And how are things going with Sound Transit? number 2

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Whoever is experimenting with their HTML expertise on the original And how are things going with Sound Transit? thread, you apparently got the last word, quite literally. I'm not sure what you did, but it doesn't appear to have been deliberate. I couldn't figure out how to resurrect that thread, so I've started a new one. Whatever you did, please don't do it again. Play with your HTML editor, make nice colors and fonts, but don't knock off any more threads please.

the craigster

-- Craig Carson (craigcar@crosswinds.net), April 06, 2000

Answers

I AM sorry. I don't know what I did or exactly how I did it, but I'm gonna try to not do it again.

The point I was trying to make is this:

"UW President Richard McCormick said lawyers for both sides would be "working out the language of the agreement in the next couple of days." It must be ratified by both the Board of Regents and the Sound Transit board .

The understanding between the UW and transit officials -- two years in the making -- was necessary for Sound Transit to obtain financing from the Federal Transit Administration. The anticipated $450 million to $500 million in federal aid would help construct the initial segment as far as the U District."

This doesn't solve any of the problems with getting to Northgate, will increase the expense, and there's still no guarantee federal money will be forthcoming. With the downtown people now turning agianst it, the (rail)road is getting even bumpier.

Mark

-- Mark Stilson (mark842@hotmail.com), April 06, 2000.


No one will ever say that Mark isn't the eternal pessimist when it comes to Sound Transit. It reminds me of my dad when watching football. One team could be up by 35 points with 2 minutes to go in the 4th quarter and he'll still be saying that the other team could still pull it out.

No, the deal with the UW is not set in stone yet, but it's about as done as a deal as it's going to get. But as Craig has been fond of saying, if it makes you sleep at night, you can believe anything you want.

And again, the federal money isn't guaranteed, but do you honestly believe that there's much danger in not getting it now? The Feds extended the deadline JUST SO SOUND TRANSIT COULD MAKE THE DEADLINE. If that isn't an indication of who they want to give the money to I don't know what is.

And finally, no, the money isn't secured for the extension to Northgate, but plans are to not even begin construction on that segment until AT LEAST three years from now. The $500 million expected from the Feds will be over the current three years. With the project going full speed ahead now and the federal government practically falling over itself to give ST money, it's really not that hard to believe that they won't be there when ST looks for funding to do Northgate.

Mark and Craig have been gleefully reporting any and all bumps in the road for Sound Transit for a while now, but the simple fact of the matter is that ST survived those bumps and the road ahead is getting A LOT smoother now. Kinda makes it hard to make that "boondoggle" label stick to it in an effort to draw support for I-711.

-- Patrick (patrick1142@yahoo.com), April 07, 2000.


"The $500 million expected from the Feds will be over the current three years. With the project going full speed ahead now and the federal government practically falling over itself to give ST money, it's really not that hard to believe that they won't be there when ST looks for funding to do Northgate. " If this were the case, they might want to put it in their budget request, rather than the $35 million or so they have requested from Congress. Of course, Congress COULD give them more than they've asked for. It OFTEN does that.

Mark Stilson

http://www.fta.dot.gov/library/money/budget/pfy01ns.htm

-- Mark Stilson (mark842@hotmail.com), April 07, 2000.


Matt-

That's neat. But don't knock off the thread like you did last time! the craigster

-- (craigcar@crosswinds.net), April 07, 2000.


Patrick- Let's see, $500 million divided by three is about $167 million a year. That's a long way from $35 million. Come to think of it, they don't appear to be giving ANYONE more than $121 million a year, and that's for a minimum operating segment, not for the whole thing, and certainly not for an expansion.

Mark Stilson

-- (mark842@hotmail.com), April 07, 2000.



Kind of looks like about a billion and 60 million, split 39 ways (actually 38, after suckering New Jersey into building the first MOS, they are stiffing them on the current one.) That only comes to about $30 million a year per project. That doesn't look like they are likely to come up with $500 million for one project over three years, and it darn sure doesn't look like they are going to do much to get it to Northgate. Zowie makes this prediction: THE FEDS WILL PROVIDE A FAIRLY HEALTH CHUNK FOR THE FIRS MINIMAL OPERABLE SEGMENT, AND WE WON'T GET MORE THAN $30 MILLION IN ANY SUBSEQUENT YEAR. You heard it here first!

zowie

-- (zowie@hotmail.com), April 07, 2000.


