Pledge of Allegience : LUSENET : School Board : One Thread

Do the public schools still recite the pledge? I thought they abolished it in the schools because it was considered unconstitutional?

-- Eileen Davis (, April 06, 2000


At the public Jr. High where I work in Missouri, all classes say the pledge first thing in the morning.

-- CindyBacklund (, June 19, 2000.

We recite the Pledge each morning at assembly in our school

-- Linda Dillingham (, November 08, 2000.

Public school children should be made to say the Pledge of Allegience because they need to show appreciation for the country that has provided them with so many things.

-- Daniel James (, March 11, 2001.

I think that the pledge should be reformed to not mention God because of different beliefs. In or schools, we are forced to say it, but for us few of different backgrounds, it makes us feel uncomfortable to say under God and be forced to say it. We have no problem pledging allegiance to my country that I am proud of, but i shouldn't have to pledge allegiance to a God that I might not believe in.

-- Linda Langness (, March 18, 2001.

Well actually, yes, public schools do recite the pledge at the beginning of each morning. There was a law made that all students must stand, although, if they find scruples against this symbol of our country or the country itself, they do not need to repeat the actual pledge. Since then, this law has been taken to supreme court and was repealed in its entirety. It is against the first ammendment. Standing would actually be part of the pledge, therefore students may remain quietly seated without disrupting. I know this because I refuse to stand for the flag salute. I have no respect for such a bloodsoaked symbol. I find this coutry pig-headed and disgusting. I am appreciative for the things I do get in this country, however, I will never respect it. How can you? Spending all of our money on weapons instead of food for the hungry and shelter for the homeless or how about some research for diseases? Police brutality and unfair trials, white suprumessy, homosexuals can't even marry in some states, forced to go to war to kill even though you may not be old enough to drink, or even drive, there are endless unjustices in this country. The pledge itself is false anyway, there is not justice for all, and they do not know we are one nation under god. The administration even tried to pressure me into saying it, they tried to tell me how it was illegal not to. I could have gotten them in so much trouble, but I'm too kind. Oh well. So I hope that answers your question.

-- xbrittanyx (, April 11, 2001.

I believe that saying the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag is a healthy expression of most people's deep love of our country. Teachers can take the lead in expressing patriotism thru the simple 20 second act of tribute to our flag, our country, our heritage, and even God.

We can proudly thank the brave soldiers before us who gave of their life so that all of us today,of all ages young to old can enjoy freedoms envied by most countries.

Yes, we at one time allowed slavery in our country. We represented about 7-10%, at most, of the slavery that took place worldwide. It is aledged by many scholors that slavery still exists amongst various tribes. I can't confirm that. The Battle of Gettysburg was the ulitmate sacrafice in the name of freedom for all. Hence, the red stripes on our flag. The 50 stars represent our states unification.

School children and adults alike can remain proud to say the "Pledge." America is not a perfect country, just as no person is perfect, nor any church or school,etc. perfect. But we are a special country. No other country goes to the aid of other countries, especially after natural disasters, like we do. When was the last time another country came to our aid? Stand proud America! "One nation under God..."

-- john m sheridan (, April 11, 2001.

I am a student at a high school in Idaho and we recite the pledge everyday. I do not think this is a good idea because when the school does it everyday the students become sloppy and recite it just to get it over with. If the school recited the pledge on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday it would be more effective.

-- Kirsten Zurfluh (, May 29, 2001.

Some do, but I think it is interesting that when we really ask people to pledge allegience (Oathes of Office), they pledge allegience to the constitution and not the flag. Wouldn't that be a better pledge?

-- John Neal (, September 28, 2001.

This is in response to -- xbrittanyx (, April 11, 2001. I respect your right to express your opinion. I also respect your right to live in another country...please exercise your right!

-- Jack Hamilton (, October 03, 2001.

We say the PLEDGE ALLEGIENCE First thing in the morning.So,yes.

-- Kate Bonner (kabonner@worldnet.attnet), October 09, 2001.

Some schools are now even SINGING the Pledge. New music was written for it in August 2001. An online mp3 is a free download for parents, kids and teachers to learn it and sing it. Search Google "Pledge Allegiance new song"

-- Ken Davies (, October 10, 2001.

I think that saying the pledge of allegience should be manditory for all american citizens to say the pledge of allegience. Anyone who doesn't want to say the pledge of allegiene shoulld be booted out of America!!!!

-- Heather Mari Stevens (, November 09, 2001.

I think that in this time of great greif we need to remember our country and what we stand for whether it be by reciting the pledge or whatever but anyone who disreguards the country shouldn't be considered a true citizen!!!!

-- lisa boggs (, November 09, 2001.

the pledge of allegience kick ass! anyone who does not say it should killed by a swarm of hammerhead sharks!!!

-- barbara fucker (, November 09, 2001.

it's me again MArtha and I have one more thing to add you should be dipped in shit then fed to the hammerhead sharks you dirty dickhead son of a flying monkey whore TOODLES GOD BLESSYOU

-- barbara fucker (, November 09, 2001.

I think that saying the pedge is uncostitutional. I am a student at Cunha Intermidiate school in Ca and they make used to make us say the pledge everyday. But I have spent a long time reseching it and I no long have to stand and recite it. If everyone else whats to say it then fine, i repect them and do not disturbe them when they are saying the plegde but I refuse to participate.

-- Joseph Langford Qunicy (, December 01, 2001.

Reciting the Plegde of Allegience should not be a challenge because of one word, or if you have to stand or not, or if it voilates who'S regilon.. The Pledge of Allegience is respect for this country and is democracy. For years I have been serving my country throughout the world in the USAF, and I have seen poverty, salvery, and people who do not have say, no rights! Feel fortunate that you do have a strong country joined in belifes of freedom. No one ever turns down money...even if it has "In God We Trust" written on it, do they? It was really disturbing to listen to someone try to remember the Pledge on an radio talk show to win money, the DJ was very disturbed. If someone happens to read this and wonders if saying these words will violate their rights.....remember the people who protect those rights.

-- jlove (, December 11, 2001.

