Beth, I was just at the journalcon site and was really suprised to see that you are not listed as a speaker. Are you going to journalcon? Is anyone else going? I don't here very much about it even though I read a lot of online journals.

-- Anonymous, March 31, 2000

Answers

I wasn't asked to be a speaker. I was toying with the idea of going until I found out how much it costs to fly from Sacramento to Pittsburgh ... never mind.

I haven't heard much discussion of it, either. There is a forum over at diarist.net, though.

-- Anonymous, March 31, 2000

Well, after some deliberation and such, I have decided that I am almost certainly going to go. I have a close friend in Pittsburg that I can hang with, so the expense is really just in the drive and the goofin'.

So, um, yeah. See you there, whoever...

-- rob

-- Anonymous, March 31, 2000

You just think you're so big and bad living on the East Coast now, DON'T YOU, rob? Sheesh. Thanks for rubbing it in for the rest of us that would have to fork over some pretty serious cash in order to head out there.

The cash is what's keeping me from going.

I could buy a WHOLE BUNCH of baby stuff with the 700-1000 it would cost me to go to JournalCon.

-- Anonymous, March 31, 2000

It's funny - I really wanted to go when I first heard of this.. at least to put faces to names and journals, but when it was still up in the air about where it would be held, I was worried. Turns out it's gonna be in good ol' Pgh, where I am currently going to college (u. of pitt).. so I'll be there.

-- Anonymous, March 31, 2000

Journalcon. Hmmmmm....

Wouldn't it be a nightmare - a living HELL on EARTH - if this thing turned out to be like a live-action version of diary-L?

I've done it a few times, but meeting people through the internet STILL creeps me out. A whole room full of people from the internet? Nope, nope, nope.

I can already picture the onanistic journal entries about the journal convention.

Perhaps I'm overly cynical, though. Or maybe I'm just a bitch. Who can say?

-Harold wonderland 2 http://home.midsouth.rr.com/wonderland2/

-- Anonymous, March 31, 2000

I think location is going to be a big factor for everyone, whichever way they decide. Expect mostly East Coast folks at JournalCon. I voted for Chicago, because it's not that expensive to fly there from anywhere in the States since it's such a hub. Still not sure I would have gone, though.

I confess that I have to agree with Harold ... I think it could be a nightmare. I'd be willing to risk a nightmare if it were held somewhere local, but I'm not flying across the country for it. There is nothing in the program so far that makes me think, "Oh, man, I can't miss that."

Guess you know why I wasn't asked to a speaker! Three days of people taking online journals way too seriously? Snore.

-- Anonymous, March 31, 2000

Um, yeah. Just reread that, and realized I was a little harsh. So here's the caveat: if you really like meeting people and going to seminars and talking about online journals, I bet you'd have a lot of fun at JournalCon. I find those last two things to be excruciatingly boring except in really small doses, so I'm not going. How's that?

-- Anonymous, March 31, 2000

Well I'm on the committee and I _was_ planning to go, but now I'm moving to San Francisco and I hate flaying. It was fine when it was within distance of a train ride from DC, but now I'm not so sure.

To boot, I wasn't that impressed with Pittsburgh the first time I went there a few years ago and though I'm willing to give the city a second chance, it's not exactly at the top of my list of favorite destinations, except that my brother is at school there so I'd have a free place to crash.

As for meeting people from online -- I have no problem with it atall. I've been doing it for eight years now and I only have 1 purely negative experience and 1 slightly negative experience out of some 20-odd meetings.

By and large, people are in Real Life as they are in the Virtual World, it's just that they are present in all of their dimensions in RL whereas in VR you're seeing a reflection.

I've made wonderful friends, met my partner and all in all widened my horizons and my world by meeting people online and then face-to-face. so that aspect of the con is actually something I'd look forward to. Then again, it would depend on who all else is going.

I still think that one of the ideas that was tossed around by the committee was a good one -- to have more than one 'con of small size in different locations. After all, we _are_ on the web. We could have organized them to happen on the same spread of dates in 3 different cities, one West Coast, one Mid-West, one East Coast and then set up a webcam so that we could peek in on the goings-on at the other locations.

It'd be interesting to run the same talk, for example in three different places at the same time and then have the attendees come out and talk about it on chat or something.

Anyway -- thoughts for next time out I guess.

-- Anonymous, March 31, 2000

And that's _flying_ that I hate, although I'm not keen on _flaying_ either.

-- Anonymous, March 31, 2000

I am with Beth K. I am not keen on 'flaying' either :)

I was *very* into this idea (JournalCon, not flaying) when it first started being bandied about, because it sounded fun. But after reading the website, I realize that somewhere along the way, this went from 'CON'vention, ie lots of drinking, partying, laughing, and being goofy with my online pals and pals-to-be, to a 'CON'ference, where the day is completly filled with seminars on things like 'the future of online journalling'.

I can tell you that future right now: every day, a few more people will get free web space on Xoom and Geocities, and start up online journals. At the same time, a few seasoned online journal veterans will close up shop and take down their archives. A few more people will start flame wars, and a few others will patch things up with their online enemies. Everyone will still be their bitchiest on Diary L. There....now you can all skip that seminar, and come up to my room to do some body shots and bitch about the 'bloggers!

I would probably go anyway, and skip the seminars, just to meet Carolyne and Nancy and Pamie, except for the registration process. I have serious reservations about sending a personal cheque for $75, my full name, and home address to their finance committee, which consists of two people operating under pseudonyms, who briefly dabbled in online journalling but not longer keep online journals.

Maybe I will gate crash :)

-- Anonymous, March 31, 2000

You know, Kristin, I think you got it exactly ... when I thought it was going to be a big party, it sounded like fun. Now it sounds like work. Bah.

And I hadn't realized that about the registration, but you're right. We all like to think we know each other in this little scene, but honestly ... would you send me your credit card number? (Really? Cool! Let me go rent a P.O. box, and I'll tell you where to send it!)

-- Anonymous, March 31, 2000

Hmm. Another thought. This isn't really THAT expensive, at least the conference isn't. I could get into the idea of going if someone cool wanted to be my roommate, and we could skip the actual seminar stuff and just stay drunk for three days and embarrass the online journaling community. Anyone want to sign on to be official JournalCon troublemakers, and hopefully get arrested? I can be talked into this.

-- Anonymous, March 31, 2000

Sign me up for that!

I will bring the tequila, and noismakers. You bring the bungee cords and the goat!

Someone get that Kim Rollins on board. Something tells me she might useful!

-- Anonymous, March 31, 2000

Twenty years ago I could drink all the booze you gals could transport. Now I know that I don't need to be lit to have a grand blast. Its all in the mood and disposition for me.

I do fine in a small group of people gathered just for enjoyment, even a dinner (if there is no after dinner speaker)

My experience has been full of seminars, speeches, formal anything. I am not knocking any of it. It jist ain't my bag.

If I could afford to fly I would be happy to join Beth, et al and try to raise as much hell and sowing of confusion as possible.

I would greatly like to meet face to face, and voice to voice the people whose journals and diaries I read, and a gathering where everyone didn't have to pass out addresses, phone numbers and places of business.

I have seen pictures of a few of you all and have this attitude, any gathering is not a beauty contest but a group of mostly like minded people. I don't look in a mirror except in emergencies.

All rebels do not come from the South.

-- Anonymous, March 31, 2000

Okay, I'm giving something away here, but I think I'll be forgiven.

Saundra and I are trying to think of a way to put together an "AlternaCon," where those online journallers who don't particularly want to sit in a conference room listening to the fascinating complexities of the mouseover can get together on the cheap.

Hold it in a Motel Six or somesuch. Our agenda would look like this:

11:00 A.M. - Opening comments

11:30 A.M. -- Discussion: Where to have brunch?

1:00 P.M. -- Nap

3:30 P.M. -- Guest Lecture or reruns of "Buffy" (by vote)

8:00 P.M. -- Roundtable discussion: Italian or Chinese for dinner?

11:30 P.M. -- Split into groups:

Group I: Where's the cheapest place to get drunk? Group II: Who's driving these winos home?

And so on.

We could hold it in a city that's easily accessible to all parts of the country. Chicago sounds like a grand choice.

If you're interested, let me know! I was all for JournalCon, but the official site takes itself so goddamned seriously that I think I'd just end up wanting to "unsubscribe" from the whole convention, like I do with Diary-L every other week. :)

-- Anonymous, March 31, 2000

Oh, Patrick,

Now I understand why everyone loves you! Because of your excellent planning skills. Fabulous, fabulous agenda.

-- Anonymous, March 31, 2000

Me! Me! I'll be your roomate, Beth. I can virtually guarantee we could get arrested, too. And who better to help you embarrass the online journal community than me, huh? Oh wait, you wanted somebody cool. Fuck.

One thing I want to know about the seminars: Is heckling allowed? How about drinking? They wouldn't be so bad then. And if we get kicked out of one can we still go to the others?

I have a brother living in Toronto, and airfare is only $280 (US$190) from here. From there it's what, a 5 hour drive to Pittsburgh? It's closer than NYC, and I've driven there from my brother's twice now. And my brother can lend me one of their cars for the weekend.

This is gonna rock.

-- Anonymous, March 31, 2000

Or you could all just come to Toronto. We can show you a good time, promise!

-- Anonymous, March 31, 2000

Okay, first things first:

1. Patrick: call me. I had changed my mind about the whole marriage deal because of your unfortunate fondness for Julia Roberts, but I think we can work things out.

2. Alternajournalcon: oh, I am so there. Any city you want to name. Chicago? Hell yeah, even in the middle of winter. On the other hand, I like that Toronto idea ... do you know I've (ohthisissoembarrassing) never been to Canada? (Or Mexico, either.)

-- Anonymous, March 31, 2000

Hey Beth -- how many roomies would you be up for? Between you n' me I bet we could get everyone _way_ confused.

*grin*

Althought I can't drink worth a damn -- it only takes one beer to put me under.

