Will the A.M.E. Church Elect A Female Bishop in 2000greenspun.com : LUSENET : A.M.E. Today Discussion : One Thread
The poll now has ended, the vote is in, 106 to 48, users of A.M.E. Today believe the African Methodist Episcopal Church will elect a female Bishop this year. Many of the comments that were left along with the poll were stinging.
Although the poll has ended, the discussion can continue on here.
-- Anonymous, March 13, 2000
It God hadn't wanted a woman to rise to the position of Bishop He wouldn't have allowed them to enter the ministry. We have a tendency to forget that God has His own agenda. Women are as much a part of this Christian race as men. Only antiquated thinking feels that women have "a place" in this scheme of things. Women have been used by God for one reason or another for generations. God is not a sexist or chauvinist. He is for all. Instead of bickering who will carry the Word, the concern should be to carry the Word. The Word of God is sweet no matter whose mouth it comes from. Jesus had no problem with women. Thank God for God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, the Holy Trinity who have no respect of gender.
-- Anonymous, March 13, 2000
Regrettably, I did not take part in the "straw poll" so let me provide my belated 2 cents on this important question. I would be quite surprised if a woman was elected Bishop at the 2000 General COnference. Ironically, the primary opposition is not necessarily men but women who would oppose a female candidate. If elections were based purely on gender women candidates would win easily since our sisters outnumber we brotheres by a 4-1 ratio in AME Churches. Much like the uphill NY Senatorial fight by Hiliary Clinton, female bishop candiates must also reassure women voters that they are indistinguishable from their male colleagues. The reality is that with only 2 openings in 2000 this limited field will only hurt Vashti McKenzie. Now, 2004 looks better since 8 Bishops will have to be replaced. Also, there is the Biblical issue where Paul's teachings stronlgy emphasize that only men should hold the office of a Bishop. A savvy hermeneutic is required to explain to lay persons how women can be included in this office when Scripture speaks with an unambiguous voice in this particular matter. If we uphold the Holy Writ as the inerrant Word of God then we better come equipped with an easily understood exegesis or else our spiritual credibility becomes suspect.
-- Anonymous, March 14, 2000
Peter quoted the prophet Joel in Acts 2:17, "God said in the last days he would pour out his spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy. Women are more intelligent than donkeys; did not God use a donkey to get a message across. We need save, sanctified and Holy Ghost filled people in leadership. It is time out for playing church. I have witnessed a lot of playing and God is not pleased. If God only use men, does that mean God only love men and only men can be saved. I think not. Our prayer should be that God give us leaders with a love for God and God's people and if those leaders happen to be female, then to God be the Glory!
-- Anonymous, March 19, 2000
YES! The LORD has heard the cries of God's people. The A.M.E. Church will elect her first female Bishop in 2000 on the first ballot. The time is now! God has called Rev. Vashti McKenzie for such a time as this. To God Be the Glory.
-- Anonymous, March 22, 2000
If electing a female bishop is of God, the efforts of man will not stop it. If I had to venture an opinion--I would say that God has not been involved in our selection of bishops for many General Conferences; we campaign so much that He does not have space. I'd like to see us not elect any bishops in 2000 and 2004. This would serve to reduce the bench of bishops to a size consistent to the reduction in AME membership during the past 50 or more years. Then in 2008, elect bishops baqsed on the GROWTH in membership--No Growth No Bishops. A prerequsite to election to the office should be demonstration of fruit.
-- Anonymous, April 03, 2000
Parson Paris, I couldn't agree more with your bishop proposal which links appointments with growth. Spiritual productivity which can be unambiguously measured should indeed be the yardstick for determining these positions. Would you allow for new bishops even in the event of old age, death, sickness or other forms of attrition?
-- Anonymous, April 04, 2000
Yes,I think its by time a new gender of Bishop leadership comes into being.God created us all equally,why should a female with superp qualities feel inferior towards a male?Its by time a female becomes the Bishop. Danielle-Kirsty Daniels Elizabeth Chapel AMEC,Lansdowne,Cape Town,South Africa God Bless!