Well it is quite interesting to see everyone's comments in bold, but I would have to agree with Craig that plain text would be preferable to you taking down another thread by your attempts at HTML Mark.

Sorry to ruin the fun boys, but that $35 million is an old number. From an article in the February 5th Seattle Times:

"President Bill Clinton has committed $35 million in his budget toward the design and construction of Sound Transit's light-rail system, moving the project a bit closer to fruition.

The budget item still must gain congressional approval. Local officials are confident not only that it will pass, but that the project may get more money in the process. "

So there's the already mentioned $35 million.

"Sound Transit's 21-mile system would connect SeaTac to Northgate with a combination of surface and underground rail lines. It would cost $1.5 billion. Local governments are hoping to get an agreement with the federal government by August for $500 million to finance part of the rail system. "

And there is the ADDITIONAL $500 million that Sound Transit is attempting to get by making the deadline this week.

Thanks for playing boys.

-- Patrick (patrick1142@yahoo.com), April 08, 2000.


"Zowie makes this prediction: THE FEDS WILL PROVIDE A FAIRLY HEALTH CHUNK FOR THE FIRS MINIMAL OPERABLE SEGMENT, AND WE WON'T GET MORE THAN $30 MILLION IN ANY SUBSEQUENT YEAR. You heard it here first!"

Thanks Zowie! Hey, who's your pick to win the NBA Finals? Whoever it is, remind me to bet HUGE against them!!

-- Patrick (patrick1142@yahoo.com), April 08, 2000.


"Your condescension would come across better if you could back it up with some good references, not just wishful thinking."

Excuse me? You're the one that tried to refute my reference with the wrong figures. There are two pots of money, yet you only knew of the one, and I'm supposed to bring up better references?

And let's talk about wishful thinking shall we? That $35 million you referenced? It's been altered several times at several points along the budget process. Each time the figure has gone UP. Again, that $500 million, no, not set yet. But AGAIN, the agency MOVED THE DEADLINE SO THAT SOUND TRANSIT COULD STILL GET IT.

Wishful thinking? More like reading the writing on the wall. You're the one that seems to be wishing against the obvious momentum that is building behind Sound Transit.

-- Patrick (patrick1142@yahoo.com), April 08, 2000.


"Excuse me? You're the one that tried to refute my reference with the wrong figures. There are two pots of money, yet you only knew of the one, and I'm supposed to bring up better references? "

Patrick-

These are the figures that were in the budget markup. These are the figures passed by the Senate for New Starts (which Sound Transit is). These are the figures that Al Gore announced on February fourth. (http://www.dot.gov/affairs/fta9900.htm). So if there's a second pot of money, tell Al Gore, because HE DOESN'T KNOW, and tell the US Department of Transportation, because THEY DON'T KNOW.

Now I won't deny that anything is possible. There may be a supplemental. But right now, that's all that's in the budget, and there are 11 other major New Start contenders for any additional money that is forthcoming. YOU claim there's a second pot of money. If it's there, just tell us where to find it. If you CAN'T tell us where to find it, what makes you so sure it's there?

Incidentally, if you look at the projects that ALREADY HAVE Full Funding Grant Agreements (FFGAs) Category IA above, None of them are getting more than $121 Million, and most are getting CONSIDERABLY less. If you look back to previous years, that's about the norm. That doesn't PROVE that LINK can't get $500 million in the next three years, but there's nothing in the funding history that would suggest that's likely to occur.

So quit blowing smoke at us Patrick. If you know something we don't about where this is allegedly hidden in the budget, toss us swine a few pearls of wisdom. If you don't, admit it and be done with it.

Mark St

-- Mark Stilson (mark842@hotmail.com), April 08, 2000.



To Mark: At least people like Patrick have a dream. And that's the beauty of Sound Transit, it offers the communities of South King County (e.g., Federal Way, Des Moines, Sea-Tac, Tukwila) something tangible, translating a "dream" into "reality".

The light rail will be very exciting for the communities. It will provide another transportation option, and the commuters will be extremely grateful.

The bottom line is that those in favor of road construction offer nothing for communities along the I-5 corridor in South King County. If you really want to derail Sound Transit, simply offer something better. Initiative 711 does not guarantee better alternatives than Sound Transit.

Perhaps someday, someone will post a description of a road project in South King County, detailing the cost, schedule, and, dare I say it, benefits. Until then, Sound Transit will roll merrily along.