-- Anonymous, March 31, 2000

All you West Coast journallers could put together a lottery! Everybody kick in whatever you can, draw names from a hat, and you could probably put together enough money to send some designated journallers to JournalCon, or 10 people to Modesto. Boy, wouldn't that be fun!

-- Anonymous, March 31, 2000

Or ... or ... how about this! We could have Alternajournalcon West, at the El Whatever in West Sacramento, and margaritas at my place, and we'll invite Jenni of Jennicam since she's about to be our neighbor. It'll be swell.

I move that we tell Gabby to go find us a Denny's and a Motel 6 in Chicago, and then we'll choose a date, start rounding up our Buffy tapes, and road trip in that direction. Yeehaw.

-- Anonymous, March 31, 2000

-- Colin (cfmckin@uswest.com) Said

you could probably put together enough money to send some designated journallers to JournalCon, or 10 people to Modesto. Boy, wouldn't that be fun! -------

Hey! I'm already in Modesto! Heh!

Was that some sort of wisecrack? Hey, why not do a North Cal Journal Con?

Angie

-- Anonymous, March 31, 2000

Beth--

I would even update if a Sacramento-based Alternacon happened. And durnit, it's about time. I can think of more than a goodly handful of area journallers off the top of my head, and all of them seem more prone to burritos-and-margaritas than serious design-talk. And heck, even the bay area people could come over.

-- Anonymous, March 31, 2000

Well, there you go. If it will get you to update, I'll make this official:

My house. June 11 (a Sunday). Potluck barbecue with margaritas. That's my contribution to Sacramento Journalcon; someone else plan some other events.

-- Anonymous, March 31, 2000

Hey, I think my trip to Sacramento has just been rescheduled for June 11.

-- Anonymous, March 31, 2000

Well, we tried to do this earlier this month, but it was at short notice, so I think we should give it a go again. announcing: journalON -- fun in Toronto. date TBA.

email me if you're interested

-- Anonymous, March 31, 2000

I was invited to speak. Still debating.

-- Anonymous, March 31, 2000

I'm planning to go, yea, mainly becuase it's close enough to *get* to, so I'd kick myself if I didn't. I haven't looked over any agenda - mine is to meet some people, talk my ass off and have a few beers (so Patrick's plan sounds like what I'd envisioned). If people want to get all conference-style serious, uh... I'll meet them after hours? I am in the middle of doing one of *those* events for work, so it doesn't sound like a lot of fun to me on my free time. I *enjoy* long analytical discussions, but I like 'em when they are spontaneous!

-- Anonymous, March 31, 2000

We can always do "AlternaCon" DURING JournalCon. Make sure all our rooms are together on the same floor, and not venture out of them, except to get food and see whatever sights Pittsburgh has to offer.

I'd even make up t-shirts saying, "Follow us to AlternaCon." Catch as many dazed-looking journallers as we can, fresh out of the most recent seminar on frames vs. JavaScript.

Seeing as how "JournalCon" has three speakers (if you include Jim) who no longer have journals, and John Scalzi, who has claimed never to have had a journal, what, exactly, are we to learn from these people? How to take down your site gracefully? How to turn down Diarist.net awards gracefully?

I've never done much of anything gracefully. Whether it's pizzas and Buffy in my room, or a whole 'nother convention in the Motel 6 in Chicago, I'm willing to step up to the plate and declare AlternaCon as official.

Oh, and Beth? I'll certainly marry you, but you have to buy *me* the ring.

-- Anonymous, March 31, 2000

*whimper*

I can go to Chicago. I can't go to Pittsburgh. Does anyone care?

-- Anonymous, March 31, 2000

Saundra, you big crackwhore, I care. Baby, I care.

-- Anonymous, March 31, 2000

Thank you, Kristin, you pus-ridden gutter tramp. I knew I could count on you.

-- Anonymous, March 31, 2000

Beth: Can I bring the Baby? Or Should I leave her at home with Jake and come get smashed? *Grin*

-- Anonymous, March 31, 2000

Okay, so is there any reason we can't do all of the above? NoCal journalers (and anyone else who's in town) can drop by for my early summer BBQ. We can have a big DRUNKEN JOURNALING BASH (no "con" elements, how's that?) in Chicago. And anyone who wants to attend the real JournalCon but skip all the boring seminar stuff can do that, too. I'm still up in the air about Pittsburgh ... if any of you rabble rouser types are really thinking of going and you'd like to be my roommate, e-me. I snore.

That is all.

-- Anonymous, April 01, 2000

I completely agree with what Kristin said in her first post. I thought this was going to be like a huge party, a bunch of journallers getting drunk and a great chance for me get laid.

I went to the site last week.. ewww, who wants to spend hours upon hours discussing the "finer" points of online journalling when we could all be drunk and having sex? not me.

And Pittsburg.. Grody. I voted for Chicago seven times. Of course it's not really expensive for me to get to P'burg but it just seemed so selfish of those east-coasters.

This whole shindig is looking rather expensive for me and my poor person's wallet. Especially when I can count the number of online journallers that I want to meet on one hand and still have a couple of fingers left.

But I did kinda want to go to the design conferences.. bah. September/October is a very expensive time period for me so I don't know if I'll be there. I'd love it if AlternaCon WAS during JournalCon though.. I know I'd be there if I went someplace! :)

-a http://girlhero.org/dream

-- Anonymous, April 01, 2000

It's just not fair! *stamping of feet* It doesn't matter where anything is held in the States I'm never going to be able to amke it over.

Anyone want to come over to Ireland for the Jounalling piss-up to end all journalling piss-ups?

I'm missing out on all the fun.*sniff*

-- Anonymous, April 01, 2000

June 11th sounds awfully far away from now. Far away and hot.

-- Anonymous, April 01, 2000

Well, I can't do it any sooner than that. If someone else wants to host it sooner, they're welcome to. If people want to come here, they can come on June 11.

-- Anonymous, April 01, 2000

AlternaCon can only work as a concept for me if it's a real alternative to JournalCon. Meaning, it's not another event for another time, but a parallel event. There are two choices here:

1.) AlternaCon happens at JournalCon, in Pittsburg. We buy up a block of rooms, have a blast, and try to seduce as many people away from the seminars, talks, and round-table discussions as possible. AlternaCon "happenings" (like art "happenings" or acts of civil disobedience) can be scheduled, just so's AlternaCon is a presence.

2.) AlternaCon happens at a location more convenient (and fun, and less expensive) than Pittsburgh. Many, many people have said that Chicago is less expensive and easier to get to from all parts of the country, so I'm up for that. Kristin has volunteered to find inexpensive accomodations, and since we won't be needing conference rooms or slide projectors or what-all the JournalCon people are planning, I'm sure the cost will be lower.

If you're up for a real AlternaCon, then let's go for it. If not, then let's not. But let's not try to have our cake and eat it too.

-- Anonymous, April 01, 2000

I was asked to be a speaker, and I would have done it, too, (though I have no frickin' idea what I would have said!) but for the fact that my high school reunion takes place over the same weekend in a completely different state, and I wouldn't miss it for the world.

I really wanted to go to JournalCon, though, so that nobody would get ahead of me in terms of notches on their belts (journallers met, not journallers killed), and if it was a giant disaster I wanted to be there to watch, and Pamie'll be there and some other cool people, but man I'd LOVE to go to Alterna-JournalCon, but since it'll be on the SAME DAMN WEEEKEND that's still no good to me.

Fine. You guys all go have fun without me. See if I care.

Kymm

-- Anonymous, April 01, 2000

Beth, What airports are near you? I want to check ticket prices before I commit to coming out there.

I am all for an anti-Journalcon. I did promise shelley(ness) and bill dickson that I'd go to Pittsburgh, but I think a far more constructive use of my time there would be to get blitzed with Patrick et al.

-- Anonymous, April 01, 2000

Being in the trade show industry for many years, I don't really understand why Pittsburgh was chosen. Chicago, Denver or Dallas have better facilities and are far more interesting places to go to -- and are more accessible as hubs. (Sorry you Pittsburghers out there).

I would go if I was asked to be a speaker and they comped part of my travel expenses. Trade shows do that sometimes, ya know.

Here's even a better idea, why don't they hold it in a city that is always warm, has massive convention space, lots of affordable hotels and restaurants and is on a coast that has absolutely beautiful beaches...

like...

like...

San Diego!!!

The Road Trip is taking me to the beach now.

-- Anonymous, April 01, 2000

As I understand, there was a vote between four cities -- Chicago, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, and Honalulu -- and Pittsburgh won fair and square. Not quite sure how that happened, since at the time I voted, Chicago was winning by a landslide. But according to the registry at Diarist.net, there are 24 journals based in Pittsburgh, so I guess those journalers just got all their friends to back them up. (There are like fifty journals based in Chicago, but the only two I've ever heard of are kept by folks on the JournalCon organizing committee.)

I suppose Pittsburgh is a perfectly nice city, but I do wish the voters had chosen something more centralized, like Chicago or Denver. Too late now, though.

I guess Patrick is right, though -- unless someone wants to organize something in Chicago on short notice, we should probably just plan on going to Pittsburgh but making our own fun.

-- Anonymous, April 01, 2000

If not this year in Denver, how about next year ? There are some pretty neat people here and the weather is usually nice. Born and raised here from 1921 on and still love it.

Denver doug

-- Anonymous, April 01, 2000

If not this year in Denver, how about next year ? There are some pretty neat people here and the weather is usually nice. Born and raised here from 1921 on and still love it.

Denver doug

-- Anonymous, April 01, 2000

Beth said..

"There are like fifty journals based in Chicago, but the only two I've ever heard of are kept by folks on the JournalCon organizing committee."

Ahem. *I* am in Chicago.

heeheee!

And, according to my sources (ie, I called around), we can get a wing of a Motel 6 pretty cheap, if you all want to come to Chicago, drink a little too much, eat a little too much, and not talk about our online journals at all.