-- Anonymous, April 08, 2000
Yes,I think its by time a new gender of Bishop leadership comes into being.God created us all equally,why should a female with superp qualities feel inferior towards a male?Its by time a female becomes the Bishop. Danielle-Kirsty Daniels Elizabeth Chapel AMEC,Lansdowne,Cape Town,South Africa God Bless! 15 Episcopal District
-- Anonymous, April 08, 2000
To Whom It Concern:
At this tome I'm attending ITC Seminary. There are some outstanding women seminarians who one day will make outstanding Bishops. I don't believe God has any hang-ups on genders. When God called females into the ministry he had to call them also to be Bishops. If God could use man who shot dope for seventeen years to do streetv evangelism, he can call a women to become a Bishop.
-- Anonymous, May 04, 2000
More germaine than the gender of our next bishop are the holiness and skill of our next bishop. The Christian Recorder reports 33 candidates for the Episcopacy. According to the Discipline, we are electing 2. One would think that with so many candidates and so few slots, we should have the ability to pick the very finest.
How shall we, the people at large, and the delegates chosen to represent us discern these key ingredients? I believe there needs to be some method for describing the candidates in a uniform, impartial way. It's very difficult for any one delegate to know all 33 candidates intimately. Ceertainly the better funded candidates have spent the quadrennium touring the key meetings, establishing "face time", and getting name recognition. But does this mean that we should ignore the fine qualities of candidates with smaller treasuries?
It seems sometimes that GenCon brings out some of the more carnal side of our candidates at a time when we need to see their holiness, their humility, their love for the Lord and for the people of God. Is the office of bishop so seductive that it induces men and women to forgo these things?
It is my prayer that while we examine qualifications, records, policies and promises, we do not forget the key ingredients to true episcopal success: Holiness and a Love for the Lord.
-- Anonymous, May 04, 2000
We should have elected a female Bishop a long time ago. Let's face the facts, if the women were to leave the AME Church the Church would have to close down. The sooner women realize how much power they have and start to use it the better off they will be.
-- Anonymous, May 05, 2000
I will be very much surprised if a woman is elected bishop during gen conf 2000. As noted in a prev. response, there are only 2 positions available and a large field of candidates - some of which have already run before. I've heard through the "grapevine" that Pastor McKenzie was "promised" election this year (don't know by whom or how), but I still don't expect it.
Perhaps in 2004 - eight bishops will retire, but that does not necessarily mean 8 will be elected. If the gen conf decides to downsize and combine some districts, there will be fewer spots available.
Finally, I'm really concerned how many of our male dominated clergy will willingly and non-grudingly serve (submit) to the authority of a female bishop. In the 3rd District, women can hardly get appointed to major congregations and I don't believe we've ever had even a female presiding elder!
Talk is cheap and easy; it's what happens in the voting booth that counts. LC
-- Anonymous, May 27, 2000
Why must the A.M.E.C. continue to advocate oppressive behavior? Have we forgotten where the Lord has brought us from? Whether it's oppression of race, socio-economic status, religious colonialism in Africa with American born Bishops, or gender specific advocacy regarding the election of Bishops - IT IS WRONG and certainly not Christian-like! If we can not start with electing, at least, one female Bishop, in 2000, then we are no better than slave masters. Let Freedom Reign!
-- Anonymous, May 30, 2000
Women don't belong in the pulpit? Let them stay where they are?!!! Just where are we? This statement reeks of oppression! Just reading it stabbed my heart. Are we good enough to support the A.M.E. church and not be leaders in it? It's not enough that we are oppressed in the word but we have to be oppressed in the body of Christ also? I believe the last WILL BE MADE FIRST and that a change is going to come. I wish everyone running for Bishop (male or female) the best. God Bless and let's pray for one another that God may soften our hardened hearts.