-- Matthew M. Warren (mattinsky@msn.com), April 10, 2000.


"Until then, Sound Transit will roll merrily along. " The above is rolling merrily along? Looks more like lurching from one crisis to another.

"At least people like Patrick have a dream. " If you don't have logic with you, you can always revert to New Age clap-trap.

-- Mark Stilson (mark842@hotmail.com), April 10, 2000.


to Mark: You write: "If you don't have logic with you, you can always revert to New Age clap-trap."

Perhaps you're right. I'm not a big fan of surface rail myself. But, like I said before, until the pro-road side offers concrete (pun intended) alternatives, Sound Transit will chug (pun intended) forward.

Apparently, then, as far as South King County is concerned, the pro-road side doesn't have logic, either.

-- Matthew M. Warren (mattinsky@msn.com), April 10, 2000.


"Excuse me? You're the one that tried to refute my reference with the wrong figures. There are two pots of money, yet you only knew of the one, and I'm supposed to bring up better references? " I've seen some LAME grade school at recess-type come-backs in my life, Patrick, AND YOU KNOW WAT? THIS WAS ONE OF THEM!

zowie

-- (zowie@hotmail.com), April 12, 2000.


Still waiting for Patrick to come up with a reference for that "second pot" of money he CLAIMS Sound Transit is going to get. By the way, Patrick, here's the current supplemental request: http://w3.access.gpo.gov/usbudget/fy2001/pdf/sup.pdf

When I look in the transportation section I find more money for the Coast Guard and for the FAA, but nothing for Sound Transit. Got a reference for that second pot of money, Patrick? Or were you just blowing smoke?

-- (mark842@hotmail.com), April 20, 2000.



Lets see how well Patricks Prognostications are going. This is where Patrick predicted that the feds were just falling all over themselves to provide money for LINK, and that there was a second pot of money.
Well come on Patrick. Where is that second pot of money. So far we dont even get the $35 million budgeted. And since the total funding in this area is limited, what other competitor for this money are we allegedly going to take it away from?
 

Subcommittee approves $30 million for Link
A U.S. House subcommittee yesterday recommended spending $30 million 
on Sound Transit's Link light rail line in the next budget year. 
The Clinton administration had initially put a slightly higher 
figure, $35 million, in its budget for the 22-mile Link rail transit 
system from SeaTac to North Seattle. 
Sound Transit board Chairman Dave Earling, an Edmonds city 
councilman, did not seem dismayed by yesterday's news. 
"It's wonderful," he said. 
In addition to the $30 million, the transportation subcommittee also 
suggested spending $8.5 million on Sound Transit's commuter rail 
program and another $4 million on its ST Express bus service. 
Earling and Sound Transit staff members are optimistic the amount for 
light rail construction will be increased when it gets to the 
transportation subcommittee of the Senate Appropriations Committee. 
Washington state's two senators, Republican Slade Gorton and Democrat 
Patty Murray, are members of that committee.
http://www.seattle-pi.com/local/brfs0911.shtml

-- Mark Stilson (mark842@hotmail.com), May 09, 2000.

Mark:

Some folks actually read these threads to get information. If you want to screw them up try that will do it

Don't wish to troll. But you are.By the way, if you don't see blinking, you have IE; can't handle HTML 4; except on a MAC.

Best wishes,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), May 10, 2000.


that will do what?

And does it mean LINK is going to get more than $35 million next year (enough to pay 1/6th the SALES TAX on a $2 billion system)?

-- (mark842@hotmail.com), May 11, 2000.