-- Anonymous, April 01, 2000

Cool. I saw you on that list, Kristin, but I thought you lived in Toronto for some reason.

I must be on drugs.

-- Anonymous, April 01, 2000

Hey Beth --

June 11? I'm there with bells on baby -- does Doc want any special doggie treats?

I'd offer to host something Bay Area-side but I have _no_ idea where we'll be living or if we'll even have a place by then:)

Though I s'pose we could meet down on the beach or at the park somwheres and have a a Journal-lu'au ... and still get plastered off our bums.

-- Anonymous, April 01, 2000

Oh, I think you guys should all come to Texas. Dallas and Houston are both hubs, and there are tons of journalers in the Central Texas area (Dallas/Houston/Austin/San Antone). We wouldn't have a convention or a conference but just one big-ass party. Doesn't that sound more fun than some old journalcon?

-- Anonymous, April 01, 2000

Chicago! Chicago!

We wanted it first.

It was all set to go in Chicago, then people started complaining because the location wasn't put up to a vote. Now it's in Pittsburgh, and I'm not going. Mainly because I don't want to spend vacation time visiting Pittsburgh when there are tons of other places I actually want to go to. If it had been in, say, San Francisco or LA or New York City or Boston or Toronto, I would have been there in a second. But Pittsburgh?

There are some people I would like to meet who will be there, but I figure I'll meet them one way or another...

Kristin, if you need help putting together a Journaldrunkbash in Chicago...count me in! Heaven knows I know plenty of places in Chicago where people can go and get drunk...

Chicagoan Nanette of No Idea, No

-- Anonymous, April 01, 2000

Hey, I hate to be contrary, and it's entirely academic to me...I can't make EITHER journalcon--- but nothing on the journalcon page is writ in stone. If you think that listening to lectures about subjects in journalling is lame, write and let them know! There's plenty of time to make it more free-and-easy.--Al of NOVA NOTES.

-- Anonymous, April 01, 2000

Oh sure, Kristin. Mention tequila, noisemakers, bungee cords, and a goat, and the first thing that pops into your head is "Kim Rollins"? I don't even OWN a noisemaker.

One thing I noticed looking around the Journalcon site is that not a lot is set in stone yet, unless there is actually someone with the name Honored Speaker giving a lecture titled "Title". If enough people posted on the Journalcon boards at Diarist.net Active to the effect that they didn't want a structured conference, there's still time -- several months -- to make that happen. I'm sure that Dreama et al don't want to throw a party that puts people to sleep. I'm sure that none of the Honored Speakers want to speechify to a ballroom of empty folding chairs.

Also, Pittsburgh [note the H] is a beautiful city. Just because it's got the word "pit" in the name and there's steel mills around doesn't mean it's nasty. My only wish is that Journalcon took place during baseball season; I'd love to the Pirates in Three Rivers again. Ooh, I even have an "authentic replica" [pfft] of a pillbox-style Pirate cap.

I wrote a bit more about Pittsburgh here:

http://www.diarist.net/active/Forum4/HTML/000002.html

.......................................................

-- Anonymous, April 01, 2000

Ok, I nominate Nanette to be the head of the Social Committee! Can I get an "Amen" for that?!?

-- Anonymous, April 01, 2000

After reading over the forum, one thing I keep noticing is that people are assuming the sessions are going to be boring. They may be; I don't know and won't know till October when I actually attend one. However, I do know I'm not going to go in thinking "this is going to suck." If I go in and am bored to tears, then there's nothing keeping me from getting up and leaving to explore the city, hotel bar, or where ever else I might decide to go.

I'm not going to say "it'll be great! everyone will have a good time!" because it may not be, and quite frankly not everyone is going to have a good time. However, I don't think writing it off simply because the schedule looks boring, or the sessions might be boring is giving it a fair chance. If you don't like the way the schedule looks, then do as Kim suggested and write the planning commitee, or, better yet, volunteer to help come up with something better.

Someone mentioned the bitchiness of diary-l in a three day event, and if this board represents the attitudes of those people who are going but writing it off before they even get there, then yes, it will be like diary-l. And it will be their own damn fault.

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

Speaking fully as a representative of JournalCon, I can only say this:

It is sad that all of you have such a low opinion of the event as has been planned thus far, mainly because not a single person who has posted a disparaging comment on this board offered a single word of input when public calls for participation in the process were made.

The OLJ community is a very vocal one and one with lots of good ideas, which was what we counted on when we decided to undertake the hours and hours of work that are involved in putting together something of this scope, particularly when all of your key players are in different locations.

Unfortunately, what we've been met with is an unbreaking wall of silence. Three people have posted to the mailing list or sent e- mails with their input on the program and the schedule. Three.

Going back to the very beginning, only eight people, in four pairs, bothered to submit their cities for hosting. From that, fewer than one hundred legitimate votes were tallied.

There have been no volunteers from the ranks to do any of the work -- to serve on the committees, to help put together the program, schedule the events, invite the speakers, work with marketing or finance or any other aspect of the organisation of this event. There has been a core group of no more than a half dozen people (at any given time) who have done EVERYTHING involved in setting up JournalCon, as the concept exists, to this moment.

Strangely, though, there have been plenty of people in various locales who have lots to say about why JournalCon won't be an event that they want to attend or why it's in the wrong place, or why it will be boring, or to make (hopefully) ridiculous comments about trying to subvert the planned activities because they've got better ideas.

If you have something constructive to add, some suggestion for change to the program, I'm curious as to why haven't you presented it to anyone involved?

If you don't care enough to make input, then why do you care enough to disparage?

Bottom line, if you don't care, and you don't want to attend, fine. But for the rest of you, it would make much more sense to direct your concerns and your ideas to the people who can do something with them, or better yet, to join us to help make this event into something that is representative of what the OLJ community, at large, wants. As someone (forgive me for not catching who) said, we're not looking to throw a party to which no one will come, but we're also not looking to throw a big journaller's beer bust, either. If you want to help us to meet that goal, come and join in.

Oh, and as an aside, to address certain false statements presented here upon the issue of finance, it is true that two of the three members of the finance committee do use pseudonyms in public, for reasons of personal protection due to the public nature of both of our jobs. It is not true that either of us have "dabbled" in online journaling, and while I am not currently keeping an OLJ due to those same security concerns which lead me to attempt to protect my identity, my co-host certainly is continuing to write online and will gladly present the URL to anyone who asks. (I boggle at the concept that my considerable involvement in the OLJ community and more than two years of writing could be characterised as "dabbling.")

In addition, our full names are disclosed on every legal document with respect to this event, including the financial statements, which are available upon request to any party. The business dealings of JournalCon 2000 are an open book. We also have a written statement regarding privacy and disclosure available for anyone who has concerns about what will be done with their personal information. It would behoove people to be knowledgeable of what they speak before attempting to cast aspersions upon the business side of this event, as every transaction has been conducted with the full knowledge of the entire steering committee and with full anticipation of public audit and oversight.

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

I've now looked over the proposed journalcon discussions and - I see one or two I'd like to sit in on, and I will. For the rest of the time - and it doesn't matter one bit to me if it is planned or unplanned, I'd like to be involved in less formal gatherings, where the discussion goes where it will (including, I hope, OFF the subject of journals, and onto simply getting to know in person some of these interesting people I've gotten to know online).

I'm neither asking or expecting the committee to plan out that sort of event, I'm just saying that is the way I will do it, and had planned to do it - and the way I would do it even if every single formal portion of the conference sounded amazing. I didn't think that would be an issue. I plan to do it that way not because there is anything wrong with what's planned, but simply because I would be getting very antsy after hours of listening to a couple speakers up front and *refraining* from talking to all the interesting people sitting around me, so as not to be rude.

I remember a lot of references to the NYC gathering where after the fact, people enjoyed it but were sorry for the ones they didn't have time to talk to due to being a part of the audience. I don't want to leave there wishing I'd struck up a conversation with the person sitting next to me listening to the speaker up front I also never got around to talking with one on one.

This is a pretty once in a lifetime event for a lot of us - and I don't want to come away having gathered a lot of information about journals that could have been had via online methods and missed out on the one thing that is better done in person - meeting each other, talking to each other, watching each other laugh.

That's all... it's not a slam on the con, or on its committee. As I said, I'm arranging one of these for work right now, and I know it's hard work, and I know that the desire is to make it as interesting and enjoyable as possible. I also know that in our own event, even though I am fiercely interested in the subject matter of every single brief that will happen for two days - I'm going to want to be clawing my eyeballs out to just get out of that room and out of audience mode.

I hope that the committee will keep in mind that if pleasure in participation is key, they will not decide to take issue with those of us who seek that out in ways they've not planned out for us. I appreciate very much the effort gone into providing us a place to gather, and I could care less where it is, because its the meeting people that matters to me - and if we choose to not fill up every minute of that opportunity with pre-planned events, there shouldn't be anything wrong with that....because unlike the one I am putting together, this one isn't about Work. Right?

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

Dreama said: "It would behoove people to be knowledgeable of what they speak before attempting to cast aspersions upon the business side of this event..blah, blah, blah"

Dreama, you can say anything you want, but the fact remains that. according to the Journalcon site, if I want to register, I have to send a cheque to two people who use pseudonyms. I have no way of knowing how long you have been in the journalling community, except on your claims that it is two years, because there are no archives to back it up. I followed the link to 'Amethyst's site, and found a site with about six entries, the last being months ago...yes, I call that dabbling. I also think that it is unfair to say that we should blindly send our money and personal information to anyone who cannot deal with that on a level playing field by at least offering their real name back. Is it so hard to have someone who DOES use their real information to be the contact person?

I can just see dealing with my bank, should there be a problem. "Oh, yes, I mailed that cheque off to a Mrs. ScreenName91. No, no first name. Nope, isn't her last name. Nope, don't know her in person. No, no..isn't her real name. Um....nope, don't know where she lives. Um...sent it to a rented post office in Pittsburgh. Nope, never been to Pittsburgh. Yep...just sent it because the website said it was ok."

