Nikon N80: A Quick Look

greenspun.com : LUSENET : Camera Equipment : One Thread

Due to an odd combination of circumstances tonight, I got a chance to spend half an hour playing with the new Nikon N80 (serial # 2000125). I'll cut right to the chase here, the N80 is going to be a big success for Nikon. The ergonomics are superb and the control layout is logical and intuitive. The impression is of a baby F100, with much of the same layout, but not the same build quality. Some of the controls seemed on the small side and looked like they might not hold up well to heavy use, but my impression might have been influenced by the lightness of the body. I suspect it will hold up to all but the heaviest use. The camera fits into the hand nicely and feels light, but solid. The polycarbonate shell is nicely textured to resemble the finish on the F100.

The viewfinder is not quite as bright as the F100, and has a slightly warm tint. The designated AF spot is thickly outlined in black and also flashes in red, a nice combination of the F5 and F100. It may turn out to be too intrusive for some users, but my initial impression was good. Eye relief was excellent and even with my glasses I could see the entire finder including the data display. One characteristic that immediately struck me was the incredible quietness of the camera. The N80 just might be the quietist Nikon SLR ever made. The coolest feature? Definitely the on-demand grid lines in the finder. It's a kick to watch those grid lines appear and disappear in the finder. It's only slightly disappointing that this feature must be accessed through a custom function. Other great features are the separate controls for flash and ambient exposure compensation. They should make balancing natural light and flash a breeze. I'd love to see these separate controls on all Nikon's cameras.

The focusing was quick and sure, not as fast as the F100 or F5, but with very little hunting. This is big step up from both the autofocus systems of the N70 and N90s

The N80 can almost be considered as the "anti-FM2n". A lightweight body, loaded with the latest arsenal of Nikon's camera technology compared with the Spartan simplicity of the dense FM2n. The N80 directly addresses the weaknesses of the N70 and combines Nikon's latest technology for autofocus, exposure, flash, and ergonomics in a very affordable package.

Barry Schmetter

-- Barry Schmetter (bschmett@my-deja.com), April 04, 2000

Answers

Barry, did Nikon explain how they cut so much weight out? The pictures I've seen do show a metal lensmount. I just hope that the prism isn't plastic. I also hope that the lack of meter support for CPU-less lenses means that Nikon will finally sell TCs and extension tubes with CPU contacts.

-- Geoffrey S. Kane (grendel@nauticom.net), April 05, 2000.

It's a good sign that it was quiet, but how was the mirror/shutter vibration? The F100 is very good down to 1/30 sec. with the counter balancer, but below that the balancer is a out of sync and there is a lateral kick to the body. I'm really looking to the N80 to be a second AF body to my F100.

-- Bruce Rubenstein (brubenstein@lucent.com), April 05, 2000.

I can't really say where they shaved off the weight, but I would guess there is more plastic and less metal. I don't think they've gone to a pentamirror in place of a pentaprism, but I have no confirmation on this. I attributed the slightly dimmer finder to the LCD focusing screen, but don't know for sure. Because of the quietness, I'd be willing to bet that the shutter and mirror are very well damped. Noise equates with energy being expended (inefficiently), so I'm hopeful.

-- Barry Schmetter (bschmett@my-deja.com), April 05, 2000.

Will Nikon AI lenses work with the F80?

-- Ronald R. Gregorio (rongregorio@hotmail.com), May 09, 2000.

No metering, but otherwise yes.

-- Chuck Fan (chaohui@msn.com), May 10, 2000.


I've heard that the N80 does not have mirror lockup, but does it have a mirror prefire when using the self-timer? I noticed that a custom function sets the self-timer to as low as 2 seconds. I haven't seen one yet to try it out.

-- Kurt Olender (olender@ezlink.com), May 15, 2000.

Unlikely. F100's 2 second self-timer does not pre-fire the mirror. Nikon is unlikely to allow the N80 to show up the F100 in any serious capability.

-- Chuck (chaohui@msn.com), May 15, 2000.

The D1 does have mirror pre-fire with self timer. I wouldn't expect to see it on the N80.

-- Geoffrey S. Kane (grendel@nauticom.net), May 16, 2000.

Basically Nikon has just caught up with the Canon EOS 100 and A2...two 7 or 8 year-old models with the major features of the N80.

I am a Nikon user but this is rediculous. I've been using my hardy old N8008s all this time because I did not want to go for the N70 (too fiddly) and the N90S needed a $250 back in order to get auto-bracketing which was included by the way on both Canon bodies I mentioned. I would have swtiched to Canon but for some great Nikon lenses.