I think a good question to ask for what is mostly a Christian country is, if Jesus was alive and living in this country would he say the Pledge? From what I have read about the man the answer is no. I think his response might be "I pledge my allegience to God and God only".

-- Rich H (, January 24, 2002.

In West Virginia v. Barnette the Supreme Court established that it was unconstitutional to force students to say the pledge of allegiance but they can still recite it anyway and precious few people actually know of the decision. In response to the Jesus comment I believe Paul stated in Romans 13:1 "Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God" So why should we not recite the pledge as Christians authority is delegated only by God. As to the flag being bloodsoaked, yes our country has done some horrible things but the blood on that flag is that of patroits who died for it. America comes all or nothing, choose its freedoms and mistakes or choose something new.

-- Brian Camara (, January 30, 2002.

I do not know why the Pledge would be unconstitutional, but a matter I find noteworthy is that "One nation under God..." is untrue in that our nation is not under God in the sense it does not conduct itself according to God's principles. However our nation is under God as He has instituted all authorities and nations for His own plans and reasons and has complete control over its existence. This remains true no matter what utterances we make with our lips.

-- Mary Southard (, February 19, 2002.

i think i like to smoke pot and jackoff because my name is michael timmons!! michael timmons no stand for pledge!! i make butt sex and smoke ciggar33ts!!!

sex0r in teh flag r00m gay gay sex

-- Michael Timmons (, May 14, 2002.

I know for a fact that the pledge of allegiance is unconstitutional. I, being a christian myself, am not saying the pledge of allegiance is wrong, and that the words 'under God' are wrong, but to put a statement of allegience to God in the allegience to the Government, America, and everything they stand for is completely unconstitutional. The Constitution says that Religion and Government can NOT, I repeat can NOT, be mixed! Stating your allegiance to your Country, and your Government and your allegiance to your God can never be in the same oath! If you don't believe me, consider this:

The pledge of allegiance was first written by Francis Bellamy in 1892. It stated: 'I pledge allegiance to my Flag and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.' It does not contain the term 'under God' because Bellamy knew that Religion and Government could NOT be mixed. It also did not contain 'equality' only because Bellamy knew that the state superintendents of education at that time were against equality for women and African Americans.

The term 'under God' was only added to the Pledge of Allegiance in 1954.

I would gladly Pledge my Allegiance to my Country, and my Government if the words 'under God' were not included.. I cannot in good faith go against the Constitution that this Country was founded upon. I Pledge my Allegiance to God every single day that I am alive. I don't need to destroy what the Constitution stands for to Pledge my Allegiance to God.


-- Gargan (, June 27, 2002.

As I am righting this, I don't know the answer to the question of whether kids are required to say the pledge. As to whether people should be forced to do it, I'ld say the answer to that is plainly obvious, and I won't dignify the suggestion by acknowledging it further. The flag itself is a symbol, nothing more. Symbols mean different things to different people. To a soldier in the field, the flag may be a sign of hope that relief is just over the next hill, for a vet on the street, it might be a ruined dream and endless nightmares. To a child in class it might be the awsome reminder of an all encompassing universe called America, to a student in high school, it might be a rag that represents a corrupt and decaying government run by stupid old men who oppress masses by keeping them homeless and making them get summer jobs. Whatever it means to you, the point is that it's your choice. Your choice. You have the right to treat it as you would like. Revere it or revile it, that's up to you. No one in this country has the right to tell you what to believe, and even in our justice system, an oath has no meaning if it is taken under duress. Maybe the words should be changed back to the original version, but that really wouldn't end the problem. There is no way to end it, except to acknowledge that the people of America do , in fact, have the right to choose for themselves what they wish to pledge to.

-- Terry (, July 07, 2002.

I would like some information. I was told that in 1952 the words "under God" were added to the Pledge. Is this true? Can anyone give me the correct information? Thanks

-- Elmer Hinckely (, July 08, 2002.

Time of Addition of "Under God" was 50's

Yes, to my knowledge, in the early 50's, it was added.

-- JR (JohnRuskin_Schoolboard_Forum@ComplianceOfficer.Com), July 08, 2002.

The pledge at this point seems to be the talk of the city and probably all of our fifty states.I ,however,see nothing wrong with the mentions of God. As people have brought up before if Atheist or otheers of a different religion h=felt that strongly about it then they wouldn't be using money either. It also goes farther than that. Our country was founded on religion so you would have to reform our Nation in order to completely remove God! To continure if you have that big of a problem with God and this whole country is based mostly around him them move, no one is forcing you to live in the United States.

-- Brittney Villalva (, July 12, 2002.

This is in reply to Britany. This country was NOT founded on religion or the Freedom of/from Religion. In all actuality this country was founded on the freedom for taxes. Please re-read your history books. Take a refresher course. Yes, in 1954, Congress added, "Under God," to our Pledge of Alligance. This act violated American's first amendment right to freedom of religion. The first amendment actually reads, " Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibniting the free exercis thereof..." Thomas Jefferson was an atheist. He did not sign the Declaration of Independence to found this country on religion. Please do your homework. I believe in this country. What this country stands for, but I do not have to believe in my neighbors religion. I use this country's money because it is our currency of choice. But like most atheist's, I too believe that the motto, IN GOD WE TRUST is unconstitutional. We would not say, "IN ALLAH WE TRUST"; nor would we say "IN BUDDHA WE TRUST". These sayings would be unconstitutional just as IN GOD WE TRUST, or UNDER GOD.

-- Rachel Compton (, July 21, 2002.

"Public school children should be made to say the Pledge of Allegience because they need to show appreciation for the country that has provided them with so many things. "

^^^ how do you figure? remember the last part of the pledge... "...and justice for all" complete B.S.!!! read up on our countries freedom - and you can understand why so many dont believe in this "pledge of allegiance"

-- Clint Lenard (, August 02, 2002.

Right on Clint and Rachel. "Under God" isn't even part of the original pledge mind you. That wasn't added until 1954. Nobody is saying they don't want to express their patriotism. We're just saying that the mention of god shouldn't be part of our patriotism. And do you all really think that by making kids say the pledge every day that they're any more patriotic??