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/rc00149.pdf Many Transit Projects Are Competing for Limited Federal Transit Dollars More state and local transit agencies than ever are competing for New Starts funds. However, the 14 ongoing projects and the 15 new projects proposed in the New Starts report and 2001 budget request would consume more than the total New Starts commitment authority provided by TEA- 21,9 if all of these new grant agreements were executed as proposed. If this were to occur, FTA would not be able to commit funds to any more projects during the last 2 years of TEA-21through fiscal years 2002 and 2003 even though many additional projects may soon be eligible for funding. According to FTA, it has already committed $4.1 billion of its total available authority of $8.4 billion to the 14 ongoing projects. After accounting for other requirements (such as the cost of providing project management oversight for the program), which are expected to total about $1.2 billion through 2003, about $3.1 billion remains for future grant agreements. The Departments fiscal year 2001 budget proposes $316 million for the 15 new projects. However, the $316 million requested for these new projects for 2001 will be only a down payment on what would amount to a total federal commitment of $3.9 billion if no changes were made to the current grant proposals. This $3.9 billion commitment is $800 million more than FTAs remaining commitment authority of $3.1 billion. Figure 2 shows FTAs limited commitment authority under TEA-21. FTA officials told us that the agency decided to propose exhausting the remaining authority in its fiscal year 2001 budget requestrather than withholding some authority for new projects in the remaining years of TEA-21 because New Starts funds have traditionally been provided to all eligible projects on a first-come, first-served basis. Furthermore, according to these officials, executing grant agreements for the 15 new projects allows them to move forward to begin construction. In addition to the 29 ongoing and proposed projects, TEA-21 identified more than 160 other projects as eligible for New Starts funds. According to FTA, as many as 40 of these projects could be ready to receive a grant agreement and begin construction in the next several years.

So Patrick, It would appear that the General Accounting Office doesnt know anything about this second pot of money that you say is there. Whats even worse, it appears that the feds have over- promised money that they dont have. Lets see, they say that they have $3.1 billion to spread amongst their 14 ongoing projects and 15 New Starts, and have about 40 other projects waiting in the wings who are also gonna be trying to dip into the pot as well. Now if they just covered the New Starts spreading the money around evenly, Seattles share (after administrative overhead) would be a little over $200 million total. Except, they are obligated to finish their commitments to the 14 existing FFGs, so you probably need to back out of that at least a third of the money, probably closer to half. Lets assume that its only a third. That would provide a potential for maybe.. $130 million through 2003, with either $30 or$35 million (depends upon who you believe) coming in 2001.

Well Patrick, if you know something about that second pot of money, now would be an excellent time to tell us.

-- Mark Stilson (mark842@hotmail.com), May 15, 2000.

Putting the best spin possible on a setback, the PI gives us this analysis of the CUT from DOTs programmed $35 million for LINK to $30 million. Only $5 million less than supporters requested would be bad enough, but in reality they wanted enough more to start construction planning from the UW to Northgate. $30 million wouldnt even cover the sales taxes for construction materials on that part of the route. Previous postings have already shown that DOT is running out of programmed budget authority in the out-years, as they struggle to get the maximum funding possible out BEFORE the November elections. Moreover, every dime that isnt provided this year will both decrease the LINK budget line in the out-years and add to other projects budget line in the out-years, tending to cast in stone the reduced payment amounts.

If Patrick really has that second pot of money somewhere, now would be a GREAT time to hand it over to LINK, they are starting to lose the federal budget war at this point.

http://www.seattle-pi.com/local/tran17.shtml
As approved by the committee, the critical light rail component 
of the project would get $30 million next year, ONLY $5 MILLION LESS 
THAN SUPPORTERS REQUESTED. Another $8 million was provided for a 
commuter rail line to link Seattle with Everett. Service is scheduled 
to begin in September and the money will be used largely to buy rail 
cars. The last part of the package is $4 million for a regional bus 
service linking Seattle with cities as Bellingham and Tacoma.


-- Mark Stilson (mark842@hotmail.com), May 17, 2000.

Security dispute upsets Sound Transit plans City-county disagreement cancels $2.1 million sheriffs' train proposal David Quigg; Thursday's Sound Transit meeting showed the agency's board is sharply split over how to keep crime off Sounder commuter trains. In a series of votes that pitted representatives of cities against representatives of counties, the board discarded the only working plan for providing security for the Lakewood-to-Everett line, which is set to start partial service in September. By a 9-7 margin, representatives of cities directed Sound Transit planners to throw the train system's security wide open to proposals from public agencies and private firms alike. Sound Transit executive director Bob White said he and his staff can do that fast enough to ensure security for Sounder stations and parking lots. He could only promise that the agency would do its best to solicit and evaluate proposals in time to put security officers aboard the trains themselves. The rejected plan - under development since 1998 by the sheriffs of Pierce, King and Snohomish counties - would have put sheriff's deputies aboard Sounder and private security officers in the stations and parking lots. But city representatives balked at the cost Thursday. The estimated $2.1 million yearly price tag for all security under the sheriffs' plan struck board member and Tacoma City Councilman Kevin Phelps as far too high. "It made no sense," he said after the meeting. Based on Sound Transit projections for 2004, the sheriffs' security plan would cost 72 cents per rider. That money should go toward providing more trains and more service, said board member and Sumner City Councilman Dave Enslow. But board member and King County Councilman Greg Nickels of West Seattle countered that a transit system does not need more trains if people are too scared to come aboard. "Once people perceive a transit system to be unsafe, they will stay away in droves," he said. When it comes to transit security, it is best to aim high, he said. Then, if expensive security proves to be overkill, Sound Transit always could ratchet it down, Nickels said.

