If memory serves, you were getting some scans and tests in the recent past/immediate future. those of us who have followed you for the last year or so care how these came out. If you could let us know, we could let the inquirers who care over on EZBoard know.

Chuck

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), March 29, 2000

Answers

Gosh, Chuck, I though "Shakey" would have a lifetime membership card over at EZB. (chuckle) I found you thge most reasonable of the old sysops, Chuck, and I am little surprised you've homesteaded EZB. I thought you better understood the value of open discourse.

Ah well, I do hope you find "Shakey" and that you are both in good health. Have fun at EZB.

-- Ken Decker (kcdecker@worldnet.att.net), March 29, 2000.

My dear Mr Decker.

I was in the process of telling you my thoughts concerning your charater sir...But in mid stride, I realized that you sir! Are just not worth the effort, nor the time either.

So have a good day, as many of them as you can.

"As for me...I Shall finish the Game"!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Shakey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-- Shakey (in_a_bunker@forty.feet), March 29, 2000.

"Shakey,"

Y2K is over. You were wrong. I imagine you'll find any number of reasons to stay in your bunker. While you are waiting for civilization to crumble, consider this.... It does not take any "character" to retreat into a fortress and pull up the drawbridge. The heroic are those who venture out and try to make the world a better place.

-- Ken Decker (kcdecker@worldnet.att.net), March 29, 2000.

Dear mr. Decker,

Sir you are a fool...And I wish you would get out in the oil patch and help with the flow,pressure, folume monitors etc. on the oil/gas lines. You know...All those little ( digital) automatic switches that seem to be in close relationshp to just about every mysterious rupture ( and there have been a lot of them of late).Then try and tell me why that the oil PTB are trying to re-activate a pipe line that is 50 years old (analog controls/with manal backups).

I will not get into the numerous refineries that have gone up in flame and smoke! Y2K singing her siren's song right now ( and for some months more to come).

How is your little town running?

"As for me...I shall finish the Game"!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Shakey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-- Shakey (in_a_bunker@forty.feet), March 29, 2000.

Addendium;

As for the venturing out..Sir! I have put in hours untold helping to make some sence out of those self same control systems out in the very same feilds I suggested that you get out into. But alas...I cannot do that any more, for personal reasons. I'll sit on the side lines and root for the poor people beating their brains out keeping "your heat and gas " going to you! And listen to a city manager tell me how good life is after Y2K...

"And I still will finish this Game"!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Shakey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-- Shakey (in_a_bunker@forty.feet), March 29, 2000.

Shakey, good to have you posting again. I too remember you telling us all on the old forum that you were going in the next day for some serious testing regarding cancer from exposure to asbestos. Many people expressed their kind wishes to you and I dont recall you ever getting back to us on this matter. That is what Chuck is referring to and you still have not addressed this subject. Did you make this up to put yourself in a sympathetic position or are you not willing to discuss this any further? Just curious.

-- Sifting (through@the.rubble), March 29, 2000.

Rubble:

As to Shaky, you might try the following:

Apology

Not a fan of the software on ezboard, so I'm not sure that this will work.

Best wishes,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), March 29, 2000.

Z

I dont visit the EZ board so why should I apologize. Also, I dont buy the whole story anyway. This incident took place weeks ago so why would he still be waiting for results. Also, he claims to desire to work out these problems in private then why did he tell us all about it to begin with. Of course I will take some crap for saying this but Shakey isnt passing the smell test here.

-- Sifting (through@the.rubble), March 29, 2000.

Rubble:

I am not asking you to apologize. That is the name of the thread on ezboard.

Best wishes,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), March 29, 2000.

Shakey,

Let's put aside questions about your alleged medical issues. You were quite wrong about Y2K. There is a huge difference between glitches in the petroleum industry and the TEOTWAWKI scenarios you were touting last year. Yes, I pay a bit more at the pump for gasoline... but I have every major (and minor) service I enjoyed last year. No need for a bunker, canned goods, bottled water or a BayGen radio.

And my small town did quite well on rollover... having avoided any foolish Y2K expenditures. All of our municipal services are fine.