All this political correctness BS is what's ruining this country. Nobody's ready to stand up for the real liberty anymore. Hell, you could go to jail for saying what's on your mind! Instead of worrying about some phrase in the pledge, why don't we start teaching children the real truths about our history or even what's going on today. It's a bad world out there. Let's teach our children to be independent thinkers instead of being part of the massive brain-washing that's going on!!

-- Joel Bishop (, September 04, 2002.

I think that the pledge of allegience sux ass! we shouldn't have to say it. were giving respect to a peice of cloth! why not say a pledge to my shirt than! the pledge of allegience should be illegal...

-- Lex Beaudry (, September 13, 2002.

The pledge is extreamly stupid, Pledging to a frigin peice of cloth, talking to it??? we shouldn't have to say it, that would be like saing i pledge alligence to that bench over there. Magority of the kids who say it in schools, dont even know what the fuck there saying its like some automatic thing thats taught to them before they can write!

-- Jess McDermott (, September 13, 2002.

"..and to the republic for which it stands.." SPEAKING of not knowing what your saying! You're pledging allegience to the country that the flag represents, not the actal flag.

Now I am actually pretty against the recitation of the Pledge of Allegience. Among many of the points already presented I also find that it is recited too often. "Familiarity Breeds Contempt" If you say it everyday, It isn't going to mean anything. Me as a rather moderate, recite it on the first day of every week at school, and make it mean something, while everybody else does it everyday and don't know what they are saying. I personally do see it as rather inappropriate to include the words "Under God" as it violates peoples constitiutional rights.

I had to flinch when I read the few "EVERYBODY SHOULD HAVE TO SAY THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIENCE EVERYDAY, OR GET 'BOOTED' FROM THE COUNTRY" Thank "God" for your freedom of speech! Now give us ours. This board exemplifys why we don't HAVE to say it...Not everybody has your views, and that is what makes a democracy such a wonderful place (and I can say this because I highly doubt anybody holds a grudge against the country for being democratic). If we followed your extremist rants...we'd be living in Russia. I find it funny how the people who say we should appreciate our freedom so much are the ones who want to restrict it the most and the ones that disregard this rights are the ones that use them to their fullest extent...

-- Josh Fulfs (, September 18, 2002.

im a high school student from nyc and im currently researching a pro debate based on the resolution that the pledge should be made mandatory. now i actually believe that the pledge should be made mandatory. putting aside the words "under god" for a moment, we see that we are pledging our allegiance to what the flag represents. that is not simply or necessarily our corrupt power-minded government, but rather to the ideals which the government represents, and the potential that can come of it. also, if you reside here, take advantage of american resources, show some damn allegiance, and if you have problems following that, just look up the word. i know of no other place in the world where a man can go from being dirt poor to rich through a dot com business, and where a woman can go to work each day and get promoted to the same position as a man, and if you cant see how wonderful that is, then you shouldnt be living here and taking all your liberties for granted. that must sound very pigheaded but i dont care. i did the research. and plus, its a thirty second, i dont even noe why youre complaining. and b.t.w., even if you say it everyday, it is possible to recite that and get the same strong emotional meaning from it. im living proof of that. when i pledge, i see men dying for that flag, dying so that people like us could have the freedom to argue this really stupid point. thank you. ~:+:~brightest of hope~:+:~

-- Davina J. (, October 07, 2002.

I think people who don't respect the pledge should get out. who care's if the under god part was added. god can be anything or nothing. it's freakin respect people. buddha was a god, the devil is a god, zeus is a god, nature is god, good orderly direction is god. a god-"higher power" is anything greater than you so god god god god god and people who don't llike it can shove it and leave!

-- (, October 11, 2002.

Iam 13 and in 8th grade I belive that we should say "under God" in the pledge of allegiance.If you think about it this nation was formed by men that belived in God greatly our 1st president was a very God- beliving. If it wasn't for our founding fathers religion I don't think our country would be as great as it it. (My middle name really is independence, I was born in the 4th of july)

-- Katelynne Independence Klein (, November 12, 2002.

im a 14 and in the 8th grade and i think one nation under god should stay in the pleadge bcause first of all church people created it and it should stay in the pleadge and.its just one persomn that want's it to be out of there and it should not be out of the pleadge and it was a hoilday selapration for tyhe night of colbus.

-- casey r (, November 18, 2002.

Even through im Just a High school student I KNOW that we did not break away form britian because of taxes such as one member posted earlier telling some one to do their homework, maybe he should. Any ways I believe the word god in the pledge is a refernce to all versions of god, if you ask a muslim what he belives in he will say my I believe in God. I think the Pledge should be more that relgion. Ever time i say i think of my family that has died in the war america has sent them in, doing it because the loved america, afraid yes, I think of My Great grandfather that decided that america would be the best country for he children not the country that the owned land in, and had lived in since attlia passed over the mountain. That Flag Is has the blood of 18 members of my family and the blood of many other families, People have died to defend, they have died to gain land for it, The died because America ask them to and because the loved there country, and where true americans. Pledging allegience should not matter about relgion, think of how many athiest have died for america, how many jews, catholics, orthadoxs, and so on. We should do it because so many have died for the flag, for US. If the flag was no big deal to them why did they fight for in so many battles to the last. At bastonge my great uncle fought to keep germans form capturing the american flag that was flying over the city. He was cripled there and was never the same. Many people have lost love ones to wars, even if some of those wars wernt consider just, or were not supported by people. We owe those that have died this, to take it a way would be a crime. ANother thing people are appaled by terroist burning flags, i wachted 2 americans burn one and while people where shocked no one did any thing.

-- Travis Dovala (, November 20, 2002.

a federal appeals court has declared the pledge of allegiance unconstitutional because it contains the words "under god". Judges in san fransico said the patriotic statement is illegal becuse it violated the basic seperation of church and state as ordered in the US Constitution. If the ruling stands and the pledge is not changed, children in these states will not have to say the plage Alaska, Arizona, California, Hawaii, Idaho, Montana, and Nevada

-- Deborah Montemayor (d22PINKY@AOL.COM), December 08, 2002.