As far as your considerable involvement, as I can see it, that consists of spending the last week on Diary-L insisting that you *are* in fact a bitch, and are in fact not cute or nice. That really does not encourage me to trust you with my money!

It is no wonder more people haven't spoken out with what they want and don't want at Journalcon, when even in this forum, where everyone is being amusing and lighthearted about it, you have come in, insulted us, belittled us, and tried to steamroll us into seeing it your way. You could have come here, taken something positive from this discussion of journalcon, and used it to make the conference a little better, but instead you decided to get defensive and yell at us all. This isn't Diary-L. This is someone else's forum.

And if you are upset that people aren't discussing it elsewhere, well, I have never seen it brought up on other lists. If you read the opening messages, you will see that those people also haven't been seeing it discussed anywhere. The wall of silence seems to be coming from the organizers.

And....jeez! Do I really want to go to any conference where the organizers are using words like "behoove" instead of just saying, "Oh. You have concerns? We have answers for those!"

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

Yay Kristin!

Had I known that we were so masterful at rabble-rousing, I would have picked a more worthy cause.

Officially (well, according to one source), we're apparently simultaneously too cool for the room and too boring to hang with.

Screw it, we have to make it Pittsburgh now. I wonder if they'll hire extra security to make sure we're not too "disruptive?"

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

First, an emphatic 'Word!' to Kristin. Say it, sister.

Second, did I read the above posts correctly? Are Dave Van and Rob going to be in the same room together at this thing?

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

SLAP FIGHT!

:)

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

As much as you all want to think that you were discussing this in a 'light-hearted' way, the implication of rabble rousing and alternacon shows a complete disrespect for the actual conference itself.

And that's fine. If you don't want to go to the conference, don't go. If there is too much scheduled activities, and not enough talk time, then tell the people who are putting this thing together. You can be sure that nobody wants to put together an uninteresting conference; it's not like people are standing around rubbing their hands together and thinking, 'how can we make ____ most unhappy?'

You -are- acting too cool for the whole thing. It's just like high school. Break the agenda, make tee-shirts, moan and groan and bitch about how boring it will be, start your own alternative so that you can be better than everybody else who goes to the 'plain, normal' one. Heavens if you should do something like actually help to make the conference itself more like what you want.

I was going to speak at this thing. I thought it would be kind of cool to sit around and have some direction to our socializing; to talk about the genre and where its headed and what it means. I even thought I might have something important or interesting to say, and that people might be interested in hearing it. That makes me boring, I suppose. (I guess I already knew that)

The thing is, I don't want to go if I'm going to have to watch my back. I don't want to go and feel the way I did in elementary school : the cool kids are over there, the losers like me are over here, and goddamn if I should ever let anybody know what I really care about.

I don't apologize for wanting to explore the online journal genre more. I don't apologize for caring about what I'm doing here, and where this medium is going. And while you can say that many of the posts in this forum are supposed to be light and fun, the fact is that they are nibbling away at the hard work that some people are doing for this conference.

I guess it's just easier to bitch than it is to roll up your

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

It must be exhausting to be as cool as you self-described "cool" people are.

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

Who self described themself as 'cool'?

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

It's about every third word in some posts.

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

A quote from Ryan on the diarist.net discussion forum:

I don't think there's any question the key draw for many of us is just meeting each other. Outside of the posted 'program' I sure as hell plan to do a lot of, "hey, it's you!" And even in the event, we're not talking suits and ties and dead silence. Very casual, very fun!

On the other hand, it is a conference. Something a bit bigger than the great, and thankfully more and more common gatherings of journalers at homes and coffeehouses. This is a first ever effort to tackle our art, our genre, our whatchamacallit, as a whole, seriously, for both ourselves and people just discovering us.

[...]

But more importantly, we're going to get to ponder Big and Not-so-Big questions and issues with some wonderful people. We have barely begun working through our list of invited speakers, but some great people have already said they'll be there.

There is a history to what we do, and there is a lot of future left to play with. That's what the 'program' side of JournalCon is designed to tackle.

That was in response to a complaint that the program seems too structured. Given that, as well as this quote from Dreama:

... but we're also not looking to throw a big journaller's beer bust, either

... I would say this is more than just a situation of people needing to suggest alternate activities if they don't like the ones offered. There is a fundamental difference of opinion here, and frankly, the committee might be finding itself without help or suggestions because they are adhering too hard and fast to a boring (yes, I said boring, and I'm sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings, but there you go) schedule of speakers and conferences about subjects that have already been talked to death on mailing lists and other online forums. I don't care what the subject is; give it to a keynote speaker and put us all at tables with name tags, and it's going to be boring. Even if the keynote speaker is Pamie. Talking endlessly about the art, craft, ethics, and process of online journaling is about the most boring goddamn activity I think of. If I wanted to do that, I could do it online and not spend a thousand bucks for the opportunity. Meeting a bunch of journalers in person is an opportunity you don't get very often. I'll be damned if I'm going to shell out money and then miss that opportunity just so I don't offend the damn committee.

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

Hmm. I'd invite you all to do a word search for the word "cool" on this page; it makes Joy's post rather amusing. I did ask for a cool roommate, so I apologize for making everyone feel bad.

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

What you said, Beth.

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

I'm sorry that I didn't get that the alternacon was a joke. I felt like I had something personal invested in journalcon (being a speaker), and I allowed my insecurity to dominate me. I have to tell you, two of my greatest fears about this thing are: 1) speaking to an empty room and 2) being laughed at. When it seemed as though both of those things were possible, my claws came out and I viciously scratched.

I think this can be a great thing, and I'm actually looking forward to it again.

tesserae (and in case I get truncated, tesserae once ag

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

Alternacon? Wasn't that one of the cross-dressing Transformers? You hold the little action figure and the purse makes laser noises. Tchew! Tchew! Tchew Tchew Tchew Tchew! Tchew Tchew Tchew Tchew Tchew!

...oops, that looks silly! I better delete that before I hit submi

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

All of us little kids plotting (laughing at) the staid and somber establishment figures seem to be bringing out some outraged righteousness.

Jeeeeez ! Laugh a bit dammit !

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

Defensive? When I'm slandered, I tend to get defensive. Pardon me.

Issues with my use of words like "behoove" -- I'm sorry, I have a vocabulary and I use it.

And yes, this is Beth's forum, and no, it isn't diary-l, but when someone takes inaccurate potshots at this event and posts things are completely incorrect and inflammatory, I will respond, here or elsewhere.

Those red herrings aside, I did not insult, belittle or steamroll anyone. I made truthful corrections and responses to what I read in this forum. If you take exception to being asked why you choose to complain about the con when you chose not to participate in the planning thereof, even when asked, that is not my fault nor responsibility.

As to the length of my time in the OLJ community, that can be verified through any number of independent persons and posts to any number of mailing lists, etc. As for involvement, I continue to run a webring, several burbs, I'm the current "owner" (such that one exists) for the #journals IRC channel, I've been a contributor to MetaJournals, I am a contributor to the community adjunct World Year project and I'm on staff with Diarist.net. This speaks in volumes much louder than a series of joking posts on diary-l which are not being characterised in context.

The links to Amethyst's journal from the JCon site are sadly, out of date -- she moved months ago and continues to journal, writing on a weekly basis.

But most importantly, when you send your registration, you send it to JournalCon, not to me, nor Amethyst or any other individual. We are not the sole members of the finance committee, (there is an additional member in another location, and as of today, yet another volunteer who is actually local) nor can any funds be disbursed solely on our say so.

We have a post office box because we do not have a JournalCon office, and the only alternative was to have registrations sent to someone's home address. Would you like for your home address to be published on a website, soliciting people to send things your way? That's foolhardy to a fault. But if you'd like to volunteer, we can certainly very easily make the change so that all registrations are sent to you at your home address.

But wait, if I should have a problem with my cheque, what then, I'd go to my bank and say "Oh, well, it was made out to Journalcon, but I sent it to some Kristin Thomas, at an address in Chicago. No, I never met her. No, I don't know if that's her real name, no I know nothing about her, I just whipped off a check to her for $75, because that's what I was told to do."

In other words, no matter what the situation, there is going to have to be an element of trust that the monies are being handled appropriately. The policy of having open books is the best and only plausible insurance of that. If you'd like a copy of the April financial and banking statements, I'll be glad to send them to you as soon as they are received.

I might add that between the two of us, Kristin, it was not *my* online nom-de-plume but *yours* which has historically caused a considerable friction in the JournalCon ranks, and you know exactly what I speak of. After that incident, everything that you might say is tinged with more than a small hint of sour grapes.

But as to your allegations of lack of trustworthiness, I suggest you tuck that little idea right back into your bag of tricks unless you have any substantive evidence to back it up. I don't take baseless diminishments of my reputation lightly.

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

I don't see how it's disrespectful to say, "Hey, you know, the format of JournalCon doesn't interest me. I will do something else that I wil enjoy and invite other, like-minded people to do it too."

You know, as opposed to going to JournalCon and being disruptive and counterproductive because I decided to attend an event I knew didn't interest me in the first place.

I don't see how that's a cooler than, issue. I see that as a diversity issue. I totally dig the Homicide-Graveyard tours I give of Indianapolis, but I don't think people who aren't interested are "too cool" for me, I think, golly, some people just don't share those interests. Silly of me?

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

Or maybe its Alternacone? Like when your at an ice cream shop, they ask you if you want the sugar cone, or the alternacone.

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

Dreama, I don't have a bag of tricks.

What i have is a legitimate concern. Your only answer is that you, in turn, would not trust to send a cheque to me, either.

Well, the problem is, I am not asking anyone to trust me enough to send me their home address and a personal cheque, *and you are*.

And it disturbs me that, rather than help me find any alternative, it is easier for you to attack me.