N80? About bloody time! Now all it needs is some good, hands-on reports and I'll consider buying it.

-- Bart Aldrich (gba-opus@home.com), May 16, 2000.


Bart, Nikon's flash technology in your N8008 is still as good as the most recent Canons. I don't think it's fair to say that Nikon has just caught up.

-- Jim MacKenzie (photojim@yahoo.com), May 18, 2000.


Flash? Yes it is great. And I use it rarely. Now I've just heard that the new N80 is quite noisy while focusing with some lenses. Since I was planning on using it primarily with my f/2.8 80-200 I can only imagine....! Then add that Nikon is not importing the full data back version (w/exposure recording between frames) N80S to the States and once again Nikon doesn't quite come through all the way.

-- Bart (gba-opus@home.com), May 20, 2000.

OK, here is the review after playing with the new toy for 48 hours: The N80 is best described as the baby F100. This is not to say that it can substitute for the F100, just that it has similar layout, controls, functionality as the F100 and one can easily transition from one to another without skipping a beat.

The camera is much smaller than the F100. After having been accustomed to F100's beefier grip and heftier weight, I initially felt the N80 to be too small for my medium sized hands. But after handling the N80 for a couple of days, I've adapted and the N80 now feels as comfortable as a glove in my hands, with one exception: The height of the body is a good half inch less then the F100. So when I work the thumb dial, the lower edge of the camera body presses uncomfortably against the palm. As a result, I think the battery pack, which would increase the height of the body, is a very desirable ergonomic addition.

The focus with AF-S lens in normal light is very fast. Not quite as fast as the F100, but the difference is slim. I had to give it a number of tries to convince myself it wasn't just my imagination. Moreover, like the F100, the focus movement begins immediately as the shutter button is pressed. This works psychologically to makes the camera feels much faster than, say the Elan IIE or EOS-3, which waits a split second before moving the lens. But I doubt it actually as fast as the EOS-3.

With screw-driver AF lenses the focus speed is disappointing. Let's just say it's nowhere as fast as the F100 or the N90s. If faster focus with non-AFS lens is what you are looking for, try the N90s or F100. Not only is speed low, the noise level of the internal focus motor is a good deal louder then the F100, louder even than the N90s.

In dim light, the focus is slower than the F100 and shows a disconcerting hesitation when trying to focus on a difficult subject. If the camera fails on the first try, it sometimes waits for about 1/2 second as if thinking it over, than adjusts the focus by one clicking movement, stops, thinks about it some more, and click again. This is very disconcerting. In similar situation, if the F100 fails to lock on during the first try, it would rapidly narrow down the focus range with a quick series of clicking movements, and usually acheives focus in about 1/2 second.

The on-demand grid and the selected focus cell can be highlighted in two different ways: either electro-chromically (black) as in the F5, or LED illuminated (red) as in the F100. However, the illumination features is far too dim for majority of circumstances. I have to turn out the light, wait for my eyes to become dark adjusted before I could see the very faint red illumination for the grid and selected focus cell.

The electro-chromic focus cell high light is nice. Once power is on, the selected focus cell is always highlighted. I find this to be better than the F100 arrangement, where the selected focus cell is only illuminated when shutter button is half pressed or the focus selector is pressed.

The control layout is generally very good. The exposure-mode selection dial on the lefthand side, which also accesses ISO/DX and Custom function, is an significant improvement over the separate mode, custom, and ISO buttons of the F100. However, the design of the combined meter-mode/AF-lock/AE-lock/AF-start control is poorly thought out. Not all of these functions are simultaneously available. Once must use CF-11 to choose either AE-L or AF-start. The two can't be done at the same time. The meter mode collar around the switch is also small, stiff and fiddly to turn.

The builtin lamp that serves as red eye lamp, focus assist, and self timer warning is a stupid idea. The lamp is intensely bright and thoroughly annoying. It is also situated too close to the lens so that bigger lenses like the 28-70f/2.8 blocks the light of the lamp and prevents the effective AF assistance despite the output of the lamp. I have it permanently turned off via CF-18.

Overall, I like the camera. I think it is the best midlevel camera currently available. Normally, I would recommend it. However, with the recent drop in the price of older high end models like the N90s, EOS A2E, Pentax PZ-1P and Minolta 800si, I think this camera is somewhat overpriced.

-- chuck (chaohui@msn.com), May 20, 2000.