I think the schools should not be allowed to recite the pledge until someone revises it be constitutional. Pride in our country is important, but we are a free land where people are supposed to be able to choose their religious beliefs and forcing children to talk about "god" in a public school is wrong. They are there for an education, not to be converted into religions.

-- Sarah (, December 09, 2002.

Not to the middle schoolers: Not all of our founding fathers believed in God. Thomas Jefferson who played an integral part in the formation of our country was essentially an athiest. He wrote letters explaining how a "wall" between church and state was neccesary. Therefore your point is incorrect, therefore, irrelevent.

Anothe fact that bugs me about the pledge is that it i not commonly known that it IS in fact optional. They teach it to kids at an early age and never once tel them that they DON'T have to. It's like brainwashing them. There are kids that are totally surprised that I can choose NOT to say the pledge every morning, because the option was never presented to them. DO you notice the distict lack of education on the topic in our school system? I choose not to say the pledge anymore because of this.

P.S. As far as I have researched you ARE required to stand durng he salute. Does anybody have specific rulings that it is not required to stand during it? Thanks for any info.

-- Josh Fulfs (, December 15, 2002.

I have done a little research, and here are my thoughts. You said that children are brainwashed into saying the pledge of allegiance. At such a young age, children will not do anything they dont have to, simply because they dont see the point. If you were given the choice between standing up and saying some stupid oath every day and sitting in your seat twiddling your thumbs, which would you choose? I believe that elementary children should be forced to say the pledge, or atleast encouraged to. If their parents have a problem with it, fine, let them talk to the teacher and get permission for the student to sit quietly while the rest of the class recites the pledge. In the later years, students should be given oppurtunity to say the pledge, not forced to do so. The pledge is a symbol, showing our respect and admiration for our country. Now, onto those tricky little words, "Under God." First, let me give you one definition of the word: "a powerful ruler." With that definition, almost anything could be a god: President Bush, the U.S. itself, or something less political such as drugs or money. Everyone has their own god, no matter what their religion, or lack of religion. Everyone has something they believe in, even if it is the belief that there is no god at all. We all are united under god, however, which god is different for every individual. This is a free country, however, and most likely, there will be few people who agree with me, and that is fine, that is what this country is all about. No matter what you believe, I want to know. Please email me and let me know your thoughts. Thank you.

-- Meggo (, December 15, 2002.

First off I would like to apologize for my grammar and spelling in my last post. I was in a hurry when I typed it and did not take the time to proofread. I will write more later but I don't have time right now.

-- Josh Fulfs (, January 10, 2003.

My daughter's elementary school has them say it every morning. I have instructed her to not use the words referring to a diety that were added by the religious fanatics in 1954. I believe that the current version is an unconstitutional endorsement of religion and the extra two words should not have been added to it.

-- Mike Shelley (, January 16, 2003.

If people have a religious problem to our pledge, Then lets change the pledge to "One Nation Under the Constitution". Lets see people refute that!

-- Scott Clarke (, March 09, 2003.

The pledge is not unconstitutional. IF one word bothers you then don't say that one word. Pretty soon we won't let people use money because it says "in God we trust". Plus the pledge is saluting our country not God and thats what any American Citizen should do, Salute our country and the people who fight for it.

-- Whitney (, March 18, 2003.

I wonder how many men and women have cried out to a God that they have professed that they didn't belive in when that moment of death occurred.I am Native Anerican and while I reflect as to how my ancestors were treated, I refer to the belief that we were heathens and had no right to worship A God who was a part of our culture, I look back to a time when I was beaten by missionaries at our all Indian school during the early 60's for speaking my native tongue. Maybe it's part of the little known fact that our country's first president made the comment that he not only wanted the Indians defeated but he wanted wiped from the face of the earth. I could have bitter feelings about a governmental system which treated my people with such disgrace but I don't. We were made to stand and recite the "Pledge" everyday......While our Nation is made up of many cultures and Gods, we are still a UNITED NATION.....our system is not perfect by any sense of the word but it is the best system around. I lost a brother to Vietnam and Uncle to WWII and so on, down the line. They served because it was their duty to uphold those ideas and beliefs which our country holds dear. I myself served our country, with pride. I lay flat on my stomach as the North Koreans shot at us as we walked perimeter guard. I had a very good friend die that night. I fly the flag PROUDLY in my front yard. I serve a GOD who has kept me from harms way. I pray that those of you who hold contempt for the phrase, "under God", never have to know the restraints that are imposed from other types of governments. At some point we will all have to stand and make allegience to someone or something, I hope you can make the right choice.

-- Gary Davis (, March 29, 2003.

I have always been proud to say the pleadge of Allegience. you , that want it out because they say ir is ucconsyiuional, well to constiuntion says we have yhe right to say it. The freedom of speach gives us the right to say the pleadge. My daughter still says it in her school. I do not think that God should be taken out of it. God is what thid country was founded on . My fahter was in the Nam, my son is now currrently in the Navy serving this counry protecting these people that are against the pleadge to keep them free. So they can have choices and the freedom to make them. So next time you are watching the news and see what is going on on theis world, yiu should thank God that yu are in a country that is free , and not one where your every move is watched, or they take a book you want to reda away , or you can not watch a movie that you want to watch.And I would like to say that I'am Proud to be an Amercian, and yes I belive in God. May God bless our country, and keep it safe from those who oppose us, and want to take our freedom away from us. God bless all of those who read this. Glenda Kohler

-- Glenda kohler (, April 03, 2003.