As for your suggestion about working in the oil fields... that is just silly. What is your point? Are you suggesting I'd see Y2K failures first hand? If you have definitive proof of Y2K-related problems... do tell. Where's your data? Or are you just extending last year's paranoia where every accident has ominous overtones?

By the way, the last time I checked the "poor people" in the petroleum industry were pretty well paid. Or do you have evidence of "slave labor" in Texas?

If you want to engage in a serious discussion and provide evidence of your claims... do it. Don't waste everyone's time with more idle speculation.

-- Ken Decker (kcdecker@worldnet.att.net), March 29, 2000.

Does it bother anybody else that Chuck, (a sysop at the EZB) is over here being nice/recruiting our biggest doomer? (Shakey)

Chuck,

You were a HUGE part of the censorship, and partially responsible for spreading FUD, at TB. Are you still trying to that? How much does Yourdon pay you? Hasn't your wife divorced you yet? (Of course, not! You keep her quiet by tying her up and putting a gag in her mouth like you did the pollies, don't you?)

-- (just @asking. questions.), March 29, 2000.

Strange thing about y2k and the forums, hanging around long enough, I came to see some aspects about almost everyone that I like, or related to, or had compassion for, be it doomer or knowledeable optomist, or plain old poly. Chuck was one of them, I believe he got a little better about allowing fairness toward the end, ah, what the heck, live and let live..;)

-- FactFinder (FactFinder@bzn.com), March 29, 2000.

NOT a FactFinder,

Let me guess,....YOU weren't banned from EZB, because you're philosphically similar to those people, aren't you?

(I know, I've watched you.)

-- (just @asking .questions), March 29, 2000.

C'mon folks... at least Chuck was capable of an occasional rant against the doomsayers. And he seemed to understand the benefit of an open forum.

EZB isn't really about fact finding or information sharing. It's a social forum for individuals who share a similar philosophy. Chuck obviously shares some degree of pessimism about modern society... at least enough to gain acceptance from the Yourdonites. And he's probably bonded with Old Git, Squire, Lipton and the others. Of all the sysops, I dislike Chuck the least... by a good measure.

-- Ken Decker (kcdecker@worldnet.att.net), March 29, 2000.

I agree Ken,

Chuck seemed to be the balance that let the forum run less obstructed.The one with more of an even keel and more of an ideological dislike of censorship.

I am still surprised he agreed to stay,along with Sysman.

Philosophically(sp?) I know I have that pessimistic nature about modern society too,but my disdain of dictatorships and censors outweighs my doomer tendacies.Besides these tendacies and others are well stimulated here.

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), March 29, 2000.

My Dear Z,

In reply to your time reference, it was excately 2 and 1/2 weeks since I took the tests..Believe me I know; I am sweating "bullets" waiting for the x-ray results.

The tests are tied up with my union ( and the attorneys) that they have as our spokespersons. I well imagine that I will have more tests to face, as they are going after the manufactors of asbestos. And I am, by far, not alone in my current delimma either. There are, it seems as it where; several of us involved.

But be that as it may..Sir I have asked for no pity, nor consideration from any one in my adult life.I do not PLAN to so now. My respondse was to Chuck (who showed concern for my welfare). And not to any one on this forum specfically.

And as to the pasting of my posting over at the "other" forum here. That posting was to those persons who I was concerned that I was causing worry to. Not to any one here. It is readily apparent that many here are cheered when others have problems arise.

So...Be cheered up then.

But in spite of it all...

"I will finish the Game"!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Shakey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-- Shakey (in_a_bunker@forty.feet), March 29, 2000.

Shakey,

Allthough we have never introduced ourselves I wish you only the very best in dealing with your crisis and would never have cheer in anothers troubles.

I too saw your post and I also thought it was very nice of Chuck to inquire about your well being.

You my friend shall finish the game!

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), March 29, 2000.

You people MUST be kidding! He censored people, if you don't believe me, ask him. He had access to the delete key and he used it every time he had the opportunity (as afforded to him by his majesty, Ed Yourdon)

Chuckie is as RESPONSIBLE as the rest of them.

-- (just@asking .questions), March 29, 2000.

