On Saturday, Screach and I had the misfortune of sitting in front of two blokes who were utterly offensive. One in particular was chanting dreadful racist stuff. He was obviously bevved up but wound himeslf up to such a pitch that he was abusing those around him "you're just wankas in black and white shirts" (etc), making lunges for people and the Liverpool fans in particular. Red faced and spittle producing, he was an absolute disgrace. He kept it up along Anfield Road "you're worse than f....g Celtic, you paddy c...ts". I am fairly certain that these are the same blokes as thsoe who sat next to me at the Dons game. Don't get me wrong, I'm not averse to swearing at matches etc (I mean, you aren't at the opera), but something must surely be done about people like these. What is the answer?

-- Anonymous, March 29, 2000

Answers

Only answer is to have them chucked out. The stewards should do that but it would most likely kick something off. Crowd control cameras can easily identify these people and they can be stopped from entering the ground.

PS What's wrong with swearing at the opera?

-- Anonymous, March 29, 2000

Me Dad always had an answer for these so called 'hard' men . His idea was that the British Govt should commission an Island , somewhere super remote in the north sea , and collect all the football hooligan across grounds for a year , particularly at England games . After collecting the known trouble makers off camera , take them to this Island (let them keep their chosen weapons , bottles , knives , glasses , coins etc ... the let them put on their club colours . Put an electric fence round the Island and sufficiently high voltage so that they are killed if they touch it . Then leave them to it . Surely they'd be in heaven kicking the sh*t out of each other .... or maybe not me thinks . great idea , totally impracticle , thats what fathas are for !

-- Anonymous, March 29, 2000

Not that impractical Sting. I'm sure Sky Digital would buy up the TV rights. Could be onto an earner here.

-- Anonymous, March 29, 2000

Although the stewards should chuck them out they won't, Take my seat for eg. in front of me there is a seat owned by the club for scouts etcetera, at one fa cup game a bloke in this seat was hurling abuse at a black player, he was spouting all sorts of racist trash and when told to shut his gob he just became worse, I mentioned this to a steward and what do you think happened.

NOWT at all. however when some guys had a banner stating "what price loyalty #1500 quid" and were holding it in view of the NUFC box , this same steward was up like linford and ripped the offending object to pieces.

So what are the stewards there for eh!!!

-- Anonymous, March 29, 2000

Stewards? The problem is that they vary so much from ground to ground - the Scousers seemed OK and not half as annoying as the OT ones. Toon ones expel more than at any other PL ground per game I'm told....

-- Anonymous, March 29, 2000

Dougal, that`s dreadful. It so awful for everyone else nearby. Only thing I can suggest is to lodge a complaint with the club in writing, telling them exactly where these prats were, and ask them to investigate the matter. Ask them to reply letting you know what action, if any, they are going to take.

It`s awful that the stewards don`t do their jobs properly, and that some clubs don`t take it seriously enough. Totally unacceptable behaviour - and the majority of people would agree, I`m sure.

-- Anonymous, March 29, 2000

If you report them to the club, the general area they were sitting etc then when you have the misfortune to come across them again do the same etc. Eventually someone at the club will work out exactly who they are. It wouldn't surprise me if other people have already complained about having the misfortune to be anywhere near them.

-- Anonymous, March 29, 2000

I have some chaps like this sitting 3 rows behind me. They have been reported and have all received warning letters. Problem is, shouting "Black bastard!" constitutes an obscenity in the eyes of the club so they were asked to curb their language.

-- Anonymous, March 29, 2000

My mates were at the Blackburn cup game and vacated a boozer when some Geordies started to sing that B.N.P favourite "No surrender to the I.R.A". It seem that the morons who used to sing filth on the terraces about coloured people have turned their attentions to the Irish. I always knew that those monsters had not gone away. They just keep a low profile inside the ground now because they're easier to spot and eject now it's all seated. SMB - Irish ancestry and very proud of it!

-- Anonymous, March 29, 2000

SMB,

I remember joining in the chorus of No Surrender to the IRA....one of my favourites!, you wanna run by me again exactly whats wrong with it?

I am in NO WAY anti Irish, I've lots of friends from the republic and have also lived there myself. For that song to be even remotely racist you'd be implying that the IRA are the public face of all Irish republican people?? don't make me laugh!

I also remember outside the same pub people singing REAL racist songs.......those I didn't join in with...

-- Anonymous, March 30, 2000

I think what Gav is trying to say is that the chanting outside aformentioned boozer was much more tapered toward the ethnic community of Blackburn , and those of you at Coventry this year will remember the same infantile chant . However the IRA thing was very much heard at the Rome match as well after some dick from Roma was running around with an Irish flag . I can see where evryone is coming from here , but whatever your prejudice might be , and divvent think that screaming at Ginola ' take the french b**tards legs away ' doesnt come in the same league , because it does . Some are worse than others ,and others more blatant . The real thugs are the ones who continually abuse , but i do remember having this debate before , and if you can all happily put your hands up and say 'ive never heckled abuse of origin or religion at an opposing fan or player before ' then the debate should be concentrated on the genuinely neanderthal . Sorry if you dont agree .