-- Anonymous, June 03, 2000
I believe that a woman should be elected Bishop, but first we must make our men equal to our women in all of the church. A women can serve any office in our church at any level by church law (discipline), but by the same discipline a man can not serve as president or the head of the Women's Missionary Society. In fact the name Women's Missionary Society indicates segregation. I don't know of any "Man's ????" named organization in the A.M.E. Church. Yes, let's elect a woman bishop in 2000, but first let's remove "Woman" and all forms of discrimination from our disciplene. Let's do both in 2000.
-- Anonymous, June 10, 2000
Pastor Gray's poignant comments about the Womens' Missionary Society warrant serious reconsideration about how we as AMEs approach the issue of gender. Missionary societies should not bar men from holding any office. If we exclude women from the pulpit while simultaneously ecxclude men from the presidency of WMS this is prima facie evidence of "reverse gender discrimination". Can't have it both ways. When Jesus promulgated the Great Commission in St. Matthew 28:19-20 he did not include a gender-specific clause in the missionary job description. Pastor Gray, many thanks for pointing out this existing inconsistency. By the way, I thought the UNCF CEO William Gray III pastored the esteemed Bright Hope Baptist Church in my wife's hometown of Philadelphia, PA.
-- Anonymous, June 10, 2000
No, this William A. Gray III pastors the St. Stephen A.M.E. Church in Baltimore (Essex), Maryland.
-- Anonymous, June 12, 2000
I am honest and frank in saying that what we need at the GC2000 is not a another gender. To me what we really need is dignity, honesty, humility and spirituality. I have not attended any GC in my life, but I am always inspired by Bishop Adams' closing sermons on leadership in the Church. Our bishopric elections make a mockery for every value we stand for. We need repentance from our attachment to worldly things. In my short span in the ministry I am convinced that many ) not all) of our bishops should not have been elected in the 1st place. It is the money power and manipulation by clicks in the Council of Bishops that is promoting moral bankruptcy in this Zion. It is midnight in the AME Church if we still are to fight about whether to elect women or not. Let us elect persons on merit. God bless
-- Anonymous, June 21, 2000
Your commentary about the state of moral bankruptcy in the AMEC organization is razor sharp in tone and substance. After reading your posts on this and other threads I'm pursuaded that perhaps a moratorium on electing bishops is the right way to go so that the issue about connectional finances can be properly addressed. The call [demand?]for a woman bishop simply based on gender appears to me unconvincing in the absence of honesty and integrity. Thanks for your contributions.
-- Anonymous, June 21, 2000
Yes! It is surely time to elect a female Bishop in the African Methodist Episcopal Church. We must live out the mandate of of Richard Allen that all people be free from slavery and oppression. We teach a liberation theology and practice oppression. Rev. Dr. Vashti is surely a capable candidate for Episcopal service in the AME Church. We should vote for her not because she is woman but because she is a qualified candidate who has earned the right to serve the church in a higher office. Pastor McKenzie is Christ Centered, dedicated, gifted,commited and faithful. Her record speaks for it self she has done the work and deserves the opportunity. Let us in the year 2000 set the standared and practice what we preach in the AME Church. Yes, I agree with Pastor William Gray,III, let us eliminate segragation in all areas of the church. Why not a man as head of WMS? It is also time for us to look at all areas of the church and allow God to move through deserving persons who are God focused and Christ Centered and vote them into higher positions of service in our church.It is time out for oppresion and it is surely time for equality and liberation for such a time as this.
Rev. Bess McCallister, Pastor Holy Trinity AME Church
-- Anonymous, June 29, 2000
the A.M. E. church should have had a female bishop long long ago; it is time that we move into the 20th-even though we are on the verge of the 21st century, we still in the 19th century in some of our actions. I am a member of the A.M.E. Church and a member of the Ohio Annual Conference of the church. Let use elect a female bishop at this time,thereby showing others that we believe that women can do as well or -in many instances-better than men. Let God lead us
-- Anonymous, July 06, 2000
No, but we certainly will in 2004. There is too much political activity in our Zion. Women or a woman should have been elected before now but circumstances have prevented it. we have no shortage of women who are quite capable of becoming Bishops and will represent us well. Intergrity is everything. if delegates had a free vote, woman would be elected in 2000.