NOT a FactFinder, Let me guess,....YOU weren't banned from EZB, because you're philosphically similar to those people, aren't you?

(I know, I've watched you.) -- (just @asking .questions), March 29, 2000.

just@asking, YOu haven't "watched" enough then, for you are quite clueless! Had you watched "closely", you would have seen that I was one of the very few who presented facts at TB2000 as to why y2k was going to be no big deal. So, what were YOU doing at that time, ;) As far as EZB, I assume this must be Ed's new board? Well, I don't know if I was ever banned or not, for I've never been there, and would not...perhaps you also weren't "watching" when I argued against the banning of people at TB2000 and those who wan'ted to go to the new "Ed" forum?

-- FactFinder (FactFinder@bzn.com), March 29, 2000.

As someone who has known Chuck for over a quarter of a century I feel "obligated" to set a couple of you all on the "Straighter" path. 1. I have seem him agonize over a thread, curse, swear and have "extended conversations with persons not present" because he felt so strongly opposed to expressed opinions and then NOT delete them. 2.Of the 2 times in all the years I have known him to completly lose his temper- ONE of them was due to a drunken insult to a person of another race (and CHUCK was sober) and the other involved ME (no more on that topic). 3. In the last 5-7 years Chuck has literally SUFFERED both insult and injury to maintain the existence and increased the membership by 150% of a a volunteer group dedicated to providing public service when the paid bureaucrat "liasion" publicly admitted that they had tried to kill the group because of the "financial drain"- we generated 3-5 times our budget annually in directed donations.... He felt that there was no other organization who was doing it at all, no less better. I think this has reflected in his efforts here- What would some of you feel if your personal information- name, address, phone # were published and you were the subject of violent threats? What if they threatened YOUR family???? 4. I'm CERTAIN that the other sysops would agree that riding herd on what I can only describe as people who would sometimes have to grow up to sound like 2 year old's would make herding cats look easy. 5. I WILL CONFESS- that there have been times I have signed on, read the current threads, and tracked Chuck down across the country to ask him if I could PLEASE delete the outrageously obscene "Stuff", so it wouldn't have to wait until he could read it----- Now I love a good pun, Dieter you can make me laugh, I loved the frlians and cats threads, but I don't relish verbal vomit. And yet, sometimes, Chuck'd say- let's wait and see how it develops, so if anyone could be accused of having a hair-trigger it's me.... 'da wife PS has ANYONE heard from GB? Now I'm worried...

-- Confessions from Lurker in Chief & Resident Editor (rienzoo@en.com), March 29, 2000.

Just asking,

I am not suggesting that Chuck is a saint,he certainly did use the delete key but not as blatantly as the others.I know your going to say that there is no tolerable degree of censorship and I definetly agree but what I do surmize from reading his posts both then and then again during the move,is that he has trouble believing in the company policy.

What I do castigate THEM ALL for is not standing up for the right thing when the move occured and it came out into the open.Because they had the ability,via the software,to lock a confirmed asshole out of the forum.The act by anyone on the ez board not to stand up against censorship is gutless.

The new policy should have been;everyone has a clean slate,rock and roll.Instead,it was mute and control.

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), March 29, 2000.

Just a SMALL point. there is NO WAY for a moderator/sysop on a Greenspun board to block ANYONE. ONLY PHIL can do this as it means sitting down at HIS computer and setting up the (ORACLE ??) software to do the block. And Phil, to quote from GWTW, quite frankly doesn't give a

C

OTFR will confirm this I'm sure.

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), March 30, 2000.

Chuck, I believe capn was talking about the EZB software.

And the cloak and dagger way the "bannings" were handled.

-- Hoff (hoff_meister@my-deja.com), March 30, 2000.

Well, well,...what do we have here.

Facts are facts; not only did Chuck NOT stand up for free speech, he actively participated in the deletions of five polly's last year. He is partially responsible for people moving, spending more money on preps, and in some cases, spouses leaving spouses.

He knows it. You know it. And, I know it.

Sometimes I feel bad for you, Chuck. I don't know how you live with yourself because I know you have a conscience. However, when I think about you banning and deleting people now, I don't feel sorry for you anymore. I especially don't feel sorry for you because you recently kicked me out of live chat, but guess what? You can't do that here.