The pledge of allegiance is a good thing!Our founding forefather's didn't even believe you could call yourself an american if you were not a christian.The GOD they worshipped was the GOD of the bible!Not some fat man from china or some shiek from araibi or some huge computer in the sky.The Father, the Son,the Holy Ghost,three in one.All for one and one for All.The Lord Jesus Christ is his name!GOD bless america!In GOD we trust,and one nation under GOD are all trade- mark's of this great country!GOD,guns and guts made us and will keep us free!GOD called this very nation from the start to preach his gospel to the four corners of the earth.To be a beacon of light in the midst of darkness and to share its GOD blessed bounty with all who our in need!Every heart beats true to the red white and blue.Red for the blood of Jesus,white for purity and blue ,for true blue semper fi forever faithful,always loyal death before dishonor.Its no accident that, our flag was called OLD GLORY!America the beautiful,America the loveable GOD shed his grace on thee!I thank GOD that we have a christian president who will uphold the honor of our nation and not disgrace it.GOD is LOVE and LOVE unites but selfishness divides.I beleive the United States of America has yet to see her finest hour! And all nations of the world will be blessed because of it.LORDGOD pour out your SPIRIT upon all flesh all mankind!Help us all see where our great heritage came from here in america .I pray for the leaders of our nation, help them all to make godly decisions and laws to benefit the government of the people by people and for the people and Lord remove all those in high places who would seek to destroy it with ungodly values.Root out the enemy within .GOD bless America, and GOD help many people of all natoins to come out of the darkness into your marvellous light!The bible says (Rom 10:13)whosoever will call on the name of Jesus from a sincere heart will be saved!No doubt about it!JESUS is LORD over america and JESUS is LORD over all forever!Amen.So be it and to GOD be all the GLORY!!!

-- john jakubowski (, July 09, 2003.

Okay people, let's get this straight once and for all:

THOMAS JEFFERSON, author of the Declaration of Independence, who played an extremely important role in the founding of this country, and served as the third president of the United States, was NOT a Christian and did NOT believe in God.

Therefore, our founding fathers did NOT hold the belief that those who didn't believe in God were un-American... because one of the founding fathers himself didn't believe in God! This country was NOT founded on the basis of religion, because one of the founding fathers did not found it on the basis of religion.

So don't keep bringing up the point that all the founding fathers were christians and such; they weren't.

Personally, I say the pledge of alliegance, but I omit the words "under God". I find these to be unconstitutional and against my personal beliefs, as I myself am not religious.

By the way, for those who didn't know, in the state of Texas (where I live), it is MANDATORY for students to say the pledge of allegiance, the Texas pledge (Yes, sadly enough, we have our own pledge. It's ridiculous.), and observe a moment of silence. I think this is somewhat extranneous, but I still say the pledge of allegiance, minus the words "under God", because I respect and love my country. I remain standing for the Texas pledge, but do not say it. I find it absolutely outrageous that we should be required to pledge allegiance to a STATE. Trust me, I don't plan on living in Texas very long. What happens when I move to New York (if all goes as planned..) and have already pledged my allegiance to another state? I think it's just unnecessary to say the Texas pledge, especially as I greatly dislike the state anyway. As for the moment of silence, of course I observe it, so as not to disrupt others, but I still think it to be a bit unnecessary.

Those are my opinions. For those of you who are speaking along the lines of "Don't like it? Then leave!", you obviously don't know much about the country you're living in. The beautiful thing about the United States of America is that people can have their own opinions and express them without fearing punishment or oppression; this includes the right to dislike or disagree with certain things the U.S. does. (Personally, I disagree with just about everything President Bush does) I completely respect others' opinions on these matters, but if my opinions cannot be respected in turn, then all the founding fathers' efforts were in vain.

It seems that the deciding factor for the success of any country is the actions of its people. Please, can the people of this country help to make it a better, more understanding place?

-- Jessi (, August 04, 2003.

I believe... that a lot of people on this page need to go back to school and learn how to spell!!! Jeez, now I know why this country is going to pot!

That said... I am definitely a patriot.It also appears that I am one of the few U.S. citizens that still loves this country that has given me so much opportunity (...and knows how to spell). However, I do take issue with forcing people to say the pledge, but for different views than what most have posted here.

First, I don't think the words "under God" should have ever been added to the pledge, and likewise should be eliminated from our currency. But that in itself isn't why I disagree with laws that make it mandatory to say the pledge in schools or elsewhere.

I think patriotism comes from one's heart and can't be forced. If one has to be forced to say the pledge, then that person probably is practicing hypocrisy rather than patriotism. It is a privilege for our citizens to have the opportunity to say the pledge, as it is a privilege to live in this country (if you don't accept that, I suggest try living elsewhere and see how you like it; if you do and like it us both a favor and stay there!).

Abstract things like faith, love, patriotism ( for one's country), pride in oneself, pride in one's community... these things can't be externally forced to happen, they have to come from oneself. So if you don't want to say the pledge, I don't think you should have to... but I feel pity for you that you have the inability to see the all the good in this great nation we live in.

I personally will say it whenever the time is appropriate, even though I'll leave out that "under God" part. -terry

-- terry n. (, August 20, 2003.

I mostly agree with what the above person said (including the part about the spelling, lol)... I think that forcing people to say the pledge does nothing; if they didn't want to say it in the first place, I highly doubt it's going to mean much when they're forced to say it.

Of course, I also think it's a bit extreme for people to say, "Why don't you just move to a different country?" because, contrary to what seems to be popular belief, driving for days, hiring a moving van, selling your old house, buying a new house, and finding a new job are all very financially and mentally taxing things to do. Moving isn't that easy; especially for younger people such as me whose only method of transportation is their parents.

And trust me, if I told my parents, "A bunch of people said we should move to Canada if we don't want to say the pledge, so let's pack up and leave," they would promptly escort me to a shrink. Honestly, it's ridiculous to tell people to move, because they're certainly not going to spend all that time and money to move out of the country just because you told them to.

Now, I do say the pledge (the U.S. one.. without "Under God," mind you) but I respect and celebrate other people's right not to say it- I don't think you should necessarily have to say a pledge in order to prove you're a good citizen. In fact, it sounds rather suspicious to me...

Anyway, I bet if some people could move to Canada, they would (I think Canada kicks ass), but it's not quite as easy as you all seem to think. So just let those people do whatever they want; that's what this country is all about, and saying the pledge should be a CHOICE, not a requirement.

-- Jessi (, August 22, 2003.