72 cents a rider, just for security during the ride? Wow! I wonder how much the Gorge costs per patron for security during a rock concert. Anybody know?

-- Mark Stilson (mark842@hotmail.com), May 26, 2000.


Is Tacoma railroading Sounder?

Sound Transit accuses city of demanding unfairly high fees for use of its tracks

David Quigg;

When Tacoma-to-Seattle commuter trains start running in September, they won't come as often as Sound Transit promised, or even drop passengers where the agency hoped they would.

Daily round trips by Sounder trains will number two - not three. And the end of the line will be the Amtrak station - not Freighthouse Square.

For this, Sound Transit blames the City of Tacoma. Tacoma wants to charge 35 times the going rate to let commuter trains travel little more than a mile of city-owned rails, the agency says.

But Tacoma officials say that claim is based on a misleading, apples-to-oranges comparison. They complain that Sound Transit has not come close to offering adequate compensation for the growth-stunting effect Sounder traffic would have on the fledgling freight business of Tacoma Rail's Mountain Division - a city venture that exists purely to bankroll dreams of a tourist train to Mount Rainier.

Sound Transit's plans hinge on being able to use those rails. To reach Freighthouse Square, as promised, Sounder needs to be able to split off from its main tracks, owned and operated by the Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railroad. But it can't do that without an agreement with Tacoma.

And, Sound Transit says the BN tracks to the Amtrak station are too busy to handle any more than two Sounder trains a day.

Now, with the planned start of Sounder service a little more than three months away, Sound Transit and Tacoma are nowhere close to a deal.

"The gap is just huge," said Chris Bacha, Tacoma's assistant city attorney.

Specifically, the city wants Sound Transit to pay between $500,000 and $700,000 per year - compensation for actual and hypothetical lost freight business.

Sound Transit, on the other hand, wants to pay Tacoma yearly fees of about $21,000 - a number that's roughly equivalent to the per-mile fee it negotiated with Burlington Northern for the bulk of the track Sounder will ride.

The person standing in the vast no man's land between those numbers is Kevin Phelps - a member of both the Tacoma City Council and the Sound Transit board.

"I think, quite frankly, both parties - what they're proposing - is unreasonable," Phelps said.

But with understanding and persistence, Phelps believes the city and Sound Transit can bridge the divide.

New developments suggest Sound Transit does not share his faith. After months of keeping talk of the impasse behind the closed doors of official negotiations, the agency is now discussing it publicly.

Sound Transit spokesman Clarence Moriwaki said Tacoma's financial demands are "beyond any reasonable standards."

This is not unique to Tacoma, he said. All around Sound Transit's three-county territory, he said, "some folks look at Sound Transit as an endless deep pocket."

Because Sound Transit is working on a tight time line and its plans are common knowledge, Moriwaki compared negotiations such as those with Tacoma to "playing poker with people and they already know your hand."

Phelps acknowledged that could play some role in the city's high demands.

"If I'm honest, I would say I'm sure (city) staff is aware of what other cities have gotten," he said.

Bacha flatly denied the city is trying to tap Sound Transit to fund its long-planned Train to the Mountain. The city's aim is simply not to lose money by opening its rails to Sounder.

Bacha said Tacomans should not have to pay twice for the cost of building Sound Transit's system.

While Phelps shares some of Sound Transit's skepticism about the extent of the economic harm Sounder would cause, he expressed disappointment the agency is going public with its frustration over the impasse.

"Sound Transit is going to have to approach this totally differently than they are," he said. "Blaming it on local government isn't going to get it there."

Rather, he said Sound Transit needs to appreciate that the city's rail system does have economic value. It would not be unreasonable for Sound Transit to pay $13 million for track improvements so Tacoma Rail could divert much of its money-making freight away from the rails Sounder would use, he said.