And Dreama, honestly, would you mail a cheque with your *real* name, and your home address, and your banking information on it, to someone using a pseudonmym, who did not participate in the activity the convention was about,

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

um..that got cut off.

But seriously, what about other registration options? I sent you an email about this subject months ago, and never got a response, but since you yourself are so fired up about your own security, what options are there in place for other people who have *the exact same concerns*?

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

Lets just face it ... JournalCON is for the "big names" - the ones who pretty much make online journalling their entire lives. They're the ones who have the say. Thay're the ones that have the final decision.

As to why no one emailed in with suggestions and contributions, was I the only one with a life who doesn't live 24/7 at diarist.net or MeatJournals or some other site that has info on JournalCON? Before the DNA boards were activated, I had no idea there was a "CON" going on. Perhaps a lot of other people were unaware too. So how could we make suggestions if we didn't know about it? And now that we do, it's a bit too late.

But that's just my two cents worth...

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

Hey Mar, actually it's not too late to voice your opinions about the programming. In fact, there's been a very productive discussion today on diary-l about what people are looking forward to and want to see at the convention. There's also a mailing list set up at egroups specifically for/about the con.

I'm sorry you didn't hear about it before, but there's still plenty of time to voice your opinions.

here's the official site: http://www.journalcon.com

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

Kristin, as I have said repeatedly, you aren't sending a check to me. I have no interest nor ability to do anything personal with any monies submitted for JournalCon registrations.

And what, pray, tell, do you think that we could do with your information, anyway? Raid you bank account? I don't know, I somehow doubt that it's worth the federal charges that it would net us to commit bank fraud against any of the registrants.

And that presumes that this is our intention -- a presumption not based upon anything but your own prurient imagination.

As for e-mail Kristin, I've received nothing from you, particularly not on the topic of journalcon registration. Everything that I receive with JournalCon in the subject is sorted straight to a hot folder and dealt with immediately. Try again.

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

Meeeeeooowwwwrrrr, Duck Kristin, the aroma of self importance will hit you with it's backlash.

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

Well, then who AM I sending my cheque to?

If not you, on the finance committee, who am I sending all of my personal information to?

And don't you think it should perhaps be made clear on the site who is collecting the information we are sending?

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

Dreama I think you have missed the point.

How can people register for this event without providing their personal information to the finance committee? This is the web and it is unreasonable to say that anyone should trust total strangers using screen names based on them saying it is ok and they are trustworthy.

Why can't you answer any of these questions without attacking the person asking?

I sent you an email weeks ago asking about bringing a guest to this event and didn't get a response to my email. Do i have to pay full fees for my guest and why don't you answer your email please?

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

Maybe someone should make sure Alternacon is stocked up with lots of Altourniquets, you know, in case of medical emergency.

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

Wowzers, I just went to the JournalCon website...

Am I the only one getting 404's on almost every page? Uh huh, good site.

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

Looks as if Kristin will need the first Alturnaquet from the backlash of the super, uptight contingent.

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

Um, I just went there and got no 404's at all. Everything seemed to be working just fine to me...

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

...Okay, but I wasn't lying about the 404s! I just went back and checked and it's all working now. A fluke?

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

404? maybe you caught the site in the middle of a page update?

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

Clearly, no answer I give to anything is going to satisfy anyone here at all. I give up. If anyone wants to have a true, substantive discussion on any legitimate issue, there are better forums for it, anyway. E-mail me, or bring it up on any of the three different journalcon discussion lists on egroups.

Jan Beldon, I have likewise never received an e-mail from you, regarding guests or anything of the sort. It is possible that it was sent during the protracted period of time during which my e-mail was down due to a hosting switch.

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

Can I ask one question...

Why are a lot of the people in here (and the OJC too) so judgemental and quick to bitch?

I've been doing some journal surfing this afternoon and some entries are calling the people that have posted here "losers" just because we're complaining about JournalCON. How do you come up with "loser"? We're just voicing our opinions. Isn't that what the JournalCON people wanted us to do all along?

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

Dreama A. You didn't answer my email, so that route is out. Obviously, I am not the only one here who couldn't get an email answer for you, for whatever reason. B. Egroups has been down all weekend, and down off and on all week. Cant ask there. Also, don't want to join the journalcon organizing group just to get one question answered. C. Why can't you just answer the question here...all we want to know is how to register and be able to preserve the same sort of anonymity that organizing members have?

Such a fuss you are kicking up. ...do I have to beg for info on how to register without providing my home address, and to find out who exactly has access to my registration information?

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

Living in Australia as I do, it would be even more prohibitively expensive for me to go to this event than it would be for some of the folks who live in the country where it'll be held. But apart from that, and apart from the fact that I no longer keep an online journal so it'd be kind of pointless, I just find the very idea of a journal convention slightly weird. However, I do very much like the idea of getting drunk and being a troublemaker, so on the day I'll make sure to get loaded here in sympathy with everyone. If I can't be there in the flesh I'll be there in spirit (and possibly spirits too)

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

Dreama, I have a suggestion for collecting registration fees. Why not use a credit card service like paypal.com? I use them for a lot of my eBay stuff and have never had a problem.

Sara http://fauve.

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

Right now, my plan is to attend JournalCon, as it doesn't fall on any date I need to keep for something else, fingers crossed.

Geographically I guess I'm lucky that I'm not still living in Australia, and that I'm on the east coast, but I'm figuring that no matter where and when the JC is held, someone's not going to be able to make it, and no matter what the structure is, someone's not going to like it. It's that whole can't please everyone all of the time dealie.

It's got a structure because without a structure, I'm picturing a bunch of OLJers turing up and having this conversation:

"I don't know, what do *you* want to do now?"

and I'm not getting on a Greyhound bus for that.

I'm going because I want to meet some more OLJers, especially ones who's work I enjoy. I like OLJs, they're one of my favourite reading forms, and if I didn't like reading them, I'd have no reason to go to the JC. All the topics are journal related, and all of them are very similar to articles and topics I;ve seen around the traps (metajournals.com, diarist.net etc etc), and to say that they've all been talked out is to underestimate the effect of being there in person and getting to bounce these ideas off people realtime face to face.

Also, this structure looks reasonably similar to what I've read of the Sci-fi cons, and they seem to work quite well.

If I thought it was going to be crappy, I wouldn't go, if I thought I had suggestions as to how it'd be better, I'd email the person, if I thought I could do it better, I'd probably go to the first one, see how that actually came across, and then try.

Fair go, right?

A.

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

Gods.

You know, it was a fun, silly discussion we were having, I thought. And over-the-top, because that's fun, too.

Of course, people had to take it to mean we were going to be a terrorist organization and start making people feel bad about themselves.

Of course. I should have known.

This is too stupid for words. It really is.

I'm done.

.p.

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2000

Ugh. I'm with Patrick.

Apparently my post above about getting arrested and embarrassing the online journal community was interpreted by some as a call for terrorism and disruption of the convention. Just in case you are reading this without ONE active brain cell in your head, I will issue this clarification: I was joking. I do not actually wish to get arrested in Pittsburgh, and I was not seriously advocating that anyone else do anything that would get them arrested, either. Nor was I advocating heckling or derision of seminar speakers or attendees.

On another note, Jeremy is a teensy bit dismayed that I have invited the entire internet to our home without checking with him in advance, but he'll get over it. However, there may be a sense of humor test required for admittance.

-- Anonymous, April 03, 2000

A humor test? That's a great idea. If you find one or draw one up, let me know. I might to pass it along to prospective blind dates.

-- Anonymous, April 03, 2000

Dreama: I don't know if you've noticed or not, but Beth's journal would appear to indicate that she is not actually, in reality, the type to get drunk, commit malicious mischief, get arrested, and embarrass the people in her general vicinity. If she were, I'm certain she would have gleefully posted stories about flashing passing motorists, spray- painting XENEY RULEZ on the overpass, and getting patted down by attractive police officers. And these stories probably wouldn't be spelled or punctuated very well due to her frequent inebriation.

While I don't intend to disparage the work you and others have put into the con, which is significant and selfless, your alarmism about Beth's post is on a par with warning me about power lines when I announced my intention to arrive at the Westin via F-14 Tomcat. Or briefing me on local indecent-exposure laws if I stated I planned to attend in the nude. (Note to those unfamiliar with me: I am neither a naturalist nor a fighter pilot, although both of those sound pretty cool. There's that word again.)

The average online journaler is, in person, introverted and highly self-conscious -- that's why she was drawn to computers in the first place. I can think of only two (Gus and Shelley[ness]) that I would describe as rabble-rousers, shit-stirrers, or malcontents. By and large, we don't pull fire alarms or stand on chairs and scream. I am about as worried about mayhem at this con as I would be about tiger attacks in Juneau. It ain't gonna happen. I would be, were I to appoint myself social director of this cruise, more concerned about the reverse -- attendees too shy to talk to one another who instead read nametags out of the corners of their eyes while they pretend to admire the dull oil paintings in the lobby.

The problem with the program, as many see it, is that it's based on the idea of one-to-many communication. One-to-many communication is what we do all the time in our journals. Watching a lecture delivered in person is not substantially different than reading a transcript or viewing a video of the same lecture. However, one-to-one communication is something that cannot be successfully replicated online, and therefore the real draw of Journalcon is the one-to-one aspect.

How can something like this be organized? Well, I once went to a party that had a multi-course meal. Guests moved between assigned tables, of 6-8 people, at the end of each course. (I think eight is about the maximum number of people that a person can address at once before she feels she's crossed over the boundary of public speaking and gets terminally anxious.) The constant remixing ensured that people wouldn't fall into conversational pits and stay there, and that everyone had the opportunity to speak semi-privately to everyone else. Just an idea.