Our school hasn't had to say the pledge yet but I hear that they will be saying it like once a week or something starting this coming week. I think that people are entitled to their own opinions and if they wish to pledge to the flag then whatever.. that is their choice. it should not be enforced however. if everbody was entitled to say it it would definitely be unconstitutional. i do believe that it is a personal inconvience for many though because not everbody believes in a god. if this country is so free then there is no way we would have to say it. and i agree with who ever it was earlier that said people should be pledging to the constitution anyhow rather than the flag. not that i personall would if the pledge was to the constitution but it does make a hell of a lot more sense. but wudeva.

-- shayla nychel (, September 07, 2003.

I will not say, sign, stand, or salute the pledge of alliegance. Its no different than when we talk about the communist propaganda in the USSR. They had all the song and poster of how being communist was and living in Russia was so great. I think forced nationalism is manipulation and it is sick. I wont even begin on the problems with the assumption in the line "under god"....

-- Win Monroe (, September 09, 2003.

I believe if you are proud to be an American and you live in this wonderful country - even if your life has not been great - you should recite the pledge with pride and teach your children to love their country. If you dont respect your own country who will? If you dont believe in God, then dont disrespect those who believe in God. If you dont like our pledge or what it stands for, I suggest you move to another country so you can be happy.

-- Thelma Samaniego (, October 15, 2003.

"If you dont believe in God, then dont disrespect those who believe in God."

Well, that statement could go both ways. I could just as easily say: If you believe in God, then don't disrespect those who don't believe in God.

Religious people are not better than non-religious people, and are not entitled to more respect... and vice versa.

-- Jessi (, October 19, 2003.

well said jesse... however, you are missing the big point that religious people ARE better than nonreligious least in their minds. that's why the various religions try to either convert nonbelievers or eliminate them... so everyone will be conformed to their particular beliefs . i have found religious people of all faiths, tend to have an i'm superior than you attitude, i know what's best for you attitude, i know more than than you attitude, --- i'm right, just because i KNOW there is a omnipresent being out there (though don't ask me for proof... it's just that i know... so therefore you should believe in MY opinion... cause i'm so smart i'm right!!! damn you!) attitude.

therefore, we people who don't believe in their god ARE inferior and therefore deserve absolutely no respect in regards to OUR beliefs.

HERE! damn IT.. swallow MY that mouth wider damn you! NOW SWALLOW!!!!!!!!!!

-- t.newsom (, October 20, 2003.

i think we should be able to say the pledge! the 1st ammendment say that we should be able to have the freedom of speech. so let us do that. and let us be able to do what we want! ket us keep one nation under god in tehre if we want!

-- teina (, October 29, 2003.

I do not believe the Pledge is unconstitutional, however, if one does not believe in "God", then I do know for fact that reciting this pledge is optional - so do not say the pledge. I do believe however, everyone in this wonderful country should pay respect to those who have served our country with pride, dignity, and the belief that we are entitled to life, liberty, and happiness by standing when the American flag is presented in front of them. Every country in the world has a flag and the people of those countries show their respect. My husband is a Gulf War veteran who is being denied many of the guarentees he was promised when he served this country in our military. He still stands with great pride for our flag, it is a reminder of those who have gone before us and those who will serve in our future - a country where we have the freedom of choice! I feel the pledge should be said daily in our schools and those who believe in what is pledged should speak it aloud, those who only believe in a portion of it should speak only the portion they believe in, those who do not believe in any of it should think of moving to another country. Under God was added to this poem true, but the real meaning of this poem was to address what the American people believe. It is ashame that God isn't in our lives more. I feel if a higher power were to be referenced in a posititve way daily that our schools would be safer, our children would be happier, and our lives would not be so full of the need for greed. God has a plan for all of us, believers and non-believers, are you receptive to his plan? I am and I will support my children praying at the pole and I will support them reciting the pledge daily. It is their right to pledge their allegiance to our country!

-- Valerie Mullikin (, November 02, 2003.

hey eileen, first of all, a big thanks to your husband for serving our country and protecting my rights and to you for enduring the hardships that spouses of service people often endure. i too believe everyone should want and be able to honor the service that your husband does for all this country's citizens and be able to honor the very country that he put's his life on the line for. just because i don't believe in god, doesn't mean i don't believe in what your husband fights for and that i don't love this country just as much as the most religious person in this country. i do... i just don't happen to believe in your god... i would die for to ensure the freedom that you have to worship your god... i just choose not to believe in him myself. that right to worship a whatever omnipresent you choose is given to everyone in the U.S. constitution's first admendment... that same admendment also ensures my right NOT to worship a god. the first admendment starts out: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"

that was included in the 1st admendment to ensure both YOUR right to worship whoever/whatever you wish, and MY right NOT to worship were both not decided by congress or political policy... but rather by a private decision of each and every citizen of these United States.

constitutional law is called that because that is exactly what it is... the ultimate law of this nation decided on by the founders of this country and setting the principles that this nation is supposed to stand for and live by... and what your husband risks his life for.

when congress pass a law in 1956 that added "under God" to the national pledge, congress passed a law that establishes a religion that worships a "God"; that directly violate the first admendment's "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion". thus, this is totally unconstitutional and violates my 1st admendment right NOT to worship. i, like you, believe everyone in this country should WANT to honor this country and it's servicemen and SHOULD WANT to say the pledge. unlike you, i don't think everyone in this country should accept congress violating any person's constitutional rights... regardless of their stance on religion. if they can violate an atheist's rights (like me)... it opens the door for them to violate anyone's rights... including yours. note... the first admendment does NOT state that "congress can make laws that establish a religion, but anyone that doesn't believe that way can opt out when the time comes to speak it aloud" if the first admendment said that... then i guess i'd agree with your statement to leave in the "under god" part and those that don't believe in him can just not say it. until the first admendment is change to read the above... "under god" needs to be removed.

most definately!!!it IS your children's right to say the pledge most definately!!! it IS my right to say the pledge also... without having to accept YOUR god. will you support MY rights? or just YOUR children's?