-- Anonymous, March 30, 2000

I honestly don`t think that the actual content of the chant, verbal abuse, whatever is really the issue, offensive as it may be to some. There is a lot of politically incorrect chanting which goes on, a great deal of it could come under the heading of `good natured banter`, and is on the whole accepted by all parties as what it is meant to be, ie. a bit of fun.

The real neanderthals will say whatever they think will cause the most trouble, draw the most attention to themselves, cause the most general offence, and make them look hardest to their thuggy mates. They don`t have the required number of braincells to be making a considered choice or to be able to validate their reasoning! These people are probably causing offence in all areas of their life, using foul language on crowded transport, making racist comments in ethnic restaurants, etc. It`s nothing to do with football or who they support - these people are simply sociopaths (is that the correct term?)

You cannot confront them - or at least I certainly wouldn`t recommend it. I feel that it is up to the Clubs to take careful note of what is going on in their grounds, and act consistently and persistently against these people. They will never go away, but hopefully they can be driven further and further away from football.

-- Anonymous, March 30, 2000

Obviously Gav, you understand as little about the Irish issue as those morons who sing that song! I include you, if indeed it is one of your favourites. Tell me what the hell the I.R.A. have to do with football? Why would anyone in their right mind want to start singing about Ireland when visiting Blackburn or anywhere else to watch Newcastle United? Oh and by the way - I notice none of you fucking "patriots" ever sing songs that are anti the murderous UDA/UVF/UFF/Red Hand Brigade etc etc ET FUCKING CETERA!

-- Anonymous, March 30, 2000

I can see that feelings are beginning to run pretty strong on this thread - and it`s moved from a general discussion on to a pretty specific one. I doubt anyone is going to be prepared to get into a serious political debate on this bbs, nor do I IMHO, think that they should. I think that this is a pretty evenhanded BBS, and in general I would say that due respect is given to other members opinions.

Am I right in saying that we all agree that extreme and offensive behaviour is unacceptable whatever the verbal content or physical action happens to be? It reflects badly on the Club, the supporters and football in general. Surely we would all be united on that?

-- Anonymous, March 30, 2000

The Irish issue has nothing to do with football. It could take over the discussion altogether if you let it. I don't pretend to know the ins & outs of the parties involved but being English and living in England we are conditioned to resent the IRA just as we were with Germany it is something that will not disappear overnight. If anyone disagrees they can volunteer they opinion but I would hope that it doesn't deteriorate into a foul-mouthed slagging match, I'm no prude but I would like to think that this place deserves better.

-- Anonymous, March 30, 2000

Quite right Galaxy and Tony. First of all I unreservedly apologise for my use of bad language. I was SO angry I couldn't help myself but should have taken a deep breath and come back to it later. Believe me, I am sick and tired of the "Irish question" and this is certainly not the place to be discussing it. It was mentioned though, that someone at the Liverpool game had been spouting off at the Scousers about being Irish etc and I felt it would be a worthy contribution to make, to mention those people at Blackburn. Once more I ask, what do the I.R.A. have to do with football? Why would anyone sing such a song? Was it because a local had a Celtic shirt on? Everyone knows that all Celtic fans are card carrying members of the I.R.A. of course! It's pathetic in the extreme. As someone with Irish roots I find the whole "Ingerland/BNP crowd" offensive beyond description and if Geordies want to subscribe to their way of supporting a team, then they have serious maturity problems. Don't forget to slag off the "Loyalist" murderers next time either.

-- Anonymous, March 31, 2000

To SMB - I don`t think for one minute that you will have offended anyone, certainly not me.

As far as your question `what has the IRA got to do with football`, well, of course, I can`t see that it has anything whatsoever to do with football. I truly believe that the majority of the people who sing the stupid song might as well be singing `no surrender to the Inland Revenue`, or `no surrender to the NEC` for all the thought they give it!

I can only speak for myself, but I wouldn`t try and foist my own personal politics, religion, opinions etc. on anyone. I can understand why you are sensitive about, you obviously know more about the problem than most. My earlier postings were in no way meant to be a reprimand to you, I was just trying to pull the discussion back into more general terms. :o)

-- Anonymous, March 31, 2000

Wow, very touchy debate!

I feel your original point was well made SMB. However, I tend to agree with Galaxy's view that these morons will turn their attention to any minority, or indeed nationality, that they feel they can wind up without fear of recrimination.

Their intelligence doesn't extend to spending one nano-second caring about or trying to understand the background of what for the want of a better description, I will describe as the Irish issue. They certainly realise they are causing offence, because that is all they are really interested in, but the issue over which they are causing offence is of no material interest to them whatsoever.

As Galaxy said, this mindless vocal cruelty and extreme insensitivity has nothing to do with football. Unfortunately these morons are attracted to football as a vehicle for their abuse of any and all minorities, and therefore they do indeed represent a problem for football.

Let's try to direct our venom towards the mindless exponents of all manifestations of such hatred, rather than against each other. Surely as a enlightened community we can avoid falling into that trap?

-- Anonymous, March 31, 2000

Well said Clarky.

-- Anonymous, April 01, 2000