By the way, I will bet any amount of cash that as the dust settles in Pgh., there will be a great hue and cry from people claiming that all the "big names" were only interested in talking to each other, and Jane Diaryland and Joe Geocities got stuck mumbling to themselves at the crudite platter and it was just like junior high all over again and JournalCon sucked, sucked, sucked. There will be assorted minor bitching about the accomodations, food, and available entertainment. If you find yourself getting mightily irritated by the current complaints, I strongly suggest that you bail NOW. I have thrown large events myself, albeit nothing of this scale, and it only gets worse. No one ends up 100% happy, and they are all under the impression that you need to know about it.

-- Anonymous, April 03, 2000

Maybe I'm missing something here, but can't we just mail in money orders? No personal info there, and they cost 50 cents! :)

-a

-- Anonymous, April 03, 2000

Hrm. Well this thing has certainly gotten blown all out of proportion since I last checked in.

I'm not sure what to say, except that I was certainly hoping and expecting that there would be a good blend of fun and serious at the con.

I joined the committee becuse I have some experience planning sci-fi cons and thought I could contribute something in re: the design of the site.

But then my life swallowed me up and the discussion petered out a bit for a while and I've lost track of what the sam hill is going on.

At any rate, if I made anyone feel bad with anything I said, I apologize.

-- Anonymous, April 03, 2000

June 11? no shit ... guess where I'll be on June 11??? one hint - it's a long way from Sydney. :-)

anna

-- Anonymous, April 03, 2000

Um...Kim? Does this mean that you are *not* going to bring the noisemakers OR the goat?

-- Anonymous, April 03, 2000

I don't really see how it's that farfetched that what you guys were talking about may have offended some people. Not that that explains them calling you (or us, since I did post earlier) losers.. but still. I mean, yeah, it's gonna be partially structured, and as far as the "big names" not talking to anyone.. well, I guess that's going to be up to them who they do and do not talk to. I want to meet Rob and Pamie and some of the other people who are going to be speaking or just going, but I'm not going to be offended if I don't dazzle either of them with my sparkling personality and stunning wit.

For the record, though, I found the discussion about AlternaCon rather hilarious, until it got overly serious.

I don't know.. I feel like everyone is taking everything too seriously, from the joking that originally started "this", to the idea of people taking offense at a joke.

-- Anonymous, April 03, 2000

Staying purposely far away from the overly serious side of this, if anyone wants some suggestions on places in Pittsburgh to do non-structured meeting-up and hanging-out (and yes, drinking heavily if desired), I'd be happy to A) offer what information I've found in my three years here, or B) go out and do some scouting. (I just turned 21 recently, and haven't really gone out and compared most of the bars and clubs yet...it would be fun to have an excuse to do so.)

But I may not get back here for a while, so you'd be better off e-mailing me.

-- Anonymous, April 03, 2000

Well, Emily, that's the whole reason I'm hoping to go, simply to meet some of the people with whom I've become acquainted over the years. There are a few of the speakers whom I'm interested in hearing. And I am definitely reserving the right to goof and drink...

-- Anonymous, April 03, 2000

Just because I want to add my two cents.

I live exactly 30 minutes away from Pittsburgh, and we're still in the discussion stage of whether or not we're attending...

The only reason I want to go is to see my pal Shelley from Shelleyness...and I'm not really sure how to register if I don't want a room, etc.

And the only interesting place to drink is a gay bar, Pegasus, on Liberty Avenue. But it is where they found some guys head chopped off a few years back...

*grin*

-- Anonymous, April 03, 2000

I would love to go to Pittsburgh, and the list of speakers is fabulous... (Steve Schlachlin? Tesserae? Pamie?) However, my in-laws are all there, which while it would mean cheap lodging, would also mean shining a spotlight on the journal. They sorta know it's there but don't really, and I'd as soon keep it that way.

HOW CAN DREAMA NOT HAVE MENTIONED THE CARNEGIE MUSEUM OF NATURAL HISTORY?? They've got the specimen T-rex! (We all know what's important, we do.) The History Museum, in the olde ice house, is great, too.

Dreama's pretty darn great herself. Oh, well, I've got enough events this year to choke a horse anyway, and we can't afford the time if we can afford the money.

However, June 11 is now firmly on my calendar.

-- Anonymous, April 03, 2000

Or if not Pegasus, maybe Donnie's... I think a journaller trip to the local leather bar could be amusing. ;)

-- Anonymous, April 03, 2000

I asked my first question and what a response!

Beth I am sorry that organizers of journalcon are to into online politics to ask you to be a speaker. I was also sorry to see that the organziers are attacking people that have questions instead of answering them. I just looked at the registration form because I am pretty close to Pittsburgh but after seeing Dreama in action I dont want to fill it out with my name and home adress either and give her access to that kind of personal information about me. I guess journalcon is really only for people who are freinds of the organizers.

-- Anonymous, April 03, 2000

Jan, I wouldn't assume that it was politics that kept me off the speaker list. (It might have been, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.) They probably just didn't think I'd have anything interesting to say, or that people wouldn't be interested in hearing me speak. And they were probably correct.

[Edited for my written speech impediment, which keeps causing me to type the past tense form of verbs with an "ing" instead of an "ed." This may also have something to do with why I wasn't asked to speak.]

-- Anonymous, April 03, 2000

Okay, I know I already said words to this effect on Dairy-L, but what about those of us under 21? Rob, will you please-oh-please sneak me into a bar and buy me a shot of tequila? *grin*

Seriously, though, I want to meet you, and Pamie, and I don't want to be excluded from shit just 'cos I'm a loser eighteen year old. :)

-- Anonymous, April 03, 2000

Patrick wrote:

"Seeing as how "JournalCon" has three speakers (if you include Jim) who no longer have journals, and John Scalzi, who has claimed never to have had a journal, what, exactly, are we to learn from these people? How to take down your site gracefully? How to turn down Diarist.net awards gracefully?"

Not just gracefully, but with real style and panache, too.

Can't speak for the other speakers, but I'm speaking because they asked me to speak, I'm assuming because I write professionally and full-time as well as writing on my own page for my own amusement (the panel I'm on is "Journaler to Author: Writing as a Career").

I actually plan to say a lot of things there about my opinions of journals and online writing as it relates to professional writing; I suspect you'll be able to learn something, despite the fact that the information is tainted by the fact I am not a "real" online journaler. You are of course free to ignore anything I say if you bother to attend the panel itself; I know everybody will be paying attention to Pamie, anyway.

I'm additionally going to meet friends and socialize; I expect the majority of my time will be spent with a fairly small number of people, though I do plan on attending some of the bigger events and chatting with anyone who deigns to associate with me despite my lack of true "diarist" credentials.

-- Anonymous, April 03, 2000

I'm all about hanging with you, John. You can help me sneak booze to the kiddies...

-- Anonymous, April 03, 2000

Actually, that's my other purpose. Since I don't actually drink myself. Consider me the Official JournalCon Designated Driver. Every assemblage of hundreds of people needs at least one.

-- Anonymous, April 03, 2000

Well I don't know about you all, but I think by June 11th I'll be ready to drink. As if reading this forum hasn't already driven me there. So what If I'm giving birth that day? I'm there, Beth.

-- Anonymous, April 03, 2000

Let me start out by saying that I'm going to journalcon. But, I am starting to have some major concerns about it. Some of it is because I'm going out there all by myself. More importantly, however, is the fact that I'm not one of those high-profile OLJ people. I'm not raking in a huge readership. The probability of meeting someone there that has even seen my site is astronomically small. I'm going in with the (unhealthy?) assumption, like Kim said, that I'll be standing by the platter muttering to myself.

I'm going because I like what I do, and it'll be nice to talk to someone about journaling who isn't going to give me a 'sour milk' face within the first thirty seconds.

But going without worry? Right...

-- Anonymous, April 03, 2000

At the risk of sounding defensive, I hope people realised I was also joking about being a drunken troublemaker. Went out after my show was finished last night, had one schooner and one middy of light beer, no more, and soon found my head pounding as if I'd drunk ten times that amount. Alcohol and I generally don't mix, and in any case I'd probably fall asleep before I could get drunk enough to get rowdy. That said, if Beth is still holding drinks at her place I'll be happy to attend that in spirit if she doesn't mind me staying sober

-- Anonymous, April 03, 2000

Hey, Tim, how are we supposed to read your journal if you aren't constantly shoving it in our faces like a pot farmer on Maui? Give us the URL and you might find yourself making conversation with someone other than the desk clerk.

-- Anonymous, April 04, 2000

Me smart! Me find Tim's journal! (http://johndoe.org/vandewal/)& nbsp [<:)

-- Anonymous, April 04, 2000

I'm probably too late for this discussion, but what the hell.

You know, it's not too late to join those committees and lobby for changes to the program. Why don't the panels appeal to most people? Probably because the JournalCon people could never get more than a handful of people interested in planning the damn thing. I was on board from the very beginning--I have since dropped off because I can't attend due to work--and we couldn't get anyone interested in helping. We posted in our journals, on our notify lists, on diary-L and journals-L, diarist.net, metajournals...you name it, the word was out there.

Nothing. You could have heard a cyber pin drop, I'm telling you.

Now all of a sudden everyone's up in arms about the programming, but does anyone try and actually DO anything about it? Why bother, when we could just plan AlternaCon, a real serious alternative to the convention that would take place in the same area and try to "steal" attendees away from the actual convention?

Geez.

I can't address the issues about finances and all that, and I completely understand the concerns about sending money to a PO box etc. But I can tell you--as far as cost goes, as a committee member of Canada's largest fan-run sci-fi con and an attendee of countless others, $35 bucks registration is an excellent price. Especially for a brand new show. At regular cons, things like dinners and all that are always extra.

I'm personally sorry I'm missing JournalCon. Perhaps the panels don't have the most exciting names in the world--but if you get all those people into one room talking about a subject, it's bound to be interesting. And I'm sure that the committee isn't going to stand at the front of the room with a whip making sure you stay on subject all the time.

And I have yet to be in a gathering of online journallers that don't talk about journalling at some point, usually at LOTS of points. I have friends I met through journalling that I see constantly, and it almost always comes up. Why? Because it's what brought us together, and it's something we still share.

