faucet. My husband does, not all the time but fairly often. It does not bother me at all. Infact I am trying to get him to let me watch. I would love it if he would do it in the bed with me like Lester! But he only likes to perform solo. I do it rather or not I am having sex.

As far as the how to.....I have never, and I mean never had any luck with my own hands. I think it must be in my head or something that just doesn't allow me to get in to it completely. Because I love my husbands hands on me! I wish I could, because batteries are so damn expensive. I do have a very nice relationship with my vibrator. And I fondly remember this shower massager I once knew. It still lives at my parents house. God how I miss it.

-- Anonymous, April 14, 2000

Shower massagers cost around $20 at discount stores, and are very easy to install. I discovered them in the early 1980s, and I never go without one anymore.

I started when I was a kid, and never stopped. Toys, shower massage, hands, okay, all of those are fine. I have trouble having orgasms during sex -- and *never* without stimulating my clit. And I do mean never. Whatever -- as long I get off, I can't complain about technique. I've had a couple of guys make sketchy comments as to why regular penetration doesn't do the job. Funny, they always back-pedal before I'm peeved enough to blame it on their "equipment." Must be the evil look in my eye...

-- Anonymous, April 14, 2000

Now that we're all on a first name basis (um...), what about the g- spot? I feel like I'm the only woman on earth who hasn't discovered hers yet.

-- Anonymous, April 15, 2000

"Not" jane.moore:

No, you're not the only one who hasn't discovered your g-spot. I haven't either. My ex was pretty inventive sexually, so if *he* couldn't find it, I don't think I have one.

Haven't missed it. I don't think I'd survive anything more intense than what I've already experienced (for all his faults, the ex was pretty, um, well, inventive - let's leave it at that).

-- Anonymous, April 15, 2000

I've read a lot of feminist literature about how the g-spot doesn't even exist, but many, many of my friends swear that they've found theirs and that g-spot orgasms are unparalleled. I'm so fucking jealous.

-- Anonymous, April 17, 2000

Hmmmm. Perhaps we're all built differently. I might be clitorally dead, but the rest of you can function. Or in not-Jane's case, hers is fine, but perhaps her G-spot just doesn't work. That might explain a lot.

I sure know mine does, which in a way is a relief since otherwise how else am I going to get off...though since I can't get myself off in that area, I guess it doesn't matter much now :P But don't feel too bad about the lack of g- at least you haven't er, discovered something new and bizarre about yourself in the event of finding one.

-- Anonymous, April 17, 2000

Actually, from what I've read, not every woman has a G spot. Some do, some don't; it depends on the density of the nerve endings located in a certain area of the vagina.

-- Anonymous, April 19, 2000

This answer is a bit behind post, but I figured I may as well respond. After all, I've seen yours and now it is time to show you mine.

Yes I do, but the frequency varries. Sometimes it seems like I'm a sexual dead zone (and I'll go for months without any interest), and yet there will be times when I just can't wait to get home and... well...

Anyway, I first discovered masturbation when I was about 8 or so, when I noticed the sloshing and swirling of the water draining out of the bathtub produced a rather odd feeling. Needless to say, I checked it out and found it to be suitably plesant. It was an interesting past-time until I started high school, and then it sort of tapered off.

As for the scene from American Beauty---I haven't seen the movie yet, but a friend of mine owns it and I guess I'll just *have* to watch it now (peer pressure and all that!)... we'll see about a reaction to it later.

Ummm... in regards to using masturbation as a substitute or as augmentation for my sexlife? Well, it IS my only sexlife. Yes, I am the World's Oldest Living Virgin. I can be viewed in the Guiness Book of World Records, and I am currently on display at the Fresno Zoo. *sigh* I'm still under thirty (for a couple of years yet), but I feel like I may as well give up now and find a suitably run down old house and start collecting a menagerie of strays... OK. I have now rambled into the murky regions of the Land of no Naked Fun, and I will leave you all now to find your way back to the brighter part of the world.

-- Anonymous, May 05, 2001

i am 12 years old and have been masturbating since 9 and have a fairly small penis and was wanting to know, does masturbation decrease penis growth or am i just going through puberty a little slow?

-- Anonymous, June 19, 2001

No, stupidity and trolling decrease penis size. I'm afraid there's no hope for you.

-- Anonymous, June 19, 2001

Oh. . . that's. gotta. hurt!

-- Anonymous, June 19, 2001

Read about it sometime in my early teens and immediately went exploring. Promptly got quite attached to the feelings engendered by orgasm, such that it became a daily ritual at one point.

I've experimented with different techniques over the years and given the general male populace's lack of digit flexibility, it's something that still routinely turns up in my sex life. If the guy just ain't gettin' it right, I get impatient and shoo them off so that we can climax together. It's and boom there's fireworkd, while we need to coax it on out.

Frequency waxes and wanes with my mood, but a minimum of once a week seems fairly standard for me.

