Anyone notice that theres no women posting regularly (at all?) on this board? Maybe its the pictures of women here. I mean, can you imagine doing anything fun with them, like diving in the mosh pit, or having a tequila shot competition? Heck, I cant even imagine hanging out and making phony phone calls with any of them.

The photos here are something like 50s meet 70s, but it sure isnt the double-zeros. Either you guys or your cameras are lost in the past.

And dont tell me its fashion, because I dont see enough clothes on any of them to comment about fashion. I just see cheese-art-cake.

So heres one for those of us that enjoy women with attitude, who want to have fun, and look like something other than a kewpie doll. Yeah, I broke all the rules, but its difficult because I couldnt find my cheat sheet when I was out and about with the camera.

-- Jeff Spirer (jeffs@hyperreal.org), March 08, 2000

Answers

Looks like a picture I'd find gracing the latest issue of Giant Robot, on 20-something first generation asians who grind about the city in dead end jobs hating their parents. "Hi, my name is xxx, and my parents can't relate."

Good use of a (20? 24?) and good framing with the stairs. Great sky. Without any fill flash, you were quite lucky to get ok exposure with sky and face (or maybe that's the effect you wanted :)

Dig it.

Is this what people a "strong composition"? What does the term "strong composition" mean, anyways?

-- Edward Kang (ekang@cse.nd.edu), March 08, 2000.

Terrific photograph - but people pay a lot more for fantasy than reality.

-- John Kantor (jkantor@mindspring.com), March 08, 2000.

Somehow I don't think Jeff's motivation for making this (and most of his images) is how much money someone might pay as a result.

There is one flaw in the critique he offers, that 50's/70/s is dated... "retro" styling seems pretty close to the top of the styles in demand these days, but not the type of vacuous Pop Photography cheesecake stuff that Jeff refers to. I've got no problem with that stuff going on here, I'll tolerate it but c'mon, can we show something beyond baby pictures and models' head shots? Some Bunny Yeager style stuff with a millenium twist would be more interesting. (Oxygen Channel anyone?)

I just downloaded a new driver for my antique scanner so I'll bring something to the table (as a "put up or shut up" neutralizer) as soon as I can figure it out... t

p.s. Jeff, these days fashion sells the sizzle not the steak (retro is as retro does) so don't expect clothes to be prominant. What is being offered as fashion photography here is headshots and models porfolio (product of a "testing" collaboration between photog and model). Edward Kang's recommended site was all runway stuff, the documentary side of the fashion industry's image production. I don't work in fashion, so I've got nothing to offer (image wise) but an opinion, and there's plenty of room for criticism of me because of that. That's what makes a discussion fun... t

-- tom meyer (twm@mindspring.com), March 08, 2000.

Unfortunately, cameras and film cost money, so my first priority is making a living in a new career. Afterwards, I'll indulge wilder impulses.

And Jeff, did you think of letting her use the camera? (And then posting her pics?)

-- John Kantor (jkantor@mindspring.com), March 08, 2000.

We share that concern, John ... I have often asked a (humnan) subject of a photo session to make a portrait of me and volunteer to pose in anyway they might like. Some interesting things have occurred, and some bad and out of focus things as well... t

-- tom meyer (twm@mindspring.com), March 08, 2000.

So here's a few of my comments on some of the things that came up.

John said: people pay a lot more for fantasy than reality.

Well that's true, but aren't there a variety of fantasies? Ellen von Unwerth has incredibly erotic photographs that are radically different than what is shown on most web boards.

Tom said: Somehow I don't think Jeff's motivation for making this (and most of his images) is how much money someone might pay as a result.

Well Tom is right. I'm thinking of legally changing my last name to Meatyard so expectations are properly set. (Tom will certainly understand this.)

Tom said (stuff about retro)

Tom is, as usual, corret on this, but I was thinking about what is missing - a more hard-edged, personality driven view of women that is out there right now. Check out Vibe, Details, etc. etc. Or von Unwerth.

John said did you think of letting her use the camera?

Not with my Mamiya 7 and 43mm lens. When I hand people the cameras I use, all of which are rangefinders, the first thing they do is stick their finger into the front of the viewfinder window. Yuck. On the other hand, it is a good idea.

Peter brings up my comment about "kewpie doll" in his posting. Well I went and looked up what "kewpie" means and I see that I used it long wrong. From Merriam-Webster (www.m-w.com), used for a small chubby doll with a topknot of hair. So far, I haven't seen this here, but someone please photograph a woman as a kewpie doll.

But what I was getting at was woman as photographic object, without any personality, character, or context. Now I'm not objecting to woman as object, but it seems to be a prevalent viewpoint here. And there don't seem to be any woman posters, which makes me wonder.

-- Jeff Spirer (jeffs@hyperreal.org), March 08, 2000.

I've started inviting them... t

-- tom meyer (twm@mindspring.com), March 09, 2000.

>And Jeff, did you think of letting her use the camera? (And then >posting her pics?) >-- John Kantor Interesting, even though I am just starting, I always let the subject use the last frame on the roll to shoot me. They always seem to get a real kick out of it. I only have 1 in focus so far, but I'm sure a few good ones will eventually "develop" ..ohhhh.. bad one I know.


-- J.R. Farrar (jeeperz@home.com), March 09, 2000.

As a matter of fact Ellen Von Unwerth is one of my favorite fashion photographers (along with Helmut Newton). So far, I have found that fashion photography is 90% based on the rapport between the photographer and model - and the rapport she has with her models seems to be extraordinary. I also think her work illustrates a fundamental difference in both the way female photographers see and that models react when working with them.

What I like about fashion photography is precisely the fact that it is iconic (hence also my like for Newton). Everyone involved (me, the model, the makeup artist, etc.) know that we are creating a fantasy image that comes from the collaboration of our efforts. In the online magazine that I'm working on, I plan to use a number of techniques (including behind-the-scenes shots) to help deconstruct that image, but not negate it.

-- John Kantor (jkantor@mindspring.com), March 09, 2000.

great Jeff, but it doesn't surprise me, I like all your stuff..

-- Trib (linhof6@hotmail.com), March 10, 2000.