Not to mention--looking at that schedule, those days are hardly jam- packed. The way people have been talking you'd think the website said "Come to JournalCon, where we will chain you to first seventeen other online journallers and then to the wall of a small, dark room where we will then display screen shots of your index pages on an overhead, tell you what's wrong with them, and then have an exciting discussion of the finer points of PageMill! This will be followed by the panel HOW TO BORE YOUR AUDIENCE IN TWELVE EASY STEPS. The day will conclude with the aptly named WHY THE HELL WERE YOU CHOSEN TO SPEAK ANYWAY? YOU DON'T HAVE A JOURNAL AND IF YOU DO, IT SUCKS round table wrestling match. Join us all afterwards in the main room where we will construct an online journalling timetable with crayons and papier-mache."

Personally I think some more creative things would be fun, like some online journalling skits where the Mighty Kymm is played by Kim Rollins and Beth is played by Patrick and Rob Rummel-Hudson appears in a guest slot as Slackathor, the Procrastinating Barbarian, but that's just me.

A very long-winded Melissa

Planning A Sky: http://users.snip.net/~mel4/planningasky.html

-- Anonymous, April 04, 2000

Every single time anyone gets together to work on a project for this community, the masses start griping. It never fails. Why weren't we told? Why weren't we invited? This is going to suck! You're leaving out the teens, the alternatively pantsed, the friends of gophers, etc.

Listen to me, you bunch of whiny freaks: To BE involved, you've got to GET involved. Action. It necessitates you speaking up and saying you'd like to help.

If you're not involved, if you're waiting around to be picked, then you have my cordial invitation to shut the hell up.

-- Anonymous, April 04, 2000

Friends of Gophers! Alarm! The humans know too much! Flee the surface world! Flee!

We'll meet again, Alternatively Pantsed Squadron, and it will be most inconvenient for you when we do!

-- Anonymous, April 04, 2000

Now that sort of sales tactic is so charming, I'm all aflutter. "Spend money and your annual vacation (if you are among those that have either) to come join us, and if you need a little convincing that it's worth either of that and dare to ask questions or raise concerns after we chastise you for NOT raising concerns, we'll call you names and tell you to shut up! And don't you DARE make a joke see, cos this is gonna be some *serious* fun and there will be no unsanctioned frivolity allowed! See how much fun you'll have when you join us??"

Fortunately, I think there will be enough people who DON'T think that way that will show up, and that will make it fun anyway. But right now, it's very much *in spite of* the PR being put out - not by the ones who are 'whining' about it from the outside, but those whining from the inside.

Can't you guys get a private group to vent about us out of our earshot? (you're gonna need, you have a half a year to go) Because when you speak about it TO us like this, you're speaking as representatives of what the event itself is all about, and you're not doing a lot of trust-building like this.

You were dead-on correct in your comment to journal-l, Gabby...so if you don't mind, I'd really like it if all the people I want to see weren't going to decide to not show up because of what those who ARE involved are saying.

-- Anonymous, April 04, 2000

It's probably important to point out that I am not, strictly speaking, actively involved with JournalCon. I resigned and assumed a purely advisory position about five months ago, or so, which has resulted in me having fuck all to do with the structure of the event as it now stands.

My comments are solely my own and represent no official statement of any kind.

Furthermore, I'm not going to attend JournalCon.

However.

Having worked on a number of projects for this community and seen this exact same situation pop up, time and time again, I've had quite my fill of whining and pouting, the majority of which is done by people who could never be bothered to get involved in the first place and who have the temerity to whine about being scolded for being apathetic.

We - those of us who've put our time, effort and interest into these projects - can't seem to win with you people.

Frustrated? You have no idea.

-- Anonymous, April 04, 2000

Personally I think some more creative things would be fun, like some online journalling skits where the Mighty Kymm is played by Kim Rollins and Beth is played by Patrick and Rob Rummel- Hudson appears in a guest slot as Slackathor, the Procrastinating Barbarian, but that's just me.

I guess that gives me a few months to make a new Slackathor costume. That old one is just getting too ratty...

-- Anonymous, April 04, 2000

The people that are apathetic aren't involved in the discussion on either side. They're ignoring it... that's apathetic.

So far, it's been mostly silent...folks waiting for some direction. It so happened that a little direction came from a question posed here rather than through official channels - but the people commenting on it are not apathetic - they've got questions and opinions, and in only a VERY few messages is there a signal of "I'm totally opposed to the whole idea, and nothing will change my mind" These are questions and comments from people who could be persuaded either way. I am amazed that instead of using that as a positive opportunity, it was immediately greeted with "How DARE you?!"

Sure, it's frustrating to have to respond to negative interest - but if hard work goes into something that matters, isn't it WORTH it to overcome that frustration enough not let the personal frustration speak out and drown out the goal itself? If the goal is to have journalcon represent journaling...well, guess what? That includes the ones that require a little extra coaxing before they feel like it really DOES include them, and not just a small subset of journalers.

The frustration works both ways... but damn, if the people who HAVE already expended effort into the thing are willing to skunk it up with attitude problems, then what sort of message does that give anyone who isn't sure if they want to commit anything to the project?

This isn't confined to journaling.... it's a fact of life in ANY group where volunteers try to organize hobbyists of any sort. I just spent the last year watching this go on with my HS reunion planning committee (end result: the head organizer is no longer on speaking terms with ANYONE because she flatly couldn't stand being questioned, and couldn't resist making everyone feel like she hated them everytime they did ask, and an 'unofficial' reunion is happening in another location and that's where all but a few are going... in other words, the reunion itself is dead.) It happens... it's part of what the planners have to plan FOR. That's why you get the private venting space - so you can scream and bitch and moan and then come out on the other side smiling and ANSWER THE DAMN QUESTIONS reasonably. Stop acting (and I don't mean you in specific, I mean anyone who volunteers for something like this) like people should just trust you when you're asking them to lay out big money and time investments - and then declare that they aren't really investing in anything of value.

If you want people to participate, and you aren't their employer or god, you can't bully them or demand it... you have to coax and sell, sell sell them on the idea of wanting to participate. You don't do that by making clear that if they dispute you in any way, you're going to ignore them or switch from planner-mode to being personally mad.

And yes, it's ok if you hate having to waste time with all of that - that's why professional convention planners make a KILLING, so that private people don't have to put up with the bullshit. But if that's not an option, it boils down to what matters - the con, or the egos?

And if it's the egos, don't expect anyone with a lesser commitment to take a higher road than the planners are.

-- Anonymous, April 04, 2000

Sure, gophers are tunneling North American rodents, but are they divas?

-- Anonymous, April 04, 2000

Gabby, et al Herein are my opinions and only mine, and are opinions only. Not attempts to brainwash, propagandize, etc.

Conventions are fine and enjoyable for those who can afford the time and money to attend. I am all for them, may there be many, many of them.

But what really puzzles me is the people who get enraged and feel threatened when some of us poke fun at things.

One of the things that shows me that I am cared for is teasing. When you make jokes at me I feel secure in your friendship.

Now all of a sudden it seems like you all feel as if we are desecrating the flag or something.

By our joking around, are we taking any money out of the convention's pocket ? Or is the outburst of you people going to cost you all in the end ?

Shit, hopefully we are accepting acquaintances not enemies and engaged in doing our own particular things.

If political figures and public icons can stand to have fun poked at them - - - - - - do you want to outlaw good natured teasing ? I didn't see any gravel in the air until the uptight contingent started boiling.

Come on guys, shake hands and DON'T come out fighting. Officially declare a state of peace, please.

-- Anonymous, April 04, 2000

Well said, Doug. Glad to have you around.

I do want to point out that Ryan, who is also on the organizing committee, has been quite gracious about the discussion here and elsewhere. (Well, okay, I'm not on journal-l and I was only on diary- l for a day or so, so maybe he's suddenly lost his temper ... but I doubt it.) In fact, I think he welcomes discussion, even when it's heated and even when it might be classified as griping. Another note: I keep hearing that the organizers of JournalCon have been soliciting input for months. That may very well be true. But until the forums opened up on diarist.net VERY recently, I had never heard a word about the convention in any forum, except that someone had linked to the JournalCon site back when votes were being solicited for locations. I don't usually subscribe to the various lists, but I do read diarist.net and Metajournals now and then, so I might respectfully suggest some better advertising.

-- Anonymous, April 04, 2000

Well, I wasn't pimpimg myself out because I didn't want to look desperate for hits or anything. Because I'm not desperate for hits.

Now, if that isn't the most desperate loking sentence I've ever written...

fp - Fundamental Paradigm

-- Anonymous, April 04, 2000

This is just like high school. We've got our "in" cliques and then our "losers" off to the side.

All that JournalCON is going to be is some big way-too-serious hoopla where the people are only gonna care about scoring readers so that the number of hits to their pages increase.

-- Anonymous, April 04, 2000

Minor correction, Beth, and one you'd have no way of knowing, except Ryan mentioned it in passing in a diary-l post, since you don't belong to journal-l. I asked at least three times a question about journalcom, what they would like to see and what they would go there for. Ryan was very appreciative and took note of the answers. So at least some parts of the journal world has been quizzed on it, although I'll grant you, not a huge part.--Al of NOVA NOTES....who on the other hand wishes he could go, but probably won't be able to make it.

-- Anonymous, April 04, 2000

I'm sure you're right, Mac. I'm sure it will be just like high school, because everything is just like high school. At least, everything is just like high school if you keep thinking along those lines for your entire life.

I really doubt that anyone is going to spend a thousand bucks or so just to increase their hit count. I'm not sure how attending JournalCon would increase anyone's hit count, anyway, any more than being on Diary-L increases your hit count. (Being active on Diary-L can mean that you have a widely known journal. It has fuck- all to do with whether you have a widely read journal.)

Because I think it's time that someone laid this on the line so that you can all stop spending money on ineffectual means of increasing your hit counts, I'll give you Xeney's Three Step Plan for Getting Mondo Hits. Pay attention.