-- Anonymous, June 22, 2001

I started at age 4, and have never stopped (am now 67). My wife has never been able to achieve orgasm through regular intercourse, so I always bring her to climax manually before I do my thing (which she also enjoys.) Mutual masturbation and oral sex are now more important to us than regular sex. Our sessions now often end with me masturbating in front of or onto her. I still feel the need to get it off alone, however, and I sometimes use porn (mostly of older women, which even as a youth I always preferred) as a stimulus. I strongly recommend www.jackinworld.com as a tasteful and informative source on masturbation.

-- Anonymous, July 24, 2001

Any time you folks want me to delete this thread, just say the word.

-- Anonymous, July 24, 2001

yes.... ewwww.

-- Anonymous, July 24, 2001

Oh, no. No, Beth, we can't do that. Somewhere out there there's a sad, lonely fat little man with a collection of triple x manga and a stack of mail order bride catalogs who needs to find a warm and loving place where he can finally share the results of of his cucumber and jackhammer masturbation experiences. He needs a receptive, loving audience. He needs the catharsis. He needs to be free!

He's looking for us, Beth. We have to be there for him.

-- Anonymous, July 24, 2001

The erudite senior citizen recommends Jackinworld. Oh yah, I knew that.

-- Anonymous, July 24, 2001

I love you guys.

-- Anonymous, July 24, 2001

Somewhere out there there's a sad, lonely fat little man with a collection of triple x manga and a stack of mail order bride catalogs who needs to find a warm and loving place where he can finally share the results of of his cucumber and jackhammer masturbation experiences. He needs a receptive, loving audience. He needs the catharsis. He needs to be free!

I am not fat or little damb you!!!!!!!!

-- Anonymous, July 24, 2001

sorry, sorry. I meant "creepy and weird."

-- Anonymous, July 24, 2001

Okay, could someone please explain what "manga" is? At first glance it looks like it might refer to Italian oral sex, but I understand from context that it's Asian. So, I'm clueless.

-- Anonymous, July 24, 2001

Strictly speaking from a latinous subtext, manga appears to be the female, or pisttillic, form of mango. Therefore the term "triple X manga" loosely refers to the culmination of intimate sexual acts with ova producing fruit. The act alluded to in the statement is most commonly described in religous circles as "bearing fruit". One can only assume, because of the writer's context, her example was designed to be not unlike the comedic situation of American Pie.

-- Anonymous, July 24, 2001

Meanwhile, in the real world...

Manga are Japanese comic books, generally black and white, and they're a lot bigger than American comic books. Anime is Japanese animation (Robotech, Ranma, Pokemon, F3).

There are tons of forms of anima and manga. Adults as well as children read them, and the adult versions are often risque or completely pornographic. Sometimes totally perverted (see hentai).

However, you'll rarely see penises. That's forbidden in Japan. They don't even make vibrators or dildos shaped like an actual cock, they're all bunny rabbits and dolphins and shit like that.

Damn, I know too much about Japanese sexual fun stuff.

-- Anonymous, July 24, 2001

Well, that's certainly one explanation Mar. I'm unsure about your facts, but "Meanwhile in the real world" was enuff to make me fall for you all over again.

Forbidden Penis sounds like a great title for a novel to me.

-- Anonymous, July 24, 2001

Dude! They actually forbid penises in Japan? So, little boys have to have them removed or something? Man, that's one intense country over there.

-- Anonymous, July 24, 2001

Puts a whole new spin on the circumsision debate, eh?

Where's Dave Van when you need him?

Oh hell, who EVER needs Dave Van?

-- Anonymous, July 24, 2001

Well, my wife and kids need me. But then, their view of me hasn't been tainted by a bunch of spiteful people.

You can find me over here, for now.

All alone.

Shunned by all.

(*sniff*)

-- Anonymous, July 24, 2001

Um, that's not what schizotypal means, Dave, but you just keep on with your bad self. Somewhere else.

-- Anonymous, July 24, 2001

OK, I'm too shy to talk about my own masturbation, so I'll talk about my girlfriend's nephew instead. It seems he was masturbating in the shower when he was twelve, and his mother walked in. His response to her "What are you doing?" was, "It's my penis, and I can wash it as fast as I want."

-- Anonymous, July 28, 2001

I started when I was about 13, after trying for some time. I was in the bath. I was immediately hooked. I did it constantly. I'd basically sit in my room and try to see how many times I could do it in a night -- 6, 7 times in a few hours.

I still love to do it, but have hit that classic 30-something male slowdown they told us about in sex ed but none of us ever believed would happen. I just don't do it as often anymore.

That said, I love sex with my wife (it's frequent) and masturbation is a central part of it for both of us. It's a tremendous turn-on to watch her (in the early part of our relationship, it took a while to get her to agree to let me watch; I really love she can be so intimate with me about it now).

-- Anonymous, July 28, 2001