-- Anonymous, July 06, 2000
How's it going? Everyone is learning that the ones that works the hardest, ie. the MERIT people are the ones that should be elected for the various Bishop positions.
It doesn't matter whether you are a male or a female.
Folks in communities where they go to church have the RIGHT to chose their Priests, etc.
No one needs a bishop, etc. elected with a corrupt system.
Have you all read the paoweb, Ashtar command and the Nirubiancouncil computer websites in the U.S.A., etc.
It doesn't matter where you come from, what you look like, what matters is do you protect the Childrens, environment, etc.
Folks are learning about and reading the Electric Universe...a version of how the Solar System came here. The truth is we live in an artifical Solar System.
There are a lot of Priests, etc. that can land here to live on the Earth from other planets to be folk's next door neighbors, etc. but the laws and liars like Clinton are the problem.
I have Air Force weather documentation that proves the Air Force, etc. has been manipulating the weather to win the wars. Have you all read about Nikola Telsa in the 1800(s) that had the tower at Long Island that shot the lightning bolt to the North? That was the beginning of artifical weather. The simple explaination for artifical weather on the Earth that is responsible for cities running out of water, most of the earthquakes, volcanoes, hurricanes, tornadoes, flooding, droughts (no rain), etc. is a mixture of Telsa Tower substitutes, Scalar Technology and satellites. Folks landed on the Earth like Environmentalists and Police Officers to give Telsa the knowledge so we would like in a clean world and have cars, motorcycles, etc. that would fly thru the skies and didn't cause a lot of pollution. For more info about the history of Flying Cars look at the November 1999 issue of the Heavy Metal magazine. There is an article about a Flying Police Cruiser, etc.
I have a device I built for about $1500 and research costs. It took me about 1 1/2 years of research to build a machine proven to make rain.
About 6 and 4 weeks ago I made some changes and i started reading reports about folks thankful for the rains that provide relief from the droughts, etc. The area that the device affects is about 100 miles in diameter. Because the Air force, etc. added more satellites and radar in the middle of the U.S.A....the device affects the entire Earth and folks are getting rain in a lot of places.
Since 1998 I've sent at least 500 e-mail letters accross the Earth to the United Nations Desertification Council, Nobel Scientists, Teachers, Scientists, School children, Environmental groups, etc.
Government agents have been sabotaging the computers from places in town where they are living. Computer viruses are also sent fom places in the U.S.A. to the computers here stealing my letters to the peoples of the Earth.
I read about a Journalist that got an award of $5,000 from the Desertification Committee. I sent e-mail letters to Africa so folks could come here to see me, get copies of the documentation I have, see the device I built...the Crystal Projector.
The Crystal Projector is a prototype. There is only one on the Earth!
The Police here in town were given $100 worth of docunentation last year. I explained to them about artifical weather and a lot of the Police Officers here have been in the house where I live and have seen the documentation, the Crystal Projector, etc.
At the hungersite you can read like I did here that every 3.6 seconds someone dies on the Earth. 75% of those people are children. People that don't have rain because of droughts needed for weapon systems like plastic Army antennaes that don't work too good when wet are being MURDERED!
Most of the Police in town here are guilty of at least the premediated aiding and abetting of premediated murders of at least millions of people accross the Earth. The same is true for the government agents, etc. that stole my letters to the peoples of the Earth.
If I'm not at home, please leave a note. There is a motel around the corner from where I live. There is a small airport in town that can handle a small Lear jet.
In Joplin, Missouri..about an hour's drive by car...there are rental cars.