BTW... i live a very good, respectable, honorable, decent, caring, POSITIVE life... and i don't believe in god. T. Newsom

-- T.Newsom (, November 03, 2003.

ooops.. actually the above post was in answer to Valerie's post, not eileen (where'd that name come from??? hmmmm) but if there's an eileen out there... i'd be happy to address your post too. :) T.Newsom

-- T.Newsom (, November 03, 2003.

ps. sorry about all typos above, i'm at work paying tax dollars and in a hurry... i'll try to proofread better next time. T.newsom

-- t.newsom (, November 03, 2003.

I would like to make a couple points, and while you're reading this, please mark each as "true" or "false"

When one references God, Allah, Buddha, Krishna, etc, or something being under one of the aforementioned deities, one is talking about a religion.

First Amendment to the Constitution, written by James Madison to protect the rights of individuals from a large government (nicely ironic, yes?): "Religious and Political Freedom. Congress must not interfere with freedom of religion, speech or press, assembly, and petition. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or the press; or the rights of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

"An establishment of religion" in this amendment refers to an establishment supported by all taxpayers (by paying taxes, whether they are members or not) that promotes religion.

Public schools are paid for by public funds, and are a government institution, maintained by the federal government, which as previously stated, has no religious establishment, i.e. there is no state-supported religion.

Schoolchildren in said public schools are taught and required to say the Pledge of Allegiance, which states: "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, with liberty and justice for all."

The phrase "under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance in a time of fear of the "Godless Communists" in Russia, China, and Cuba during the Cold War, but mainly Russia.

Russia is no longer a threat to the United States.

Somebody mentioned September 11 earlier. Osama Bin Ladin is a Muslim extremist - he is not a "Godless Communist"

Every American citizen does not believe in God. Many do not believe in a religion. (My opinion, don't mark the following as "true" or "false") Somebody earlier said that God is true and real and it does not matter if one does not believe in him, because he is real. However, if I do not believe in God, then why would I accept that statement as being true, and not just brush it off as one (perfectly acceptable) belief?

We've (hopefully) moved beyond a lot of the terror of September 11 from two years ago - the economy is getting better, et all.

I hope I've proved two points in these statements: 1 - Stating that the United States is "under God" is unconstitutional, and everybody who must say it (or listen to it be stated) is being subjected to a religion supported by the federal government. 2 - If there were a need to feel like we were protecting our schoolchildren from the "Godless Communists" in the 1950s, that need has vanished. If there were a need to feel like we were protecting our schoolchildren against the Muslim Terrorists two years ago, keeping the phrase "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance does not do much against people who do believe in a god. Also, the time of fear and distrust has passed, and we have gotten over that road bump.

I see two solutions: 1 - The words "under God" should be removed from the Pledge of Allegiance. 2 - Schools should not require their students say the Pledge of Allegiance, nor should they have everybody stand and it be recited by those who choose to. If students wish to say the Pledge, they should be allowed to, but that should not take up class time, and the name of the Pledge should change, since having it be "The Pledge of Allegiance" gives it some authority.

Thank you.

-- ARNiemi (, November 10, 2003.

Aside the fact that I am a Christian, I am also an American. I love my country and though I am not in the military, I would, if need be, give my life for it. Our founder's founded this country on freedom, but if you study laws and principles that they lived by, it was also about God. I have no quarells with non- Christians and thier beliefs; however, if "In God We Trust" is what this nation was founded on, then that is what it should stay. One person wants to stand up and say, "How dare this country force me to pledge allegiance to God and country." Well, I say, how dare the government take away my right as a Christian and an American to pledge my devotion to God and to my country.

-- Jessica Spedale (, November 10, 2003.

1. I did not say that that right would be taken away. Please, say that you are an American under God. That right cannot be taken away under the First Amendment. 2. Frankly, I see "this nation was founded under..." as a loophole for people to overlook the fact that no matter what this nation was founded under, there is an Ammendment that says that the Pledge of Allegiance is unconstitutional. You're telling me that this nation was founded by men who believed in God (they were not all Christian; some were Deists), therefore we should all belive in God. This nation was also founded by slaveowners; therefore we should all own slaves.

-- ARNiemi (, November 10, 2003.

jessica jessica jessica - my dear - you're a little mixed up sweetheart, like ARN has stated, no one is trying to take away your right to worship whatever you want to- we are only wanting the same exact right to not worship - this country's government founders specifically state that it is NOT the government's job to assign religion (that's what the european government's were doing at the time- ie. the established protestant church of england) freedom to worship who you want also means freedom not to worship... these go hand in hand. to take away my right not to worship is exactly the same as taking away your right to worship... what is so hard to see about that?

that is why government is forbidden by the first admendment from establishing religion, to keep them from requiring you to worship (or not worship) in a particular fashion. not everyone worships your god. some want to worship nature, some worship god(s), some worship the stars,and yes... some don't worship. for the government to endorse one religious belief over another is a violation of the freedom (note the word freedom) of worship all those that don't want to worship that particular way.

I absolutely endorse YOUR freedom to worship, do you endorse the freedom of others to worship as they please (which includes freedom NOT to worship)? if you do, how can you support a government that sponsors a particular belief over another... what happens when the belief the government sponsors is no longer yours?

nobody is asking you not to say your own prayer... nobody is saying you can't say whatever you want about your god in a personal pledge...nobody is trying to take that freedom away.

what IS being said, is it is not the government's job to add to a national pledge, currency,or elsewhere reference to a particular religion that endorses YOUR god and not mine.

you've also made the mistake that so many do --- this government IS founded on religious freedom... not religion. there's a big difference

and definately not a particular religion.if that was the case... then the first admendment wouldn't exist and we'd all be protestants and living in england still.


-- T.Newsom (, November 11, 2003.

I think if we students are forced to say the pledge, then we should say under gods or under a god or not say it at all. I myself always cross my toes whenever I have to say the pledge. My mother, who is a Slovene by birth never says the pledge in public or crosses her hand across her heart for the pledge. She stands, but doesn't say the pledge. I myself think we are an egosentrical, paranoid society, that thinks america is the only good country on Earth. Americans are too narrow minded.

-- 13 year-old boy. (, November 19, 2003.

I think people should have a choice to say the pledge or not. It shouldn't be forced on them or it shouldn't be taken away.Not saying the pledge doesn't mean that you don't love this nation or that you aren't patriotic. To me being patriotic comes in other forms, not saying a chant to a symbolic piece of cloth.