Bacha touted another alternative: "The ideal solution would be for Sound Transit to build a parallel track on our city right of way, which we would let them do."

Moriwaki said Sound Transit is doing preliminary engineering work to see if that is even possible. After that, cost becomes the issue. Extra dollars spent getting Sounder to Freighthouse Square make it more difficult to keep promises to extend the line to Lakewood, he said.

Voters in Pierce, King and Snohomish counties approved the $4 billion initiative that created Sound Transit in 1996. Plans call for a regional system to include commuter trains, light rail, express buses and other transportation improvements.

The bulk of the funding is coming from local taxes, including a 0.4-cent sales tax and 0.3 percent vehicle license tax.

- - -

* Staff writer David Quigg covers King County government. Reach him at 206-467-9845 or david.quigg@mail. tribnet.com.

-- (mark842@hotmail.com), June 07, 2000.


Friday, June 9, 2000, 12:00 a.m. Pacific

$4.2 million in art budget is in dispute

by Susan Gilmore Seattle Times staff reporter

Apologetic Sound Transit officials have ordered a reassessment of how $4.2 million for artwork will be distributed along the light-rail system - after it was discovered that the initial plan earmarked far more money for North End stations than those in the South.

Plans for how the art money would be split among the 11 Seattle transit stations were detailed in a report issued by Sound Transit for the Regional Transit Authority in April.

When Lawrence Molloy, a member of the Mount Baker Community Club figured out that the North End stations would get more than twice as much money for art as those in the Rainier Valley, he fired off a memo to King County Councilman Greg Nickels.

Nickels, in turn, said the allocation was "unacceptable" and vowed to fix it.

The transit agency is apologizing. "This was the first cut," said executive director Bob White. "They got it wrong. They'll go back and make it right."

What happened, said White, is that the allocations in the report were based on a law that sets aside 1 percent of the budget for arts on every public project. Because the northern stations will be underground, they are much more expensive.

But the transit board has always felt that the 1 percent formula should be flexible, said White.

-- (mark842@hotmail.com), June 10, 2000.


Puyallup may be left at station Sound Transit trains due to start running Sept. 18, but redesigned depot won't be ready by then Mary Butler; Puyallup commuters might be left behind in September when Sounder trains begin to whisk South Sound commuters north. Sound Transit officials tentatively have scheduled Puyallup's $3.5 million station to open Nov. 1, a month and a half after the Tacoma- to-Seattle line is expected to begin running Sept. 18. That means Puyallup residents wanting to catch the train might have to go to Tacoma or Sumner until the city's platform is ready. The delay mostly is the result of last-minute design changes to the station, said Val Batey, Sound Transit project manager. The station's preliminary design didn't pass muster with a Puyallup citizens group that worked with the regional transit agency. "The budget was very limited, and the station design that was able to meet that budget was not meeting the expectations of the community," Batey said. "We had to find some money from cost savings elsewhere." Expanding the budget allowed the agency to change the design from a plain platform to a depot-like structure, which harkens to old- fashioned train stops, Batey said. The depot will include two 600-foot platforms with canopies, ticket vending machines, parking lots and transfer areas for access to Pierce Transit and Sound Transit buses. Another reason for the holdup, Batey said, was that Sound Transit wanted to wait until the station's site was ready for the depot's construction before starting even preliminary work. For example, she said, Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railroad still needs to complete track improvements. "We didn't want to give the contractor notice to proceed until everything was ready to go," she said. "We have to pay the contractor delay costs. So if we say to them, 'Sorry, you can't pour a platform this week because the railroad is out there finishing the tracks,' then they say, 'OK, that's going to cost you.'" The delay didn't surprise Puyallup residents, who have noticed that no buildings on the station site have been demolished. "I figure it will get done by 2001," said Ken Placek, owner of The Rose Restaurant, located across the street from the planned depot. Placek was only half-joking. He said he doesn't think people will accept the reasons for the delay. "I think people are going to look at this as another bunch of political b.s.," he said. Donna Whitney, office manager at Valley Packers, said she was disappointed the train station isn't opening on time. "I'm excited about the train," she said. "I've traveled back east to Washington, D.C., and you can go anywhere by train. It was so easy. Driving to Seattle is a nightmare, so I'm looking forward to getting on the train instead of driving." Of the eight stations to be built along the initial 40-mile Tacoma-to- Seattle Sounder line, Puyallup isn't the only station behind schedule: * Tacoma's station won't be completed until next year, so Sound Transit plans to operate temporarily out of the city's Amtrak station. Tacoma and Sound Transit also are in dispute over the annual charge for using tracks owned by Tacoma at the station's projected site. * Sumner's depot is under construction, but only the platform is expected to be ready in September. * In Kent, Sound Transit has lost a month of construction time because of delays in obtaining a construction permit. * The Tukwila station won't be built until next year. Within 10 years, the Puyallup station is expected to handle 400 boardings a day. At full operation, the station will provide access to 18 passenger trains per day: nine trains in the morning and nine in the evening. All permits needed to begin construction of the Puyallup platform are expected to be approved soon, said Steve Pilcher, Puyallup city planning manager. Sound Transit estimates 210 days, or about six months, for station construction. But the train might be able to begin stopping in Puyallup sooner than November if the platform is ready. "As long as we have platforms and a safe way for passengers to get onto trains, passengers can board," Batey said.