I rest my case. I'm either staying put with my N8008S, which, except for its slower AF drive, might be better than the the N70, N90 or N80, or switching to Canon. I know its built better than 2 of the 3. The F100.... is gorgeous. But it pains me to no end that I'd be falling right into Nikon's marketing ploy of making everything less than a full pro camera body and less than $1200 not quite complete for an advanced amateur. I will stll take a look at the N80.... I mean a an old A2E has it all..and had it all all this time I was waiting for Nikon to get off the pot. Its possible that I may sell everything but the N8008S and one lens and switch to Canon anyway!

-- Bart (gba-opus@home.com), May 20, 2000.

Bart:

If you are saying my critism of the N80 made your case, I don't see how it could have done so. Virturally all my critisms were made against the standards of the F100, not the N8008. The noise level of the N80 is compareble to the N90 and N8008, yet you didn't seem to think those camera excessively loud. If we were to draw a scale from N8008s to the F100, N80 would be 90% of the way to the F100 in terms of functionality and ergonomics. It may not be as quite as bomb proof as the F100, but you are compensated with 60% cost reduction and 9 ounce weight loss. Unless you really pine for the 1/8000 shutter and 1/250 sync, it seems N80 is in every other way a major step up from your N8008.

-- Chuck (chaohui@msn.com), May 21, 2000.


Well, let's see...you said you liked the thing. Then went on to say:

1-the AF speed was disappointing 2-AF hesitates in low light 3-the illumination features for on-demand grid and select focus are too dim 4-AF/AE controls are poorly thought out 5-built-in lamp for focus assist and red-eye is a stupid idea 6-AF is noisy 7-needs the battery pack to feel comfortable in the hnad...another $100+ 7-"it's overpriced compared to... N90S, A2E,PZ-1P and 800si"

Sounds great! Not to mention that you did make my point that this thing, as far as value-for-money, has not even caught up with a very old Canon A2E. Actually it doesn't even sound like an improvement (especially the AF) over my friend's 5 year-old and then $300+ EOS100.

Not very convincing. I know we Nikon people are devoted which tranaltes to we like the solid build and/or are stuck with a lot of pricey lenses, some pricey pro-body options to get what Canon offers and has offered for some time at better prices.

-- Bart (gba-opus@home.com), May 22, 2000.



Chuck- I also am not thrilled with it being as noisy as my old 8008S! That and the slower AF were the only two reasons I was waiting for and looking at the N80. How come everything Canon makes is silent and so many Nikons are too intrusive to grab candids w/o alerting your subjects?

-- Bart (gba-opus@home.com), May 22, 2000.

Bart, there certainly is nothing wrong with deciding that Canon makes the SLR the better meets your needs. Nor is it wrong if the preferred Canon is a few years old. But please don't imply that Nikon is still playing catch-up.

-- Geoffrey S. Kane (grendel@nauticom.net), May 22, 2000.

Why not? If Nikon are only interested in excelling with pro-level cameras that's fine....the rest of us can move on. I think sales have and will prove who does the best job in the mid-range. I have not yet handled the N80 myself but with four very fine Nikon lenses, believe me, I will give it the benefit of the doubt. It's just frustrating to wait and wait and then....well, we'll see. Actually, at under $700, the N90S is looking better and better lately.

-- Bart (gba-opus@home.com), May 23, 2000.

I just got a F80 two week ago. So soon the back control for focus point breaks and falls off. I sent it back for replacement. The new body is good and the focus control does not break. I read some articles on the internet about some trouble and decide to test myself. With my 50mm f1.4 lens at max aperture it actually moved the aperture blade and stops down with DOF preview. @#(&*$!! faulty camera. I went back to the stores and tried it on not one byt SIX other F80 in the store. All the same problem.. I also hear about autofocus going wrong with long zoom lenses but I have not tried this. Anyway, I am writing a official complaint to Nikon about this and sticking with my F50 (yes, laugh you people!!!)

Why is Nikon screwing us like this? I see my camera is made in Thailand. It is absolutely poor quality control by Nikon to make faulty stuff.

-- Ronaldo Rossi (r.rossi@gmde.it), August 21, 2000.


