(SF) doublecross21greenspun.com : LUSENET : Team SF : One Thread |
nighttrain has made some progress with double21. a line of communication has been established and bill seems willing to discuss the matter further (with rick, at least). i suggest that we stay out of rick's way for a little while... let him play ball.
-- Anonymous, April 06, 2000
How did you do? I know it wasn't team play, but still interested in keeping up with how the others are doing. As a matter of policy, should we continue to post here when we play even if not with team br?
-- Anonymous, April 06, 2000
i lost about 1500cad over seven hours of play.as a matter of policy, i see no reason to require posting of personal play here (though i'm happy enough to do so). can anyone think of why such postings should be required?
-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000
I just meant that we might want to keep each other posted on how we are doing; trip reports etc, whether with team br or not. PV
-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000
it was a good question, and i am seriously soliciting opinions. IMO it should be up to each individual as to whether or not he/she wants to share personal trip reports with the rest of us; i see no reason to require it... but that doesn't mean there aren't any.if a player has team cash on them, and then goes off and plays on their own... that could raise some eyebrows, and we should all probably be warned in advance that such activity is taking place so that there is no question in team-mates' minds as to who's money is in play.
other opinions?
-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000
I personally have put in play for other groups and just as I keep information regarding our particular group here without discussing it elsewhere, I extend the same respect to the other groups I might work with.To avoid any confusion, whenever I would play for our group here, I would information of my plans would be known. If I happen to be somewhere and one of you saw me with a pile of purples and blacks (not lately) unless I posted that I'd be playing, chances are my play at that time would be outside of this group. In most cases when I am in a gaming locale, I only am playing to one bank.
Regards, Rick
-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000
I don't see any reson not to post personal results. It seems like it would be nice to keep all blackjack play out in the open, but I am not set on that opinion.By the way, I played Barona last weekend with my own money.
SD,H17,DAS,LS $25 min I spread $25-$50 2.25 hours, +$250
David
-- Anonymous, April 08, 2000
David,>I don't see any reson not to post personal results. It seems like it >would be nice to keep all blackjack play out in the open, but I am >not set on that opinion.
Here's what I consider a good enough reason for me at least:
I don't think it is fair to ask me to betray the confidence which I've agreed to with others. While I don't depend on BJ winnings for income, there are others who do, and I must respect this of such individuals. I receive invitations to participate in a play with others, whether it be from an individual or another team. If I happen to be playing with others at a particular venue, or on a specific promotion and shared the results, etc. here, this would be a breach of confidentiality. Taking it a step or two further, knowing your affiliation with BJ21, if something ever showed up there and were traced back to me, my reputation wouldn't be worth table minimum at Slots R Fun.
If I'm the only one not comfortable with this, then I'll step off the board. It wouldn't be fair for me to read everyone else's stuff and not share mine.
Regards, Rick
-- Anonymous, April 08, 2000
Rob,I work for bj21.com. I am obviously a threat to anyone on this board because since I work for bj21.com that automatically means that I will blab any and all information to the entire world through my website. I pose an extreme danger to anyone's credibility and/or career as a blackjack player. Please revoke my access to this board before any such thing happens.
Regards,
David
-- Anonymous, April 09, 2000
David,As you probably know better than anyone here, it is very easy to misinterpret what you read from someone's posting on this or any internet bulletin board. I'm sure that in your current position you read alot of crap from people who write stuff they would never say if there were face-to-face with a live person. I'm very novice at this internet stuff, but when I do write something, I ALWAYS attempt to proofread what I've written and ask myself "if the recipient of this were in front of me, how would it come across if I were to say this to his/her face?" I'm far from perfect at this, as at times I can be misread. I believe this is the case in respect to my previous message where I expressed concerns about divulging information (e.g.; results on outside play). Are you gonna walk away on the grounds that you think I may have hurt your feelings?
First off, YES, I am "concerned" of your affiliations, and as a result I am careful what I elect to divulge to you in regard to matters outside of this group. That is it! That does not mean I am feel threatened of your presence here. I simply keep my lips sealed on certain matters, which are not of yours or any others concerns. You shouldn't take this personal, as it is part of the business, and if you haven't already encountered such reactions, you can be rest assured you will in the future. For example, I interact with some high-level players, some of whom are OFTEN trying to fish for information. They ask,and I tell them "None of your @#$% business" and we move on to the next topic. Noone takes it personal. Alot of judgment is made on who needs to know what, and most people basically just "don't ask questions." As I mentioned before this business is quite serious to some folks and I have to respect their confidence. This cloak and dagger, secrecy and paranoia goes with the territory. Get used to it!
If anything you should be one of the last persons to step down from this group. You and Rob started this and you both should finish what you started come "hell or high water." You both put an enormous amount of work into this project and I am confident you can personally bring the bank back up to a respectable level if you could find the time to get out there and play. You've done it before.
So David, in summary, I simply will not divulge to you things that do not concern THIS group. I am sorry if that hurts your feelings, as that is not my intent. Also note, attempting to just walk away from a project you started isn't the answer. I'd rather step away from things myself, as I feel the group can benefit more from your play and overall presence than mine. You obviously now have access to information from outside sources and perhaps could contribute such information here to benefit your teammates. Or if you are have an obligation for confidentiality, perhaps just get some team money and go off and take advantage of a "hot tip." That way you would not be breaching any confidence, but using the info yourself (on our behalf). At the present time I do not have any availability to put in play for this group. On that note, my access to this board should in all fairness be pulled and that solves things. As a pure "investor only" I could just find out things from Rob directly on a "need-to-know" basis.