-- (mark842@hotmail.com), June 12, 2000.

Hey Patrick,

Still think things are going just fine?

A full light-rail route is out There's enough money for only part of it, Sound Transit says Friday, April 27, 2001 By CHRIS McGANN SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTER Sound Transit yesterday conceded that building its originally planned 21-mile light-rail route in this decade is impossible. "SeaTac to the University District is no longer a viable option by 2009," said Joni Earl, the agency's executive director. "I think the (Sound Transit) board knows that." But she said it's too soon to tell how the plan must change because of uncertainties about federal money. The original plan is out of reach because of a $190 million hit from suspended federal grants and changing federal policy. Earl's comments marked the first time Sound Transit management has said the agency can't fulfill the plan sold to voters in 1996. The Sound Move plan included a $1.7 billion light-rail line from SeaTac to Northeast 45th Street as well as express buses and a heavy-rail commuter line linking Pierce, King and Snohomish counties. Now the light-rail portion of the package is estimated to cost $4.2 billion -- more than double the 1996 ballot estimate. And the completion date, already pushed back from 2006 to 2009, may fall further behind schedule.


-- (mark842@hotmail.com), April 27, 2001.

Heck, even SOUNDER is starting to show signs of P*ss Poor management:

Tuesday, May 01, 2001 - 12:00 a.m. Pacific

Sound Transit soon to get dozens of cars it doesn't need

By Susan Kelleher Seattle Times staff reporter

Brand-new railroad cars purchased for Sound Transit's commuter-rail service will be used cars by the time Puget Sound riders board them years from now.

The agency has ordered dozens more cars and locomotives than it needs for its current level of "Sounder" commuter service, and is scrambling to lease them to other transit agencies until there's a local demand for them.

Two of the agency's locomotives have circulated already in Montreal and Vancouver, B.C., and if negotiations with a California agency are successful, San Francisco Giants fans will soon be whooping it up on Sounder cars to and from games at Pacific Bell Park.

Other transit agencies occasionally lease out spare cars, but transit officials across the country - and at Sound Transit - could not recall a situation where such a large number of new cars were being put on the market for lease.

"I don't know if anyone's been delayed to the point where we are, where we have this equipment sitting around," said Noel Peck, the program manager for Sounder operations who is charged with finding someone to lease the cars.

The agency has 26 cars and six locomotives in its inventory now. This fall, it will begin receiving 32 more cars and five more locomotives. That's dozens more vehicles than Sound Transit needs for at least the next 18 months.

"When we ordered all the equipment, it was early 1998, and (the decision) was based on the best data we had at the time," said Peck, adding that the agency could have excess cars for more than two years.

If the cars are not leased out, Sound Transit will have to try to get them each enough rail time to discover problems while they're still under warranty, a daunting prospect given the present level of service. Sound Transit also must pay to maintain the cars not leased out.

Sounder now runs four trains a day: two six-car trains to Seattle in the morning, and two six-car trains back to Tacoma at night. The agency also began special service recently to the Mariners' Sunday home games.

Sound Transit can't add more trains to the present schedule because first it must improve the tracks and signal systems and build sidetracks to allow additional Sounder trains to share the route with freight trains.

The prospect of millions of dollars worth of cars sitting idle while their warranties expire concerns the Federal Transit Administration (FTA), which monitors the use of federal funds in the project. FTA officials had hoped Sound Transit would negotiate an extended warranty based on actual use instead of time owned, according to FTA spokesman Bruce Frame.