I had 3 University students come to where I live with a video camera and are working on a documentary. One of the Students was a Negroe gentleman. Perhaps he would have rather been called by his first name. They were busy and didn't have much time to spend for filming the documentary. There is a problem with RACISTS on the Police force here. I recommended that the NAACP be contacted to come here for documentation, etc.
I spoke to a retired lady that's getting strange phone calls that according to caller-id...the telephone calling her is disconnected. It's murderers like government agents, etc. I recommended that she talk to the Grey Panthers...an association of retired folks to come here for documentation, etc.
I spoke to some farmers here. I recommended they talk to the Farmers of America and come here for documentation, etc.
Ralph Nader and a lady are running for President and Vice President. I sent Ralph Nader a registered letter with copies of the Air Force weather modification documentation.
Those that like using artifical weather on the Earth are Taxpayer Employees. Folks don't have homes because of the employees using devices to cause tornadoes, etc.
One of the things that is going to happen is all those that like artifical weather are going to have honest lie detector tests, public trials and Execution. The trials shouln't take more than a week. The executions ...no more than a day. Then everything the executed person owns...their houses, money, etc. can be given to those that don't have home because of tornadoes, etc.
Hellfire and Damnation, saith the Lord!
Have a good week. best, James Wolff (James W) 1005 W. 3rd. Street Pittsburg, Kansas
-- Anonymous, July 11, 2000
Hallelujah!!!!!!!!!!!!! We women preachers must continue to do what "thus saith the Lord"! in simple words, i agree with Vashti being Bishop. God bless her.
-- Anonymous, July 12, 2000
A sign of a woman Bishop shows God's displeasure with a people not obeying authority. Men have failed. Women especially in the Ministry are isolating themselves in competing for headship instead of honoring leadership reserved for men; whereas they should be strengthening society as examples for doing things in order.
THUS WE HAVE DISHONOR. SEE ISAIAH 3:12 ALSO ISAIAH 3:5
IT'S PURIFYING JUDGMENT REF. HOLMAN BIBLE HANDBOOK
EVANGELIST OLA KITCHEN ROBINSON
-- Anonymous, July 14, 2000
I am not a member of the A.M.E. Church, bbut of the A.M.E.Zion Church. I have mixed feeings concerning this issue.
-- Anonymous, July 14, 2000
I AM WHO I AM, MY WORD WILL NEVER CHANGE OR LEAVE YOU. IF PART'S OF THE BIBLE CAN'T BE HELD AS HIS WORD LET'S CLOSE THE BOOK. GOD'S ORDER IS GOD'S ORDER, WE CHANGE IT AND MAKE RULES AS WE GO; NOT GOD. HE GAVE US FREE WILL AND THAT FREE WILL IS DESTROYING AMERICA. THE FOUNDATION OF AMERICA, OUR FAMILIES, AND OUR CHURCH SHOULD BE BUILT ON OUR FAITH IN HIS WORD; NOT ON HOW WE FEEL OR THINK THINGS SHOULD CHANGE. WE NEED TO RESTORE THE ORDER NOT CHANGE GOD'S ORDER. MAY GOD BE WITH US TO CORRECT OUR SIN.
-- Anonymous, July 15, 2000
The reason things are bad are because there is no free will or thought it is sent to us by the news and the government. What happened in the news today. Well mostly is a lie. Wake up. Who benifits from the bad things that are occuring. The only one is the soon to be world government with there microchiped population. The mark of the beast. Every prophecy that happens is because it was planned that way. If I say at 12 I will walk over to the refrigerator and get something and then at 12 I do cause I planned it, Is this prophecy? No it is planned. It's time to open your eyes and see open your ears to hear. You shut them when you take everything litteraly and don't think it could be different. Well it can be much different much better and not a single trigger has to be pulled its just a thought process away. Are you ready to think for yourself? The less you know about something the more you are sure about it. The more you know about something the less sure you are about it. Wake up world your slumber is over and it's been Hell. Time to make it Heaven for once and for all thank you very much may God bless you what ever you choose to believe.
-- Anonymous, July 22, 2002