I don't think the folks here are going to let you walk away from here that easily!!!! So the question is, when are you available to play next????
If there is something more personal involved here, which I may not be reading into, David, then it's best you email me directly to discuss the matter. Initially my intent was to email you directly in response to your previous message, but since there is a chance I may be looking like "the bad guy" causing your walking from the team, I felt obliged to clarify things for the group as well.
Regards, Rick
-- Anonymous, April 09, 2000
Rick:Yes, my statements of leaving were my using sarcasm to get my point across. My main reason for not wanting to play in Vegas is that I worked hard to have a certain rapport at my favorite haunts. I feel it would be damning to me to go play at the current levels when they were used to seeing me playing at the prior levels. I have a strong presence when I put my act on, and I make my presence known. I went to several places yesterday to "take a look around" and I was told, "Hi there David (or Patrick in some places)! How's the pizza business going?" by several different people at different casinos.
I think that your points are reasonable. If we do not want to disclose personal results then that is ok I suppose. Here's what I am thinking: say our bank is what we want it to be and you have $30,000 of team money on you. You go and play on another team's money, win or lose there could be some hard feelings. It would seem best to keep things on the up and up in many cases. Perhaps even a "I am playing on other money this trip." statement prior to the fact would be worth it. No details about who, when, why, or how. Or perhaps simply getting rid of any "on-hand" team money prior to other play would be sufficient with no statements made at all.
The thing is, if we don't trust each other with information, then what are we doing trusting each other with our money?
Stanford Wong told me a story of a friend he had who played on Uston's team. Wong said his friend was playing in Tahoe, but Uston's flight was delayed so the guy went ahead and started playing. Uston got there about 4 hours later. When Kenny Uston arrived in Tahoe he said to this other person, "How's it going? You up or down?" The guy told Kenny, "I'm stuck $700." So Uston then told him, "OK, the team play starts now. Your $700 was on your own money." Wong says Uston always twisted things to his own benefit.
As for sharing your info on bj21... I must say I am somewhat offended. I like you a lot Rick, and have a great deal of admiration and respect for you, but I just don't get your bias and mistrust. I am not going to share any of these details with anyone. For one thing, sharing of personal information wouldn't earn me any points with Wong, but that's not even the main reason. I just don't work that way. Also, there are several things that I haven't even put on the secure page (a new page that is starting to work out very well for us), such as the Rio shuffle. I do not see any need to share that on the secure page right now, even though some Green Belter in the past didn't mind blabbing about it to the entire world.
It is ridiculous for us to have this Snyder vs. Wong dichotomy, since Snyder and Wong themselves do not feel that way. I think Arnold's great and Wong's great. The boards do somewhat have different points of focus, but having your handle on bj21 is not going to ruin your career if you know what you're doing and shit man, use a different handle. WHo really gives a hit about a handle? From home, I use a proxy server which is very easy to set up in Explorer and cause no loss of speed. My IP address is never available for others to see in any way shape or form, no matter where on the Web I happen to be.
If I posted, "I was at Mirage yesterday, playing double deck, between the hours of 3pm and 4pm. I am in my late 20s. I was spreading $25-$200. My name is David, but my player's card is John Smith. I won $2500 and then I went and had dinner at Mikado's," then I guess I would get what I deserved.
I have not seen any tendency for people who post frequently on bj21 to get barred any more quickly than the "norm." Personally, I think that there is no diference technologically speaking. I think some people at times have a lack of discretion when revealing information about themselves. That's their problem. If someone reveals information about someone else, Stanford or I will remove that post as soon as we find out about it. We do normally find out very quickly because people will email us, "David, take a look at this post on such-and-such page."
I asked DD' how many places he has been barred from. He said "about 60 casinos. More barrings if you count repeat visits." Actually, I have to admire him because he makes a lot of money from BJ and keeps coming back for more. He gets a new name, ID, and then gets out there and rams and jams yellow chips with no cover. There is something to be said for this type of play, but it is not for everyone. I honestly think his playing style has led to his barrings much more than his activity on bj21. It has also made him a lot of dough.
By the way, I played single deck with Frank B at Sam's Town earlier today and won $10. I did happen to mention to Frank that I have met you, but that is simply because you had mentioned to me that you had met him before. I have complete faith in Frank's integrity. I am certain there is nothing to be concerned about there, and I did not mention your real name, profession, etc...
By the way, I was very impressed with the single deck game at Sam's Town. I did not spread wildly. I only spread $10 to $40, but the dealer dealt deep (at least 65% pen every time) and there was no evidence of preferential shuffling. Frank spread quite a bit more in the same game and the dealer still didn't flinch. I think I missed out by not playing that game more frequently when I lived there.
Regards,
David
-- Anonymous, April 09, 2000
In my opinion, personal results means results of play on your own money, not play for other teams. I would not want anyone to divulge information that they consider to be confidential. I was just thinking of a way to keep up with each other until the br is big enough for us all to play as a team again. A simple "I've been playing for another team for a while" would be info enough.
-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000