Frame said that basing the warranty on actual use would give Sound Transit more time to test the cars as it expanded its service.

Sound Transit didn't do that. Instead of asking for a warranty based on actual use, Sound Transit asked only for an extension to the existing warranty for the rail vehicles that have already arrived.

No such arrangement has been made for the rail vehicles expected this fall. Paul Price, director of the Sounder commuter-rail program, said he was confident the warranties would not be a problem because the product was a good one.

Full service by '04 or '06

Sounder had planned to start commuter-rail service in December 1999 and had hoped to be running at full service - 69 rail vehicles, 30 trains every weekday - by 2003.

But funding problems and lengthy negotiations over access to tracks owned by Burlington Northern Santa Fe railroad and the city of Tacoma delayed the start of the project by nine months.

Price said the 82-mile project from Tacoma to Everett should be at full service by late 2004, but the agency's acting director said the project might not be finished until 2006.

The first order for cars and locomotives began arriving in 1999. That same year, the agency placed two more orders paying an average of $2.77 million for each locomotive and $1.95 million for each car.

Price said the purchases were part of the agency's plans to ramp up service quickly, but the last order, for 10 cars and five locomotives was placed in December 1999, when the project was already nine months behind schedule. Negotiations for access to track were not going smoothly, and voters had effectively cut millions from Sound Transit's commuter-rail budget by approving an initiative that replaced the state's motor-vehicle excise tax with a flat $30 annual fee.

At the time, Sound Transit staff urged the agency's board of directors to order the additional cars anyway to save up to $5 million it would cost to stop and restart the production line for the cars. Price said he was comfortable with the order because his staff had determined that there was a good market for the cars if they were forced to sell them.

Sound Transit has since tried to delay the new cars for as long as possible, relinquishing its place in the production line to three other transit agencies buying the same cars as Sounder. But there's no one else in line for cars with Sound Transit's specifications.

Sound Transit officials put a positive face on the situation, saying that the agency saved millions by ordering the cars in bulk. Price also noted that Sound Transit isn't the only agency to have run into problems with idle equipment.

"Any rail new-start in the last 10 years is going to have a certain amount of lag between receipt of equipment and the start of service," Price said.

Unlike other agencies, he said, Sound Transit is looking for opportunities to save money by collecting rent from other agencies and charging them with maintaining the vehicles until they are put into regular service at Sound Transit.

But Bill Vantuono, editor of Railway Age, a top industry publication, said Sound Transit's predicament was far from common. More typically, he said, agencies are waiting for cars to be delivered.

"It sounds like their expansion plans are not moving along as rapidly as they'd like them to," he said.

Critics say they doubt that Sounder will ever ramp up to full service. The projected budget shortfall for the Everett-Seattle line is at least $46 million, and the Seattle-Tacoma line is costing $191 million more than expected.

Problems for lessees

Price said he was optimistic about the project, and that there was a large amount of interest in the cars from other agencies, particularly in California.

Unfortunately, though, there may not be a lot of money.

"The hardest thing to find right now is operating money," said Brian Schmidt, director of rail services for the transit agency serving Stockton, Calif. State and federal money is available for purchasing cars but not for leasing, which he said was considered an operating cost.

"That's a dilemma we're all in right now," he said. "I can buy cars, but I can't staff the train because I don't have the operating money."

Vantuono said the problem was common to agencies, although the FTA has left some loopholes that might allow agencies to treat lease costs as capital costs.

Peck said agencies that expressed interest in the cars hoped to have them for a year or more.

No price has been established for renting out the cars or locomotives. But Peck said the locomotive rentals brought in $15,000 a month for one of them, and $2,000 a month for the other.

The $15,000 Montreal deal was for six months, and the $2,000 a month came from a one-year arrangement in Vancouver, B.C., that called for $9,000 a month if the locomotive was used and $2,000 a month if it was not. The railroad cars would probably rent for less than the locomotives.

Any lease arrangements would have to be approved by the Sound Transit board and the Federal Transit Administration.

Peck said he wanted to ensure the cars were returned to Sound Transit in good condition. He is recommending that anyone who leases a car for a year be automatically required to reupholster and recarpet it before it is returned to Sound Transit.

"We don't even have them here," he said, "so I don't know how it will pan out."



-- (mark842@hotmail.com), May 01, 2001.

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