You can:

• Piss me off and get me write about your journal as the first item in my weblog (preferably before a week long hiatus), and piss me off in an interesting enough fashion that I start a forum topic about you.
  
  
• Suck up to Pamie in an amusing and funny way so that she puts you on her links page.
  
  
• Buy Kymm a gift, and include your URL on the tag. She'll link to you when she thanks you.

Ta-da. You're famous, and all it cost you was a few bath salts and your self respect.

-- Anonymous, April 05, 2000

Beth Wrote:

"Because I think it's time that someone laid this on the line so that you can all stop spending money on ineffectual means of increasing your hit counts, I'll give you Xeney's Three Step Plan for Getting Mondo Hits. Pay attention.

You can:

Piss me off and get me write about your journal as the first item in my weblog (preferably before a week long hiatus), and piss me off in an interesting enough fashion that I start a forum topic about you."

I speak from experience. It works!

-- Anonymous, April 05, 2000

But wasn't it worth it? Especially considering how much I happen to need more bath salts!

-- Anonymous, April 05, 2000

I hassled Rob in these forums, and his hits went up, and he won his nominated diarist award. I know Beth hassled Rob, too, but I doubt she drove the people who voted for her award to subscribe to Rob. I'm thinking Aaron Spelling could replace the exiting 90210 with a prime-time soap centered on me, and the journalers I try to destroy. I withhold public criticism, and your hits go down, until you or your wife sleeps with me. They'll call it Mike Gets slapped In The Face Every Week. They'll get Brian Dennehy to play Jim Valvis. Damn, I guess that means they'll get Pee Wee Herman to play me. I predict lots of chase scenes. Uh, oh, I'm typing down my random thoughts again. I better delete this before I subm

-- Anonymous, April 05, 2000

Oh, is that all it takes?

Uh. Hold on. Finding inspiration.

OK, here goes. Xeney, nanny nanny boo boo. I rule and you suck, I rule and you suck. Pamie (if you're reading this), I love you more than Mahir. I kiss you! And Kymm, your gift will be in the mail as soon as I get your mailing address.

OK, I sit back and await Mondo Hits now, is that how it works? (ps, I was just kidding about how I rule and you suck, Beth, you don't hate me now, do you? are you still my friend?)

Lurve,
Jan

-- Anonymous, April 05, 2000

Is this why I keep getting forwarded "joke of the week" spam?

Hmmm...

-- Anonymous, April 06, 2000

I've just read through a big chunk of this discussion about Journalcon. I'm not sure if I'm new to on-line journaling or not. I've only recently started keeping a daily on-line journal, but have been posting my parenting diary from the 1970s on my web site for some time, so I'm either brand new or predate all of you :-). I wanted to mention that one of the reasons why I started writing a diary in the first place was meeting and getting to know Steve Schalchlin ("Living in the Bonus Round"), who was one of the first 100 diaries on the Internet, still going strong today. He's one of the scheduled speakers and I guarantee that his presentation will be worth attending. He tells his story at schools around the country, and always to incredible response. If you plan to attend the convention, be sure not to miss him.

-- Anonymous, April 06, 2000

So, you don't think JournalCon will be justa convention for people to pimp and increase site traffic?

I quote, from Andrea (http://girlhero.org/dream): "I am bringing yo yos. I am sooo bad at keeping secrets. hehe. I found a great deal for customised yo yos ) I have to pimp my page any way I can."

This was found on the diarist.net boards.

I rest my case.

-- Anonymous, April 06, 2000

Uh, Mac, if your entire case is based on the fact that ONE person is spending a ridiculous amount of money to pull an admittedly cute stunt that probably won't earn her one extra permanent reader ... um, okay, your case kinda stinks.

Even if there really is a whole contingent of really dumb journalers who are going to be handing out pens, notepads, condoms, and cocktail napkins marked with their URLs, I maintain that all of the foregoing is still a really lousy way to increase traffic, and I think most people know that. It's no different than putting your URL in a sig file and spamming everyone. Might get you a visitor now and then, but there's no long term increase in traffic.

-- Anonymous, April 06, 2000

given as i've been told that i should pimp my page more, mabye i should use that condom idea...

-Tim http://www.johndoe.org/vandewal/

-- Anonymous, April 06, 2000

I don't have an online journal. However, I'd like to go on record as saying that I'll read anyone's journal if they'll bribe me with a yo- yo.

Honestly, any toy would probably do the trick.

-- Anonymous, April 06, 2000

You can't trust a word that Andrea person says. She said of her site, "Now with more naked pictures!"

I can't find any naked pictures. There aren't any to be found, dammit.

So I'll believe the yo-yos when I see them.

(She did say "Gabby is evil," though, in one of her entries. So it's not all lies.)

-- Anonymous, April 06, 2000

The sweet, orgasmic, siren call of the yo-yo... I'm not made of stone, damn it!

-- Anonymous, April 06, 2000

Oh, why do you hate me so, Beth?

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

Mac, have you tried laser sounds? I'm thinking laser sounds will make Beth love you. It's not like, as guys, we've come up with any better ideas.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

I would like a girlhero yo yo, I think.

You can't get a group of online types together without them getting up with the schwag.

this is my fave schwag of all!

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

That's pretty low, Mike. You know full well a laser killed my grandpa, yet you bring it up anyway.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

I don't hate you, Mac. I'm just confused about the sex change.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

All I'm saying is that for conventions in general, you have to make sure that the amount of free stuff that you get is worth the cost of the convention itself. Otherwise it's a losing proposition.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

...yes Sir, JournalCon2000 produced the strangest, yet most satisfying porno movie I ever saw: Yo-Yo's and Laser Ho's. And who could forget Dave's Grampa as the Scottish Chicago beat cop who died from laser sounds taking down Al Capone, the bootlegger who was trapped in the body of a man? It was yo-gasmic.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

I don't much care if I earn a single permanent reader, Beth. Most of what I say is in jest, and should be taken like that. When I say I'm going to pimp, it should be taken about as seriously as when I say I'm going to have sex with every guy there in the hopes of getting linked. Or when I said I was going to get pregnant to raise my hit count. Or when I said I had more naked pictures, ha ha. Or when I said I was going to see if DV had horns. ;)

Handing out girlhero yo yos (if I bring them to JC, I may just randomly mail them out to people, this means you, WOB ;) would bring me inordinate amounts of joy. I can't explain it to you, you either get it or you don't. :)

-a

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

Woops I think that all came out a bit wrong. That wasn't supposed to all be directed at Beth. :P

I just resent the implication that -anyone- would spend that much money for nothing more than a pimpfest. I wasn't too keen on the whole JC thing until recently, when I started seeing it in a new light, and now there are several people I'd love to meet, and some things I'd like to do.

And baby, I'm all about toys. I don't think there can be a much better feeling than seeing your baby's name on a yo yo. ;)

-a

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

Oh man, I am so about yo-yos. Where do we find this cheap deal? Maybe I'll order some with a cute saying on them or something, just for fun.

Give us a url. :)

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

I should add that I'm not going to JournalCon and am unlikely to put my url on a yo-yo anyway, so you'll have no competition in the yo-yo- giving-out department. :) I just think it's a very cool idea.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

Andrea, I really don't appreciate you stealing my idea. Now I'm going to have to have sex with all the guys and the women.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

Andrea, I'm sorry if my post came out wrong. I actually assumed you were doing the yo-yo's because you thought it would be fun (and I do think it's very cute -- I think girlhero yo-yo's would rock), and I couldn't believe anyone thought you were seriously trying to pimp for readers. Some people probably will visit your journal because the url is right there on their yo-yo, but of course it will be up to the journal itself to make them stick around.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

Alright, I'm missing alot by not going, but now I'm not gonna get a YO-YO!!!! I wanna yo-yo. I won't get one at my reunion. How much moree can one person endure?

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

I'm with you, Kymm. Handing out yo-yos is the coolest idea ever, and I want one! Yes, I do. Too bad I can't afford JournalCon.

Incidentally, this also makes me think Andrea's a cool chick with a Childlike Sense of Whimsy (tm) and I'd want to get to know her (and her journal) anyway. So the pimp works. :)

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

Well nowit's just starting to sound like fun dammit!

Mo-Mo, how about we carpool out there? Road-trip?

Of course, with gas prices what they are, it'd almost be cheaper to fly... but then again, if we drove, we'd have a car to tool around the city in! AND! We could SLEEP IN THE CAR! Save money on the hotel! We could bring an ice chest with food in it so that we save money on meals. Hell, maybe we could kidnap Beth and have her speak from the hood of the car on the street side.

JournalCon! Now in Joley's Neon!

Off to email Dreama with My Wonderful Idea!

-- Anonymous, April 08, 2000

Watch yourself Joline. Joking around about journalcon and displaying any sort of lightheartedness about it at all is what made Dreama behave so poorly towards the people who posted here in the first place and show us what journalcon was really goingto be like. You are not allowed to think about the con as being fun in any way or kid around about it. You can only shut up and not have any kind of opinion about it according tothe organizers.

-- Anonymous, April 08, 2000

personally, i think a yo-yo, condoms, some pixie stix and a barrel of monkeys would be a kickass journalalternacon goody bag.

andrea, you're sponge worthy ;P

kel

-- Anonymous, April 15, 2000

wo0p, I guess I should have checked back with this or something. I just found out that with my current deal I'd have to order 250 yo yos (eep!!) which I am NOT going to do. :) I am looking for someplace else with a smaller minimum number, but I am sure that no matter how many I get I will have alot left. I made a note of who said they wanted one, I'll send some out. :)

I think I came off harsher than I intended earlier and I didn't want that. I thought the yo yo idea was cool (second only to sex! ;) but I don't think it'd get any extra readers, I think it's up to the person to figure out what crap my journal is all on their own! :)

-a

-- Anonymous, April 15, 2000