Here, I have a voice.

As long as you come here, I'm going to remind you of what you did last year. For the rest of your life, you're going to have to live with this, because I'll never forget all the things I wanted to say, and couldn't because you wouldn't let me.

I thank God I don't live in the same town as you, or any of the other sysops, because, if I did, I would make it my life's work to make sure everyone of your neighbors knew what type of man you really are.

I gotta go. The rage, hate, and even pity, I feel for you is eating me up.

Have a nice life.

~*~

-- (Ladylogic@...), March 30, 2000.

Laura you said:

"As long as you come here, I'm going to remind you of what you did last year. For the rest of your life, you're going to have to live with this, because I'll never forget all the things I wanted to say, and couldn't because you wouldn't let me."

Works both ways honey.

-- tit-for-tat (tit-for-tatt@tit-for-tatt.xcom), March 30, 2000.

For whatever nonrational reason, I find myself liking Chuck. He never seemed to have the mean streak of Old Git or Russ Lipton. And he certainly seemed more grounded than Diane Squire.

This said, I disagree with his actions as a sysop at the old forum. I'm also disappointed that Chuck chose to join Yourdon's closed community. It seems ironic that he was so incensed by a racist comment... and yet has chosen to play bouncer at a private club.

As for you, Mrs. Rienzo, we did not ask for Chuck to serve as forum sysop. His activities as forum censor did not improve the forum one iota. In fact, the double-standard tacitly endorsed by the sysops simply aggravated the situation. The delete-on-sight policy was an affront to anyone who values freedom of expression... or even the notion that writing should be judged by its content, not its authorship.

Your husband may be a wonderful man. As forum sysop, however, he was just one of the plantation owners... albeit one more sympathetic to the plight of those in the field.

-- Ken Decker (kcdecker@worldnet.att.net), March 30, 2000.

Works both ways honey.

It sure does. LOL.

BTW, have you made up your mind yet as to why exactly you're so upset with Laura?

-- (hmm@hmm.hmm), March 30, 2000.

I feel compelled to respond here. The comment about Chuck and his wife was so disgusting, it made me ill. Shame on you! Chuck, I apologize on behalf of the good-hearted people here who would never wish such things on anyone, or dream of making such a vile comment. I believe it's safe to say that the good far out-weigh the bad.

And Shakey, I do care about what happens to you. There are some genuinely good caring people who I know feel the same. I wish you the best of health and of life. If there is ever anything I can do to help you or anyone here, I will gladly do it.

May peace, love, and forgiveness find all of your hearts.

Cin

-- cin (cinlooo@aol.corn), March 30, 2000.

May Truth, Honesty, and Forthrightness also find your hearts.

-- Sifting (through@the.rubble), March 30, 2000.

Shakey-

I'm wishing the best for you too. Please let us know how things are going.

-- Debra (yourinmy@prayers.com), March 30, 2000.

"Truth, Honesty, and Forthrightness"

"peace, love, and forgiveness"

Thanks for reminding me, Sift & Cin.

I was angry with Chuck when I wrote that post. Obviously, I've been angry with him and the other sysops for a long time. A funny thing happened today though. After I wrote that post to let him know angry I was,...actually I was hurt....I felt like a burden was lifted.

I know in his heart he thought/thinks he's doing the right thing, and it pains me to see a fellow human being be so dead-set in his ways; expecially on an issue as important as censorship because it affects everyone's life, even if they don't recognize it.

However, being upset with Chuck isn't going to do me, or him any good. I've never read the Bible, but I think it says something about forgiving your enemies; and I don't think truer words have ever been spoken. I'm a human being and I mess up sometimes, just like Chuck and cavscout, and everybody else in the world, and I guess we all need to be forgiven something. I promise to work on forgiving people in the future, 'cause Lord knows, I'm not perfect and need forgiveness too.

I'm sorry, Chuck. I hope we all have a better life; including you.

~*~

-- (Ladylogic@.....), March 30, 2000.

Laura,

That was a very cool way to respond,I'm glad you thought and reflected on this,and I bet you are too.