I have a love hate relation with this camera - originaly just wanted a point and shoot AF SLR to replace my Canon FD outfit and after a bit of deliberation I got an F70 with 28-105 lens. When the F80 came out I got one on the basis that the AF would be quicker as it was a newer model - wrong - it's slower! How could Nikon do this??? It's not all bad - the control layout is much better. I bought a S/H Canon EOS 300/Rebel 2000 the other week - it's AF performance leaves the F80 fo dust and it's standard 28-80 lens is sharper than the 28- 105 Nikon! - but the exposure accuracy is not half as good and infuriatingly the AF lock also locks the exposure - a realy usless feature with multipattern metering. So I'm back to using the Nikon again - with manual focus!! When they bring out the F80s/2/e or whatever they call it I hope they get the AF sorted to make it competitive with Canon.

-- John Griffin (john@griffinphoto.u-net.com), April 30, 2001.

I'm 16 years old and I got an N60 two years ago. I really got into photography and began to outgrow the camera. Well I'm looking for an upgrade but don't have the money to get a pro camera. It will be a stretch for me to get the N80 and after reading all of the commentary on it, I don't really know what to think. It looks to me that the complaints are petty and, despite the drawbacks, the camera would be an extreme upgrade from the N60. I just wanted to get some advice if anyone would like to say something

-- Jason Batten (godfear77@hotmail.com), June 20, 2001.

I have owned many Nikons over the last 25 years, from an original Nikon F, to EM's FM's FE's, F4's and several "consumer" level Nikons along the way. I just sold my N70 and F4s..technology marches on. Recently I purchased a new N80, and will also purchase a F100 soon. The reasons I bought the N80 were very specific:

1. IT'S A SMALL CAMERA - I carry it with me along with a couple of lenses everywhere I go. I have found it light to carry without looking or feeling cheap. The finish on this camera is much better than the N70's. Instead of the hard plastic, it has a more pebbly rubber feel. I can tell that it will not scratch as easily as my N70 did. I'm getting some pretty impressive sunsets with this camera!

2. ELECTRONIC DEPTH OF FIELD PREVIEW BUTTON - I do a lot of close-up photography using my Micro Nikkor 60mm f2.8 AF. I always had to use the F4s to do the macro stuff, since it has a depth of field preview button where the N70 didn't. The weight of the F4s was pretty hard to deal with down in the forest dirt. The N80 is not too heavy, nor is it too light. I like the shutter very much, since it seems balanced and quiet. I do not have problems with camera shake unless I am really pushing the edge. I have been able to handhold the N80 down to 1/8th of a second by bracing against objects, with suprisingly good results.

3. BUILT-IN FLASH - I know the N80 only has a guide number of 39 with 100 ISO film, but I find it just right for doing flash fill in the sunshine. I have used it on people, and plants with good results. The 3D Multi-Sensor Flash on the N80 is amazingly good at balancing the available light with the flash output. I find that, even with the flash up close, the subjects face is balanced well with the surrounding area. I have yet to see a burned out subject, even in a backlit situation. If you do a little research on the N80's flash metering system, you will find an amazing thing. The on-camera flash fires a series of "monitor pre-flashes" before firing the main flash pulse. The human eye cannot see the pre-flashes, it just looks like one flash pulse. But...during these preflashes, the meter is examining the reflection from the different zones of the back of the shutter. If a certain zone is reflecting almost no light, or too much light, it ignores that zone. You subject will then be exposed properly, even if the background is very dark, or highly reflective. The 3D Multi Sensor flash also works with several of the higher end Nikon flash units, such as the SB-27 and 28.

4. IT'S A REAL NIKON - Snoot factor. Lot's of lenses. These new lenses are incredibly sharp. I sold most of my MF lenses and bought AF lenses. I really don't mind buying the new technology, if I can gain from it. The new lens/body combination of the N80 makes photography more convenient when needed (High-speed AF, program automation, 3D Metering, etc.), but I can always switch to manual mode and get creative when necessary.

In conclusion: -------------- Given an old TLR, or Diana-F, I can still make nice images. It is just a lot easier with my new N80. Don't let the bad talk in some of the messages above discourage you. The N80 is a fine camera that will last a careful photographer for many years. If you are concerned about ultimate longevity, then save your money and buy an F5.

-Darrell Young

-- Darrell Young (darrell@nxs.net), June 21, 2001.


So I've heard a lot of comparisons between the N80 and the F100. I've also heard vague comparisons to the N70 and N90s.

Can anyone give a more complete comparison between the N80 and N90x for me? I'm quite divided between the two and haven't the hands-on experience with both to make an informed decision. I also have a couple of good prime MF lenses that I would dearly love to use with a new AF body but am willing to forgo them for new zoom ones if the N80 is that much better than the N90s.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

-- Giselle (giselle__@hotmail.com), July 31, 2001.


Moderation questions? read the FAQ