-- Christa L. (, December 11, 2003.

public schools do still recite the pledge, even though it has been stated that students do not HAVE to say it, or even stand up for it as long as they sit in silence. of course, that does not mean that people will automatically accept it; i've been arguing with teachers about my right to remain seated during the pledge. and to that person who keeps talking about hammerhead sharks, maybe i don't want to be feed to a shark, ever think of that? maybe you should respect other peoples beliefs, ever think of that? come to think of it, do you ever think at all?

-- Audrey (, January 16, 2004.

i believe that saying the pledge is constitutional. why wouldn't it be? are two words going to kill you? NO! if you don't like it go away we don't need people in this country who don't like it we've got more important issues than listening to you cry over two words. go over to somalia where you can't even say you don't like the country.

-- john bruckheimer (, January 22, 2004.

ok john... then you won't mind if we change the pledge to read "one nation under satan" and then require you to say it... after all... it won't kill you to say that... it's just two little words. so tell me john... what is exactly is a more important issue today than FREEDOM of religion, the Bill of Rights and the Constitution that establishes that freedom that protects your (and my) life, liberty and pursuit of happiness...

i'd love to hear what you think is more important. no...really..tell me.

ignorance is not an excuse,you should instruct yourself on the constitution before you spout off. jeez.... -tnewsom

-- tnewsom (, January 23, 2004.

my answer to you is. why should i have to say that if you don't have to say the pledge. if you changed it why should i have to say it then. there really isn't a problem with you not saying the pledge its when you go and file lawsuits against schools because you get in trouble for not saying it. besides now that the laws have been changed to better suit your lives what the hell are you still complaining about.

-- john bruckheimer (, January 24, 2004.

my answer to you is. why should i have to say that if you don't have to say the pledge. if you changed it why should i have to say it then. there really isn't a problem with you not saying the pledge its when you go and file lawsuits against schools because you get in trouble for not saying it. besides now that the laws have been changed to better suit your lives what the hell are you still complaining about. are more important issues are schools getting closed down due to bankrupcy and us feeding iraqis instead of americans. now you've heard what i have to say . ARE YOU HAPPY!

-- john bruckheimer (, January 24, 2004.

the above to letters are the same i just submited one then changed it and sobmitted it again.

-- john bruckheimer (, January 24, 2004.

john, first, thanks for your response.... but MY point is... as a citizen of this united states... i should have the exact same rights as you and everyone else... those rights include having a national pledge that stands for what i believe in as much as one that you believe in. i AM a loyal american that loves this country... and thus... i WANT to say a national pledge to my country. that pledge needs to be to this country... which i believe in... not to a god.... which i don't. the purpose of church and prayer is for you to have the chance to pledge to your god... i am NOT advocating taking that right away from you. i am saying that the purpose of a pledge of allegience to MY country, should NOT include a pledge to YOUR god, any more than a pledge of allegience to YOUR country should include a pledge to MY god, atheism, satan...or whatever else is out there. the national pledge represents every citizen of this country(hence the word national)... not just the christians... and as such should represent a loyality to the united states... not YOUR god... again,that's why you go to church.

also, note, in it's present form, the pledge IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL. the as stated above... if you took the time to read the previous posts....the first admendment of the U.S.Constitution specifically states -word for word- that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" . (reread that very carefully before proceeding) now that it's established what the constitution specifically reads...

would you not agree that acknowledging a God of any form is same as establishing a religion? if not... look in the webster's dictionary under religion: the first definition there reads: "re li gion n. recognition of God as object of worship."

now that it is established that acknowledging a God of any form is same as establishing a religion....

Congress added the words "under God" to the national pledge by a law in 1954... by doing so, Congress made a law respecting an establishment of religion.... which is exactly what the first admendment of the constitution says congress can not do....

i now challenge you to logically debate that doesn't make the national pledge unconstitutional. (note the word logically...not emotionally)

now why is that important john? ... well, if our congress can violate the first admendment by supporting a religion... it sets a premise that the rest of the constitution can also be violated at will by congress. what if congress decides in a few years to make the protestant religion, or mormon religion, or satanism as the national religion (after all, now that the 1st admendment is proven no longer valid...congress can establish whatever religion they want to). you say it can't happen???... look at history. china has established athiesm as the national religion. spain established catholism during the spanish inquisition (12th & 13th centuries) , and executed anyone that didn't practice it- for the crime of heresay. england's protestant church was established as the national religion in the 15th century, catholics were killed and their lands were stolen by the church. my own ancestors were a wealthy catholic family in lancanshire england during this period. newsham hall, owned by them, was taken and that is why they came to america... for the freedom to worship...or not worship as they pleased. i'm not even going to go into detailed explaination about hitler and his warped association with the catholic church as his basis for exterminating all the jews.

our founding fathers understood the importance of keeping the government out of personnal religious decisions.. that's why the first admendment was the first to be added to the Constitution. if we don't stand by the Constitution...all the Constitution...then none of the Constitution is worth a plug nickel...and NONE of the rights gauranteed by our Constitution are going to remain valid. ever heard of the rights of freedom to bear arms, freedom of speech,freedom to a trial by jury, freedom from unresonable search and seizures...etc.? are you willing to give up those rights too?

the U.S. Constitution is a contract between the government and its citizens. like a contract, invalidate one part... the rest of the contract is worthless.

so... john... do you still stand by the fact those two little words are really nothing to worry about? think with your head... not your emotions.

i'd really love to hear what you think... because i have a really difficult time understanding how this can be so unimportant to so many. please enlighten me.


-- tnewsom (, January 25, 2004.

if congress has the power to violate your beliefs than don't they have the power to violate my beliefs to? yes and they more likely than not will because frankly we just put them in office then they can do whatever they want as they see it. personally it doesn't bother me that much that you don't say it just how much of a big deal you out it. if congress toke out those two words i would still say it. those two words don't necessarily mean you belie in god but i understand what you mean.

-- john bruckheimer (, January 25, 2004.

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