Hoff,

Thanks,that is exactly what I meant.

Cin,

"I believe it's safe to say that the good far out-weigh the bad."

Yes Maam!,I too feel It's more than safe to say.

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), March 30, 2000.

Except for this: LL is still nutz and collecting info on everyone.

Whether to write a book or some nefarious reason, it doesn't matter.

She cannot be trusted.

-- Danger Will Robinson! (curly_larry@moe.stooges), March 30, 2000.

~~~Shakey~~~~,

Yeah, when you find out what's what with your lungs, please let us know.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), March 30, 2000.

Danger: We've seen her actions and reactions the past several months and you are dead on about her. Normal people do not act like her and Lord knows we've seen her in action many times.

Hmmmm: I'm surprised you had to ask the question why people are still pissed at Laura. Uncle Deedah summed it up very well.

-- tit-4-tat (tit-4-tat@tit-4-tattt.xcom), March 30, 2000.

If you don't stand up against censorship, and if you make an arbitrary decision to delete a post, under the guise of some biased decision making process, then you're no better than the other Sysops.

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), March 30, 2000.

Danger and tit...

Please please please don't ruin this thread with your crap about LL. This is not about you, or about her. It's about Shakey. Can't we just have one thread that doesnt degenerate into oblivion? Please show a little respect.

-- cin (cinlooo@aol.corn), March 30, 2000.

Ain't there ever a time to just let it go? And quit the polly vs doomer crap (notice small case) He or She done this or that,it is trivial nonsense at this stage of the game,it is damn near April!

Am I the most pessimistic son of a bitch in the valley ? NO.Am I watchful and apprehensive about the world we live in.HELL YES!!!

We all make mistakes,sometimes VERY bad mistakes,but hopefully people give you a chance to redeem yourself.I would hope those on both end of the extremes could just let the Y2K bullshit die, and do something we all love to do Discuss,Argue,Learn,Rant,Stir Shit,Be Funny,Chit-Chat and Find Commaraderie.

At least let's try to start moving on with what the internet/this forum has to offer.

Let bygones be bygones.

PS I may throw this up as a new thread.

Night Ya'll

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), March 30, 2000.

Ah the joy of the resurrection of the Famous Flaming Forum Fracas!!! I am reading the thread with glee. However, in defense of our insecure Friend, let me state that within 48 hours I have been in the vicinity of the Phillips explosion, the Tire Fire, The Acrylic Acid Tank (overheat is a temperate description) "problem" and the warehouse fire of this a.m. which the HFD didn't want to discuss until they could have all their facts straight concerning the haz mat involved (but, by God, evacuations and concerns over water run-off were right up front), plus the contaminated drinking water in North Texas and the unplanned shut downs and dead porpoises (which do fall outside 48 hours, but within one month). I'm almost ready to dig a bunker but I might hit a pipe line. All this enhances my paranoia....gives that edge of the exquisite to the feeling that things are out of whack-by the way, my beloved LASCO C3 was displaying only 1/2 a frame yesterday. Must be due to solar flares, which will also take care of the tornados. Yer Obedient Sarvint, Sirs,etc mike

-- mike in houston (mmorris67@hotmail.com), March 30, 2000.

cin,

I'm with you!!!

-- Flash (flash@flash.hq), March 30, 2000.

If there is ever anything I can do to help you or anyone here, I will gladly do it. May peace, love, and forgiveness find all of your hearts. Cin -- cin (cinlooo@aol.corn), March 30, 2000.

do ya mean it? really? really really?

if you do mean it, how about you take LL and lead her off to some distant land. A land where there are no phones, no electricity, no way for you or her to connect to this forum. and stay there.

lol

i knew you didnt mean it!

-- hmm, whatcha think bout that? (twofaced@warped.bitch), March 30, 2000.

Hmmmm: I'm surprised you had to ask the question why people are still pissed at Laura.

I wasn't asking why people are still pissed at Laura. I was asking if YOU had finally made up your mind as to why you were so upset with her. As you recall, you couldn't really figure it out and kept coming up with silly nonsense answers. It looks like you're still coming up with them. And now you've added Cin to your target list. Has she "interfered with your LIFE" also?? LOL

. . . . . . . .

-- (hmm@hmm.hmm), March 30, 2000.

P.S. Shakey, I hope your tests go well, I wish the best for you. Been there myself, was worried sick, things do work out.

Hmmm: Have not a clue what your talking about in regards to cin. I have no problem with cinloo.

-- tit-four-tat (tit-four-tat@tit-four-tat.xcom), March 30, 2000.

Shakey-- I hope the test news is good. There is an extensive and ongoing asbestos program in my little town because the glass companies used it for many years. Asbestosis is a major problem here.

On one of the threads you mentioned TPTB reopening a 50 yr. old pipeline. I must say that struck me as odd when I read it in the news also. I just hadn't connected it with manual valves.

Mike--what is going on with the water and the gasoline leak and the lake near Dallas? News of the pipeline rupture has been sparse.

-- Pam (jpjgood@penn.com), March 30, 2000.

I'll stand back to back with Chuck vs. whoever anyday.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), March 31, 2000.

tit for tat,

could you please link to the thread you referred to that has Uncle Deedah explaining why someone might still be mad at LL? (hmm, what's that paper shuffling? Do I hear a file being started on me?)

Thanks.

-- (Miss Ann@th.rope), March 31, 2000.

Shakey,

I truely hope all works out well for you.

I too shared the 'c' (dont even like to write the word) scare. Keep believing.

Chuck, I always did enjoy your conversations. I dont understand why you chose to become a sysop. But to each their own.

I will make no bones about dislking the big D (most know of whom I speak)... I didnt care for her from the 'git go' and I was there when she first began to post.

With her 'promotion' to a sysop, came her true colors...some folks you just DO NOT give power to. She was one of them.

I got sick of hearing about her 'new age bullshit' all the time, and when she attempted to 'justify' her deletes, her sarcastic, caustic lil trade marks ie *shift happens* made me want to completely go off.

I DONT want to be censored. I am welcome at ez, have a password and will not post there, EVER.

BTW, I was glad as hell when she did her infamous "leaving on a jet plane post".

Now true feelings being expressed I could give a shit less whether folks like it or not.

{{consumer who is brutally honest today))

-- consumer (shh@aol.com), March 31, 2000.

Consumer,

Do you know what the sound of a single set of hands clapping is? Now, imagine it a few times over. I think you will have what I believe quite a few of us old timers thought.

I was honest at one time... until I got slammed for it, and then she became a sysop. I learned to keep my mouth the hell shut up after I found out everybody and their brother knew who was posting from where. That is what I disagreed with more than anything. If I wanted to post anonymous, I couldn't for the fact that way to many people had the "keys" or "eyes" into the old TB to know exactly WHERE I was posting from, thus knowing exactly WHO I was. I feel more safe posting now, as more know exactly who I am (thanks to old sysops), I've let it be known to a few, and besides as far as I know, there is only one set of "eyes" on this forum besides Phil.

Oldie ... keep it up and you'll be a goldie in my books.

Donna aka Sheeple aka cannot-say

-- (Donna@here.now), March 31, 2000.

Ms. Anne, per your request:

http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002qny

I believe the thread is called "Have you ever wondered what people on this forum look like" 115 threads and was started by Laura

Scroll down a few threads and you will see the thread from Uncle Deedah to Ladyillogic.

-- tit-4-tat (tit-4-tattt@tit-4-tatt.xcom), March 31, 2000.

Unc Deedah sucks donkey dicks, so what?

-- (blue@and purple big.ones.), March 31, 2000.

And so do you.

-- :)))) (:)))@:))).xnx,com), April 01, 2000.

Mr/Ms Shakey, I hope this post will be the last, of this ( me, me me). thread. The original question, and some entertwined, asked about your current health. I personally wish you good health, no human pain, more than you can bear, be it personal or physical. I salute your postings, I deem them to be one human to another. I stand up for your character, and if your character (for which I vouch), turns out to be an untruth, Well, at least I stood for something which ringed with truth. The others, ring hollow. I Salute.

-- One Human (to@nother.com), April 01, 2000.